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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Is the firing order for the 106 Freedom engine that same as Harleys? Besides the 4 valve heads and different cam timing trying to get a wrap on the sound or the 'lope' of the 106 is so even sounding. I have looked in the service manuel and did searches but cannot find the answers. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | ...HD's lope is on purpose. If they didn't keep the outdated concept it would sound like the rest. That is what I understand what folks pay for. If I'm wromg, oh well. |
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lakeside,ca | I could be wrong but think its 1 - 2  |
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Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | The single crank pin is the main contributor to the "Harley Sound" from HowStuff Works:
In a two-cylinder, horizontally opposed engine ( think BMW boxer), the pistons are timed so that one fires on one revolution of the crankshaft and the other fires on the next revolution -- so one of the two pistons fires on every revolution of the crankshaft. This seems logical and gives the engine a balanced feeling. To create this type of engine, the crankshaft has two separate pins for the connecting rods from the pistons. The pins are 180 degrees apart from one another.
A Harley engine has two pistons. The difference in the Harley engine is that the crankshaft has only one pin, and both pistons connect to it. This design, combined with the V arrangement of the cylinders, means that the pistons cannot fire at even intervals. Instead of one piston firing every 360 degrees, a Harley engine goes like this:
-A piston fires.
-The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
-There is a 405-degree gap.
-A piston fires.
-The next piston fires at 315 degrees.
-There is a 405-degree gap.
For a good visual check out the different engines at
http://www.animatedpiston.com/
Edited by ByteN2it 2010-08-03 9:49 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Yeah 1-2 .. what else could it be? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | 2 - 1, maybe? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | LOL |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 669
Peachtree City, GA | You can get a nice lope sound by lowering the idle - AT THE EXPENSE of the oil pressure. But then your damaging parts!
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | When I look at the display of the engine in the free download service manuel it looks as if there is only one crank pin. So I guess the question should have been at what degrees do the pistons fire. I understand the harley is designed pretty much as single cylinder with a 'helper' piston.
1-2 or 2-1 is pretty funny though, I deserved that. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | The Vision firing order is very similar to Harleys. Both engines employ single crankpins, the difference is the Harley uses male/female big end rods with a three piece crankshaft and the cylinders are inline. The freedom 106 uses a one piece crankshaft with open end bolt cap big end rods that are side by side and the cylinders are offset a small amount. The only real difference in the firing order is the different degrees that the cylinders are set at. the HD is 45 and the Victory engine is 50 degrees.
Edited by XRsteve 2010-08-03 5:59 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | HD fires at 315 then 360 degrees on the same stroke. Vic fires at 410 degrees with each cyl firing every other stroke. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Is the way the HD engine runs part of the vibration? O.o When one pulls up to me and I look at their mirrors I get dizzy.... |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | OK let me get this straight. If both cyl fire at 410 degrees on differnt strokes are both pistons at TDC at 410 degrees or thereabouts? That would make the con rods the same length or are the con rods or cylinders different heights?
There is very little published about the design details thats why all the questions.
Edited by wroman 2010-08-04 9:29 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 26
North East Oregon | 410?..... last time I checked there is only 360 in a circle.........
Edited by johnedoe 2010-08-04 9:57 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | It takes two trips around for each cylinder to fire/exhaust - 720. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 271
Belding Michigan | Lets go back to 1-2 everything else makes my head hurt.
Archie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | RedRider - 2010-08-04 6:05 AM
Is the way the HD engine runs part of the vibration? O.o When one pulls up to me and I look at their mirrors I get dizzy....
Vic motors have vibration too, but they are on good mounts. hold your hand on the cheesewedge when it is running and see if it doesn't tingle some. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | I know about the start button and throttle! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | The Freedom motor has a counter balance weight that dampens some of the vibration of the V-Twin. Some of the Harley motors are also counter balanced, but some are not. The firing order is just awsome, there are just not a lot of words that can describe it! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | johnedoe - 2010-08-04 10:56 AM
410?..... last time I checked there is only 360 in a circle.........
360+50 |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Let me get this straight. A four stroke engine has a 720 degree full cycle, the amont of crankshaft rotation for the intake, compression, power and exhaust strokes. ( it dosen't matter how many cylinders ) OK that being said, lets say our Victory engine begins it's cycle at the ignition of cylinder #1. Then 410 degress later cylinder #2 fires off. So, the next firing of the #1 cylinder would be at the end of the cycle therefore the firing is 0-410-720. 720 alternatively being labeled zero again. Therefore the engine firing is a little off balance. The first cylinder fires off then number two fires 410 degrees later then number one again 310 degrees later, not as unbalanced as a Harley, but not as balanced as say a Ducati. But this is also why an un-corked Vision sounds so good.............
Edited by XRsteve 2010-08-05 8:44 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 492
Indianapolis, IN | XRsteve - 2010-08-05 9:42 AM Let me get this straight. A four stroke engine has a 720 degree full cycle, the amont of crankshaft rotation for the intake, compression, power and exhaust strokes. ( it dosen't matter how many cylinders ) OK that being said, lets say our Victory engine begins it's cycle at the ignition of cylinder #1. Then 410 degress later cylinder #2 fires off. So, the next firing of the #1 cylinder would be at the end of the cycle therefore the firing is 0-410-720. 720 alternatively being labeled zero again. Therefore the engine firing is a little off balance. The first cylinder fires off then number two fires 410 degrees later then number one again 310 degrees later, not as unbalanced as a Harley, but not as balanced as say a Ducati. But this is also why an un-corked Vision sounds so good............. This isn't exact, but kinda like this?!  |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Except that evo harley is running backwards. the flywheel should be spinning forward, haha................. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | kevinx - 2010-08-04 7:40 PM
johnedoe - 2010-08-04 10:56 AM
410?..... last time I checked there is only 360 in a circle.........
360+50
dumb question. is this why my motor will sound like it comes to a dead stop for a split second, but keeps running? It's hard to describe but I've had this happen about 10 times during ownership and happens when the motor is good and hot, and it is in that mode of loading when in stop and go traffic. I'll hit the throttle, the motor feels like slams, like both pistons are firing at the same time, then keeps running. I hope I've described this good enough and KevinX or someone can give some insight what actually is taking place. |
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What is firing order?