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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Yeah we've read a MILLION threads on this topic....so thats not what this about......I can paraphrase everyones thoughts into one of the below categories.
1 - your absolutely bat shit crazy....car tires are for cars, motorcycle tires for motorcycles....that will never work
2 - your still absolutely bat shit crazy......car tires might work but not well, if they did Victory would use them.....your going to die
3 - sure it will mount up but its going to corner like your riding on a brick....why would you do that
4 - why would you but a $20K bike then cheap out on tires....what a waste, you suck, your mom sucks and now your bike sucks
5 - works great
If you have any comment that doesnt fit 1 thru 5.....I havent heard it.
Anywho.....so I take my Vision over to Ye Old Motorsickle Mechanic (not the real name of the shop obviously....I live in Iowa, nowhere near any New England states where they talk like that). Ive got new brakes (EBC)......new front tire (Bridgestone Exedra) and new rear tire (Bridgestone G019 Grid in 185/55-16).
My mechanic is an absolutely genius.....I swear hes the ONLY reason I can afford to keep 9 motorcycles on the road.....hes great.....and cheap.......two things that rarely occur at the same time. Hes also 27 years old.....and had never done this before.....and really hadnt ever heard of it. His dad is the shop owner and has had a cycle shop for long enough to have rode old HDs back in the day with Volkswagen tires on them. He didnt think I was as crazy as his son.
None the less we start the adventure......and to top it off its 95 in the shade with a heat index well over 100 (heat advisory...stay inside....all that jazz)....and he already went to the ER with heat stroke.......and Im a fat bastard that breaks a sweat taking a shower.....really, we are screwed.
So we tackle the rear first.....start with the hard end right. On the lift it goes.....did not like how "wiggly" the bike was on the lift (which was rated at 1000lbs). He assured me "thats nothing....I do this all the time.....dont worry Ive only dropped one bike".....cool, so atleast the odds are in my favor.....1 in over 10 years isnt that bad - lets DO IT!
Jack bike up (using the motor....I read that in the manual but still didnt give me the warm and fuzzies when I was doing it....wow), unbolt the shock so the swing arm can drop down.....pull the axle bolt.....drop center out of lift......tires is off.....cool....well, actually hot as hell.
Drink gallon of water......cuss and rant about the heat.....bitch and moan more about the heat......life sucks and its hot....yadda yadda....back to work.
Tire comes off fine....car tires goes on just fine but the bead didnt want to "pop" so we did more cussing, ranting......water drinking......using mass quantities of air while we grimaced and faced the other direction bracing for the explosion.....which never happened....."pop" and were seated and ready to roll.
Did I mention it was hot and Im fat....yeah....damn it was hot.....damn Im fat. More water and a long break in front of a big fan......and we roll the tire under and get it mounted all up (and decided not to use the rear brakes as they werent that worn). "Wow" he says....."it fit". "Duh.....I read it would on the internet....." I says. I think he mumbled something about "yeah thats probably were you read this was a good idea to" and then chuckled.
So now the bike is back on the ground.....hot ground, scorching ground....but solid ground. I rest easier.
Stop for a water/fan break and more bitching about the heat.....it has to be done and we are going to do it.
For the front we surmise we are going to use the nifty jack stands Victory has built into the bike called the tip over points. I back the bike off the lift and throw it on the ground......shit. I could have thrown in on the ground in the shade.....Im square in the F-ing sun.......and its still hot.......and Im still fat.
Front axle off....wheel out......in 5 mins. Hell yeah, now we are HAULING ASS.
.....pause for 30 minute water break/bitch session.......its hot and hauling ass is hard work.
Pull the utterly square off crap tire......mount up the new one......break for water....bitch about heat.
Put front axle back in.......swap brakes........break for water.....bitch about heat.
So the bikes back upright and he pulls it around front for me.
"This will never work.....it feels like your riding on a flat tire" - he says. "Yeah thats normal at low speed.....thats what they said on the internet". He rolls his eyes.
Now my mechanic is great.....were friends.....but to say he was skeptical about this idea was an understatement....I think at this point he thought maybe me and him were using WAY different "internet" and that I was nuts.
None the less his curiosity got the better of him and he went from "I want no part of riding this bike, your going to die" to "I better test ride this to make sure the brakes work".
He takes off.....Im sure there was water drinking before and maybe some bitching about the heat.....but at this point its a given that happens every 15 minutes.
He comes back after 10 mins.
"Ugh....thats crazy.....if I hadnt mounted that tire myself I would have never known there was a car tire under there.....hell that bike rides better then most bikes Ive put new motorcycle tires on."
He took it out and put a few miles on it.....scraped peg.....did tight u-turns in the road.....drank water.....cussed about the heat......and it worked well, he never had a problem.
Ive also found no issues so far.....Im loving it.
Did I mention my mechanic was both good and cheap.
Total bill for 5 hours work - $52.50 He charges $35 an hour and figured it only SHOULD have taken 1 1/2 hours TOPS.......so we took the 5 hours and subtracted the water drinking and bitching about the heat.....and got that figure......I think we stopped for lunch to.
So I spent a good chunk of the day at my mechanics.....but it was like hanging out with a good friend......and we got to drink water, bitch about the heat and sweat our ass off.....what more do you need in life.
I also did the ultimate cheapo thing and used airsoft pellets instead of Dynabeads.....again he thought I was nuts.....till I asked him what the difference was.....and he had nothing....so in they went before we sealed up the tires (cause they dont fit thru the valve stems).
.......Im sure we stopped to drink some water and bitch about the heat after we poured them in.
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | Welcome to the Darkside. ET |
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Central Wisconsin | aaronrkelly - 2010-07-18 2:20 AM I also did the ultimate cheapo thing and used airsoft pellets instead of Dynabeads....
Your the first one that I heard of using airsoft pellets. Just curious what are they made of? I've been having good results with the dynabeads. 
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | What air pressure do you run? Also just wondering if there is any data out there other than how it feels, cause I'm a wimp at heart. I will do anything to avoid pain, which is probably why in ten years of riding, I haven't had an accident. Knock on wood, I'll go ten more. I've had some near accidents, like the late George Carlin, I don't call them near misses. That is when you almost didn't have an accident, but you did anyway. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Thomas - 2010-07-18 7:52 AM
aaronrkelly - 2010-07-18 2:20 AM? I also did the ultimate cheapo thing and used airsoft pellets instead of Dynabeads....
Your the first one that I heard of using airsoft pellets. Just curious what are they made of? I've been having good results with the dynabeads. ? ?
Is this the Potenza tire? |
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Central Wisconsin | candubrain - 2010-07-18 9:56 AM Thomas - 2010-07-18 7:52 AM aaronrkelly - 2010-07-18 2:20 AM? I also did the ultimate cheapo thing and used airsoft pellets instead of Dynabeads....
Your the first one that I heard of using airsoft pellets. Just curious what are they made of? I've been having good results with the dynabeads. ? ? Is this the Potenza tire? I'm running a Falken Ziex ZE-512. I went with lower profile 195/50-16 account of the trailer hitch, down side-the speedo reads faster. I think a 185/55 -16 would be fine.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | After I go thru these E3s, I am going darkside too. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | After my E 3 wears I'm more than likely Going to the darkside. I've done the darkside on my last bike so I know what to expect. Plus with the rear wheel not being the easiest to remove it would be nice to have a rear tire on for a few years without worry or replacement. . I miss that |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Thomas - 2010-07-18 7:52 AM
aaronrkelly - 2010-07-18 2:20 AM? I also did the ultimate cheapo thing and used airsoft pellets instead of Dynabeads....
Your the first one that I heard of using airsoft pellets. Just curious what are they made of? I've been having good results with the dynabeads. ? ?
Plastic...
You have to buy decent quality ones.....basically they must be seamless. Those cheapy ones with the nasty looking plastic hanging off the seam will leave debris and nasty stuff in your tire. Even WalMart carries the nice seamless ones. I bought the heaviest ones I could.....they were .25g per BB. Then I just used a food scale and the chart from Dynabeads.....adding a little extra just in case, worked like a charm. I got 5000 airsoft pellets for $9. I used approx 10% of those tops......Ive got alot of tire balancing left out of that tub of pellets. Heck at that price I might start pouring them in everything....why not.
ALOT of the guys running big tires on 4x4 rigs will run airsoft pellets because in the quantity they need them the Dynabeads would be FAR to expensive. Ive also read about people using steel shot out of a shotgun shell........and even golf balls in some of the biggest 4x4 tires. Airsoft pellet use is actually pretty common though. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | baadawg - 2010-07-18 9:47 AM
What air pressure do you run? Also just wondering if there is any data out there other than how it feels, cause I'm a wimp at heart. I will do anything to avoid pain, which is probably why in ten years of riding, I haven't had an accident. Knock on wood, I'll go ten more. I've had some near accidents, like the late George Carlin, I don't call them near misses. That is when you almost didn't have an accident, but you did anyway.
Im running 34 psi in mine.
As for data....well your not likely to read any info in a magazine or from a big, widely known source.....and on any Darkside forum your going to see tons of disclaimers. Its not that its altogether that dangerous.....its just that its a liability.....and for that reason you will likely never see any media say "car tires on bikes rock, do it".
There are plenty of people doing it and plenty of forums talking about it though.....Google up a ton of into....both for and against, decide for yourself. Its not for everyone but you rarely hear any complaints from those that have done it......and even then they arent "oh my god I about died"....its usually....."it was just different and I didnt like it".
In my experience, so far, I havent even noticed any difference really.....other then now I dont have to use my kickstand anymore......my bike stands up on its own.
kidding on that last part |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | candubrain - 2010-07-18 9:56 AM
Is this the Potenza tire?
This is the Potenza G019 Grid from Bridgestone. 
Basically I went to Tire Rack and did some research using their rating system. I was looking for high ratings in dry and wet traction and then also looking at the overall satisfaction. This tire good great ratings. I called my local place and ordered it in the size I needed. Worked great.
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Thomas - 2010-07-18 10:23 AM I'm running a Falken Ziex ZE-512.� I went with lower profile 195/50-16� account of the trailer hitch, down side-the speedo reads faster. I think a 185/55 -16 would be fine.
The info I got was that the 195/55-16 worked great but in a hard bounce 2 up or loaded heavy that there is some slight rubbing on the hitch.� The info also said this did not occur with the 185/55-16.� The rub is that the 195/55-16 is a common size.� My tire in that size was $93.� The 185/55-16 is kinda rare.� You wont have the same range of selection, not many tires available in that size.� Luckily mine was.....but it cost $114.....over $20 MORE.� In the end I figured $20 wasnt a big deal considering the mileage Im gonna get out of this thing.
Was the 195/50-16 pricier.......how common of a size is it?
Edited by aaronrkelly 2010-07-18 11:00 PM
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Central Wisconsin | Aaron...thanks for the information. It's going to be interesting to see how they hold up. The Falken Ziex 512 195/50-16 was about a $100. I haven't had any rubbing against the trailer hitch with 3000 miles of use. I would go with the 185/55-16 next time to get the speedo more accurate.
Edited by Thomas 2010-07-19 6:06 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | I found out that if you raise the psi to 42, I had a lot better ride on the Kumo. ET |
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Tourer
Posts: 401
| aaronrkelly - 2010-07-18 10:40 PM
Thomas - 2010-07-18 7:52 AM
aaronrkelly - 2010-07-18 2:20 AM? I also did the ultimate cheapo thing and used airsoft pellets instead of Dynabeads....
Your the first one that I heard of using airsoft pellets. Just curious what are they made of? I've been having good results with the dynabeads. ?
Plastic...
You have to buy decent quality ones.....basically they must be seamless. Those cheapy ones with the nasty looking plastic hanging off the seam will leave debris and nasty stuff in your tire. Even WalMart carries the nice seamless ones. I bought the heaviest ones I could.....they were .25g per BB. Then I just used a food scale and the chart from Dynabeads.....adding a little extra just in case, worked like a charm. I got 5000 airsoft pellets for $9. I used approx 10% of those tops......Ive got alot of tire balancing left out of that tub of pellets. Heck at that price I might start pouring them in everything....why not.
ALOT of the guys running big tires on 4x4 rigs will run airsoft pellets because in the quantity they need them the Dynabeads would be FAR to expensive. Ive also read about people using steel shot out of a shotgun shell........and even golf balls in some of the biggest 4x4 tires. Airsoft pellet use is actually pretty common though.
Ok, how do you get a .6mm pellet into the tire without breaking the bead? I thought those pellets are almost the same size as the valve. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | sgiacci - 2010-07-19 3:45 PM
Ok, how do you get a .6mm pellet into the tire without breaking the bead? I thought those pellets are almost the same size as the valve.
You dont.....your right, they wont fit. You have to break a bead. In this case I was mounting new tires so I just poured them in before I seated the bead. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 101
Cold Lake Alberta Canada | I didn't put in any beads, but I am running a 195-55-16 potenza grid. I had no problem getting the tire to fit as it said on the darkside forum. It also seated at a reasonable pressure. I went with this size as it matches up the closest in circumference to stock, it is wider. The spedo and the odometer are bang on the money, verified buy the RCMP, the speed part anyway. I have done lots of research on line and directly to users and nay nasers. I like it and know lots of people that think that I am an ailien ( that was even before the tire thing ). I have mine at 32 psi and the rear shock at 35. It seems to work real well, I am also a lad that is above average stature, well girth anyways you could say I'm under tall.
Either way I am a darksider and see no reason to go back.
If you like it cool, if you don't like it cool.
Just remember to ride and enjoy. |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
I also have the Potenza 195.55.16 on mine. I am running 42 in mine. I've got about 8,000 miles on it and the tread is wearing nice and even all the way across. I realize that may be a little high for a car tire...but the bike is happy and so am I!
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Looks like a made a good decision with the Potenza.....two happy customers already.
Im 6ft4in and 320lbs.....I ride 2 up alot with a 200lb rider and also pull a trailer so I left the shock at 55lbs. Seems to be the middle ground and its not to hard when Im by myself.
I did read that air pressure was VERY subjective, what works for one person may not work for another.
Im loving it so far. |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| I'm running the Potenza 195.55.16. I have over 6000 miles on it. The only think I've noticed is the tire tends to "follow the road" when the pavement is uneven more than the E3. That's the biggest thing that took a little getting use to. I ride about 12000 - 14000 miles a year. The Potenza will save a rider roughly $600 -$800 in its lifetime. To me, that's a couple weekend trips or a couple accessories. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Has anyone found a run-flat in our size? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | ScoreBo - 2010-07-20 10:06 AM
Has anyone found a run-flat in our size?
There are several on the tirerack.com web site. I wonder if the side wall might be too stiff and give a harsh ride. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| only a few select tires for the Vision and no run flats I've heard of. Personally I'd opt for the 185 rather than the 195 simply due to the clearance issue IF you are running a hitch but thats really personal pref. I just figure if you are going to have an issue with a DS tire it will be the sidewall so why tempt fate. The only 2 tires in 185 are the dunlop and bridgestone. I'd opt for the Dunlop due to tread pattern. The 185 is the stock tire for the Honda FIT so one should not have an issue finding this size tire. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Teach - 2010-07-20 9:51 AM
only a few select tires for the Vision and no run flats I've heard of. Personally I'd opt for the 185 rather than the 195 simply due to the clearance issue IF you are running a hitch but thats really personal pref. I just figure if you are going to have an issue with a DS tire it will be the sidewall so why tempt fate. The only 2 tires in 185 are the dunlop and bridgestone. I'd opt for the Dunlop due to tread pattern. The 185 is the stock tire for the Honda FIT so one should not have an issue finding this size tire.
I guess I dont see a problem in the tread on the G019 grid....but then Im new to this. This was my swaying point.
Tire Rack owners survey data.
You can see the Bridgestone is reported superior in every section over the Dunlop. Its also got over 4 million miles reported to the very low 280K of the Dunlop. To me that means the Bridgestone is the superior tire.
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Cool they now make the Potenza in the 185, they didn't a year ago. Bridgestone did have a 185 but the tread pattern was uneven hence the dunlop recommendation (if going 185). Good to know this isn't a factor anymore. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
| I did a little research into the runflat and the only company I found that actually had a tire that would fit (I think) is the Kumho Ecsta SPT XRP 195/55R 16 they run pretty steep aound 140-160 US$. Rated at a 145 mph. 50 miles at 50 mph with no air.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Ok, now we're talking...145mph on the darkside. Has anyone taken the a Vision to the rev limit on the darkside routinely? |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | I havent done it routinely.....I dont like big tickets. I did do it a couple times to make sure there were no balance issues - no problems. The regular car tire Im using is rated at H - which is 130mph. I suppose a worked over Vision might pass that....but I know my stock wont come close.
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | Love my 195/55/16 potenza g 019 grid |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i went to a tire store today to see what they had in stock for the vision in size 195/55-16. and all they had was the Potenza but the manager said he cant recommend it because they see alot of edge feathering of the tread. its a tire that needs to be rotated or so he claimed. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Hey your telling us that a car tire will be great in curves and will not wash out on us in the rain????????????????????????????///// |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Why would it? |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | I have rode in several heavy rain storms and have not had any problems. And I also ride hard on twisty roads. ET |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | john frey - 2010-09-06 7:55 PM
Hey your telling us that a car tire will be great in curves and will not wash out on us in the rain????????????????????????????/////
Ive got a box full of ground off pegs to prove it handles fine in the curves.....I can lean my Vision over till hard parts tag the ground - either at 10mph in the parking lot or 80mph on the freeway with ease with the car tire. Ive done it several times in a parking lot to prove the car tire does corner.
As for the rain - I guess one could argue personal preference but I felt the bike was MORE stable and handled BETTER with the Potenza car tire vs the Dunlop E3 I had on it before.
Arkainzeye - 2010-09-06 7:20 PM
i went to a tire store today to see what they had in stock for the vision in size 195/55-16. and all they had was the Potenza but the manager said he cant recommend it because they see alot of edge feathering of the tread. its a tire that needs to be rotated or so he claimed.
The Potenza is one of the most widely used car tires on bikes.....Ive got plenty of miles on mine and see no feathering - but time will tell. I wouldnt worry about it - lots of guys use it.
Edited by aaronrkelly 2010-09-06 11:09 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 104
Corona, CA | I have run a run flat Dunlop car tire on my Gold Wing for a year now and would never go back to a motorcycle tire.
My wife loves the softer ride and the security you have with the runflat when you're out in the boonies.
The one I run is a 195/55-16. This will be going on the 08 I just bought.
Dunlop SP SPORT 3000 DSST
195/55 R16 87H runflat, A, * BSW
Stock Level: 18
UTQG: 240-A-A
RRP price*: $ 146.50
only $118.10
less 5% Off all Tires: $112.19
More can be found at
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=135&cart_id=20654277.135...
www.tires-easy.com
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| OK you have me half way talked into it. How much air are you running. I am about 215 solo rider unless some one finds me and no trunk.
I do lean way to much in curves and scrap the front tip over quiet a bit. Free ways for the most part don't have real hard curves like back roads do.
I thank all of you for your response I know you have better things to do. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Here is what I think from everything I have learned over the years. The words are from a writer for Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine:
Car tires are fundamentally unsuited for use on motorcycles. Moreover, that's not just my opinion but also the opinion of every tire engineer I've ever discussed this with. We all understand that the dynamics of motorcycles and cars are vastly different. As such, they demand different types of tires and at the risk of great over simplification I'd point out that if a car type tire worked well on a motorcycle everything from a moped to a MotoGP bike would be wearing them as standard equipment. The fact that they can even be used on a big cruiser says more about the way those bikes are designed and ridden than it does about the suitability of using a car tire on one.
The full article is at:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/0907_crup_mounting_car_tires_...
The key is - if car tires were better - they would be on ALL bikes.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | ...I've got to learn the toss and catch technique for my popcorn...it would make tire, oil, filters, air, and dealer threads much more enjoyable...now I turn it over to the gecko... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | john frey - 2010-10-26 1:33 PM
OK you have me half way talked into it. How much air are you running. I am about 215 solo rider unless some one finds me and no trunk.
I do lean way to much in curves and scrap the front tip over quiet a bit. Free ways for the most part don't have real hard curves like back roads do.
I thank all of you for your response I know you have better things to do.
Just as a caution, and you can talk to anyone who races motorcycles, it is not good to touch down ridgid parts on the bike. It has a tendency to unload the suspension and if the road were to rise to you which sometimes happens in some curves due to a double apex you could be in trouble. If the front or rear suspension is unloaded enough, then the contact pressure on the rubber either a MT or CT is reduced causing the tire to slide, and unless you know how to slide a motorcycle sideways, your down. There are many classic pictures of that happening on the Dragon. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | john frey - 2010-10-26 2:33 PM
OK you have me half way talked into it. How much air are you running. I am about 215 solo rider unless some one finds me and no trunk.
I do lean way to much in curves and scrap the front tip over quiet a bit. Free ways for the most part don't have real hard curves like back roads do.
I thank all of you for your response I know you have better things to do.
Id start at 34 to 36 and adjust accordingly. |
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car tire on my bike....."WHAT!?!" my mechanic says....