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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| For the first time EVER in 19+ years of riding on the street I was stranded on the side of the road last night! I had noticed the past couple of days while riding that occasionally the clutch lever would work it's way back without any real input from me other than resting my first two fingers on it like I always ride (same way on the brake side). Well, last night when my wife and I were riding to dinner, she was on her Suzuki Burgman 650, and while stopped at a traffic light I completely lost the ability to disengage the clutch and the Vision lurched forward a couple of feet and died. I managed to walk the bike through the intersection and to the side of the road but still had no control of the clutch. I pulled off the master cylinder cover to check the fluid thinking it might simply be low but it was up to the proper level but the fluid was almost completely BLACK. I've never seen hydraulic fluid look like this in a mere 2 years (I took delivery of my Vision April 5th, '08). My thought is that it could have something to do with the DOT4 fluid attacking the rubber seal on the master cylinder, any other ideas? The good news is that we only 5 minutes from home so I had my wife watch over the Vision while I rode her bike back to the house to grab some tools to attempt a roadside repair and return with the car. The service manager Ralph from Randy's Cycles came and picked up my Vision about two hours after the breakdown occured and I have to give thanks to him as the drive from Marengo where Randy's Cycles is at to Fox Lake where my Vision was stuck is about an hour and this happened just before they were closing! |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I've never heard of that, let us know what the final outcome is.................. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Yes, please keep us informed. I had the dealer replace my brake fluid on the last visit. Maybe I will have him replace the clutch fluid this service.
Did the fluid look black in the inspection window? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| I had the slave cylinder go bad so maybe? It started acting funny and was completely gone in about a mile of city redlights. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | I was at Randy's dropping my Vision off when Ralph was going crazy trying to get out of there to go get your bike. When it comes to taking care of customers I really don't think that there isn't anything that Randy and his crew won't do.
As far as your clutch did you happen to look at the little cylinder thingie at the end of the cable where it hooks to the transmission? I think there are one or two threads around here where folks have mentioned that this has snapped off the cable. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| From your description it sounds as though your clutch fluid was overheated several times, probably over the course of the past two years when riding in slow but hot temps where clutch use almost becomes clutch abuse. Seen this many times on Suzuki's with the hydro clutch. The hydro clutch is more high tech than the ole cable, but I'm not convinced it is better for city stop and go riding.
Now here is the POSITIVE in this post. You can purchase the clutch lever kit complete that is off the 8-Ball Vision, along with the cable (so two parts in all) and eliminate the hydro unit. OR you can change the fluid once a year (not a big job) which is what I have always done with hydro clutches.
ps... if you've ridden the CC with cable clutch you'll quickly realize the 106 clutch is REAL easy pull with a cable, so hydro isn't needed.
Edited by Teach 2010-06-04 4:19 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| The fluid was black in the inspection window and the slave cylinder did move in the proper proportion to the travel of the clutch lever movement prior to the loss of pressure.
Talking to Ralph at Randy's this evening he informed me that their primary Vision tech Steve had talked to a Victory tech and that as far as the people at Victory know this is the first time they have encountered the failure of a clutch master cylinder. They had Steve perform a number of tests including replacing the fluid with completely fresh fluid and it still appears to be the clutch master cylinder and not the slave cylinder.
I should say here that when I purchased my Vision Randy's was offering a chrome exchange service for both the front brake and clutch master cylinders that I opted to have done, could this have had an impact on the problem? I don't know and without seeing the bad unit disassembled I can't say. What I can say is this, Ralph informed me that my bike will be back up by tomorrow (Saturday) afternoon with another new chrome clutch master cylinder that they took from a set they have sitting on the shelf. Polaristar is covering the cost of replacing the master cylinder, I only have to cover the cost of chroming the replacement master cylinder.
Another thing that relates to this is that since the brake and clutch master cylinders (and related calipers and slave cylinders) are manufactured by Nissin I did a little checking on a few different Honda factory service manuals I have and although the pistons are different in length, the seals, gaskets, and C clips are identical to the ones found on the 2002-2005 Honda VTX 1800 C and F models. Why would this be important? Because according to Victory there is no rebuild kits available for either the clutch or front brake master cylinders, the only factory option is to replace the entire assembly as a whole part. The price of the Honda rebuild kits for the VTX 1800 clutch master cylinder and front brake master cylinder is $44.50, just throw away the piston and use the rest of the supplied parts.
Teach, I have ridden the CC with the cable clutch and you are correct, the clutch pull is not any different than the hydraulic clutch on the Vision. That makes sense too as even with the hydraulic system you are still moving the same operating lever on the clutch housing with the same clutch springs, if anything you might have a BETTER feel with the cable clutch. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Travelin Man,
Thanks for the feedback on the issue. I will make that site window (clutch) an important part of my ride checklist.
Just like I check the throttle cable lock nuts behind the Right cheese wedge.
Ride Safe! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Travelin Man, also, thanks for the feedback on your issue. I did a Google on black clutch fluid, and saw it is not uncommon. A lot of Corrvette forums talk about it. They were discussing the difference between the Dot 3 and Dot 4 fluids and the manufactures. Also, I looked at the service manual and it indicates clutch and brake fluids should be changed at 30k miles or at two years if you don't have the miles. Also, wanted to mention, looks like your dealer is outstanding, we all should be so lucky!!! Thanks for sharing. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| VT, my dealer, Randy's Cycles in Marengo, IL is excellent and I would rate their service and attention to customer satisfaction on par or even better that what I am used to from my other metric dealer, Nielsen Enterprises in Lake Villa, IL (Honda, Yamaha, Star, Suzuki, and Kawasaki, also a former Victory dealer up to '03). They are a small dealership whey when you walk in they know you and you will end up knowing the names of everyone that works there (~10 people including Randy the owner). |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | My clutch on my 2008 Vision was doing the exact same thing. Tried to bleed it out with new fluid to no avail. I just ordered a Honda VTX rebuild kit. I'll let everyone know how this works. If it dosen't I may go with a 8 Ball clutch cable.......... |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
Maylene, AL | Same thing happened to me. It was the slave cylinder... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | TLane1911 - 2014-01-08 9:35 PM
Same thing happened to me. It was the slave cylinder...
How did you fix yours ?? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
Maylene, AL | My slave cylinder was replaced at my local Victory Dealership. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 37
Dayton, OH | I live in OH and have had the opportunity to stop by Randy's on a couple of different road trips. Nothing but good things to say about his shop. Very friendly and found some nice accessories there I haven't seen anywhere else. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I am probably gonna go with the 8 Ball clutch cable. I measured the clutch master cylinder piston and it was out of tolerance. .484 at the seal rings. The minimum is .494, also the cylinder bore looked a little scarred, probably from the front seal being so soft. My bike only has 3 years and 31,000 miles on it. I only replaced the fluid once. Not bitching just want to fix it and not have this problem again.
Anyone else using the cable system off an 8 Ball ??
Edited by XRsteve 2014-04-14 5:28 PM
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First time EVER stranded on the side of the road!