Now that Crawford has designed the great logo, I'd like to have some custom (reflective) stickers made up for helmets, rear windows, etc.  Pollolittle's wife can make custom patches and it would be nice for the stickers and patches to have the same look. 

Informal poll about the shape:  Square, round, oval, other (specify). 

Po, I had a funny feeling about mentioning your wife because I noticed that you always said you had the machine. My bad, sorry.

Crawford, you are freaking me out. You started out by absolutely nailing the logo concept that I had in my head. (I showed it off to the guys at my dealership yesterday and the were amazed at how professional it looked.) Last night I got online and found a sticker/decal company that makes reflective products for first responders (firefighters/cops/EMT's). They also do custom work. I e-mailed them a copy of the original Vision Pilot logo with the black background and told them that the shape had not really been finalized yet. I then asked if they could make reflective decals on a clear background, that way I didn't need to worry about a shape around the logo. (Pololittle will need it to make a patch.) I sent off the e-mail with the logo and went back to Vision-Riders. I caught up on the forums and just happened to scroll down to the bottom of the home page. BAM! There was the logo (tweaked) with no background! I couldn't believe it. The small change to the black/gray V was subtle but a dead-on match to the tail light.

I'm going to think out loud and make one more request. When I order the stickers, I would really like to have two sets made up. One would be VISION PILOT, the other would say VISION COPILOT. These could be used for more than just helmets while riding. I see one in the truck rear window and the other on the minivan/SUV. (You're not gonna get me to say which one goes where!) I could get the decal company to change it but since you have the font set up, I'd like it to be an exact match.

If I can get the stickers on a clear background, the logo will be about 2" wide and 2 1/2" tall. If they can't go clear, the logo itself will be smaller in order to fit the whole sticker within that size limit. An oval shape might be 2" X 3". Round/square - 2".

I want to make one thing clear about the stickers. They will not be for sale. I am not competing with anything Vision-Riders comes up with. This is my personal little journey and I will be giving them out to anyone that wants to go along for the ride. Stickers are cheap. Pololittle's patches will cost bucks and he will come up with prices when he gets everything dialed in.

I didn't see anything on the decal website about clings. If they make them, I will look into ordering those also.

Thanks to Miles and JAM for letting me pursue this on their ticket. Crawford - unbelievable, really. Po - Put me down for the 2nd patch, right after Crawford's. (I'll be using the updated logo for the decals.)

I'm kind of at a loss as far as the legalities go. I understand that the pilot logo has some similarities with the Victory logo. I thought we would want a tie-in to the parent company. The reason there are two distinct "V"'s is because the red one represents Victory and the black/gray one is the Vision taillight. I'm sure the shape of the taillight is proprietary along with the split V at the front of the seat plus a bunch of other stuff on the bike I can't even imagine. Both logo's have gold wings but are the feathers proprietary? The pilot wings are cocked up and from a distance they resemble the shape of the saddlebags when viewed from the rear. The three colors of the bike are probably proprietary. Where's the line?

It is an unbelievably classy logo that does not shy away from the fact that it's roots are in Victory. I personally have done everything I can think of to prove to Victory, Vision-Riders (and anyone else who might care) that I have no intentions of making one penny off of the pilot logo. It was a grassroots idea that is literally less than one week old. If you combine the original post plus this one, there have been over 1000 hits/60 responses in 5 days. It has struck a popular nerve to an extent that I never dreamed.

If Victory wants us to cease and desist, we can pull the plug on this whole thing in a matter of seconds. I have no desire to try and come up with a VISION PILOT logo that is not allowed to resemble anything that might have to do with Victory or the Vision. I respect proprietary rights and honestly don't want to hack anyone off at the mothership. I think it would be fantastic for Victory to take ownership of the pilot logo and run with it. Crawford is an amazing talent and I personally think his name should be plastered in The Victory magazine and on the website for his efforts.

This has nothing to do with the reply by Flint350 showing the two logo's side-by-side. The issue has been lurking in the background since the day the pilot logo was conceived. I'm as naive as they come when it comes to legal hoop-jumping but if we want to play the game,we need to follow the rules. The stickers are on hold until I get word from Victory one way or the other. As we all know, this may take awhile. (Crawford doesn't get his Vision until April anyway.)

If any of you long-time Victory insiders have a point of contact at Victory that I can contact to start the ball rolling, I would appreciate it. I suck at this kind of stuff.

While we're waiting to hear back from Polaris, here are my thoughts on the oval. badnvegas had an excellent idea for using it as a benchmark for certain milestones. There is room on either side of the wings for numbers and rockers (or other symbols) that represent significant milestones. Big Vic was the first one to suggest dropping the "S" to get away from the group concept. Great call.

I am confident that this will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. It looks like a "mountain out of a molehill" situation at this point but no one wants to get burned. Vision-Riders will get to use their logo's and the Vision Pilots will fly. Just watch.

The logo is a go-go!

I got a generic e-mail back from Polaris thanking me for my interest in their products and included links to the website and dealer info. Totally canned response to my request. I did some digging and called a Victory Rep direct. They listened to my issue and forwarded the call to someone above them in the chain of command. The "boss" was familiar with the logo and what we are attempting to do and saw no problem. The two main points were; 1) We didn't use the entire logo, just the "V". To his knowledge, Victory didn't have exclusive trademark rights on red "V"'s. The wings are no factor. 2) We are not in competition with Victory and are not establishing a business to draw away revenue. He told me to go for it and looked forward to seeing the VISION PILOT logo in person someday. End of discussion. (I have his address, he'll get one of the first sets.)

Crawford, we need a COPILOT oval. Po - Fire up that crazy machine. Show us what you've got.

Let's rock!

OK, here's where we're at. Miles and JAM have been very patient and accommodating as this whole logo thing has played out. I need for everybody to understand that this is not a grassroots organization that may someday turn into a competitor for Vision-Riders. The Vision Pilot stuff is along the same lines as "World's Greatest Dad". There is no such group out there. It is a fun slant that in many respects blew up way beyond what any of us saw coming.

If you are interested in stickers, e-mail me, Tom Warren, azwarren@hotmail.com. I ordered the first batch this morning. Please don't clog up the Vision-Riders PM system with this. I want to keep Vision-Riders cleared up for Miles and JAM to promote their own ventures with minimal distraction.

Thanks for the fantastic input and dialogue. Live and learn.

Support Vision-Riders to the best of your ability. I will.

The initial run of stickers are my donation to the Vision community. No payment accepted, thanks for the offers. Will take about two weeks to get them in and get organized. E-mail me to get on the list.

I only ordered a limited number of each. Once they are gone, you're probably on your own. The originals will become part of Victory Vision lore.

The stickers will be 2X3". I originally talked reflective but it turns out that the base material, underneath the ink, is what is reflective. So, if you have a lot of ink on your logo (like ours) you are basically covering up the reflectivity. They will be non-reflective and look exactly like Crawford's ovals in the gallery.

Po and the patches are a separate animal. I have no idea what his options are. Suggest e-mail for coordination.

I would honored to be on the list for stickers and patches!

You have done awesome work! 

BadDogRacing69@hotmail.com

My e-mail address now shows up in my user profile. Thought it was already there.

Sorry 'bout dat.