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Tourer
Posts: 447
Northeastern Penna. | Is ABS really necessary on a motorcycle while riding on dry pavement ? Much can be said about the benefits on ABS on wet pavement if needing to brake hard and I guess the same might be true braking hard on dry roads as well, or is there a lot of hype on ABS ? If a driver brakes correctly and doesn't speed incessantly, he/she can brake out of trouble, right? What then, do
the linked brakes on the Vision serve as ? My point is, How many would opt for the ABS at the
extra price ? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | "not I" said the little fat man with the big red Vision..... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| The reason for the ABS option on the Vison is the same reason for the ABS option on the Goldwing, Ultra Classic, and K1200LT; touring riders tend to ride in slippery conditions more often than the simple Sunday cruiser, in which case ABS will allow a safer panic stop than even the linked braking system will provide when in slippery conditions. Just like cars with ABS, braking performance on DRY pavement is slightly worse (usually around 10% longer) than a Non-ABS equipped vehicle. Most riders I know of who have ABS have developed better braking techniques due to the knowledge that they cannot lock up a wheel in a hard braking situation. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 97
Brighton, Colorado | Had it on my Goldwing. Wish I had it on my Vision. Don't have to pay so much attention as to how much brake you're using (linked or not). Was always afraid of lockin' up the wheels. With the ABS, that was out of my mind. Made for better braking technique, etc. Pay the extra money. The ONE time you might actually need them to help save you're life, ........they just paid for themselves. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Oh, another thought about this; while taking an MSF Experienced Rider Course this spring one of the exercises they have you do is to feel what is like to have a rear wheel lock up in a controlled situation, I told the instructor that I had a semi-linked brake system on my Vision and thought that I would not be able to lock up the rear wheel for the exercise. He told me to give it a try anyway and he would watch my front and rear wheels to see the difference, when I laid HARD on the rear brake from 20 mph he informed me that the the Vision only moved about 3 feet after the rear tire locked up. Just a little example of how effective our semi-linked braking system is on dry pavement. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | IF you get ABS make sure you take it out and use it BEFORE that emergency situation occurs. Many people dont realize what ABS does until its too late. I have never had a motorcycle with abs. I have had many 4 wheeled vehicles with it. I have never used ABS because I pay attention to my surroundings. ABS is one of those feelgood options that most dont understand until its too late. Do not substitute ABS for good judgement. |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Let me throw just a bit of confusion in here on the ABS option comment. I was talking with the owner of the store and he was getting his order sheet put together over this last week. The ABS is optional only on the Blue Vision. The White vision will not have ABS and all black Visions will have ABS. Yes it took a minute of standing there with a blank look on my face trying to decipher what was conveyed. I remembered that it was Victory and finaly reset my brain and went on about my merry way. |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Northeastern Penna. | DWhite, Did I just read what you wrote, correctly ? When I went to my dealer yesterday, that is exactly what they said, "The ABS is not offered on the Pearl White". Looking in the 2010 model
brochure, there are specifications and features on a page with the pearl white model and it shows ABS as an option. I think confusion is a necessary tool for us. What does the color of a bike have to do with options ? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | wjoel - 2009-08-02 6:45 AM
What does the color of a bike have to do with options ?
Unless the catalog has as many mistakes as the website, it makes all the difference in the world.
Apparently Victory is determined to make certain that the STYLING isn't he only thing about the Vision that people refer to as ABSURD. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| There's plenty of confusion and mythology surounding ABS. One of the myths is that a good rider can out brake an ABS system. This might have been true in the earlier days of motorcycle ABS.
http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedings/a-Green-ComparisonofStoppin... |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 11
Las Vegas | Visions have a linked braking system therfore meaning when you hit the foot brake you are applying pressure to both front and back brakes at the same time. ABS brakes on any bike is dangerous. Who wants to lock up brakes just so that it is released and then locked again? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| tinabattles - 2009-08-02 2:52 PM
Visions have a linked braking system therfore meaning when you hit the foot brake you are applying pressure to both front and back brakes at the same time. ABS brakes on any bike is dangerous. Who wants to lock up brakes just so that it is released and then locked again?
Tina, please read the article I posted above. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | tinabattles - 2009-08-02 4:52 PM
Visions have a linked braking system therfore meaning when you hit the foot brake you are applying pressure to both front and back brakes at the same time. ABS brakes on any bike is dangerous. Who wants to lock up brakes just so that it is released and then locked again?
I recall you work for Arlen as a salesperson, or so you mentioned it in another post. What would you tell a rider that wants to buy a Vision with ABS? I'm curious... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | Interesting question varider.
Although I feel very uncomfortable with the thought of ABS on a bike, I can see the merits and will try it out. After trying it out, if it's engineered correctly, I'll go with my head instead of my gut and opt for the ABS.
Edited by Rob41 2009-08-02 11:06 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I remember when people demanded air bags because they didnt want to"buckle up". Turns out air bags are ineffective without seat belts. Ooops. 1974, your car would not start until your seat belt was buckled. Lasted one model year. Made a killing bypassing that. We now have ABS, traction control, air bags, and people are still dying in automobiles. The only thing the government and insurance companies have no control over is the driver. He has not changed. From what I see, he's gotten worse. He has ipod AND bluetooth in his vehicle. For every saftey feature they add, they add two entertainment features to distract you from DRIVING! I love speed. but I will not induilge with someone on the back and not where there are too many people. I am a firm believer, when it's your time there is nothing you can do about it. ABS and air bags wont help.
Edited by cjnoho 2009-08-03 1:43 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | Destiny doesn't work alone. Sometimes you have to meet it half way. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I met Destiny once... it was about 3 months ago when I almost got t-boned and ABS wouldn't have done one bit of good. Riding with trained caution and observance, and the good Lord lookin' out for me, saved me from being a Toyota Tundra grill. I think we met halfway...
I still haven't told my wife as she would tell me to immediately park it and never ride again... I'll save it for a death bed confession, since I won't have any others except the time dropped sand in my Dad's truck as a kid, not knowing any better and messed up the fuel pump.
It was cool though because I learned a lot that day. Like taking a can of gas and a hose, strapping it to the hood and bypassing the tank line, that got us home.
Well, there was this other time... never mind... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Toss some input into the ABS debate here.....maintenance I've heard that on quite a few other ABS equipped bikes that the average person CAN'T do thier own brake pad replacement. The BMW models requires a special tool that is ONLY available to the dealer? And that Honda & BMW and Harley ALL require a resetting of the ABS computer system? Which is NOT free? And that Harley holds some type of special patent on thier pad designs and they are ONLY available from the dealer for the NEXT ten years? But this is only what I heard though.......I might be wrong?....or I might be correct? More importantly....does ANY of the above apply to Vision ABS system?
Edited by Lotzafun 2009-08-03 11:58 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | It wasn't so long ago when so many people were balking at fuel injection. IMO, non-ABS bikes will go the way of the carburetor for better or worse.
The Vision, even more so than other bikes, is a forward thinking bike that embraces the future, rather than embracing the past.
The arguments on both sides are always compelling,but like in the auto industry, I think ABS will be here to stay. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | ABS may be here to stay, but that doesn't make it better or foward thinking. In deed we may have to live with it one, but that don't mean I have to like it. If I can hold out as long as I can, I will. I'll redo my Vision if that day comes when my only choice is ABS on a new one and the Bentley still has a good carcass. |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Lotzafun - 2009-08-03 11:56 AM Toss some input into the ABS debate here.....maintenance More importantly....does ANY of the above apply to Vision ABS system? As of this writing, i have not heard or seen any information on the 2010 Vision ABS system as far as service. But i have not checked the website in the last 2 weeks due to other vehicle emergencies at work. I will do my best to let you know as soon as i hear about servicing the ABS brake system. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I think BMW also says you have to bleed the brake fluid once a year whether you ride it or not. It is a closed-loop system, dealer only, and failure to document having it done voids the warranty. (A buddy had a R1200CLC. Terrible bike.) |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | according to a read on wikipedia, ABS testing started in 1958 on a, get this, motorcycle, well, a royal enfield anyways. I don't say that conceptually it is a bad idea, I just feel knowing my machine in regards to me providing input makes me feel more in control of a situation. Even a note any time ABS is brought up in serious article on the technology that it provides a false sense of security. Also, it is not ideal on certain road surfaces.
Okay, with all that said, it still boils down to this. If you ride, I hope that you are aware of the risks and dangers and that you spend more time learning all there is to know about your bike. It is much more than a bicycle on wheels, and it will take care you if you take care of it and get to know it. (this was not directed to anyone that knows what I'm talking about, it is for the lurker who happens by and is thinking of getting a cool motorcycle to fit in with his or her friends. CAUTION: Most of the accidents that I read around our area is inexperienced riders wanting to fit in. So sad, but true, and worse yet, some of them are our soldiers who spent time in a war zone, come home, get a bike and is dead within a month... ABS will never fix inexperience.) |
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New user
Posts: 1
| Ever lock the breaks at 35-40 mph....I think ABS would be wise |
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Cruiser
Posts: 97
Brighton, Colorado | ABS doesn't give you piece of mind. And it doesn't make me lazy. It just lets me that I've got help if I need it. I guarantee that some day, being a diligent rider, is NOT going to help me. ABS is a tool to help get through that time when diligence wasn't enough, hopefully in a better position to come out on the other side..........SAFE. Been riding for 52 years. Tens of thousands of miles in EVERY condition imaginable. No wrecks. Close some times (due to being a diligent rider). ABS will be there when isn't an option. Hopefully, it's enough to get me out of the jam I know I'm going to run into some day. Still keepin' my fingers crossed. (not while riding though) 
Edited by Squeak 2009-08-04 1:36 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | The key word is "necessary."
While I don't feel I "need" ABS, or "need" Linked Brakes, or "need" reverse.... if given the option...
I would get ABS, Linked Brakes and Reverse. It's those little conveniences or safety features that only have to be used once in the entire lifetime of the bike, to make them worth the cost. It's a little like insurance. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| ABS is not a substitute for rider skill. That would be the linked brake system. ABS is just a better braking system. A good rider on an bike without ABS can't brake as well as a good rider on an ABS equipped bike.
That is all.
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | Well put and very true lowtone9. If available when I get my Vision, I'll opt for the ABS.
I scoffed at seat belts, ABS, airbags, and fuel injection when they first came out. I'll not be doing that with ABS on my Vision. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 162
Extreme Southern, AZ United States | Just another piece of complexity to an already overcomplex system. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I'm glad they made it optional, because if I should ever decide to trade my 08 Vision for a newer one, it will not have ABS. I'll take the centerstand and reverse though.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | aaaaahhh! I love the smell of freedom in the morning! |
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ABS as an option ?