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Tourer
Posts: 400
| There have been a couple threads about running car tires. For those that are, what tire are you using, and will you do it again? I will be replacing my rear tire in about a month and am considering switching to the darkside. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | I have also seen many pros and cons about the darkside but what I have never seen addressed is the liability angle. Being the skeptic I am, I can foresee a bike owner left holding the bag after an accident. I can visualize the tire manufacturer, the bike manufacturer, your insurance company, and any injured party pointing the finger at you saying that you knowingly and willingly but the bike out of spec and created the mishap.
A man can buy a lot of Dunlap 3's with the 20 grand for a new bike. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | If that were the case, then what did they do back in the 70's when almost all homemade bobbers ran white-wall car tires? The technology of bikes today and tires for that matter is far more superior than back then. Car tire manufacturers actually put their car tires through more stress tests than most motorcycle tire manufacturers due to government regulations. There is a lot of useful info on the Darksiders' website that you can check out. There are a lot more people running "darkside" than you might think. |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| I don't want to start an argument about yes vs. no on the car tire topic. I'm trying to get the opinions of those who have ran a car tire on the Vision. There were a couple threads months ago about this topic and a few regulars on this website were switching over. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Indy, Go to the website www.ridingonthedarkside.com (I believe that's right) and look up gcarroll in the members list. He has been riding on a car tire for some time now on his Vision and he can probably give you some good insight. I have talked to him several times and he's about got me convinced to try it on my next tire change. You will be surprised how many people on that site are riding Darksde.
Just looked at another thread and seen that gcarroll is listed on this website as gcarroll70.
Edited by atvtinker 2010-03-22 4:25 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | I dont have a car tire on my vision, BUT i did on my vulcan 2000. it was a 800lbs 2053cc cruiser. I had a goodyear triple tread on for 3 riding seasons before i traded it in and got a Vision. Someone mentioned about the insurance company voiding your coverage.? Thats False... I know because i asked nationwide about it. They said as long as it is D.O.T. cert as says so on the side wall.. They dont care about the make,model etc. they look for the D.O.T. and the amount of tread on the tire. (IF) they believe the accident was caused by lack of traction etc.
Now when i went to the Darkside, it took me about 2-5 miles to adjust to it. i will say this. rain traction And braking was unlike anything i had on my past bikes... when you hit the rear brake watch out.. Larger contact patch! In the 3 seasons i had the tire (cant remember mileage) the tire still looks about 95% new. I even got a large nail it in and i was able to ride home! I then pulled the nail, plugged it and rode the remainder of the 3rd season. the areas that were hard to get used too was, coming to a stop light when the road was NOT even. the bike leans to the angle of the road.. I right now at this point dont feel a need to go to the dark side with the tire life i get on my vision. When i had my vulcan you can get as short as 3500 miles up to 5500 miles and thats about it.. i changed my rear tire on the vision at 10000 and i know it could have went another 1000 or more.
OH BTW i rode my vulcan 2000 at Deals gap with the Car Tire on it.... so if it can handle The Dragon then your local roads are nothing to worry about.. I just wanted to share what i went through with my last bike and the car tire as well as my dealings with nationwide related to the car tire..
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I was one of the posters that plans on going darkside with my Vision. I have a few thousand miles of darkside on my old VT700C, and am quite happy with the results.-----Metalguy |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | I've gone to the Darkside however due to some other issues I have not had a chance to put any miles on it yet, so I can't write up a review yet.
I can say that it wasn't an easy whim decision for me. I did a lot of research...a WHOLE lot of research. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Lotzafun - 2010-03-23 11:55 AM
I've gone to the Darkside however due to some other issues I have not had a chance to put any miles on it yet, so I can't write up a review yet.
I can say that it wasn't an easy whim decision for me. I did a lot of research...a WHOLE lot of research.
I know what you mean when you say you did ALOT of research before hand.. i researched for about 6-9 months before i finally did it. i even researched the brand and model of tire.. I loved that i went 3 riding seasons and the tire was still "like new". plus i liked how when i got a nail in my tire all i did was plug it and ride! i didnt need to replace the tire.. plus the tire was only about 90-$100 at that time. my only downfalls were slow speeds and coming to a light where the road is not even. Youd probably need a new belt before you would need to replace the rear tire! |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| Lotzafun - 2010-03-23 11:55 AM
I've gone to the Darkside however due to some other issues I have not had a chance to put any miles on it yet, so I can't write up a review yet.
I can say that it wasn't an easy whim decision for me. I did a lot of research...a WHOLE lot of research.
What tire are you using? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | IndyVision - 2010-03-23 12:06 PM What tire are you using? I installed the Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid 195/55/R16 87H |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| Thanks, I've read where people have tried the 185, 195, and I think the 205. Where did you get the tire, if you don't mind me asking? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Purchased the tire locally from Just Tires. Went with the 195 because I don't have a hitch and don't plan on one in the near future. I think it was "Teach" who tried the 195 and found that it rubbed the Hitchdoc. And I think it was "Etspastimes" who tried the 205 and it didn't fit at all, rubbed the front of the swingarm pretty badly.
So it appears that 195 without a hitch and 185 if you have a hitch and 205 if you are ready for some...um..."infield engineering modification procedures" |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | Just had the Kumho 195/55R16 Run Flat put on today. I can't feel any difference on cornering or stopping. However, I also put on a new Dunlop E3 on the front and am taking it easy 'til they both get a few miles on them. Will post more later.
BTW I really got tired of putting a new E3 on the rear every 8-9 k miles. I live in Florida and ride mostly straight,flat roads (not many "twistys" down here). |
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Tourer
Posts: 575
Spirit Lake IA "Birthplace of Victory Motorcycles" | This is all pretty fascinating! I am a newbie to the whole motorcycle thing, but the conversion to the darkside seems quite appealing. Any real safety / insurance / warranty issues with doing this as long as the right tire is purchased? Really like the idea of a run-flat. What kind of psi you guys running with 2 up?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Man314 - 2010-03-23 4:20 PM
This is all pretty fascinating! I am a newbie to the whole motorcycle thing, but the conversion to the darkside seems quite appealing. Any real safety / insurance / warranty issues with doing this as long as the right tire is purchased? Really like the idea of a run-flat. What kind of psi you guys running with 2 up??
if you read above youll see what i posted about when i went to the darkside andmy insurance companies response. as far as psi. i learned my my bike less was more.. i started with 40psi and ended up with 26psi. at first i treated the car tire like motorcycle tire in terms of air pressure. when i put the amount of air that made it feel "right" i found myself 14 psi Lower than when i first started using it.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Indy, most folks are running the potenza 195, even some folks running a hitch. Here is what I can say: The 195 is too tight with a hitch. For the most part no problem but if you hit a bump with a passenger on board it will rub. I'd recommend the 185 if you plan to run a hitch and you'll get an additional 1/8-1/4 more clearance on each side so no rub.
I ran the cage tire for around 1000-1500 miles and for the most part was fine with it. As stated you will feel uneven road surface some, but for me it was what I called pushing over the hump that I didn't like. The point at which the tire rolls over the edge to the sidewall is what I call the hump. Now some say you don't lean the bike far enough to roll up on the hump, thats bull or I ride way more aggressive than I thought. Some have told me the air pressure was too high and I should have lowered it more. I don't know and frankly don't care as just knowing it was on the back and the slight extra effort in pushing into a turn was enough to make me switch back to a bike tire. I would NOT rule out running the DS tire again, in fact I plan to snag up another rear rim to mount it on for a quick swap. I'll save this setup and use it for long trips in which Interstate riding is the majority. However for 99% of the riding I do, I prefer the feel of a bike tire.
I guess if you are replacing a rear tire per season, you really don't need to consider a DS tire. If however you are replacing more than 1 rear per season you might want to give it a go. Honda has a car called the FIT which uses the 185/55/16 tire you'll want if you run a hitch, the Bridgestone 195 can be bought a number of places. You can also purchase the 185 online for around $90. You'll have a choice between a Bridgestone or a Dunlop in that size. The tread pattern on the Dunlop appears more bike friendly. Hope this helps. |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| Thanks Teach, I don't mean to sound like an idiot, but what does DS stand for? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | DS = Darkside = Using a car tire as the rear on a motorcycle instead of a tire that is made for motorcycle use.
Use the force and ride safe.
Edited by radioteacher 2010-03-23 10:55 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Reston, Virginia | I have over 30K miles using car tires on motorcycles and love how it performs. It is true there is a slightly different feel however the benefits more than outweigh the differences. My current VV has 23K miles total with 14K miles with a CT. It is the Bridgestone Potenza 195 and I use the HitchDoc hitch. Rubbing only occurs on rare deep shock compression events. The tire still looks brand new and it is superb in the rain. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i know one of the advantages of the CT is on a long trip. if you get a nail, just plug it or use fix a flat.! i patched my "nail the tire" and never had to replace the tire! great piece of mind on a long road trip. and on these visions replacing the rear tire is a True P.I.T.A. !! id rather have to replace a front tire on a road trip and that crazy rear! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I would NOT advise using fixa flat on a bike regardless of tire. For starters it pits the rims internally, and second that crap is a bear to get out of the rim once you do get around to it. Most bike shops won't touch a DS tire, but they definitely won't with fix-a-flat in it (makes a mess). If you need to plug a tire make sure you carry the plug/patch variety for peace of mind. Just my 2 cents. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | http://www.fixaflat.com/faqs.asp |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Ok....did about 150 miles so far on the CT. And I can say that so far I love it !!
GCarroll is correct with the statement of "a slightly different feel"
I feel that the overall ride quality is better. Stopping power is improved. Cornering is a bit sharper. But none of these individually are the proverbial "decision makers" though. However when they are combined together as a whole they are decision makers.
Did find a couple of small issues. At low parking lot speeds the turning is kinda "wacky" in that you can feel the car tire wanting to stay "flat" on the pavement and it takes an "adjustment" or "learning curve" to figure out the tricks to maneuver. And on a couple of country roads that had deeper tire ruts in the road the bike want to gravitate to the bottom of the rut a bit more than a bike with a motorcycle tire would. Again this is an adjustment in riding style type thing. I actually turned around and took one of these roads a few times so I could get a bit used to the differences in handling the ruts.
Do I recommend that going to the darkside is for everyone? Well...no...it isn't for everyone. But do I recommend researching and deciding for yourself if its something for you to do? Well....hell yea. It really isn't as scary as some of the naysayers make it out to be. If you are in the area I'll gladly make arrangements for anyone to take my bike out for a test ride.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | I put another 100 sMiles on the CT today and have to agree with a lot of what Lotzafun said. Stopping is greatly improved over stock Dunlop.
I've not ridden in the rain yet but since I'm in Florida I'm sure I'll have the experience soon.
BTW I would NEVER put Fix-a-flat in a tire that's mounted on a motorcycle. Have a plug kit and mini air compressor to carry on long trips. Also have VRA and AAA RV Plus.
Edited by CoolHandLuke 2010-03-31 1:41 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Guys you won't notice any difference in the rain, but remember that rear tire will now hydroplane so count more on the front. As for the braking it is really more of a confidence thing than actual better braking (I tested it). My ASSUMPTION is that because the rear tire makes the bike feel more flat/hooked up on the road the "perception" is that stopping power is increased when it isn't.
I agree with Lotzafun as well and most of his observations sound just like mine. Glad you guys are happy with the alternative. Play with the pressures until you find one you are happy with, about 35-36 psi was where it felt the best for me and don't forget the tire will need some breakin time (about 500 miles) before the sidewalls begin to flex fully. You'll notice the hump as you turn less after the tire begins to flex. Enjoy |
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Darksider Updates?