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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Wondering if any of you have used a Laminar Lip before.
The benefits seem pretty impressive. I'm wondering if there are any downsides to installing one.
http://www.laminarlip.com/vision.php
(vvisionweb.jpg)
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 vvisionweb.jpg (16KB - 5 downloads)
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Cruiser
Posts: 127
| I haven't seen this before but it looks interesting. You may lose a little bit of mileage from the changed aerodynamics. I find that just raising the windshield clears up any buffeting for me, but I'm just over 6' tall. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Fred thanks for posing this, it is exactly what I've been looking for. The way they work is the air passing through the opening is warmer than the slower air moving across the outside of the attached lip. This creates a low pressure area where the faster warmer air is drawn up or lifted creating a higher pocket. Same principle is used to create lift for aircraft. It should increase mileage a little if it has any impact on mileage at all. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | These guys are about 19 miles down the freeway from me. I'm headed there on Monday to pick one up (assuming that they do "will call" orders).
I'll let you know how it works in practice. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | I didn't know wind buffeting was a problem but I'm approaching the end of my usefulness for the OEM windshield (swirl marks + sunrise/sunset = me leaving my windsheild down). Wish they made an OEM replacement with this added benefit. Be sure and post results if you get it. PS. How hard do you think it would be to clean with this on? I'd be interested to see that result as well.
Edited by bigwill5150 2009-07-26 12:06 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | I have a laminar lip I will return. It works as advertised and it in fact does raise fuel milage. Two things that it does that I did not like are 1) in windy conditions it causes the shield to vibrate forward and back and 2) when passinf truck and does what I just described it also disturbes the steering requiring alot more attention to be needed. I wander if some of this may be absent if the shield did not adjust and have some play in it to begin with. Its too bad because the air behind the laminar lip for the most part is dead still.
Walt
Edited by wroman 2009-07-26 2:29 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | what is that thing? Sorry, I know I try not to be so opinionated about this kind of stuff, I just don't see the benefit of it if it does what I think. I got the taller windshield for the winter and it works fine for me and the WU, and the stock works great for the summer months. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 294
rhode island | lots of testimonials, all sorts of rides but not one vision! I think victory got it right the first time.
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| I tried one on another bike, a Kingpin, and it didn't seem to do anything that a higher windshield wouldn't do, plus I was looking through 2 layers of plexiglass instead of 1. Tried several different positions, and the only way it would really reduce buffeting was if you used it as an actual windshield extension.
There was no benefit that I could detect, for that bike anyway. IMO, it does not do what the manufacturer claims. However, sold it a another guy who owned the same bike, and he loved it.
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Birmingham, AL 08 MC Tour Premium 2012 Bronze Mist | Wroman, do ride a Vision? Was the lip on it? I'm very interested in a Vision riders input. I had a Windbender from Firecreek Accesories, http://www.firecreekacc.com/Windbender_HP.html, on my GL1800 and loved it. As soon as I got a Vision, I contacted them to let them know I'd love one developed for it. Dead still air behind the shield in a lowered, look over the top position. Only one down side, you'd get use to all that calm air and then a bug the size of a Buick hubcap would come thru the air flow and smack you in the face. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 247
| dors this help with buffeting for the passenger. I have no issues withthe shield up but she gets it right across the helpmet. if this works for he I might try one unless it makes this bike handle any worse in the wind. it already sucks in the wind |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | exharleyrider - 2009-07-26 7:03 PM
dors this help with buffeting for the passenger. I have no issues withthe shield up but she gets it right across the helpmet. if this works for he I might try one unless it makes this bike handle any worse in the wind. it already sucks in the wind
Thats what I intend to find out. I'm happy with the stock shield in the full up position at highway speeds but the wife gets beat up pretty bad since she is pushing 6ft tall. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Yes I have a '08 SSG. Two moths old with 5,350 miles. Now running a + 2" cee bailey. Only changed the shield to help with rear passengers claim of buffiting under certail hwy conditions.
Edited by wroman 2009-07-27 9:26 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Walt:
Thanks for the input on your issues with the "lip" . I have a couple of questions.
1) Were you running the 2" over with the lip or the standard victory shield?
2) I am going to assume that the vibration you experienced was with the shield in the full up position. Is that correct?
3) Does it remove for cleaning or do you have to play games to get rid of the grime?
4) When you decided the "Lip" was not for you, how difficult was it to get rid of the adhesive residue on the sheild?
Thanks in advance
Fred |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | bigwill5150 - 2009-07-26 10:02 AM
I didn't know wind buffeting was a problem but I'm approaching the end of my usefulness for the OEM windshield (swirl marks + sunrise/sunset = me leaving my windsheild down). Wish they made an OEM replacement with this added benefit. Be sure and post results if you get it. PS. How hard do you think it would be to clean with this on? I'd be interested to see that result as well.
A nice microfiber cloth is the way to go for cleaning the bike. There are ton of benefits. However, the biggest one you will find is that the windshield won't become useless after cleaning! I had this problem on my older bikes and when I got the vision, I spent 5 bucks at the local Wally World and found that I no longer leave swirl marks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfiber
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Tourer
Posts: 363
Goldsboro, NC | excelboy10 - 2009-07-26 9:35 PM
Only one down side, you'd get use to all that calm air and then a bug the size of a Buick hubcap would come thru the air flow and smack you in the face.
THAT, my friend, is funny. Well spake, sir!
I ride a lot at night after putting the kids to bed. In the year BV (Before Vision, of course) I had a Road King. I got smacked in the face by a bat... two different times. Thank gawd I had a full face shield. Now I ride with a Scorpion half and the aerodynamics of the VV keeps the bugs off my face. No bats yet, either. I'd be hesitant to mess with the windshield. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | The Vision version of this product is made to order; so it's going to be 3-4 days before I see it. I'll let you know and post pics when it arrives. Apparently these things need to be placed / adjusted based on individual parameters. Rider height/ passenger height / screen height and angle, speed.
It look like there may be a period of time where adjustments are needed to get the effect dialed in to our needs.
The higher the screen (on electric adjust) Visions the flatter the profile of the screen to the wind and the less effective the lip will be because less air goes under the wing.
No wonder they offer a 30 day trial.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Laminar shipped my "lip" the same day I ordered it. Which I did not expect. Very good service so far. The person that I spoke to on the phone spent more time than either of us probably needed to, making sure that I understood what I was buying and what I should expect.
Installation is a breeze with all the stuff you need coming in the kit. They even supply you with extra 3m dual locks in case you need to reposition something later. These self adhesive dots are sort of like industrial strength velcro except they are not fabric. When you see them you'll understand.
The installation is very simple using the instructions (I tend to second guess myself on the simple stuff, so igot a little anal with the ruler).
First clean the windshield (using your favorite method) I use Sprayway cleaner. Then use the supplied alcohol wipe to clean the area where the adhesive dual lock dots will be stuck. Let me warn you these things stick quick so be careful aligning them.
I took two of the dual locks and measured the placement on the wing so that they would be in the same place. See picture 1.
After removing the release liner form the dual lock dots I placed "the lip" a little higher than I thought I might need on the windshield being careful to center it and keep the top edge as parallel as I could to the top of the vision shield.
I am 6'5" tall. I mounted the wing so that it extends 2" beyond the standard Vision shield Laminar says is about 1" right for the average Joe. Y'all know how it is with us egomaniacs we cant be average.
I will install the third when I am sure that this is the final placement.
There is also a clear silicone rubber cone that is used as a bumper for the center of the shield to support the wing at high speeds as the wing is pressed inwards. Apply this to the shield centering it on the shield and (hopefully if you've done the job correctly) the wing.
The dual lock adhesive needs 24 hours to set up and at least 70 degree days to be at the proper temp to cure out.
The instructions say not to ride at speed until this time period is passed. They do say that you can ride slowly. So, being impatient I took bike out for a spin to see what my initial impressions were.
Took the bike out on some relatively untravelled surface streets that let me push it up to 60 mpg and keep it there for about a mile.
My initial reaction is that the shield is now usable (for me) up to 60 mph in the full down position. I have no idea how the passenger seat is effected yet. In the full up (almost to high) wind noise is reduced to a level where I hear engine noises that Ive never have heard before; which I have to admit is kind of freaking me out.
After the adhesive has a chance to set up I'm going to take the bike and the wife out on the freeway for a trial under touring conditions and see how it affects the airflow for the passenger. And also to see what happens to the shield when passing big rigs.
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Looks good. Now my next question is how does it impact your line of sight both over and through the windshield? Sorry to use you as the guinea pig but you have the "lip." |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | thanks for posting pictures |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Teach - 2009-07-30 1:33 PM
Looks good. Now my next question is how does it impact your line of sight both over and through the windshield? Sorry to use you as the guinea pig but you have the "lip."
With stock shield in the low position "the lip" is about shoulder height. I'm 6'5", so as they say "results may vary". When the windshield is in the full up position I am looking at the top of the lip in traffic. I may lower the lip about an inch and test it there, as I positioned the dual locks in such a way as to allow me to do this.
However the results look very promising, took a couple of 10 mile runs up and down the freeway at lunch. Speeds as high as 85 with average speed over 70, I found that I like "The Lip" with the shield in the lowest windshield position. It appears to get more efficient at speed. I did not need to raise the shield at all, although I did try it in a variety of positions.
Walt (wroman) is correct; there is a tendency towards more noticeable back and forth movement in the shield when passing trucks or when in the slipstream of other high profile vehicles. I have seen this movement in the stock shield as well but the heavier "line" makes me notice it more. Also I was looking for it due to his observation.
There seems to be a lot of play in the Vision linkage that I want to look at and see if there is a solution. But I must say I do not find it problematic or particularly annoying. It seems to be lessened in the fullly lowered and/or the fully up position.
A couple of other observations. Radio volume can go down a couple of notches and the sound clarity is better - I just saved a bunch of money on high performance speakers and a taller windshield (at twice the cost) of the Laminar "lip".
Once I get the wife on back we'll report passenger observations. I wish it rained here more often so I could test how it responds in "weather".
I did not notice any unusual turbulence effects or steering changes.
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Let us know how it works for the wife unit. I know my tall ws makes it a little better for my wife, but she still gets bumped around. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 110
| I used one on my Kingpin and found no benefit from having it on or off plus the glue destroyes the windshield if you choose to take if off permanently. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| az rob - 2009-07-31 10:26 AM
I used one on my Kingpin and found no benefit from having it on or off plus the glue destroyes the windshield if you choose to take if off permanently.
I had a similar experience with my Kingpin. Apparently the lip works much better on a Vision.
On the Vision, buffeting isn't much of a problem (for me) but on that 'Pin I had to tinker with the shield for days just to get my head still enough to read a road sign. It was a nice cruiser, aside from the concussion. Sometimes I'm almost glad that guy ran the redlight and totalled it for me. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Been riding for two weeks with the lip at this point.
I have been experimenting with various mounting positions and shield heights. As you would expect the factory instructions were pretty much spot on, as I have settled on the lip being mounted so that it extends one inch beyond the edge of the stock shield. This allows me to raise the shield to full extension and yet still see over it when riding though the hills.
You definitely do not want to be looking through the lip and the stock shield at the same time the view distortion is horrendous. This set up requires that you view over the top.
The windshield moves front to back with the lip installed; but this is an issue only when passing trucks or in the slipstream of high profile vehicles. It has little effect on tracking and cross winds don't seem to have any more or less effect on the shield or bike with the lip installed. Although I don't see how one could actually prove this assertion. Its just a seat of the pants observation.
At 6'5" tall I am the biggest sail on the bike, and when a stiff cross wind hits, I find that my body effects the tracking more than anything else because I am actually moving the handle bars. I think that this is due to the laid back riding position that the seat, stock bars and my height impose.
This weekend I was finally able to get the wife on board for a ride to test how it effected the passenger. She feels that it offers improvement in both the wind noise and the buffeting departments. So from that standpoint alone the purchase is a success.
Gas mileage - again I have no way to test this empirically. But with the lip installed and cruise control set I can effect the "instant milage" readout just by raising or lowering the shield. Best milage shows with the shield in the lowest position.
Golly gee wiz Fred, what a surprise!
However it should be noted that when riding solo I can now run freeway speeds with the shield in the lowest position and my comfort (I wear an open face helmet with a sun-visor and specs) and the noise level is greatly improved; as a result this should help lower my fuel consumption on long rides. At 75-80 mph I raise the shield about an inch.
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