Charbin, KansasGuardsman, or anyone else in the know,

I'd like to load up on the LEDs available at http://www.v-leds.com/ (front and rear) and have a blinker question. 

It looks like there are two options: load resistors http://www.v-leds.com/LED-Load-Resistors/c122488-1-3/ 

                                              or LED flashers http://www.v-leds.com/Electronic-LED-Flashers/c122487-1-3/

My pea brain says that swapping out the stock relay for an LED flasher would be the easiest with no tapping/splicing involved.  My experience with the Vision says that all is not as it seems and I'd have to go with the resistors.  I'm not afraid of using the resistors but if I don't have to, don't want to.  (I'm not using the Kuryakin 4710 since I have the Muth LED mirrors.)

My question is:  Exactly what do I need to make this conversion? 

Once I get this all set up I will feel a lot more confident in the sequential LED mod later on.  Thanks.

Well....I'm possibly not "in the know"....but I stood next to a know-it-all the other day, which possibly may put me "in the know"

But anyways...would the MBW4807 from this place work? http://www.customdynamics.com/loadequalizer.htm

Thanks for the response KG.

V-LEDS just came out with a 92 LED bulb for $70/pair.  After doing some homework on LEDs and reading the V-LEDS FAQ  ( http://www.v-leds.com/page/faq.html ) I'm going to go with colored bulbs.  6 reds in the rear and 4 ambers in the front. 

http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior-LED/Brake-Light-LED/Red-LED/V-LEDS-RED-92-M-SMT-TAILBRAKE-p7470633-1-2.html 

http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior-LED/Parking-Light-LED/Amber-LED/V-LEDS-AMBER-92-M-SMT-p7470676-1-2.html

I'll hold off on the load equalizers until I see if I need them.  Can't believe there is no flasher relay.  My plan is to change out half of the rears and half of the fronts and compare the LEDs to stock side-by-side.  I'll try to take some good pics and maybe a short YouTube video for comparison.  $350 conversion but could be pretty spectacular.

Thanks again.

Luckily V-LEDS is out of the red & amber 92s right now so I have an extra payday to save up. 

Lotzafun - That load equalizer for Custom Dynamics looks like what I'd need but I'll have to look at the wiring diagram again to verify the wire colors. 

I like Custom Dynamics and have ordered a 99 LED/39.4 " long red Stingerz to mount under the trunk lip as a third brake light.  The LEDs will extend a couple of inches past the running lights.  The Stingerz have three sides of the 3M VHB tape already attached so I would peel off the top and the back for a really secure fit.  http://www.customdynamics.com/Images/99-led-stingerz-laying-in-a.jpg  39.4" brake light on the trunk.

I also ordered two of the 21 LED Night Rider light bars.  I plan on peeling off the red reflectors under the saddlebag lids and mounting the Night Riders to come on as side running lights.  They are designed to be used as brake lights but I'd just use the "running" function and not worry about the brake wire.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTG3-jglQbM  This will be the most outrageous mod visually.  I figure if people are going to be slack-jawed while staring at the bike anyway I might as well go hollywood on them.  I thought the original KITT was the coolest car ever and would like to give some kids today that same kind of memory. 

The neat thing about these mods is the bike will still look basically stock when parked.  I have the Muth mirrors (which I love), the LEDs in the turn signals/running lights will be invisible, the Stingerz brake light will be tucked up in the gap on the trunk lid and the Night Riders will tuck up under the saddlebags.  I'm really excited about the 39" brake light.  I want the guy behind me to say "Holy ****!" and if everything is LED, that instant "pop" should be impressive.

Will do Jim.  Just got an e-mail from Custom Dynamics that the lights have shipped.  I'm going to wait until V-LEDS has the red and yellow 92 LED bulbs in before making any changes.  I only want to take bike apart once to do this stuff. 

I'm pretty fearless when it comes to tapping into existing wiring but I know my limits when it comes to soldering in diodes and stuff.  The 39" brake light is just going to be two wires running out of the trunk down to the main wire bundle running to the tail.  I'll tap into the brake wire and a ground wire, that's it.  All of the other bulbs are just a straight swap out.

KansasGuardsman has a great write-up on this stuff here:  http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=2509&posts=1&start=1

I think this is a pretty popular topic so will try to document the good/bad/ugly as much as possible.  Will let you know here when I've got everything in place to start.

Just got an update from V-LEDS.  The next batch of red 92's are due in tomorrow and the ambers are due in two weeks.

Tom,

Did you get the 92 LED clusters yet?  If so, do they fit?  Are they brighter (low and high) than the stock 3157 bulbs?

I looked at the dimensions on these and they are longer and larger in diameter than the other LED clusters.

I would like to get some current back on my charging system.  I read KansasGuardsman very informative post the LED conversion.  He stated getting collectively @ 7amps back figuring 9 watts/incandescent bulb.  I ran the numbers for both low and high settings based on incandescent 3157 bulb specs I found on the web.  I realized that KG's numbers were for the low settings.  You should get even more back when the bulbs are on high (e.g. when turns or brakes are on).  The incondescent 3157s run around 26 watts high and 8 watts low.

Please keep us posted on the 92 LED cluster fit and function.

Thanks,

Tim

V-LEDs has the amber 92s in stock, still waiting on the reds.  I e-mailed them and told them I had a $350 order ready to go as soon as they came in.  They apologized for the delay and said it should be next week sometime.  You'll know about it here as soon as I place the order.

Tom,

I just measured the diameter of the front turn signal bulb base with a calipers.  It is 1.030" in diameter.  I was able to stick my finger all the way into the lens hole without touching the front lens.

From their diagram and finger test, it looks like lens depth will be no problem for the front, but the depth behind the lens needed to install/remove them maybe tight.

Also, from their diagram, the diameter will just fit if there are no irregularities in the either the lens hole or the array casing (1.300 " == 26.162 mm).

Sincerely,

Tim

Thanks Tim.  I didn't even think to look behind the lenses for clearance to install them in the first place. 

I looked inside to see if there was enough depth for all those LEDs and it looks plenty deep.  As far as width goes, how wide is the glass on a stock bulb compared to the 92s?  I couldn't imagine them making the LEDs wider than a glass bulb but that's just me being blissful in my ignorance. 

I'm gonna go ahead and order the full boat with all 10 LEDs but just use one bulb for a trial fit, front and back.  If it doesn't fit I'll just send back the unopened ones and go to Plan B.  Since I'm losing my mind over this anyway I'm going to go ahead and order these red Hi Power bulbs for the trunk running lights.  http://www.v-leds.com/Exterior-LED/Brake-Light-LED/Red-LED/V-LEDS-RED-14-M-SMT-5W-p5746570-1-2.html

To be honest, I'm keeping my expectations realistic.  Even though I hope all these LEDs will be brighter, it won't surprise me if it is not that much different.  I'm probably not going to mess with a load equalizer so if/when the new bulbs flash faster, I'll just leave them that way.  Even if the brightness is a tie, I still gain the newly available amps/watts.  Stand by for news.....

...  I didn't even think to look behind the lenses for clearance to install them in the first place. .....

You, my friend, have obviously never tired to replace the H4 headlight bulbs on the Vision, else the preceding clearance issue would be an obvious concern !!!

I threw the calipers on the stock incandescent 3157 and it measures 0.987 " in diameter.

I have a pair of 27 SMT LED 3157 bulbs and they measures 7/8 " in diameter so there are some variances in both diameter and length of the 3157 bulbs.

BTW, I just made my tour pack lights Turn and Brake lights over the weekend.  The tour pack only has 1 hot for both lights, needed to add a second hot to separately control them.

I am waiting for an LED order to arrive so that I can then make them Running, Turn and Brake.  I have the wiring circuits already made, just need the LEDs.  The circuit will allow just 3 wires (ground and 2 hots) to run the LEDs as medium brightness running lights, and then go completely on and off when used as turn lights (versus medium/high, it will go off/high).

Too bad CustomDynamics doesn't make that 99 Stingerz LED array with 3 hots and a ground.  That would be a wicked running, turn, stop light array.

Sincerely,

Tim

Tim,

Based on the LED diagram above, the bulb width should be fine.  The 25mm width on the LED is 0.984 inches so it is basically the same as the glass bulb you measured.  I just went out and looked at the front amber lenses and the outboard ones should be no problem.  The inner ones will be interesting.  I'm thinking I may have to lay the bulbs on their backs and try to get them in the holes from below.  Will have to be really careful with those diodes sticking out all over the place though. 

You are right about the headlight bulbs.  I took the air cleaner out and reached up there to try and get a feel for what I could reach and after about 5 minutes, backed out and buttoned it back up.  When I finally blow a headlight bulb i'm going to pull the whole headlight assy and install HIDs.  I'll be PM-ing you about ballast locations since you've been down that road already.

I have boutht extra ones to play with.  I have not been able to get them apart without breaking them.  I have also tried various options when them.  A brighter incondescent bulb melts the lens because it is too shallow.

I have also contacted an aftermarket company to see if they are willing to replicate the OEM Trunk lenses with complete LED arrays that spans the entire width of the lens in leu of just the center incondescent bulb.  This should allow the entire lens to be light up, not just the middle backwards or the middle forwards or just the middle depending on the viewing angle.  I am still waiting for a reply from them.

With a bright enough LED array in the lens, then they can be turned into proper running, turn, brake lights that work both at night and during the day.

Sincerely,

Tim

Lotsafun,

There was a time about a year ago that I thought about sending my tail light unit off to these guys and having them build a custom made V-shaped LED board and mount it behind the red lenses.  http://www.customled.com/custom_work/custom_work.htm  I wanted the entire V to act as a running/brake light and if I turned on a turn signal, that whole side of the V would go dark and then fill in from bottom to top like a reverse, ultra-sequential waterfall. 

Two things derailed my plan.  The complexity of the tail light wiring in general (I didn't think I could describe it adequately to the engineers at customled) and the lens assembly.  It is pretty much fused together and even if I got it apart I didn't think I could ever get it back together and be totally weatherproof again.  I know there are some pretty good epoxies out there but after thinking about it for a long time the words of Clint spoke to me very clearly;  "A man's got to know his limitations." 

Good luck with your project, whatever it is.

The amber 92 LED 3157's came in today.

I will be be test fitting them tomorrow when I get my Vision back from the shop.

Hope they are at least as bright as the stock bulbs.  Can sure use the extra amperage back.

Tim

Mark,

Take a look at my gallery and you will see some of my lighting.

http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/photos/photo-thumbnails.asp?albumid=56

Yes, it is a Kruzer Kaddy that I had to mill out the mounting from a round mounting to a square mounting.  I used a piece of a wide leather belt between the mounting and the clamp to keep it from cutting the plastic.

Also, I removed the speaker shrouds from the front of my bike when I installed deeper speakers, thus I may have more clearance room for the center amber running lights than most folks.  The shrouds take up a lot of room.

I should know tomorrow if they fit and if they are as bright as the stock front lights.

I am using stock lenses (amber in front, red in back).

Sincerely,

Tim

Hey Tim,

Itchin to pull the trigger on the amber 92s and get the reds later.  How's the fit?

You and me both. 

I called my wrench to pick up my bike on Saturday (new Barnett Scoripion Clutch) and he wanted to keep it over the weekend and follow up with Barnett on Monday.  Being such, I still do not have my Vision back yet.  I should get it back tomorrow if the meeting with Barnett pans out OK.

Sincerely,

Tim

Hi Tom,

I just got the bike home from the wrench.  I just installed a new  7-JuRock Vision windshield for the winter.  My old stock one is scratched up so I will try to polish it out by time spring comes.  The new one is 1.5-2" taller and 4 inches wider at the top.  It does not appear to have any distortions around the edges while driving in the dark.  The wider top will be good for the colder winter months and for the Mrs. on the back.  I have to use it in the daytime to see how it is in the sun.

As for the amber 92 LED bulbs.  The easily fit in the front turn signals.  The trick to get them to fit is to get the harness lower than the lens, start feeding the font edge of the bulb into the lens hole and then lift the back of the harness while inserting.  There is not enough clearance to put them straight in or top down, but there is by tilting bottom up.

The center bulbs fit as well for me since I have removed the speaker shrouds.  I used the same tilt up method of insertion.  If you have the speaker shrouds in, you may have to pull part of the lens to make enough clearance to fit the front running lights in.

As for brightness.  The 92LED bulbs have really tiny LEDs in them, thus their balls of light are smaller than the stock bulbs. They cast a more yellow light than stock which are more amber.  The stock bulbs tend to make wider lines of light in the reflector creases where the 92 LED bulbs make a bunch of narrower lines and dots depending on the viewing angle.  As far as brightness is concerned, I would give the edge to the stock bulbs over these amber 92 LED bulbs, but not by much.  I am going to keep them to regain some of the drain on the charging system.

They make the turn indicator blink twice as fast, which I don't mind.  Funny thing, if you put the turn signal on when the key is in the ACC position, the turn signals flash at their normal speed.  If you have the key in the running position, they flash twice as fast, go figure ???

The stock incandescent bulbs appear to have a little more separation between low and high, but not much.  Again, I think I am going to keep them for the charging system savings.  If I want to make a more dramatic difference on the turn signals, I can rewire my bike's signals to switch from DIM/BRIGHT to OFF/BRIGHT.  This is what I am doing in the tour pack.

These are my initial observations.  I will post more when I have some more time to work on it.  I will also measure the amperage draw of each of the bulbs compared to the stock bulbs to validate the publish specs and amperage draw savings.

HTH,

Tim

Thanks for the update Tim. 

I'm glad they fit ok.  I had a feeling about the install from below the opening.  I'll probably make the switch to save the amps and the longlife of LEDs in general.  I notice an obvious difference between how quickly my new 99 LED brake light comes on compared to the stock bulbs in the "V" taillight.  I'll probably hold off until after the the holiday crunch to make the switch, especially since the reds are taking forever to come in. 

I've thought long and hard about the flash rate and will probably go with a load equalizer.  Even though I give up the amp savings, it will only be when the turn signals are on.  99% of the time I'll still save amps.  Even though the faster flash rate may be more eye catching, it just makes me think something's not right.  It bugs me when I see a car or motorcycle going down the road with fast blinker.  I think "I'm glad I'm not on the other end of that guy with a burned out turn signal."  I really like the stock flash rate on the new cars equipped with LEDs.  I think your plan to change from DIM/BRIGHT to OFF/BRIGHT is definitely the way to go with max contrast.  I'll be picking your brain on how to do that later.

Man314,

I see you are from Spirit Lake, IA.  Can you do us all favor and drive over to the Victory Plant and ask them to make a BRIGHT OEM Strop/Turn/Hazard/Running Light LED Trunk Lens replacement kit tfor the Vision hat is illuminated the entire width of the replacement lens?  It is really hard to get in contact with anyone over there.

I see the 2010 Cross Roads and Croos Country are now using LEDs versus incondescent bulbs.  They should make a retro-fit kit for the Vision.

I have not pulled the back apart yet to see if they fit and I do not have the red 92 bulbs yet either.

Sincerely,

Tim

I haven't bought any 92's yet.  I'm going to wait until they are all in so I can do it all at once.  Most likely after the holiday madness subsides. 

I've bought some nice stuff off of a couple of guys on the forum over the last couple of weeks.  Also have the Clearwaters on my short term radar.  Two years of living with a fairly stock looking bike and now I'm making up for lost time.

KG,

Thanks for the advice on just flipping the bulbs.  I was wondering how Tim was going to re-wire the turn signals to go OFF/HIGH instead of LOW/HIGH.  All of the high end cars/suv's that have LED's are much more noticable with the OFF/HIGH turn signals. 

When I put the 92LEDs in backwards, they do not work at all.  I believe LEDs are polar by nature.  If you reverse the leads, they don't light up.  This has been the experience I have had will all of my other LED bulbs, strips and individual LEDs that I have played with so far.

Sincerely,

Tim

Man314 - 2010-01-28 5:58 PM Good news! Although the 92's are almost twice as tall as the 3157's in the tail lamp, they do have plenty of clearance. I'll try to get them in tomorrow to see how much brighter thay are.

Try them in just 1 side so you can do an A/B comparison to the stock incandescent and let us know how they work.

When I did the amber fronts, they made the lens a tad bit whiter (less amber) and were not quite as bright as stock.

Glad to see you finally got them.  Also, tell us how much of a pain it is to replace the rear bulbs.  I have yet to try that yet.

Tim

Man314 - 2010-02-07 8:17 PM My Amber and Red 92 LED's came in. .

Can you post the before/after A/B pictures of the rear tail-light lens?  Are the red 92-LEDs brighter than the stock incandescent bulbs in the rear tail light?

Thanks,

Tim

Are the RED 92 LED's brighter than the stock incondescent?

Also, how long did it take to swap out the rear-tail-light LEDs (dissasemble and reassemble)?

Thanks,

Tim

Thanks for the picts.  I checked the site, and they are out of stock again on the 92-reds.

Sincerely,

Tim

That would be me...

I was past the one year factory (Polaris) warranty; it was the extended-warranty company (not Polaristar) that denied my claim. 

I did not even get to talk with the adjuster; he came to the dealership, took pics of my five blinker LEDs attached to each of the rear-view mirror housings, and denied the claim.  Any bonehead can check the schematic and see that the green (N) is strictly driven from an isolated wire coming up from the transmission.  The blinker system is totally independent - and still works fine.  Not to mention that the green (N) went out long before I added those LEDs.

This was merely an excuse for "the man" to deny an $800 (plus installation cost) claim.

Did you ever get yours replaced?