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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | KevinX, have you installed and tuned any 114" kits? If so what was the outcome and are they as reliable as a breathed on 106?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Anyone else know if the before mentioned problems have been solved with the big bore kit? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | I have not had a chance to install a set of the de-bugged 114 cyls/pistons yet, but it is my understanding that the early issues are indeed worked out |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
| I have mine back with about 400 miles on it so far with no issues. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Tex could you keep us updated every once in a while ?? I figure if nothing happens in the first 2000 miles nothing is gonna happen. By the way how much power does it make and not withstanding the "re make" is it worth the expense ??? Thanks..............steve |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | KevinX: Thank you for your response also, always appreciated knowledge from a person that works with upgrading these engines all the time...............steve |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
| I have around 2k on it now with no issues. It made 129hp and 130 ft lbs on Lloyds dyno. Suprisingly, mileage averaged 43 on my trip this weekend running 70 to 75. |
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Tourer
Posts: 415
| Do you have the extended rev limiter also? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
| Yes, it does have the extended rev limiter. It makes peak hp at 5,900 and drops from there. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Now that would be a HUGE improvement, even just shifting 200 rpm past peak power would drop it back to the real pulling point each gear shift, thus making it way quicker than a 5500rpm limited bike........................ |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Now the question is, with the 1/8th larger bore would it be worth larger valves ( unshrouded ) and a port job to fill that engine better above 3500rpm ??? |
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Tourer
Posts: 537
, FL United States | Could there be another update as to the performance so far??? Does anyone else done this? Tex who did you big bore kit? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | It's frustrating coming from the HD community where all high performance numbers are a known quanity. The Victory, especially the Freedom engine specs are unknown, like it's magic or something. Engines are not magic, just air flow machines and I guess we'll have to wait till there are many hot rod shops to know who is the best and know specs for head flows ( porting ) cams and exhaust to know the absolute best combinations for big HP numbers and street longevitiy............. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 169
The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | My shop is doing these builds. Even though Tex is a friend of mine, and in my neighborhood, he had Lloyd build his. I believe Tex has one (if not "the") first production, not test, 114" Visions. The kit isn't rocket science, its very similar to Lloyds 104/110 kits. Although head work is recommended, it isn't required. Budget would be the only reason you wouldn't. Now that things between Lloyd and S&S are finally getting ironed out I'm hoping to see alot more guys coming in the door wanting this kit! |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Vicbuilder: have you done any 114 inchers since Llowd took over the S&S cylinder responsibilities ?? One more question how thick is the 114 cylinder liner, can it be bored one additional time like .010 or .020 ?? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 169
The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | Yep, I've done a 109 a few weeks ago (114 with a 106crank). The bore is so large I can't comment if one could go bigger safely, you'd have to ask the master! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 169
The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | Well, I had to talk with Lloyd anyway today, so I asked if there were plans to go bigger than 114 or 116. No - there is no need or want yet. His race prepped 116's are making in the 170HP range, and going more would be lots of costs for very little market. Plus I don't know how you would stuff more piston in that cylinder, they are pretty maxed out as is with the 116.
But for those interested in the 114-116 Lloydz is about to post new parts prices and availabilites soon on his website. If you like what you see and am looking for a builder closer to you than Lloyd or KevinX keep The Vic Shop in mind! |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | OK Kevin, how much for a big bore party with the rev limiter upgrade included??? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 169
The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | Gray rider - 2010-06-29 6:57 PM
OK Kevin, how much for a big bore party with the rev limiter upgrade included???
Sorry, not Kevin, and I know you were probably joking around, but I had someone else ask me this as well. They didn't realize the job is 15+ hrs depending on the complexity of the build, and your cylinders would be sent out to Lloyd for modification, thus a 2-3 week turnaround at least. It's a good winter project. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Sounds like a VERY good winter project. Ah, a Vision with 140 HP and 130 ft lbs. Tha would be a monster........Second gear wheelies..... |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | Rylan, how much for the 114" upgrade and rev limiter mod?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Is there a need to use special HIGHER octane fuel due to these extra mods? I mean higher than the pumps have? A friend of mine had his HD dynas motor worked bigtime. After the build they found out why it wouldn't run just right and made noise. (Ping) I think he said...? The shop did the math and claimed he would now need 105 octane for everything to run properly? Can that really happen? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Oh yeah it can happen. Aircooled engines have a compression ratio limit. On HD's ( 2 valve air cooled engines ) it's about 9.5:1. With head work and super tight tolerances on the piston to head clearance around 10.2:1. With tight tolerances and dual plugging around 11:1 My hot rod XL has 13.5:1 compression and I have all the tricks done plus run 110 full leaded race gas mixed 4 to 1 with Amoco clear gas ( now BP )
That being said I don't know the ends and outs of the Victory heads yet. I bet Lloyd does, since he is setting up heads with porting and bigger valves. They do have some advantages as far as compression goes, one the four valve design allows for a center plug location and the traditional four valve head has a flatter combustion chamber than 2 valve heads and these are both good. There will be an upper compression limit on 93 octane gas though, an aircooled engine even with good finning like the Freedom engine can only throw off so much heat and heat causes detonation............. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | One more thing for people who don't understand, higher octane gasoline does not make more power than low octane gas. They have the same thermal value. It does however gives you the ability to run higher compression ratios because the chemicals added to the HO gasoline slow down the flame front and that allows higher compression ratios and higher compression engines all other things being equal make more power than low compresion engines. low octane gasoline would explode in the combustion chamber of a high compression engine insead of burning evenly acros the top of the piston. The exploding is what we hear as detonation. ( pinging ) |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
| I just got back from a 3,200 mile trip with the 114. I have around 6,000 miles on the motor now which put out 129hp and 130ft lbs. It still runs strong and I got 42 mpg running fully loaded on 15 in Utah between 85 to 90 mph. The computer said I averaged 46.7 for the entire trip. I only calculated it on that one tank. I was consistently putting in the same amount of gas as my buddy on his BMW. The power is great, but the mileage is an added bonus.
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Tex that sounds GREAT, 42mpg with a 129HP big twin, you can't beat that my man...............Could you crush the beemer in acceleration ?? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 169
The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | Gray rider - 2010-06-30 10:48 AM
Rylan, how much for the 114" upgrade and rev limiter mod??
Well, I haven't got the final prices yet, but I heard the BASIC kit (cylinders, gaskets and pistons) will be in the $1200 range. Then you have the cams, fuel/rev control, clutch, labor, any head work, maybe crank balancing if you choose. So it adds up pretty quick. I'd say at least $3000, up to $5K+ for the full on deal....
Edited by Vicbuilder 2010-06-30 9:09 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | That ain't too bad, especially if you can break the 135HP barrier with headwork. It all comes chasing the HP........... |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
| I could take him with no problem, but he beat me like a rented mule in the twisties.
BTW Rylan is a top notch wrench and built a motor for my Hammer. I went over and checked out his shop a couple of weeks ago and it is a great setup. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Well we are riding 800+ pound machines with really long wheel bases........ |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Well, haven't heard much about any 114" motors lately, has anyone else done the upgrade, if so how do you like it ?? AND was it worth the money ?? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
Eagle Mountain, Utah | Rylan,
this is Vinh, do you know the cost of the 114 or 116 with rev limiter. I'm very much interest to have it done this winter, thanks. |
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KevinX: What about the 114" big bore kit?