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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | What's the real issue with going true dual on the Vision? I've heard there is no benefit and harder to keep tuned. I know there has been some with a true dual, but not heard what the results were. It is just a thought for when I need to replace my stock exhaust. Any feedback from anyone is fine, but would like to hear from those who actually has had it done. Thanks. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | Bumping this thread up. I'd like to hear this one too. EVERYTHING I've been taught about running duals has had a negative impact without a crossover. The only benefit I've EVER witnessed is having a cleaner look if your bike has an over/under exhaust. I had a true dual on my V-star and it was a royal pain in the ass to keep from popping. Anyone got a real benefit? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I haven't put them on the Vision, hell didn't even know anyone made a true dual for it, but you will lose some torque and low end pull even with a controller or power commander. I can't think of any reason to go to duals on a stock motor besides looks. For the HD's it was a means of eliminating the crossover and with it the heat between ones legs. The new HD's have gone to the Victory Vision under the bike crossover to accomplish the same thing.
I know this doesn't answer your question, but might get you started..... T |
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Cruiser
Posts: 137
Houston, Texas | This is an interesting thread in that I have been thinking along that line for several months and was going to ask KevinX for his thoughts.
KevinX.....whats the poop on true duals as opposed to the current stock exhaust????
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 30
| I wasn't aware anyone made true duals for the Vision. I have just completed an install of a 2 into 1 setup with a ghost pipe to simulate true duals. I run true duals on all of my HD's and get no loss in power, it is a wash as I don't get a real gain in power either. My HD's are TC88's so I don't have the big heat issues that the new ones do, I just really like the looks and sound of True Duals, and I don't have popping issues at all. Just a good tuner.
Jeff |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | If you were to put your bike on a dyno with and without a crossover pipe you would see higher power with the crossover installed. Each cylinder exhausts spent gasses at a different time so the flow in each pipe flows, then stops etc. When a crossover is installed, flow to the exit of the pipes is maintained for a longer period which aids in exhaust scavenging. That's why race bikes typically use a 2 into 1 or a 4 into 2 system. This applies to stock and performance engines which see a range of operating RPM's. For all out racing engines like a 1000 hp AA top fuel dragster, they use separate exhausts with very short pipes to achieve maximum flow at insane RPM's and power levels for a very short 1/8 or 1/4 mile duration. Each exhaust pipe has an virtual constant flow due to the extreme RPM's the engine is operating.
Some say using a crossover pipe on a v-twin makes the bike easier to tune. That statement really isn't accurate. What happens is that there is a greater range of adjustment where the engine appears to be running well due to the scavenging in both pipes with a crossover. It is still necessary to perform a complete and proper tuning of the engine to achieve optimal performance. Dyno, exhaust gas monitoring and most importantly a tuner who who not only knows how to perform the tuning, but actually is good at it.
With all other variables being equal, the "street" v-twin with a crossover (or 2 into 1 system) will outperform the true 2 into 2 system every time. Weather or not you're someone who can "feel" the difference, I assure you the difference exists.
Also, given the amount of variables like cams, intake plates, controllers, typical riding conditions, elevation, temp, and state of tune etc, using a crossover or 2 into 1 system may effect how smoothly your engine runs. There are just too many variables to say for sure but in most cases, a 2 into 1 or crossover system is favorable for a v-twin on the street.
I've had many v-twins over the years and have tried many combinations of true dual and 2 into 1 and crossover systems. Usually, the visceral sound of the v-twin is slightly enhanced with a true dual. With that said, the sound is by no means neutered with a 2 into 1 or crossover system and power and the engines ability to expel spent gasses is increased which often results in a better running engine.
Edited by Rob41 2009-08-13 1:43 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | okay, thanks for all the responses, I now can lay another hairbrain idea to rest...
now for the next one... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Rob41 pretty much sums it up acuratly. Couple of other points though.
The firing sequence of a Vic is different then a HD at 410 Degrees, and does not get the real changed up sound when using a dual type system.
In an all out performance motor that does not worry about low-mid power; individual pipes work better |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I had V & H 2 into 1 pipes on two HD's. Big improvement over 3000rpm. Better scavenging at higher rpm. Unless your going racing or run at higher rpm for extended periods. Most pipes arent worth the money. Sound prefrences are why most buy pipes. If you like the sound, buy it. |
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True Dual Exhaust