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East TN | This is NOT AN OIL DEBATE question, I AM going to change to Mobil 1 oil when I hit 2500 miles, my question is; Should I run Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 or Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50????
I am leaning towards the 10W40 as it has better cold temp properties....What do you think???
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San Antonio, TX | joe schmoe,
Here is some new data that was released on June of 2009 on motorcycle oils. I found it to be an interesting read.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/G-2156.pdf
It is NOT an endorsement of any oil because you guys know.....I run Bertolli Extra Lite, Extra Virgin, Olive Oil in my Vision!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fak_RmAp5M |
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| I have use Amsoil since 2000. I have read some things about Mobil 1 not having something in it that Vics need. Don't know what it is. Use what works for you is my motto. |
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East TN | Thanks for the link ot the white paper GREAT READ!!!
As I read the White paper it appears that the 20W50 woudl be a poor choice based on Shear and heat Viscosity....But the Racing 4T 10W40 outperforms most if not ALL of the Victory oil in all categories of the tests done.... |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Interesting. I had not read the latest version of this, and do not find the results very surprising. Of course Amsoil would come in first since it is their study. After that I see that Vic oil came in third, but was edged out for reasons that I do not place strong values on. Shear, viscosity, zinc content and wear, and temp control are the big factors. Based on those factors Vic oil moves further up the scale. Also of some importance is the fact that NO TEST MACHINE used matched Victory's configuration of Air\oil cooled AND single unit case structure. So basiccally the testing shows that Vic oil is the stuff to use based on the ratings, and the fact that clutch failure with the Vic oil is pretty much unheard of except for long term wear. |
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East TN | kevinx - 2009-08-07 9:45 AM Interesting. I had not read the latest version of this, and do not find the results very surprising. Of course Amsoil would come in first since it is their study. After that I see that Vic oil came in third, but was edged out for reasons that I do not place strong values on. Shear, viscosity, zinc content and wear, and temp control are the big factors. Based on those factors Vic oil moves further up the scale. Also of some importance is the fact that NO TEST MACHINE used matched Victory's configuration of Air\oil cooled AND single unit case structure. So basiccally the testing shows that Vic oil is the stuff to use based on the ratings, and the fact that clutch failure with the Vic oil is pretty much unheard of except for long term wear.
Very good point KevinX....Didn't think about the overall confgiuration issue...Sopmething to think about. I was impressed at how well Vic oil did rate in the tests....Not like the Harley stuff in the 20W50 study. (Private labeled oil that is)
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New Bohemia, VA | yeah joe, I'd stay at the 10w-40 range. |
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Newberry, Mi. | Just keep in mind that the two most important characteristics of oil are Viscosity eg. 10w40, and the condition, or cleanliness, of the oil.
All other aspects can be debated, but as long as you use the recommended viscosity and perform the necessary oil and filter changes, you'll be providing what your engine needs.
Personally, I've found a semi-synthetic blend better serves both engine lubricating/cooling duties as well as providing the correct frictional properties for the clutch plates.
I would be far more interested in oil tests that are performed on our specific application. On an air/oil cooled V-twin engine as well as on the frictional properties for the engagement/disengagement of the clutch.
The tests aren't based on this application, nor do they take into account that the oil in a Victory is also the transmission fluid which is exposed to much more shearing force between the gears of the transmission.
Although I'm not familiar with the racing oil you mention, I'd be very cautious until you find out the complete formula. It may not include the necessary detergents and other additives normally found in consumer oils. Racing engines are often rebuilt after racing so all of the normal compounds may not be present in racing oil.
Racing machines and street machines are two different things with different purposes. Sometimes, what is used on a race bike can be used on a street bike, but I really recommend you take a much closer look at the formula.
Edited by Rob41 2009-08-07 9:33 AM
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East TN | Rob41 - 2009-08-07 10:19 AM I'd be very cautious until you find out the complete formula. It may not include the necessary detergents and other additives normally found in consumer oils. Racing engines are often rebuilt after racing so all of the normal compounds may not be present in racing oil. Racing machines and street machines are two different things with different purposes. Sometimes, what is used on a race bike can be used on a street bike, but I really recommend you take a much closer look at the formula. It is just Mobil 1 calling it racing oil, it is designed for "rice burners" and meets the JASO MA rating for wet clutch applications.... From the specs on Mobil's web site and the test that Amsoil did I am going to try it and se how it does on my next oil change...Just wasn't sure when I posted which way to go on viscosity...after the replys and reading the Amsoil test I will use the 10W40 and see. I can always change back after a few thousand miles... I jsut had GREAT improvement with my Harley when I switched from dino oil to Synthetic...We'll see |
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Newberry, Mi. | Cool, Let us know how it works out and how the clutch feels. |
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Pittsburgh, PA | did you read in that oil study that there was an area where the Vic oil did NOT to well... look it over carefully. I used the vic oil. i liked how i was able to get a kit for my vision. but as soon as 1000 miles my shifting was getting notchy and the transmission was noisey. also this is just something i noticed while using the vic oil (20w40). when i went to vic oil to amsoil back to vic oil then to amsoil. i noticed one thing aside from the shifting. The amsoil rain about 15F cooler. i base this only on my vic oil temp dip stick. Im not saying this is a plus to this. im just stating what i seen. I want to like the vic oil, but the shifting is such a big difference between the 2 oils that i end going back to amsoil. My vic dealer sales amsoil and believe it or not its the same price for me to get the amsoil than the vic oil change kit. and this includes the filter and washer i need.
keep in mind the kit comes with 6 qts. our bikes use 4.5 so you only need to purchase 5 qts... |
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Visionary
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| I've run the Vic oil, the Amsoil, and two different mobil1 oils an here are my observations (If you like what your running, great these are just my observations).
The Vic oil is shot at around 2000-2300 miles as the shifting becomes noticeably notchy (harder to shift). The Amsoil quiets the motor, extends oil change interval (based on the notchy feel) BUT (and this is a BIG but) it does make the clutch slip. It is a very mild slip but you'll notice a difference in clutch engagement as soon as you put something else in the motor. The 10-40 Mobil lasted about the same as the Vic oil, no noticeable improvement over the Vic oil I could tell via seat of the pants observations. The 20-50 Mobil is what I currently have in the bike and again I see no difference between it and the Vic oil.
I plan to try the shell Rotella synthetic when I change oil next week, but expect much the same results. The bottom line for me is run whatever you feel is a good choice "factoring in price, quality and availablity."
All the aforementioned oils are good oils with good test results and if you are replacing frequently it really isn't a factor.
Now I KNOW someone is going to question the Amsoil slipping statement BUT I will point out that I also argued this point with KevinX a few months back only to find myself eating crow more recently. On my bike it was NOT a "significant" slip, in fact most riders probably wouldn't even notice. None the less there was slipping taking place as noted by the significant engagement improvements when I switched to a different oil.
If I didn't need to go so far to get oil I would likely just run the Vic oil as it appears to run as well as anything else. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Arkainzeye - 2009-08-08 5:36 AM
did you read in that oil study that there was an area where the Vic oil did NOT to well...
You need to read the verbage as well as looking at the charts. I every case it explaines that some oils perform poorly in a certain area based on design criteria. In those criteria a manufacturer looks to a different side of the comprimise in a specific performance. Had the test been done in favor of the manufacturers thinking; that oil would have come out on top, and the others would show lower. Remember this test was done for a specific manufacturer, and while I belive the tests were not biased themselves. The tests were chosen to show that makers oil in the best light. The few areas where the Vic oil did not score well are easily explained by this. All except the three bearing test. I personally do not see how the Vic oil scored so low in that test. Being one of the highest zinc concentrates, and showing so well in the gear wear. Would seem to conflict with the results.
I also find it VERY interesting thatr the Vic oil was NOT SHOWN in the clutch stiction testing |
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LaPorte,Tx. | Teach, which viscocity Amsoil did you put in your bike during the test? |
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New Bohemia, VA | joe schmoe - 2009-08-07 8:11 AM
This is NOT AN OIL DEBATE question, I AM going to change to Mobil 1 oil when I hit 2500 miles, my question is; Should I run Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 or Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50????
I am leaning towards the 10W40 as it has better cold temp properties....What do you think???
I no longer drink alcohol, at all. But back in the day the running joke was, let's go and have "just one" of course, 5 or 6 later we'd be joking about the "just one" comment.
Well, that applies to oil as well. If you make a statement or ask a question concerning oil, oil filters, or nitrogen gas for the HID, you're going to get a debate...expect it...
I'm having some of that greek virgin salad oil shipped in a 55 gallon drum that radioteach suggested. I should be set for the next 3 year or so... and using ST filters at 2.67, I'll save me some dough to use to chrome up like VaParodox. |
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So Cal | I used victory oil this time. I was at the dealer picking up other parts and figured, what the hell. |
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| VisionTex, I've used both the 20-50 (which was my dealers pref/recommendation) and the 10-40 when the dealer was out of the 20-50. I've done 4 oil changes with 20-50 and two changes with 10-40 in Amsoil.
On the mobil1 I've done two with the 10-40 and this last one was the 20-50.
I've done 2 changes with the Vic oil when I initially bought the bike.
As stated earlier the Amsoil did make the motor run a little quieter and it ran a little cooler I "believe" with the Amsoil (seat of the pants observtions). A couple times while running the amsoil I found myself thinking the clutch wasn't making solid engagement BUT you know how you sometimes second guess yourself. If I shifter up tall and throttled hard it did pull so I wrote it off as just in my head/butt. The only reason I made the connection was I was forced to switch to the mobil as I needed an oil change and it was the only thing available. As soon as I hopped on the bike after the change I could feel the the stronger engagement and pull, it was quite noticeable.
Hope this answers your question.
For the record I'm not promoting anyone changing oils. If you are happy with what you are running great, these are just my observations.
On a similar note and please do NOT ask me how a filter can make this difference, BUT if I run the Bosch oil filter the bike will shift smoother longer than what it will on the vic filter. Again this was a pure off chance observation but I've tested it through using the same oils but with the 2 different filters and the shifting remains smoother for longer using the Bosch filter. I've looked into the construction of both filters and there doesn't appear to be anything between the two that should account for this so I'm puzzled. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them..... T |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Teach - 2009-08-08 3:37 PM
I've looked into the construction of both filters and there doesn't appear to be anything between the two that should account for this so I'm puzzled. If you have any suggestions I'd love to hear them..... T
Pressure drop. The lower the pressure drop the less likely you are to have foaming as the additive package wears out. The K&P filter from Conquest has the lowest pressure drop, and I have heard from others reports of better shifting longer with those filters |
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| kevinx, thanks for the answer. I suspected it was something along that line but really had no idea how to justify the assertion. In any case I'm not nuts, lol...... Thanks..... T |
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San Antonio, TX | Kevin,
I agree with you that they should have tested Victory Oil for Wet-Clutch Compatibility. Funny, they had enough time and money to rest all of the oils in the other tests. That is one of the most important things about Vic oil.
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Teach - 2009-08-08 4:41 PM
In any case I'm not nuts, lol...... Thanks..... T
Debatable |
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Pittsburgh, PA | see ive gone back and forth with the amsoil and the vic oil. i only did this because the amsoil was harder to get. i never noticed a difference in how the clutch engaged. but i Did notice i difference in how the transmission shifted! Thats for sure! |
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| Kevinx, so I've been told, lmao.....
Ark, I didn't notice anything negative at first but as the bike has accumulated more miles I found myself getting that little thought in my head as I was riding (is it slipping? thought) more and more frequent. When I finally swapped oils it became obvious that it was slipping.
Now mind you it is not the "oh my god my clutch is gone" type slip, just a very vague feel when you get on it like its taking some time to get rev'd up. As stated earlier it was not obvious, UNTIL I changed oil. It might be important for me to admit I have always been a bit skeptical about the "Amsoil is all that and a bag of chips claims." So when I tried it I was quite pleased with the smooth shifting, quiet running and lower heat levels (seat of the pants observations). You can imagine my disappointment when I realized the clutch was slipping. Thats ok though, I'll find something else that works and that I like.... just trial and error.
Now the Mobil1 is convenient for me to acquire as is the Shell Rotella. So my thoughts are to try the Shell since I've heard good things and it is quite a bit cheaper than the Mobil1. I'll post my findings after I've given it a good few thousand miles across the road, but my thoughts are it is going to run similar to the other synthetics in the Vision. With that said 2500 mile oil changes really invalidate any oil debates BUT knowing I have a synthetic in the cases gives me a little more confidence if I'm on the road and don't get to changing at that 2500 mark. |
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So Cal | Victory may be doing well but not well enough to own their own oil co. SOMEONE is making their oil for them. Castrol is the only MC oil I can find in 20w-40. Im not saying they are the ones, Im just saying... With 2500 mile change intervals, whatever you use really dosent have a chance to get that dirty. Dont forget this is not only an air cooled motor but an oil cooled one also. I think thats why the more frequent changes. Clean oil, no matter who makes it, is amazing stuff. Next time your hands get greasy and dirty try a little clean oil before soap and water.
All have to meet an SAE standard. You'll have a hard time finding one that doesnt in the US. As long as its MC specific, due to the wet clutch, all should work well. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | cjnoho - 2009-08-08 9:01 PM
Victory may be doing well but not well enough to own their own oil co. SOMEONE is making their oil for them. .
All Polaris oils including Victory are made by a company called Lube Tech. This is the very same company that makes Mobile1 synthetic |
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Puddle Jumper
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Florida | I think the two oils are exactly the same except for their base oil. |
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| Just run Rotella and be done with it....Too funny!!!!
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LaPorte Indiana | I have been using the shell Rotella synthetic on my last two changes. I find that the oil feels real good for about 1000 to 1500 miles. After that the shifting starts to go... I kinda like knowing that I can pick it up any where. And it is only $20.00 a gallon... But at this time I think I will be moving back to Vic oil on my next change. (8,000 miles on bike)... |
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Western WA | golfer - 2009-08-18 10:13 AM
Just run Rotella and be done with it....Too funny!!!!
+1 on the Rotella. Used it exclusively on the last bike for 30 k with no problems. Now I'm running it on the Vision. |
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New Bohemia, VA | Ahhh, the oil thread lives on. But it gives me a minute to chime in. I ran Victory oil for the last two oil changes and have listened to chatter, chatter for the last 700 miles or so on the run. I just went back to amsoil, and I'm staying full syn for now on and the engine is so much quieter and smoother shifting, not just because it is a fresh oil change, it is different. I've also gone to using the fram oil filter 7317, instead of the supertech one this time around, I'm not sure why other than I've always used fram and found the one that fits. I need to spray it black as they are orange.
anyway, the other thing I noticed by eye sight only is that the after 3,000 miles using the supertech filter the oil appeared cleaner. the old oil seemed to be more translucent than when I used the Victory filter. Maybe it is just my imagination, but i won't be going back unless it is a necessary thing. just me.
Edited by varyder 2009-08-25 11:24 AM
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Cabot Arkansas | Breaker - 2009-08-25 10:50 AM
golfer - 2009-08-18 10:13 AM
Just run Rotella and be done with it....Too funny!!!!
+1 on the Rotella. Used it exclusively on the last bike for 30 k with no problems. Now I'm running it on the Vision.
Yeah but doesn't the Rotella void the extended warranty |
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New Bohemia, VA | Maverick - 2009-08-25 1:15 PM
Breaker - 2009-08-25 10:50 AM
golfer - 2009-08-18 10:13 AM
Just run Rotella and be done with it....Too funny!!!!
+1 on the Rotella. Used it exclusively on the last bike for 30 k with no problems. Now I'm running it on the Vision.
Yeah but doesn't the Rotella void the extended warranty
Why? If it is a JASO rated oil for the application it has nothing to do with the warranty. I even had another Victory dealer wrench tell me that folks make too much out of the oil and the warranty deal.
I just have to ask where are all these engines that get blown apart because they use a different, yet properly rated oil? folks are racking up hundreds of thousands of miles on other than Vic oil and they are trouble free.
to have some tell it, BEWARE if you use other than Vic oil you're doomed. 35 years of working on and around engines that logic has never made sense to me and is based on isolated incidents when all conditions are not taken into consideration. But it gets blamed on the oil.
the only thing is make sure it is in line with the ratings for your application. |
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, IA | Rotella does it come in a 20-50 weight |
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Western WA | sonicbluerider - 2009-08-26 3:52 AM
Rotella does it come in a 20-50 weight
It's 5W-40 |
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, IA | geee i though vic's used 20-50 |
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New Bohemia, VA | 20-40 i thought? |
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Western WA | Yep, the book calls for 20W - 40.
The Rotella runs the same viscosity (40) at the 100 Celsius mark.
Grabbed this off of a 'viscosity explained' site:
"When you see a W on a viscosity rating it means that this oil viscosity has been tested at a Colder temperature. The numbers without the W are all tested at 210° F or 100° C which is considered an approximation of engine operating temperature. In other words, a SAE 30 motor oil is the same viscosity as a 10w-30 or 5W-30 at 210° (100° C). The difference is when the viscosity is tested at a much colder temperature. For example, a 5W-30 motor oil performs like a SAE 5 motor oil would perform at the cold temperature specified, but still has the SAE 30 viscosity at 210° F (100° C) which is engine operating temperature. This allows the engine to get quick oil flow when it is started cold verses dry running until lubricant either warms up sufficiently or is finally forced through the engine oil system. The advantages of a low W viscosity number is obvious. The quicker the oil flows cold, the less dry running. Less dry running means much less engine wear."
And now I promise to stay away from oil threads. |
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Puddle Jumper
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Salt lake city Ut. | kevinx - 2009-08-09 7:38 AM
cjnoho - 2009-08-08 9:01 PM
Victory may be doing well but not well enough to own their own oil co. SOMEONE is making their oil for them. .
All Polaris oils including Victory are made by a company called Lube Tech. This is the very same company that makes Mobile1 synthetic
How did you find that information? |
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Salt lake city Ut. | Kevin
I am interested in how you know mobil 1 oil is made by lubetech. as you said polaris/ Victory oil is made by lube tech and I am very sure of that fact but where did the mobil one connection come from? There are many good oils availible for Victory applications but I have never heard of that connection.
Not Lubetech!
ExxonMobil is the world's largest publicly traded international oil and gas company. We hold an industry-leading inventory of global oil and gas resources. We are the world's largest refiner and marketer of petroleum products. And our chemical company ranks among the world's largest. But we are also a technology company, applying science and innovation to find better, safer and cleaner ways to deliver the energy the world needs.
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Salt lake city Ut. | No answer? because its not true. lets just enjoy the ride and say what we know not what we????? |
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Memphis,Tn. | There's no refinery listed For Lube Tech in my annual Lubes & Greases magazine supplement. Looks like they are a blender or possibly a repackage outsource. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Side Car - 2009-08-30 8:58 PM
No answer? because its not true. lets just enjoy the ride and say what we know not what we?????
No answer because I had not looked at this thread. All you have to do is go to Lube Tech's site, and you will be able to find out all about them. [I guess you would find that as difficult as proof reading the crap you type. ]Then you will find that your assumption is wrong. Don't bother apologising though as it is plainly obvious that you are an ignorant fuck that speaks before he thinks. In the future you might try checking facts for your own lazy ass instead of calling people liars.
Here is a link
http://www.lube-tech.com/
Though they have changed their site a little. You can still click on automotive, and you will note that the first private label oil they list is MOBIL. I guess that should be enough hand holding to get you there
Edited by kevinx 2009-08-31 6:41 AM
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | TopFuel - 2009-08-31 6:15 AM
There's no refinery listed For Lube Tech in my annual Lubes & Greases magazine supplement. Looks like they are a blender or possibly a repackage outsource.
You are correct. They are a blender |
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Tavares, Fl | Anyone know who blends the oil for Victory????? |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | rlreed - 2009-08-31 8:00 AM
Anyone know who blends the oil for Victory?????
That would be Lube Tech as stated earlier in the thread |
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Mount Vernon, WA United States | joe schmoe - 2009-08-07 7:11 AM
This is NOT AN OIL DEBATE question, I AM going to change to Mobil 1 oil when I hit 2500 miles, my question is; Should I run Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W40 or Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50????
I am leaning towards the 10W40 as it has better cold temp properties....What do you think???
I would run the V-Twin oil 20W-50. I run Amsoil, motorcycle 20W-50 and have used Mobil 1 in a pinch on other vehicles. I've been running Amsoil since the 70's on most everything I have owned, but that wasn't the question.  |
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New Bohemia, VA | Miles you must have a big junk yard out back from running amsoil since the '70's. don't you know that stuff is bad for motors...
sorry, there i go again. but i do concur, make sure the stuff is made for your application, i.e. wet clutch. |
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Memphis,Tn. | I checked the Lube Tech website and it looks like they do blend some of their own private label Lube Tech products in house.
I called them at 651-636-7990 and talked to Kerry in sales. They are a distributor for Mobil brand lubricants. However, they do not manufacture or blend Mobil Products under license for Exxon/Mobil. Distribution for resale only.
I would have been surprised if the ExMo tribologists had given control their product formulary to an aftermarket distributor. Not taking sides here, just interested in who's really making the Victory label base oil and specing their add pack. |
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | TopFuel - 2009-08-31 1:18 PM
I checked the Lube Tech website and it looks like they do blend some of their own private label Lube Tech products in house.
I called them at 651-636-7990 and talked to Kerry in sales. They are a distributor for Mobil brand lubricants. However, they do not manufacture or blend Mobil Products under license for Exxon/Mobil. Distribution for resale only.
I would have been surprised if the ExMo tribologists had given control their product formulary to an aftermarket distributor. Not taking sides here, just interested in who's really making the Victory label base oil and specing their add pack.
Thank you for the research. The old site that lube tech had showed Mobile1 containers all over the place, and the fact that they state that they do private label for Mobil certainly does insinuate that they are the blenders of M1 oils. In fact if you look at the pix used on the current site you can see them pouring from a M1 container
Regardless. If they are distributors of Mobile products including M1 oil. It is like I said. Vic could have gotten the same product, but chose instead to blend it's own oil
Edited by kevinx 2009-08-31 2:36 PM
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Memphis,Tn. | Kevinx, have you seen any clutch issues with your customers using Red Line oils? Thanks for hanging in here with us. Great to have a Victory tech here willing to share his knowledge.
I've never tried Red Line's powersports products. Automotive only and 95% of that has been in turbocharged applications. I've noticed the Amsoil motorcycle white papers never include Red Line oils in their testing. Amsoil claims it's because Red Line is a boutique blender without enough market share. They do test Motul, Bel-Ray, Spectro, Torco and Maxima - which to me are the epitimy of boutique oils. Makes me wonder when Red line is probably moving 10 times the product volume compared to for instance our Polaris branded lubes.
I just love a good oil thread. (My mother is so ashamed of me...) |
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Puddle Jumper
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Salt lake city Ut. | All Polaris oils including Victory are made by a company called Lube Tech. This is the very same company that makes Mobile1 synthetic (Qoute Kevin X)
I only wanted to have a dialog to know where you had the info that lube tech mixed blended or in some way had a connection to mobil 1 synthetic oil period. I have been buying selling and speaking with the lube tech people for 19 years Yea I am a Victory dealer employee just like you. Polaris for 19 years and Victory for 10 Some times I see People (customers owners of the product) being given bad info or someone gives an opinion that slants the truth it bugs me. I think you know what I mean? Anyway mobil 1 is not anything other than a line that lube tech sales just like any other distributer or retailer in the business. No hard feelings I am not trying to be a !@#$ as you said just want us all on the same page. Ride on man peace! |
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Salt lake city Ut. | oh I dont talk without thinking or guess this is what I do when not at the dealer ship or riding my bikes
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Memphis,Tn. | Side Car, nice dragster!! Fill us in on engine displacement, transmission, rear end gear, and best ET and speed.
Thanks for the pic. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
Salt lake city Ut. | Car is owned by my brother, I tune the chassis, motor, NOS system.
2008 spitzer carbon fiber comp chassis
632 cu inch all aluminum chev big block by sonnys
2 speed glide hughes pro mod case and internals 167 gear
Strange rear end 430 gear
2 stages of nos our design speed tech parts 250 1st 300 second
Best e.t 6.60
best speed 206 mph
best 60 ft .994
best 1/8 mile 4.23
I a great time to get away with my brother an nephew and compete
anyway this is a bike site I just wanted Kevin to know that we are both motorheads and no hard feelings.
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | More gearheads here I think cause we know what we want and we wanted a Vision...
Div7 top sportsman Champion.
500 CI DRCE 1120 HP 2400 pounds and 7.50 ETs.
Now I bring my bike to the races too... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Side Car - 2009-09-01 9:13 AM
anyway this is a bike site I just wanted Kevin to know that we are both motorheads and no hard feelings.
If you are gonna be gracious then I guess that leaves me to apologise....dammit
In the future though shoot me a PM instead of assuming I am ignoring something intentionally. I am a busy boy. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
Salt lake city Ut. | Cool hopefully we could hook up at the Vegas divisional in Nov.  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Memphis,Tn. | Looks like I'm going to use the Victory 20w-40 motor oil and oil filters. The Victory brand oil did well in the Amsoil tests and the Victory oil filter was of a higher quality than the Fram or Mobil 1 filters I cut open.
Also, no clutch or warranty issues to contend with and I'll be buying from and supporting my local Victory dealer. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Has anyone here tried Lucas Motorcycle Oil? It's a full synthetic in 20w50 and designed specifically for bikes. As far as those of you that use Rotella 5w40 syn try going back to a 20w50 and see if you notice a difference. I just did and it is a night and day difference. Bike runs quieter and shifts a whole lot better. I think the 5w is way too thin for our bikes. I use to run the Rotella in my Meanstreak and didn't really pay attention to the difference, but with my Vision it made a lot of difference. After the first minute or two, the bike kept getting quieter and quieter and the shifting became a lot less clunkier. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | the only time I have ran a 50w oil was in my old 65 olds cutlass that smoked like the dickens. that kept it from smoking but it was very hard to start in the winter being a straight 50 weight. It is not likely that I would go with a 20w50 though I know it would run quieter because of the thicker oil. I'm not an expert, and go by observations. 20w40 should be more than adequate, but of course this is just MHO.
TopFuel, I applaud you, make a decision and stick with it whatever you are fine with. After switching back and forth between the Vic and full synthetic, I find that with the Vic the bike sounds ratty after about 1,800 miles, but I carry it out through the to 2,500 mark. It's amazing I could not even log the miles and I know when to change the oil using Vic. The full syn runs out about 2,500 to 3,000 before it gets the ratty sound and then it is of a milder tone.
Edited by varyder 2009-09-04 4:32 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | atvtinker - 2009-09-04 3:12 AM
Has anyone here tried Lucas Motorcycle Oil? It's a full synthetic in 20w50 and designed specifically for bikes. As far as those of you that use Rotella 5w40 syn try going back to a 20w50 and see if you notice a difference. I just did and it is a night and day difference. Bike runs quieter and shifts a whole lot better. I think the 5w is way too thin for our bikes. I use to run the Rotella in my Meanstreak and didn't really pay attention to the difference, but with my Vision it made a lot of difference. After the first minute or two, the bike kept getting quieter and quieter and the shifting became a lot less clunkier.
I have been looking for Lucas motorcycle oil. I think I'll try it if I find it locally. As for the 5w40 oil, that is a pretty low viscocity on the base oil and a lot of polymers added to get the 40 viscocity. With the shear due to gears in our motorcycles it has a tendency to distroy the polymer string with time, so the top viscocity moves closer to the base oil with time, in this case 5w. I always try to stay with the base oil the manufacturer recommends, for the Vision, that is 20w. The base oil is measured cold 40 degree C where the higher viscocity is measured at 100 degrees C. Yes, I would say the 5w is too low for the Vision. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 98
Santa Maria CA | All I use is the lucas bike oil in my bikes and lucas syn in my car and truck. The oil is great, never had any problem.. In my vett it lowerd oil temp by 20 deg over mobil 1. we also use it in the super latemodel stock car ( on Dirt ) |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | docvtx - 2009-09-04 1:00 PM
All I use is the lucas bike oil in my bikes and lucas syn in my car and truck. The oil is great, never had any problem.. In my vett it lowerd oil temp by 20 deg over mobil 1. we also use it in the super latemodel stock car ( on Dirt )
thanks. i asked about lucas products in another thread back in july but never got any response. I've thought about lucas as it has been around for a long time as well. any good perks using it in the Victory motor? quietier, cooler...etc??? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 293
Arkansas | atvtinker said: I think the 5w is way too thin for our bikes. I use to run the Rotella in my Meanstreak and didn't really pay attention to the difference, but with my Vision it made a lot of difference.
FYI: At above 80-85 degF, 5w40 is just 40 wgt; so it's no thinner than Victory. However, I don't mean to imply that your observations on
shifting smoothness are not valid. Just that the difference is likely due to more technical factors in the recipe blend; i.e. Zinc, etc. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | I tried the Rotella 5w40 on the last oil change and it wasn't long before I noticed "little things" popping up such more valve train noise and clunkier shifting. Changed the oil to the Lucas after about 300 miles because it was getting me worried. That's when I noticed the biggest improvements so the Lucas oil must be some good stuff. I can get it locally for about $8 a quart. I've never seen such a clear looking oil for 20w50. They must use some really clean base stock or their additives don't change the color much. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 293
Arkansas | atv, where do you find the Lucas? I think I'd like to try it. I'm just 1 state north of ya. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 98
Santa Maria CA | hey varyder how is it going? the lucas oil shift better,quiter and runs cooler. i've run lucas in my vision since 8,000 mile...........now I about 40,000. it also works well in my VTX1800 and the wifes GL1800, they also runner quiter and shift easier. |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Hey Jama, found Lucas oil at the local O'Reilly store here in Mansfield. I was surprised to find the motorcyle oil but I knew they had the automotive stuff and additives. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | docvtx - 2009-09-05 12:28 AM
hey varyder how is it going? the lucas oil shift better,quiter and runs cooler. i've run lucas in my vision since 8,000 mile...........now I about 40,000. it also works well in my VTX1800 and the wifes GL1800, they also runner quiter and shift easier.
thanks doc. like I mentioned I've seen this stuff running around for ages especially growing up around excavating with my dad. I don't believe he ever used though, just remembered seeing it at various places when he'd pick up stuff. Saw it a lot in Wisconsin, but never heard any talk about how good or bad it was.
I might look into it a little more, but the problem I have is I do like AMSOIL and I've got a good friend that sells that "snake oil" as I call, so he'll have his opinion on lucas. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | docvtx - 2009-09-04 10:28 PM
hey varyder how is it going? the lucas oil shift better,quiter and runs cooler. i've run lucas in my vision since 8,000 mile...........now I about 40,000. it also works well in my VTX1800 and the wifes GL1800, they also runner quiter and shift easier.
docvtx, thanks for this info. My grandson races Class A Modifieds in the K/C area and gets sponsorship money from Lucus oil, so I'm thinking of switching from Amsoil to Lucus. How often do you change the oil on your Vision? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Here's a pretty comprehensive paper sponsored by Amsoil if you have the time (25 pages long). Doesn't come across like propaganda but what do I know. http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/mc_oils_white_paper_g2156.pdf Just noticed that this was posted by radioteacher back on page one....Sorry.
Edited by SongFan 2009-09-05 2:20 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Memphis,Tn. | Update: Well I picked up a 6 pack of Victory motor oil last week. Took a look at the bottle labels this evening and noticed there are no API certification donuts. (Uh-Oh.) Looks like I'll need a lot of faith in the blender's ability to select quality base oils and the ensuing additive package. The MSDS lists severely hydrotreated paraffinic base oils and synthetic base materials. Probably group III and group IV. The blender's (Lube Tech) website mentions that they are ISO9001/2000 certified. Bottom line, Victory is obviously willing to warranty their engines using this 20w-40 blend, so I'm also willing to do likewise.
Gearheads. Here is some interesting reading by Dr. A. E. Haas concerning motor oils. Dr. Haas uses his personal Ferrari's and other vehicles to verify his lubrication hypotheses. He is the (unofficial) lubricants expert in the Ferrari community forums. There are no internal combustion engine owner$ I know of as anal about car care as Ferrari owner$. Enjoy.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles
(Hey Songfan next time you're at FRS have a look at their disassembled oil filters.)
Edited by TopFuel 2009-09-08 2:00 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Hey TopFuel, Already got the show and tell on the filters at FRS. That Fram is scary. Nice to know the Victory unit seems to be as good as they come. Also heard about the Ferrari pics on your cellphone and the meticulous records you had with the two bikes you traded in. You're obviously out of my league but I look forward to hooking up soon. |
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Tourer
Posts: 446
East TN | Here's a FOLLOW UP to chanign to the Mobil1 1-W-40 4T Racing oil....I have run about 300 miles with the Mobil 1 oil...The gears "seem" to shift a little smoother with less CLUNK!!! Also the engine "seems" to be running cooler also...I don't get the heat clicks (engine cooling sounds of clicking) after I stop from riding around....These are just seat of the pants observations but I think the Mobil 1 stuff is workign BETTER than the Vic oil does....I'll keep you posted... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | SongFan - 2009-09-08 7:41 AM
That Fram is scary.
What about Fram??? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Varyder, TopFuel took three perfectly good unused filters and cut them at the seam across the bottom. Fram, Victory and I think the other one might have been Purolator. I was shocked at how much difference there was in the amount of filter media (paper) and the quality of the valves. Victory has two valves and a lot more media to trap particles. I've always used Fram in my cars and trucks with no ill effects but was shocked at how cheesy it looked inside compared to the Victory. The Purolator was even worse but I expected that. Lots of guys swear by Wix but I've never seen a real side-by-side comparison of the exact filters I use until the TopFuel demo. He's a Ferrari guy. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Thanks SF. I saw a video on youtube, I think, that showed the wix and it had good results if I recall. I forgot which filter he was comparing it too. I've got a supertech I want to cut apart to see what it looks like compared to the Victory filter. I used the ST the last oil run and I'm currently running, uh, Fram. I'm glad the oil change is only 2,500 miles. I might go with wix this time around. Orange doesn't go well with Midnight Cherry, not as well as chrome or black.
I will note that using the ST filter the oil looked to be more translucent than my previous oil changes... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Top Fuel,
Any chance you have pix of the cut apart filters to show??? Lord knows the wannabe engineers around here need a good show, and tell |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Kevin, They are sitting on the front counter at FRS Powersports so if TopFuel doesn't have pics I'll take some next time I'm there. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | SongFan - 2009-09-08 9:45 AM
Kevin, They are sitting on the front counter at FRS Powersports so if TopFuel doesn't have pics I'll take some next time I'm there.
Sweet...thanks |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | I'm interested in if anyone knows and can pass on the bypass pressure valve setting for the Polaris oil filter used on the Vision. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Memphis,Tn. | The filters I cut open were a Fram, Mobil 1 and Polaris. Didn't know there would be such interest or I would have used a new Polaris filter. The one at FRS is actually a used filter that came off my Vision. I brake cleaned the oil out and it looks as good as new. I've tried to post some pics of the filters, my Vision and some Ferrari stuff but I get an error message that the files are too large... so I just shrug my sholders and move on to something else. Life's too short.
The media in the Fram looks like the cardboard they package chinese bootleg DVDs in. The Mobil 1 media looks better, but it uses the same cheap (IMO) bypass valve setup as the Fram. The Polaris is clearly the best. Great looking media and 2 actual coil springs to seal the bypass valve and canister assemblies. The icing on the cake is that the Polaris oil filter actually costs a dollar less than the Mobil 1 filter. A mechanical no brainer if there ever was one. I'm glad the guys at FRS didn't throw the filters away. I cut them open for my own self satisfation and thought the results were interesting enough to share with what I believe are the greatest bunch of guys at any bike dealership I've ever walked into.
The vehicles in the private collection I maintain are NOT mine!!! They belong to a local physician. (Imagine Jay Leno with a medical degree.) I'm in his garage nearly every weekend and have been for over 30 years. The collection is mainly collector cars with 7 old motorcycles thrown in for a little balance. My "real" job during the week is supervising 32 diesel mechanics for a mixed fleet transportation company. I see the insides of a lot of engines. One of my "hobbies" is surfing the web studying everything I can find about lubrication and filtration.
I worry alot more about what I do with someone else's vehicles than what I do with my own.
BTW, there will be a Car Show at the UPS Hub on Swinnea Rd at Memphis International Airport next Saturday from 10:00 til 3:30pm. I'll be there with a couple of cars. It would be great to meet some fellow Victory riders there.
Edited by TopFuel 2009-09-08 1:43 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | TopFuel - The vehicles in the private collection I maintain are NOT mine!!! They belong to a local physician. (Imagine Jay Leno with a medical degree.) I'm in his garage nearly every weekend and have been for over 30 years. The collection is mainly collector cars with 7 old motorcycles thrown in for a little balance. My "real" job during the week is supervising 32 diesel mechanics for a mixed fleet transportation company. I see the insides of a lot of engines. One of my "hobbies" is surfing the web studying everything I could find about lubrication and filtration. I worry alot more about what I do with someone else's vehicles than what I do with my own. That's what makes it even more impressive! The Doc trusts you with that fleet. Just because you don't own one doesn't mean you're not one. I don't own an airplane but I consider myself an airplane guy. p.s. - I'll be there Saturday.
Edited by SongFan 2009-09-08 2:03 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | There was a filter comparison some time back on the riderforums.com on the Kawasaki pages that had cut apart about ten major filter brands and they had done bypass pressure drops on them. They had the Purolator Pure One as the top filter but only beating out the K&N strictly on the price difference. All the tests were comparable between the two with price being the only real difference. Had been using them on my Meanstreak for the last 3 years before I traded it on the Vision. I will probably use them on the Vision next oil change. I believe the part # for the Purolator is PL4611. Will have to check when I get back home. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Memphis,Tn. | SongFan GREAT!! Looking forward to meeting you !!
I'll be there with at least one Ferrari. I'm not sure what else we'll bring yet.
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | If you need help driving any of that gear to the car show, I'm sure Songfan and I would be willing to park our bikes for a moment to give a hand. I'll see if I can get loose. Got soccer to coach and then maybe get loose. |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | Pooooot theScooootchkin-Soccer??? You know how to coach soccer?? Thats funny! Kick that ball, kick that ball!
Edited by DesertJim 2009-09-09 12:02 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | DesertJim - 2009-09-09 1:01 PM
Pooooot theScooootchkin-Soccer??? You know how to coach soccer?? Thats funny! Kick that ball, kick that ball!
ROTFLMTO 
Edited by varyder 2009-09-09 2:22 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Hmmmmm! I see you have reared your head out of the Sand! First off, let me clarify, I know nothing about Soccer, so the jokes on you, hahahahahhah! But since no one else signed up for the job, I was next in line for volunteering, so I got the job. so, see, I am qualified. |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | pollolittle - 2009-09-09 12:44 PM
Hmmmmm! I see you have reared your head out of the Sand! First off, let me clarify, I know nothing about Soccer, so the jokes on you, hahahahahhah! But since no one else signed up for the job, I was next in line for volunteering, so I got the job. so, see, I am qualified.
Go for it Poot!!! And- yes, the joke usually is on me. But that was funny! +1 with Vary ROTFLMAO ROTFLMTO - ROTFLMTO -that was 3 times the laugh-
Hope you are well - ride safe! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Memphis,Tn. | pollolittle, c'mon down!!! We'll flip a coin to see who drives/rides what.
This is also a bike show. I missed the inaugural show last year. (It was scheduled the same weekend as the NHRA races.)
Bring your Vision and enter it for 20 bucks. The show is free to spectators and "family friendly."
Back to the Oil Thread....... (sorry)
No way to really get a definitive answer as to the different filtering media efficiencies without spending a ton of cash. I looked at the overall filter designs as an indicator of the quality the manufacturer would also be willing to spec for their filtering media. |
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