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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | I noticed that the left saddlebag cover didn't close completely flush, like the right side did. So, since I have had it only a couple on months, I took my Vision over to my Dealer, and showed them. The Service Manager said, "I'll call Victory, and let you know what I find out." Well, I just got off the phone with him a little while ago, and he informed my that the Victory rep basically said to him that "this is a known issue that we had on those models, and we aren't replacing the plastic cover". The Manager told me that he laughed at the Rep, and is contacting another person that he knows, a little higher up, and hopefully can get this taken care of.
I had a similer push back when I was having gas cap, and gas tank issues.
Now here is my point. How can I recommend, and purchase again myself, from an American company whose attitude is, "We know that we have fit and finish, quality issues, but that's just the way it goes. We'll fix it with the next production line. Thanks for buying our product." Unbelievable. And it makes the Dealers have to work too hard, just for basic Customer Service. Why would they want to carry Victory, if the Company doesn't stand behind their product?
Love the style and ride, but come on, in this day and age, there is just too much competition out there. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| I hear you. But there is a fix. Can't remember if it was on here or the vog.net but it seemed pretty easy to do. Good luck. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Montreal, QC Canada | This has been discussed in great detail on this site. One fix is to remove the hings bolts that attach to the body of the bike and add washers. Another I just heard about is the 09's and 10's have a different hinge, where the bolts go in on the hinge it's oval not round so you can adjust the position of the cover. Hope this helps. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 205
| My left side bag does not close cleanly and tight up against the seat (most front part of the saddle bag door point). The right side is nice and flush, the left...eh--about an inch gap. I did see the info about the bags and the mod, but that did not address my issue. It reads as if that is the issue the OP has too.
Did I miss something? The mod I saw before had to do with minimizing the overall gap between the saddle bag door and the fixed part. Anyone fixed the gap issue I am talking about? Or are they the same?
My dealer also said.."Thats the way it is".... I did not push it, but I agree it is wrong. Of course, what can you do? I still love the bike, and if that turns out to be the biggest issue, I feel like I hit a home-run. Can you imagine the non-sense that goes on with the "other" bikes. We may be better off... But quality control is still very important. Victory should fix it. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | iluvink - 2009-09-18 1:09 PM
I noticed that the left saddlebag cover didn't close completely flush, like the right side did. So, since I have had it only a couple on months, I took my Vision over to my Dealer, and showed them. The Service Manager said, "I'll call Victory, and let you know what I find out." Well, I just got off the phone with him a little while ago, and he informed my that the Victory rep basically said to him that "this is a known issue that we had on those models, and we aren't replacing the plastic cover". The Manager told me that he laughed at the Rep, and is contacting another person that he knows, a little higher up, and hopefully can get this taken care of.
I had a similer push back when I was having gas cap, and gas tank issues.
Now here is my point. How can I recommend, and purchase again myself, from an American company whose attitude is, "We know that we have fit and finish, quality issues, but that's just the way it goes. We'll fix it with the next production line. Thanks for buying our product." Unbelievable. And it makes the Dealers have to work too hard, just for basic Customer Service. Why would they want to carry Victory, if the Company doesn't stand behind their product?
Love the style and ride, but come on, in this day and age, there is just too much competition out there.
So you have an 08 Vision and don't like the cover fit on the bags especially the left one. And you said it does not fit completely flush, can you explain what it is to fit flush with. Are you saying the gap between the cover and the bike is too big? First of all, I've seen many 08 Visions and have not seen one yet that the cover fits tight to the bag so there is no gap. I'm wondering why you did not ask the dealer when you bought the bike it is somethng you can't miss. Also, I have constantly hear of Service Managers contantly telling customers the "Company" just won't do anything. Then on another post on simliar problems, the problem is taken care of just like it should. It is all about the dealer some don't believe they are the company, this is not HD. Now your dealer might be a Victory only dealer, but I doubt it, as he has sold you a 08 Vision a couple of months before the 10s hit the floor. So I figure he is a multi-brand dealer, and the other brand sells more. And the other brand maybe the favorite...it happened to me, my service manager was replaced a few months back, new guy is better in helping. If you don't like the bike, sell it, but you bought it for some reason. If you really don't like Victory because you don't think they help, then sell the bike. But if you like the bike, change dealers...find one that will help.
Good luck with your ride. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Here are pics of my bag alignment difference. Is this an issue for anyone else. Mine is an 09 TP
(Left side saddle bag 2.JPG)
(Left side saddle bag.JPG)
(R side saddle bag.JPG)
(Right side saddle bag 2.JPG)
Attachments
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 Left side saddle bag 2.JPG (34KB - 0 downloads)
Left side saddle bag.JPG (44KB - 0 downloads)
R side saddle bag.JPG (47KB - 0 downloads)
Right side saddle bag 2.JPG (44KB - 0 downloads)
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | Yes, somewhere on this site (I'm looking for it now) is a post or an article on adjusting the alignment of the hardbags. It was pretty straightforward and worked well. I know a different procedure was also covered in an article by Neil Foreman on this site: http://www.vision-riders.com/articles.asp?article=16674 | |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | Thomas - This has been an issue for a long time. Your alignment issue appears a little different than most of what others have experienced. That being said, maybe the fix that Blackjack has and done in a utube video by RadioTeacher can help. As mentioned there have been other reported fixes, but this was the one I found effective. Hope it helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFs0AL3z2vs | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Well, I was aware of those. They don't seem to adjust my issue. My alignment in the back is fine. It is the front! I need to "tweak" it somehow.. does anyone else have this? | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | Both my saddlebags fit the same... Loose. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Ok, so I vented just a bit. I trust my Dealer and the Service Manager, they are straight shooters. And I still enjoy, and will enjoy, my bike. I just don't get the fit and finish issues, and a response like that from Victory. Perhaps this is just some growing pains for a motorcycle manufacturer that is just over a decade old. I'll just keep hangin' in.
Edited by iluvink 2009-09-18 10:38 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | The front of your right side bag cover fits better then any bag I have seen on a Vision. You left side bag fits about normal for most any Vision I have seen.
Both my left and right look like your left side gap. When I sit on the the Vision the seat get pushed around a bit and closes the gap in the front of the bag some.
To put it a different way. My fat butt smushes the seat flat....squriting it out to the sides.
This gap might be needed to keep the bags from wearing on the seat.
Ride Safe! | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Montreal, QC Canada | Radioteacher, there's just so many funny things I could say right now. I'm sure you can see my grin from there!
I'll let your imagination do the rest.
Ken | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| My question did you research the bike BEFORE you bought? If you did then you would know that this was a problem before hand. It would have been so easy to say to the salesman, I know about the saddlebag alignment problem on the '08s would you throw in the hinges from an '09? Or you know of the problem and give a little more off on the price. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | The fit you have on your bag lids looks pretty normal. The lids are made out of ABS plastic and it is the lightest weight plastic that has strenght that Victory could use. Also, it is the styling, anytime you take a large piece of plastic that long with one outer edge fasteners your going to have gaps. I have thought about modifying the seat so the lid could close further, but I ride too much, so I just ride. In fact that is what I'm going to do right now! Bye! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | iluvink - 2009-09-18 11:23 PM Ok, so I vented just a bit. I trust my Dealer and the Service Manager, they are straight shooters. And I still enjoy, and will enjoy, my bike. I just don't get the fit and finish issues, and a response like that from Victory. Perhaps this is just some growing pains for a motorcycle manufacturer that is just over a decade old. I'll just keep hangin' in. I've come to accept that this is NORMAL for the Vision. I was looking at a new '09 on the showroom to compare my fit and finish "problem" and it was identical to what I have. So my question really is, when I sit on the bike there is no gap so what is my concern?. I'd rather sit on my bike than stand back and find flaws. My bike does exactly what I want it to do, ride, and ride comfortably, and it does like no other bike on the planet. So as a kindly suggestion, don't worry with all that small stuff, it will drive you nuts. Just enjoy...
Edited by varyder 2009-09-19 7:52 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | iluink... I agree with radioteacher... I wonder if its really your RIGHT side is TOO close and maybe a washer is missing or something. As he also mentioned the seat moves out a little, you wouldn't want the seat putting pressure on the pointing point. I know it certainly looks nicer with a tight fit like that, but I'd look closely to see if maybe that's actually not doing to create a problem later. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 125
Kerrville Texas ( now a homeowner on six acres) | I am with radioteach!! My fat butt squeshis the seat much farther out than his. In fact, I have been thinking about getting some kind of "bucket " to fit on my seat to hold mine.
Smadge | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 205
| whoa---folks, you are referring to my pics, but this is not my post!
I am very very happy with my Vision and Victory. I hope to buy more, and feel like an ambassador for the company everywhere I go!
I posted the pics because the alignment fixes out there did not address my issue. The original OP is the one who is more concerned with Victory as a whole.
Read his post up at the top... it is not me! hahahaa
What we have here...is failure..to communicate...
BUY VICTORY!!!!!
Edited by Mfoster 2009-09-19 2:04 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | Mfoster... either way... no matter who's pics of which bike.. I'mma justa say'n... While the "tight fit" looks great when looking at the bike... that might be a concern when riding it. I don't know which is "right" or "correct"...
I totally agree with the poster... that... fit and finish should be a concern..
Now... Having been to the factory... and seeing the checklists and the hand assembly and the scrutiny these bikes go through... and not "one out of 10" or whatever.. but without going into detail... there are a LOT of eyes on EVERY bike throughout the process... I really wonder where the breakdown is. It's not like these bikes are "mass produced" where there are 1000's or even 100's of bikes screaming down line with people frantically throwing parts at them. In fact it's a very organized, work until it's right, type of line with all sorts of tech and non-tech assists to ensure things are done right, checked and rechecked...
I can now see the frustration of the people at the factory I have talked to when they read about these kinds of issues. Ok.. obviously no one is perfect... that's a given... And I guess when you make lets say 5000 bikes.... even if the error rate is only 1%... That's 50 bikes!!!!
Now to the author of this thread.... in this case it's a little different. "The Service Manager said, .. the Victory rep basically said to him that "this is a known issue that we had on those models, and we aren't replacing the plastic cover".
What that really means is... "why did you sell a bike that needed a part replaced and not get it replaced before you sold the bike". Lets face it.. .the Dealers BUY these bikes to resell. The Dealer should have complained about the bad fit WHEN the RECEIVED the bike.
So it comes down to if the Dealer is willing to fix HIS mistake and if he can convince Victory to give him credit for the part he's gonna have to buy or use.
Is this right or wrong... I don't know... But I've been watching this scenario play out nearly 10 years... over and over...
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | As far as what is wrong, it's the back of the left side saddlebag, bothers me the most. The relationship to the seat on the front really isn't a big deal. It's just when you look from the back, the lines on the left are off a bit, and you can see just a little of the "honeycomb" underneath, where the bag meet the bike.
Again, I really enjoy the bike and the ride, and if, ‘nothing is to be done' is the final answer, I'll live.
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | DesertJim - 2009-09-18 5:03 PM
Thomas - This has been an issue for a long time. Your alignment issue appears a little different than most of what others have experienced. That being said, maybe the fix that Blackjack has and done in a utube video by RadioTeacher can help. As mentioned there have been other reported fixes, but this was the one I found effective. Hope it helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFs0AL3z2vs
Thomas, DJ posted this with a link to the video. This shows how to make alterations to bring the back of the left bag lid into alignment. Also, easy to do. Try it. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Tom, I have owned Goldwings, BMW K bikes and Harleys and if it was fit and finish the BMW's would win. Would I trake my Vision for another K1200LT......heel no! What I find after neer 10,000 miles in the past 3 1/2 months is the finish is very durable and I knew about the bag deal when i BOUGHT IT. I like the bike more the more I ride. If I wanted a bike to ride around town to be some parking lot candy I would buy a Harley and never ride it. The Vision has too much going for it for me to even car about the bag fit. But I did hear there were new bag latches that allowed some movement available or in the works. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | I had the same gap as you have in your pics on my '08. The way I fixed mine was to take the front bracket and the bolt that faces up at you of the 3 that are on the hinge, take it out and loosen the other two. Now bend the part of the bracket ever so slightly towards the bike and then put the bolt back in. You may have to push in on the cover slightly to get the bolt to match up. Then tighten up all 3 bolts and it should bring the cover closer to the seat. After a while the cover will "re-learn" its new position especially if it sits out in the hot summer days. My opinion is that apparently the cover doesn't have the same curvature as the other side so it doesn't fit as well. Being it is ABS it can take a little movement without damaging it. It's practically the same material they are using these days on these "plastic body" panels on some of these cars and they can be easily distorted. You won't be doing anything different a good body man wouldn't do to fix a part that doesn't fit well on a car. You would be surprised at what they do to fix cars and make them look new and you never know till you see it done.
Edited by atvtinker 2009-09-21 8:39 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | atvtinker - 2009-09-21 8:36 PM
I had the same gap as you have in your pics on my '08. The way I fixed mine was to take the front bracket and the bolt that faces up at you of the 3 that are on the hinge, take it out and loosen the other two. Now bend the part of the bracket ever so slightly towards the bike and then put the bolt back in. You may have to push in on the cover slightly to get the bolt to match up. Then tighten up all 3 bolts and it should bring the cover closer to the seat. After a while the cover will "re-learn" its new position especially if it sits out in the hot summer days. My opinion is that apparently the cover doesn't have the same curvature as the other side so it doesn't fit as well. Being it is ABS it can take a little movement without damaging it. It's practically the same material they are using these days on these "plastic body" panels on some of these cars and they can be easily distorted. You won't be doing anything different a good body man wouldn't do to fix a part that doesn't fit well on a car. You would be surprised at what they do to fix cars and make them look new and you never know till you see it done.
You know... THIS is a really good point and angle I hadn't thought of at all. I was trying to rationalize how the bikes that have alignment issues even got out of the factory that way after seeing all the scrutiny they go through... You are absolutely correct that injection molded ABS is very durable and parts do settle, and things get jostled in shipment, and that while metal parts likely don't move of shift... the ABS does.. Also with the size of these bags, as noted in the videos and such... a slight nudge.. makes all the difference in the world.
Interesting observation. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Miles - 2009-09-21 10:15 PM
You know... THIS is a really good point and angle I hadn't thought of at all. I was trying to rationalize how the bikes that have alignment issues even got out of the factory that way after seeing all the scrutiny they go through... You are absolutely correct that injection molded ABS is very durable and parts do settle, and things get jostled in shipment, and that while metal parts likely don't move of shift... the ABS does.. Also with the size of these bags, as noted in the videos and such... a slight nudge.. makes all the difference in the world.
Interesting observation.
Cereal settles in transit ( "sold by weight not volume"), motorcycles don't otherwise they wouldn't be safe enough to drive to the corner store, let alone across country, which I believe is why we bought them in the first place. We shouldn't have to rationalize (excuse) the bad fit and finish.
I have the bag issue and haven't made a lot of noise about it because like most Vision owners I'm extremely happy with my purchase.
However; it is inexcusable THREE model years into a production run that the problem has not been addressed at the factory level.
The problem is either design, molding or assembly. Pick one; I really don't care what it is, any way you choose the problem is still VICTORY'S.
For a factory rep to claim that because bag alignment is a "known issue" that this absolves them of the responsibility to fix the problem is ridiculous! They have had three years to address the issue and have instead chosen to ignore it. Also blaming the problem on the dealer network for accepting delivery of faulty product is BS.
I guess if you want to assign blame in this fashion, its really our fault (the rest of us owners who didn't scream bloody murder when we took our new obsessions home) that new owners are still being saddled with crappy bag alignment three years later.
So, for that I apologize.
Ill take the blame for the bags, but in exchange, Victory has to take the blame for unemployment, the wars in the middle east, the balance of trade, California's ineffectual government the failing education system, and my wife's inability to pass a shoe store.
DEAL?
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Well, my goodness, my rant did stir up things a bit. I wasn't so upset by the problem itself, (I am going to do the "quick fix" and that should be good enough), it's the fact that I really enjoy my bike, the ride and the look, and I just don't want Victory to become the "80s Chrysler" of the motorcycle world. It would seem to me that they would have some sort of post-production R&D, that would get digital photos from Dealers to analyze problems, find quick fixes, and issue tech releases letting Dealer know what to do. Then check with production to see that it remains a dead issue. I mean, why did "we" have to find this "dremel out" fixed for the left bag? Why can't they issue a tech release to the Dealers, with a re-designed bracket or something that does the same thing? And the Dealers take care of it.
The gas cap/gauge/float issue... Really?? You are really asking me if I fill up too fast? And that I shouldn't hang the gas pump nozzle too hard because it will bend the fill neck?? Really?? A simple screw on gas cap would have been just fine, and been even stronger. Plus you can make the neck thicker with the treads. This issue reminded me a little of the US/Russian space program story. The US spent millions to make a pen that will write in space, the Russians used a pencil. Meaning, Victory took the long way around, when it could have been simple.
Fixing these issues is really only a part of it. I just want Victory to become a Leader, and thrive, so they can design and build my next bike, and I'll know that I can buy again with confidence.
I'll say again...I really to like my Vision and don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon. It is a blast to ride, comfy, and I really like the style.
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | Well I'm not here to defend anyone or anything. After watching how they build the bikes, the pictures at the beginning of this thread don't look possible... yet there they are. "Post-production R&D"..... I'm sure they're looking at the same thing.. Those that have been on the factory tour know what I'm referring to. It just doesn't make sense. Oh sure... once in awhile something has to slip by someone, and every once in awhile something could slip by several someones... but at the same time... again... it just doesn't add up. That's all I'm say'n. It's a puzzle. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Sorry if it seemed like i was getting snippy with you Miles, I'm just not buying the plastic moves thing.
With the exception of cruisers and dirt bikes there are very few naked bikes being made any more; virtually every other manufacturer uses large ABS parts in their line so with the number of touring/sport bike owners we have on this site I think we would have heard that this was a common problem on "xyz bike".
So lets assume for a moment that the design and components are perfect, that every bike is assembled exactly the same, inspected and approved for shipment and then crated exactly the same way.
Once the bike is in the crate, strapped down by the frame lugs and the tip-over eyelets. How does it get tweaked enough to show as much as a 3/4 " gap at the front of the left bag?
Unless the freight lines are dropping the crates at an alarming rate, which would certainly be obvious to the dealers who receive the damaged crates, it does not make sense that a 1500 mile (maximum) trip in a tractor trailer can jolt a well assembled machine enough to have a 49% positive response rate on the vision-riders poll concerning the alignment issue. (Sorry I lost the link so I cant insert it).
So what gives? DING DING DING, "THATS RIGHT FOLKS THE ANSWER IS ...................THE LEFT SADDLE BAG LID! 
If all the above is true, then either the crating or shipping method must be the problem.
If the bikes are really leaving the factory properly aligned, then perhaps Victory should fire their common carriers, re-examine the crating method or at bare minimum attach one of those little silver bells that Harley riders seem to favor to keep the evil gremlins away.
BTW: This will be my last Victory - but only because I plan on keeping it until I cant ride any more, then I plan on telling my grandkids that one day if they're good I may leave that thing to them.
Edited by Tarpits99 2009-09-22 4:37 PM
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