Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision
flint350
Posted 2009-12-15 10:59 AM (#49727)
Subject: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md

I went for a brief ride yesterday since the temps got near 50 degrees and had an unfortunate incident that might be of general interest.  While going about 40 MPH and about 2 miles from home, my Vision suddenly went to wide open throttle on its own.  Not knowing what had happened, my instincts were still good and I had quickly pulled the clutch to avoid colliding with the car in front of me.  However, the engine was screaming at over 5500 RPM and I had to use the fuel cutoff switch to regain control, as I got off the road with a very narrow shoulder.  After getting my breath and heart rate back, I tried a re-start and the engine immediately went to full throttle again.  At first, I thought it might be a problem with the newly installed fuel controller from the recent cam upgrade.  However, this was not the case - the throttle cable nut had backed off and was dangling on the cable.  I spoke with KevinX who said that he had seen a few other incidents like this recently.  Kevin suggested applying some lock tite to the nut.  I assume the nut is backing off due to vibration, though my Vision runs fine - no excess vibration noted over 9000 miles.  

I am attaching a couple of photos of the area behind the right cheese wedge where the cable is located.  The photos are the same view, just a bit closer and with a red arrow to indicate which nut (the rearward one) backed off.  Since Kevin has seen this on other Visions, I thought some may want to know about this and possibly check their bikes for loose connections.  No, I won't say check the bike for 'loose nuts', knowing what the comments will be    Hope this is of some use/interest.

 

 

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IndyVision
Posted 2009-12-15 11:23 AM (#49728 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 400
I would suggest calling your dealer and putting in a warrenty claim so that Victory knows about it.
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SongFan
Posted 2009-12-15 11:32 AM (#49730 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 3204
Memphis
Wow.  I'll check mine before I leave work today.  Thanks for the info Ray.
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VisionTex
Posted 2009-12-15 11:34 AM (#49731 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx.
flint350, thanks for the heads up on this and glad you were able to get the bike under control.
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sunburstguitar
Posted 2009-12-15 11:52 AM (#49732 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 74
Winston-Salem, NC
Yes, thanks for the info.
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flint350
Posted 2009-12-15 12:00 PM (#49733 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md
Glad it was useful. I wouldn't want this to happen to someone else if I could prevent it. Especially if the circumstances are different and the outcome possibly more tragic. It's an easy thing to check at least.
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Candyman
Posted 2009-12-15 1:33 PM (#49736 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 204
West Knoxville TN
+1 on the warranty claim
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kevinx
Posted 2009-12-15 2:20 PM (#49741 - in reply to #49728)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators
IndyVision - 2009-12-15 12:23 PM

I would suggest calling your dealer and putting in a warrenty claim so that Victory knows about it.


They are reading about it here. Can't put in a claim on a fixed bike
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IndyVision
Posted 2009-12-15 3:51 PM (#49743 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 400
You can still submit a claim for a loose nut and have the dealer check it. Regardless, generating a claim for a potential emergency helps both Vision owners and Victory. Especially if everyone does since all claims are monitored for establishing recalls.
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varyder
Posted 2009-12-15 4:41 PM (#49744 - in reply to #49743)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
IndyVision - 2009-12-15 4:51 PM

You can still submit a claim for a loose nut and have the dealer check it. Regardless, generating a claim for a potential emergency helps both Vision owners and Victory. Especially if everyone does since all claims are monitored for establishing recalls.


+1 - a claim is a claim. It is up to the warranty people to determine if will be accepted or denied, even on the obvious. If this is an issue where it will happen even if it is not a worked on bike, at least it will generate a safety message to reaffirm the tighteness of this particular nut. It is also good to note that it is a good idea to check all fasteners at service intervals, but you all knew that already.

Thanks for let'n us know flint, I just rechecked mine this evening...it's tighter than a..., well, it's tight.

Edited by varyder 2009-12-15 4:43 PM
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kevinx
Posted 2009-12-15 5:20 PM (#49745 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators
Whatever....You guys have fun
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Teach
Posted 2009-12-15 5:42 PM (#49747 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 1436
Might be a better idea to just have folks on this site check their bike and report their findings. If it is a common occurance as indicated by owners checking then perhaps a dealer could report it to Victory.
I agree wth Kevinx that it probably isn't worth the warranty run around for a check we can do ourselves in 5 minutes or less. However if it is a COMMON problem as indicated by our personal checks, one or more of us should have our dealer report it to Victory. Might generate a bulletin to check it, for those riders who don't visit this site.
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WillieByte
Posted 2009-12-15 7:40 PM (#49753 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois

Victory knows about this issue.  Mine jammed open the day I rode my bike home the day I took delivery in April '08.  It scared the shit out of me.  I was only 15 miles from the dealer.  Being a dumbass, I rode it home.  When it jammed, I blipped open the throttle and it then would return.  The dealer didn't believe me when I told him; I was screwing around with the cruise control the first time it jammed and at the time blamed it on the cruise.

 The next day it jammed again.  This time it was at the curb in front of my house as I was returning home.  I'd shut the bike off to move my car so I could park the Vision in the garage.  When I restarted it, the throttle wouldn't close and it bounced off the rev limiter.  Actually, it won't be wide open in this case but even at 1/4 open throttle with the clutch disengaged the bike will rev limit.  This is when I finally had the presence of mind to troubleshoot the cause and fix it.

 I waited until the next time the Victory truck with the demo bikes visited the dealer and confronted the "engineer" point blank with the potential for stuck open throttle.  He told me that he'd never heard of it before and blamed the dealer.  I told him that this design has a safety factor of ONE (no redundancy) and is guaranteed to fail if the nut comes loose.  He told me that the nut on the front axle is also a single nut that can cause disaster if it comes loose.  This may be so but that nut is torqued much tighter and besides, you can see it.

 I debated turning the issue over to the NHTSA and hope for a recall.  I believe that all Victorys have this potential.  I elected not to loctite the nut as without washing with alcohol or using loctite primer, I wouldn't be certain that the loctite would hold; it doesn't work if there's oil on the threads for instance.  Instead, I used the end of a small tap to pric punch the thread near the end  so that even if the nut comes loose, it can't come off.  I also paint marked both nuts and the bracket so I can see if they loosen, I just check once in a while.

 I found it easy to tighten one nut against the other with a 10mm open end wrench and a 10mm ignition wrench.  My hands are too big to start the nut back on the threads and besides, the throttle really needs to be open so another pair of hands helps to get the nut started.  I held the throttle open and my son (with smaller hands) started the nut.

 The picture shows the throttle jammed open with the hex nut that came off the cable adjustment.  





(Jammed open throttle.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Jammed open throttle.jpg (63KB - 3 downloads)
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varyder
Posted 2009-12-15 9:01 PM (#49758 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
I'm glad both of you'n's didn't byte the dust. That's more serious than I thought. Two on the forum got it, I wonder how many others got hit that is not on the forum? Tink, tink, tink, are you listening Victory....?

BTW WB, you're engine looks like mine...are you going for the dirt test also?

Edited by varyder 2009-12-15 9:02 PM
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Lojak
Posted 2009-12-15 9:43 PM (#49761 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 255
New Brunswick , Canada
Wow , this could turn ugly if someone get hurt because of this...

Hope Victory is WATCHING this..very importent safety issue..

Guest for now it will be part of our routine check list...

Thanks for the heads up Flint350 and WillieByte....
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WillieByte
Posted 2009-12-16 6:14 AM (#49766 - in reply to #49758)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois

varyder - 2009-12-15 8:01 PM I'm glad both of you'n's didn't byte the dust. That's more serious than I thought. Two on the forum got it, I wonder how many others got hit that is not on the forum? Tink, tink, tink, are you listening Victory....? BTW WB, you're engine looks like mine...are you going for the dirt test also?

 Actually, the bike was only two days old when I took the picture.  The crummy photograph is my fault.  I was too close to the object with the camera and the flash screwed the picture up.

 I should add that the people that travel with the Victory demo truck are fine people, no doubt.  However (comma) they are in marketing roles.  When I told them the design has a safety factor of ONE it didn't ring any bells with them at all.  They told me the problem was caused by the dealer while he had my bike apart for customizing all the while telling me that he has superior mechanics working for him.  I was told that all assembly operations at spirit lake are checked twice.   I told them, "Uh huh Bubba, and I just paid cash for one of yer motorcycles and put a ton of add-ons into it and yer blaming yer dealer on a crummy design".  

 I was very contentious that day.  PISSED OFF from the response from Victory.  That was the day I met Travlin Man and was in such a crummy mood that I'm afraid I didn't make much of an impression with him. 

 It's all history now.  I think Victory owes me an apology but it appears they aren't planning on changing their cheap assed design.

 Merry Christmas.  <----   if that offends anyone off they can KMA

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freezeradio
Posted 2009-12-16 7:20 AM (#49768 - in reply to #49766)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 96
Oswego,, Illinois,USA
That Does Seem like a weak link,Needs attention,I will keen an eye on this part now.Maby a RECALL is what they need to do .Alot of riders won't be able to find this part,Like me.I will have to read book and explore.Now I'm a little ticked off that Victory would not address this problem.Although I have seen other manufacturers stand by and do nothing until a death has occered. I think on this day ,noone wants extra costs. Like a RECALL.Hope it don't happen to me .Lawyers will get -er -done !!!!
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Mudge
Posted 2009-12-16 10:16 AM (#49770 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago.
Would it be possible to unscrew the ring nut, slide it over the cable as in WillieByte's picture where it happened unintentionly, then twist a split lockwasher open enough to slide it over the cable through the split, then slide it up over the threaded part and put the ring nut back on? Sounds like it's pretty hard to get at though. It's 9 degrees in my garage right now, so I ain't going out to look, but I will before spring. I can't believe it didn't come with at least a lockwasher for the ring nuts on both sides of the mounting flange.

Edited by Mudge 2009-12-16 10:21 AM
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Tarpits99
Posted 2009-12-16 10:56 AM (#49772 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Iron Butt

Posts: 742
North Orange County CA
I can't tell from the pictures, but if the bracket is threaded and there are no lock-washers shouldn't both nuts be on the same (cable side) of the bracket?

This looks like an assembly error.
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Gadget
Posted 2009-12-16 11:27 AM (#49777 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 146
Looks like the cable slips up into the bracket so you are probably supposed to tighten both nuts against each side of the bracket.....but you're right.....I don't see why two lock warshers couldn't be added (one to each side)???
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WillieByte
Posted 2009-12-16 1:30 PM (#49785 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois
The bracket isn't threaded. If it was, only one nut would be required to lock the adjuster and that nut could be on the right hand end. It's no assembly error. If I were you, I wouldn't use lockwashers. It's difficult to get 2 wrenches in there to adjust and tighten as it is. Look at your own bike. Look at the diagram on Polaris parts. My bike is typical.

Three Ho's
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WillieByte
Posted 2009-12-16 2:29 PM (#49790 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois
Oops.... the parts in question aren't listed on Polaris's parts page. I can't find reference to them in the maintenance manual either. The reason I believe that this set-up is typical is because I was told so by my dealer and his mechanic.
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radioteacher
Posted 2009-12-21 4:24 PM (#50045 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX
I will check my cable before I leave work today. Thanks.
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victoryvisiontour
Posted 2009-12-21 6:12 PM (#50048 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Iron Butt

Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis)
Flint350,

Thanks for posting this potentially dangerous situation.

Immediately after reading this thread I put a tie-strap on the throttle housing to keep the nut from coming completely off. I used a center punch on the last thread for extra security. Nuts were tight.



(Trottle fix.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments Trottle fix.JPG (59KB - 3 downloads)
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varyder
Posted 2009-12-21 7:44 PM (#50054 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
honest officer, the reason I was doing over 100mph is a known issue with this bike that causes the throttle to run away.
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B10VVRider
Posted 2009-12-22 7:41 PM (#50085 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 12
flint350 - 2009-12-15 11:59 AM

I went for a brief ride yesterday since the temps got near 50 degrees and had an unfortunate incident that might be of general interest.? While going about 40 MPH and about 2 miles from home, my Vision suddenly went to wide open throttle on its own.? Not knowing what had happened, my instincts were still good and I had quickly pulled the clutch to avoid colliding with the car in front of me.? However, the engine was screaming at over 5500 RPM and I had to use the fuel cutoff switch to regain control, as I got off the road with a very narrow shoulder.? After getting my breath and heart rate back, I tried a re-start and the engine immediately went to full throttle again.? At first, I thought it might be a problem with the newly installed fuel controller from the recent cam upgrade.? However, this was not the case - the throttle cable nut had backed off and was dangling on the cable.? I spoke with KevinX who said that he had seen a few other incidents like this recently.? Kevin suggested applying some lock tite to the nut.? I assume the nut is backing off due to vibration, though my Vision runs fine - no excess vibration noted over 9000 miles. ?

I am attaching a couple of photos of the area behind the right cheese wedge where the cable is located.? The photos are the same view, just a bit closer and with a red arrow to indicate which nut (the rearward one) backed off.? Since Kevin has seen this on other Visions, I thought some may want to know about this and possibly check their bikes for loose connections.? No, I won't say check the bike for 'loose nuts', knowing what the comments will be? ? Hope this is of some use/interest.

?

?



I'm thinking Victory definitely needs to be made aware of this in writing. This is a potential life safety issue that could result in future deaths. Imagine approaching a red light at a busy intersection and suddenly, without warning, going into full throttle mode. Me thinks a recall may be in order here.
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varyder
Posted 2009-12-22 8:30 PM (#50090 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
can we dub these the Harley nuts since they seem to be the only ones that vibrate loose...?

seriously though, an inspection and tightening of them IF they are loose should solve the issue immediately. The design is positive pressure from both sides if tight and they should never vibrate loose. They would have to be loose to start with for the lower one to run itself off and cause the issue. For your own sanity though, a touch of loctite should give you piece of mind.
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Mudge
Posted 2009-12-22 9:42 PM (#50096 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago.
"Harley Nuts".... Now that's funny. I suspect a great potential for that to stick.
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Mudge
Posted 2009-12-22 9:43 PM (#50098 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago.
.

Edited by Mudge 2009-12-22 9:44 PM
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jgn281
Posted 2011-10-31 8:41 AM (#100348 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 73
Sullivan, IN United States
Loctite makes a med strength thread locker. Looks like a good place for a drop. OBTW where is the "fuel shutoff switch"?
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dan camarco
Posted 2011-10-31 9:36 AM (#100350 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 206
Lumber Bridge, NC United States
jgn281 the red switch near your start button I am sure you have used this before. (the KILL switch)
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Brian G
Posted 2011-10-31 9:45 AM (#100351 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 161
Oregon.
Honest officer this is a known issue....LMAO. I went out and checked the cable on my bike, no problem showing yet. Still tight. Hmmmm, wonder if Victory will do a recall on this? Seems like an easy enough fix.

Edited by Brian G 2011-10-31 9:56 AM
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jgn281
Posted 2011-10-31 11:00 AM (#100362 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Cruiser

Posts: 73
Sullivan, IN United States
yeah, right after I posted this question I figured that was it. I just never called it a fuel shutoff switch. Well, not too bad for a Monday. thanks.
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johnnyvision
Posted 2011-10-31 11:35 AM (#100365 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 4278
If you ever have read your manual on page 35 of the 08 manual says report safety defects to NHTSA there is phone number and address so if you feel there should be something done call them.

As far as your nut goes I wonder if it was threaded wrong or striped when it was first tightened at the factory.
Its very nice to have Kevinx around to help us. Thanks Kevinx for being one of the good guys
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g1nomad
Posted 2011-10-31 1:39 PM (#100377 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton
Wow, such an old post. I never saw, and I am so glad it got bumped to the front again.
Thanks not only for the heads up, but the pictures. I know right where to look now.
You got to love the internet.

Herb
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big daddy
Posted 2011-11-08 8:59 AM (#101000 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 7
if you add anything to your victory other than factory you will void the warrenty
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Boots
Posted 2011-11-08 9:46 AM (#101003 - in reply to #101000)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 599
New Mexico
big daddy - 2011-11-08 7:59 AM

if you add anything to your victory other than factory you will void the warrenty


100% false



Edited by Boots 2011-11-08 9:50 AM
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kevinx
Posted 2011-11-08 10:22 AM (#101009 - in reply to #101003)
Subject: RE: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators
Boots - 2011-11-08 10:46 AM

big daddy - 2011-11-08 7:59 AM

if you add anything to your victory other than factory you will void the warrenty


100% false



More like 60% false. The first year is the only portion that falls under the MM Act. After that it is a insurance policy, and exceptions based on modifications are clearly spelled out.
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Boots
Posted 2011-11-08 10:50 AM (#101012 - in reply to #101003)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Tourer

Posts: 599
New Mexico
I was more referring to the direct confrontational wording of his statement. "If you add anything..." is just wrong, and is an unfair attack on Victory.
Using non-factory but industry accepted oil, filters, tires, brake pads, etc has no impact on the warranty, where as adding some electrical components for example could.


Edited by Boots 2011-11-08 10:55 AM
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kevinx
Posted 2011-11-08 11:40 AM (#101019 - in reply to #101012)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Visionary

Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators
Boots - 2011-11-08 11:50 AM

I was more referring to the direct confrontational wording of his statement. "If you add anything..." is just wrong, and is an unfair attack on Victory.
Using non-factory but industry accepted oil, filters, tires, brake pads, etc has no impact on the warranty, where as adding some electrical components for example could.


Gotcha, and in that case you are 100% correct
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Tarpits99
Posted 2011-11-08 12:01 PM (#101025 - in reply to #49727)
Subject: Re: Accidental Wide Open Throttle on Vision


Iron Butt

Posts: 742
North Orange County CA
Irrespective of any legal arguments, a warranty or service contract is of no value to anyone that is dead or injured.

This is a simple fix that might prevent some of us from wasting any more of our "9 lives" than those that we have already squandered yelling "hey y'all watch this"!

The thought of having to contend with a stuck throttle in traffic, with the added distraction of the wife slapping me on the helmet, and screaming is blood chilling.

Preventative maintenance, it's a no brainer.

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