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Tourer
Posts: 363
Goldsboro, NC | Just turned 8K miles on my Tour. Needed a new rear tire. I'm okay with that. I even knew it was going to be pricey (weird compunds, low volume, I understand).
My dealer is going to charge me $330 for the change ($215 tire, hour and a half install).
That seems to be about $80 high from what I expected.
What have y'all been charged for a new tire? Is my dealer out of line? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 415
| My guy is $250 out the door. He has to compete with all the internet sites selling cheap tires. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | MSRP for the tire is $240
Warranty labor on replacement is 1.0. Based on the standard of multiplying Warranty labor by 1.5 to get CP labor. It sounds like you are getting $25 off the tire.
Now before everyone goes crazy. Warranty time is at the VERY low end of possibility, and in many cases the mechanic LOOSES on that rate. Unfortunately there is no CP flat rate manual for Vics, or it would be used. In the auto industry it is common to find most flat rate books DOUBLE warranty time to come up with CP flat rate | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | make sure you run a constant 40+ in your tire for best milage.
I know my dealer would do the same thing, however, if you take them the wheel off the bike they'll do it for $35.00 flat, at least that is what is was the last time.
also, you could do a search for that tire on other tire suppliers and get it for about $190+ shipping, but hey that could bring it back up to $215.00. It is a GL1800 Goldwing tire so it is very easy to find and on sale. But no, what you said is not out of line for many places. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Can you get a road hazard warranty for motorcycle tires? If yes, how much is it? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND | I know the debate rages on Car Tires and I would certainly not suggest someone else put one on their motorcycle...and I'm certainly not interested in being chastised, but....here's my story. I recently put a car tire on my Vision. It rides better than a motorcycle tire in a straight line. It does curves very nicely also. I purchased the tire for $85 plus shipping and have Harbor Freight mounting and balancing equipment, so the cost was just a labor of love. I'm 'in' for probably 25,000 to 30,000 miles for $100.
YMMV
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Flat six that is GREAT. Have you had any air pressure issues, or is the tire beeding properly?? I had not heard of a dark side Vision before. What size tire?? | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | radioteacher - 2009-07-15 12:06 PM
Can you get a road hazard warranty for motorcycle tires? If yes, how much is it?
My dealer sells a road hazard tire warranty. It is like any other insurance policy, bring the tire back to them and they pro-rate the tire and then in stall a new one. It is not through the tire company. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | Flatsix,
What brand and size did you end up going with? When miine is due I'm going Dark Side as well. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | $250 installed with taxes in at #57's dealer | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | as a tip, I usually find out when the next big sale is going to be at my dealer 10% - 20% off, depending when. Like for Father's Day on the week prior stuff was 20% off so that is when I made the belt and tire purchase and saved a few dollars for my 45K service that I did myself, saving a lot on labor. I guess I'm just cheap, but not easy. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | this is the exact reason why i am going to learn how to remove the rear wheel myself and just bring them the rim and let them put a new tire on it and then balance it.. if i can change the tire myself i would and then purchase that self balancing bead stuff.. btw i have 9000 miles and my tire is still in pretty good shape.. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 212
Tavares, Fl | I got 8500 miles on my rear tire, but I do mostly two up and often tow a Bunkhouse camper. I took the rear wheel off myself, bought the guage to set the belt at JP cycles, had the tire mounted at a bike shop for $30.00 and reinstalled it myself. The rear wheel adjustment was tricky but I learned it and am glad I did.... | |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | I use my unauthorized Victory mechanic to do most of my work. He is bad about letting me do most of the work, he just keeps an eye on what I'm doing and lets me know if I'm about to f-up. So far, I have learned to change the tires, wheel bearings, fork oil, clutch, drive belt and several minor things. I have worked on cars, so turning wrenches on the bike was not to bad. Even on the older bikes, Victory done a lot of thinking when they put them together so you could replace what breaks/ wears out very easy. Best thing to do is buy a service manual. A set of tires for the Vision run somewhere in the $350 range and I have never had to balance them. There is a dot somewhere on the sidewall that lines up with the valve stem. That is the light spot in the tire. Most of the time, that takes care of the balance. Your wheel should be balanced at the factory without the tire, so you are good to go once you replace the tire. ET | |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
I'll try to get some photos ready and posted on my car tire in the next day or two!
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Flatsix - 2009-07-15 11:18 PM
I'll try to get some photos ready and posted on my car tire in the next day or two!
I don't know why, but the thought of a car tire on the Bentley gives me the willies. I actually thought I would go there and had myself psyched up to order one. Then I got that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach like I did when I read this post.
My major concern is, what does it really do in the heat of the moment when you have to do that evasive manuever? Does the tire feel like it is fighting you back in the turns on twisties or is it going with the flow?
On the Wing (GL1200) and that tube frame that flexes I felt like I was fighting the bike to do things, like it was my skill verses the bikes ability to get me through.
With the Vision, that experiece is totally different and in even the hairiest of turns I feel like I'm along for the ride, yet in total control. I don't want to go back to that old feeling.
Just curious and still probing the idea in a very remote sort of way. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Having the Victory dealer change the tire is going to be high cost, unless you have a prepaid maintenance contract. The ~$200 for the rear tire is pretty normal, I can get it for $199 here in my area at a motorcycle tire shop. If I bring them the rim, its is $35 to change the tire. If I bring in the bike it is $65. When I had my Kingpin I had the dealer put on my first back tire, and the last. Cost ~$350.00.
For those that want to remove the rear tire, it is pretty simple, you can have it off in 10 minutes. Putting it back on is a little longer and advise to have an extra pair of hands there to help, but one person can do it. I have some pictures posted on my gallary that shows the process.
varyder, if your thinking about running a car tire, don't fret about it, for ~$100 you might as well try it. If you don't like it, take it off. It's not like your throwing on a 10" wide tire on back there. With the 5" rim on the Vision you have to run a tire with about the same cross section as the E-3 which is ~7". Flatsix, what is the tire size that you put on? | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | I have the Safeguard tire and wheel protection. It was $399 for 5 years. Covers a new tire plus labor even if you just pick up a nail. The catch is there must be at least 3/32 tread left. I have had two rear flats in the 17,000 miles and both have been covered. I'm 200 bucks ahead and still have four years left on the contract. It also will cover a new wheel it you hit something in the road and damage it. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 363
Goldsboro, NC | Thanks, all you guys for the responses. I have not generally been very happy with my dealer, so I'm immedialtely suspicious. (I'm the guy who bought a tour converted from a street.... and now have a separate key for the trunk... errrg) Thank gawd I love the bike so much that I can overlook the few little things.
At any rate, $330 to change the tire out may be a smidge high, but not out of line.
Thanks again. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | cw1115 - 2009-07-16 9:58 AM
I have the Safeguard tire and wheel protection. It was $399 for 5 years. Covers a new tire plus labor even if you just pick up a nail. The catch is there must be at least 3/32 tread left. I have had two rear flats in the 17,000 miles and both have been covered. I'm 200 bucks ahead and still have four years left on the contract. It also will cover a new wheel it you hit something in the road and damage it.
Michael,
How does it work if you have less than 3/32 on the center but more on the edge?
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Michael,
Thanks for the response. I almost forgot I asked it. Where can I sign up for Safeguard if I want it?
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Not sure. I thing it has alot to do with the dealer. I had it on my yamaha and the service tech was being a jerk. It was right on the 3/32" line. Went and got the manager. He didn't even look and told him to give me a new tire. If it is obvious that the tire is worn out you are not covered. As far as where to get it. The Victory dealer I bought the bike from gave me a run around so I went back to the Yamaha dealer and they wrote the policy for me. I think if you don't get it when you buy the bike there is a 30 waiting period before it takes effect. When I get home I'll find the webite for you, they might have a list of agents that can sell you a policy.
Edited by cw1115 2009-07-16 1:58 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| trailbarge - 2009-07-15 11:24 AM
Just turned 8K miles on my Tour. Needed a new rear tire. I'm okay with that. I even knew it was going to be pricey (weird compunds, low volume, I understand).
My dealer is going to charge me $330 for the change ($215 tire, hour and a half install).
That seems to be about $80 high from what I expected.
What have y'all been charged for a new tire? Is my dealer out of line?
You can order the tire from Dennis Kirk and have it 2 days later for $186 total. So you are really paying your dealer $144 for a 45 minute job. And before anyone claims it takes longer, the local Yammie dealer changed mine in 45 minutes (rolled into the shop and back out ready to go) and charged $70...
I think you are getting ripped personally....But there are people that pay $89 for an oil change on the Vision too....I guess it depends on how hard you want to get boned.
On a related issue....You need to make sure you are right around 40 psi always on that rear tire....I ride like a total ass and still got 12,500 out of my rear tire. It is all about the psi. I keep mine about 42/41 to 41/40. I don't let the rear or front go below 40. I have 19,000 on the front tire with a few thousand left. Unfortunately, will be doing 4,500 miles here in about 10 days for Sturgis and Billings....So I have to replace that sucker early. But wearing out a rear on a Vision in less than 10,000 miles has got to be too many burnouts, or low air pressure....
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | gopher, I mean golfer, I like your eloquence. I'm ready to go to Sturis, but I don't have the days to take. enjoy! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | golfer - 2009-07-16 2:07 PM
You can order the tire from Dennis Kirk and have it 2 days later for $186 total. So you are really paying your dealer $144 for a 45 minute job. And before anyone claims it takes longer, the local Yammie dealer changed mine in 45 minutes (rolled into the shop and back out ready to go) and charged $70...
, and when the good mechanics leave the dealer you have nobody to blame, but yourself. That way you van have a wet behind the ears kid doing the crucial stuff to your bike. Then again since the deler went out of bussines because he was not allowed a reasonable profit. It won't matter. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-16 3:37 PM
golfer - 2009-07-16 2:07 PM
You can order the tire from Dennis Kirk and have it 2 days later for $186 total. So you are really paying your dealer $144 for a 45 minute job. And before anyone claims it takes longer, the local Yammie dealer changed mine in 45 minutes (rolled into the shop and back out ready to go) and charged $70...
, and when the good mechanics leave the dealer you have nobody to blame, but yourself. That way you van have a wet behind the ears kid doing the crucial stuff to your bike. Then again since the deler went out of bussines because he was not allowed a reasonable profit. It won't matter.
If it takes a dealer 45 minutes to put on a tire....Why do they need to charge for over 2 hours? That makes no sense. I realize a dealer needs to turn a profit. But it is this kind of bullshit that drives people to the internet and "do it yourself" to avoid getting raped. If the dealers would just charge a reasonable amount, they would get more business and do better overall....I can see the dealer making a small profit on the tire, and charging an hour for the install....But why an hour and a half? My yammie dealer had never even seen a Vision before and they had me in and out in 45 minutes....Dennis Kirk makes money selling the same tire at $186. Why does the dealer need to tack on so much more? So the next time the customer brings in his own tire after being butt raped? Oh well, I am arguing with the enemy.... 
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | Varyder,
I understand your doubts about going to the Dark Side. All I can do is tell you my experiences. Before I bought my V I rode a 2000 Valkyrie Tourer for over eight years and 56k miles. I still work so I can't ride as much as I would like. Anyway, the last 28k plus miles was on two car tires. The first tire lasted 23k plus miles and the second was still on the bike when I traded. Like you I was hesitant to make the change. Once I had it on, I was sold. Did the bike handle a little different? Sure. If there are grooves in the rode, the bike will want to follow them. A little more counter steering is all that's needed. That was really the only difference I experienced. I had no problems making quick maneuvers or with cornering. I have tried to make the tire scoot in a turn, and it wouldn't. I had no trouble scraping boards. The big advantanges to me were lots more rubber on the road, great in the rain, no locking up of the rear wheel coming to a panic stop, at least double the mileage, the cost of the tire, and besides it looks cool. My V has only 5600 miles on her now, but when the time comes I will go back to the Dark Side. If you want more information, there are lots of posts on VRCC board from guys who understand the mechanics a lot better than me. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Thanks Grey Rider, I appreciate the feedback. I guess I've got to one on a Vision and then think about it some more. I wouldn't have a problem in spending the c-note to see how it does, as I have comptemplating getting a second wheel, one for the darkside and one for the E3. I spend a lot of riding going back and ford to work, about 75 to 100 miles a day and that eats away from my real riding 'ventures. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | golfer - 2009-07-16 4:54 PM
kevinx - 2009-07-16 3:37 PM
golfer - 2009-07-16 2:07 PM
You can order the tire from Dennis Kirk and have it 2 days later for $186 total. So you are really paying your dealer $144 for a 45 minute job. And before anyone claims it takes longer, the local Yammie dealer changed mine in 45 minutes (rolled into the shop and back out ready to go) and charged $70...
, and when the good mechanics leave the dealer you have nobody to blame, but yourself. That way you van have a wet behind the ears kid doing the crucial stuff to your bike. Then again since the deler went out of bussines because he was not allowed a reasonable profit. It won't matter.
If it takes a dealer 45 minutes to put on a tire....Why do they need to charge for over 2 hours? That makes no sense. I realize a dealer needs to turn a profit. But it is this kind of bullshit that drives people to the internet and "do it yourself" to avoid getting raped. If the dealers would just charge a reasonable amount, they would get more business and do better overall....I can see the dealer making a small profit on the tire, and charging an hour for the install....But why an hour and a half? My yammie dealer had never even seen a Vision before and they had me in and out in 45 minutes....Dennis Kirk makes money selling the same tire at $186. Why does the dealer need to tack on so much more? So the next time the customer brings in his own tire after being butt raped? Oh well, I am arguing with the enemy....
This is another one of those interesting debates, and I can hold to both positions. I know my dealer needs business to stay in business. I've gone on record here on this forum in having been rather upset with my dealer, therefore they've gotten a lot less of my business. But I have to say they are the nicest people in the whole wide world, top notch and have a lot of respect for them, enjoy talking to them, and will stop by just to let them know I'm still around and buy stuff to support the cause.
But I've learned to work on my own bike and can have it back on the road quicker by doing my own service. They seem to be loaded with business and selling bikes so we both win. I was able to fix my popping issue even when I was told every '08 did that. Well, come check out one that doesn't. All I did was clean the ends of my malformed header pipes and replaced the gasket. It seems to be running better all the time to the point I can't remember exactly the last time it even coughed.
I still take my tires there, as opposed to taking it to any number of shops that are even closer, because I like to keep the relationship, they just can't keep my bike.
BTW, if I can get the tires considerably cheaper else where, I'll do so and have them to mount them, if they can get me a good deal on a sale, I let them get 'em and mount them, and they seem to be okay. Actually, it was them doing the tires for my GoldWing, 2 mounted for $70.00 in about an hour for both is what turned me on to them.
Edited by varyder 2009-07-16 5:04 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | First off a Vic dealer pays more for the tire then you did from Dennis Kirk. Screwed up, but true. That is part of the issue. Vic puts it to dealers, and the savings get passed on. Look at the Dunlop for the TC. Marked as an HD tire it sold for around $100. From Vic cost was close to $200
Warrenty time for the most part screws mechanics. The same people that list the rear tire for 1 hour; are the same sorry fucks that said the headlight bulbs could be changed in a half hour. Much of this has to work out in averages. Some people can jam out tires, and some feel it is important to take their time to be sure the axle is cleaned, and lubed. The bearings are checked, and cleaned. The tire, and wheel are balanced. The belt is the right tension, and tracks correctly. How many of those steps were skipped on that 45 minute change. Did they even know the correct belt tension?? Do you???
I am not the enamy. I am a guy that dies a goiod job, and makes no excuses for it. If you don't want to pay for someone like me. Then you get what you deserve. To be honest I HATE doing tires. It ussualy takes a tick longer then I get paid, and I have to listen to some ass bag whine about price. We charge .5 for a front, 1.5 for a rear with bags, and 1.0 for a bike without bags.
Finally I made a BUNCH more money as an automotive mechanic, and I do this as a passion. So just so you know.....You get charged way more to work on your car in labor then you will ever be charged for your bike. They have all those nice books to justify the labor on any job. On top of that if you brought your parts to my shop, then you not only had ZERO warrenty; you paid an extra 15% labor to make up for my loss
Edited by kevinx 2009-07-16 6:18 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | +1 for Kevins reply. I know i can get some work done cheaper at other places, but I know my mechanic. I know he takes the time to do the job right, whatever it may be. He rides a Vision, the owner rides a Vision, and both know what is what. Yes 95% of the time you do get what you pay for...now when it comes to doodads I shop around, but when it comes to service on my bike, I have a one stop shop that will do what is needed.
mike | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | As I read my last post I would like to apologise for my ass bag comment. I guess I just find it frustrating to hear someone that prolly pays monthly $100+ for cell phone, another $100 for cable, say that mechanics are screwing them. I make a small percentage of the hourly charge, but have well over $20K in tools.
Now if I could just find a bank that was not screwing me by charging $172,000.00 across the life of my mortgage in interest. Seems like they should be happy with only charging $70,000. That would be fair. Oh yea they are a for profit bussiness | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | what do they call that, supply and demand. Sure some folks have an upper hands of sorts, and it really sucks to be a Victory "dealer" because they do seem stuck in the middle. But in the big scheme of things, none of them are dependant on me, as one person, to buy from them. As a peddler of a product it is up to the peddler to incite the need to get the draw and thus the profit. Just because I bought a Victory that puts no obligations on me for a dealer do anything, they are there to support the customer if they want business.
I understand the scratching back and in our little world it does have an impact, but it lays no obligation on the buyer.
Reminds me of a little grocery store in North Carolina that was close to my house that I would shop at. Truly they were a mom and pop operation and had been in business for years when a Winn Dixie was put right next door. I commented one day as to that move and if they were concerned with the competition. The reply was "no, they don't know our market like we do." Well, 20 years later they are still in business going stronger than ever doing the same old thing the same old way and Winn Dixie is closed.
They never MADE anyone shop there or made anyone feel guilty if they didn't. They knew their market and they catered to it, and the rest took care of itself. Wow, new concept or what?
Edited by varyder 2009-07-16 9:36 PM
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Visionary
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Memphis | The Vision is the only vehicle I have ever owned that the dealer has done 100% of the maintenance on it. I'm not afraid of wrenching on my own stuff but I somehow bonded with the guys at my local shop the very first time I went there. There are only four employees (manager, sales guy, lead mechanic, 2nd mechanic) and I will go to the wall for them. I bought one of the first Visions released and when the manager found out I wanted a Midnight Cherry Premium Tour he told me that he had ordered that exact model as his dealer pre-order bike and I could have that one as soon as it came in. That was July, '07. I got my bike in November and visited the dealership nearly every week for the four months that I waited. I found them to be extremely straight shooters and were genuinely interested in answering every question to the best of their abilities. I have only had to leave my bike overnight one time (fork oil and tire change). Every other time I just give them a two day heads-up and I'm taken care of as soon as I arrive at the shop. I always get the latest downloads without having to ask and any service bulletins are also addressed immediately. I sleep like a baby knowing my Vision is one of the best running in the country and I'd go to Alaska tomorrow on it if I had the time. My guys at FRS Powersports get 100% of the credit for that feeling. | |
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Visionary
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San Antonio, TX | Kevin,
I agree with many points of view from all sides of this thread.
I understand were you are comming from. Working on Computers eleven years ago my billable time would be as high as $187.50. I wish I could have taken that home. Almost all of that had to pay for the people supporting me at the office. At the time, it really ticked a few lawyers off that I billed higher then they did.
Kevin, I now work at a bank on computer stuff. I wonder the same about my mortgage as you do.
All,
The first set of tires, I will let the dealer install. Later, I will do a few myself.
Twenty-eight years ago a friend (now deceased) and I worked at Joe Ed Meyers Full and Self Service Exxon in Rockport, Texas. We were Seniors in High School. First thing Joe taught us was tire repair. Impact wrench to take them off and a torque wrench to put them on. We balanced them with a bubble. Used a soapy water bath to find the leak. Joe told us to take the time to patch it right the first time. I had a bad habit of sitting when putting on a tire. Joe would jump on me hard if he caught me doing it. Good for him.
You lubricate the bead the step on the air valve while holding the tire to the top bead and you are set. Well most of the time.
Before airing up the repaired tire we were instructed to loosen the nut holding down the rim. A few weeks later, someone forgot to do this and the steel rod that holds the rim down to the machine made a nice hole in the fourteen foot high ceiling above the machine. I am glad I was off that day.
After working at Joe's for a week someone came in with a flat small lawn mower tire. A thorn go figure. Joe called me over and taught me how use a bead breaker hammer and a couple of tire irons to get the tube out of that small tire without causing more damage. Then repair the tube and put the tire back on the rim. After that, everyone at the station SAVED all of the tires that would not work on the machine for me. Thanks Joe. Those little tires really sucked.
I will change my tires some day because I like a challenge, not to save money. It is a filthy dirty job but someone has to do it.
Sorry that was a bit long.
Edited by radioteacher 2009-07-17 12:44 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-16 6:08 PM
First off a Vic dealer pays more for the tire then you did from Dennis Kirk. Screwed up, but true.
How many of those steps were skipped on that 45 minute change. Did they even know the correct belt tension?? Do you???
1) If a Vic dealer pays more for the tire than I do at Dennis Kirk, then a dealer should just buy from Dennis Kirk...Come one Kevin, I am not that stupid to have missed that obvious bs...Or are dealers really ignorant enough to not want to save money? Come on....
2) I am sure none of those steps were missed, and the tech actually asked me for my manual so he could get proper tension. And I bet there is an update to the manual for tension, but mine is not squeeking now so I could care less...And no, I don't know the tension, I don't need to since I have someone else do that stuff....Funny how my belt squeeked for the first 12,500 miles, and stopped squeeking after I had my tire changed at a Yamaha dealership in 45 minutes....
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Cruiser
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Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | trailbarge - 2009-07-16 11:31 AM
Thanks, all you guys for the responses. I have not generally been very happy with my dealer, so I'm immedialtely suspicious. (I'm the guy who bought a tour converted from a street.... and now have a separate key for the trunk... errrg) Thank gawd I love the bike so much that I can overlook the few little things.
At any rate, $330 to change the tire out may be a smidge high, but not out of line.
Thanks again.
Trailbarge, the same thing happened to me, I ordered a tour and got a separate key for the trunk, actually, only one key and found out it didn't work on the trunk lock. They dealer tried slipping me a separate key with a new trunk lock. I didn't accept this, and asked to speak to their regional manager, which of course didn't happen as well. I then explained that they sold me a false bill of goods, and how would their regional manger like to talk to my lawyer instead.
I wasn't coming down on my dealer, but Victory and their way of handling customers. I then informed him that any competent lock smith can reprogram the trunk lock to match the ignition. He was not aware that this could be done. He swapped out my trunk lock with his demo bike so that I could lock mine until this repair could be done.
The lock smith took all of 15 minutes, I do not know what the dealer paid to have this done, but I do know he paid for it out of his own pocket. I thanked him repeatedly for stepping up to the plate to correct this.
If your dealer won't do it, take the lock out of the trunk and bring it into a lock smith along with the key code that was on the tab along with the spare set of ignition keys. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-16 9:13 PM
As I read my last post I would like to apologise for my ass bag comment. I guess I just find it frustrating to hear someone that prolly pays monthly $100+ for cell phone, another $100 for cable, say that mechanics are screwing them. I make a small percentage of the hourly charge, but have well over $20K in tools.
Now if I could just find a bank that was not screwing me by charging $172,000.00 across the life of my mortgage in interest. Seems like they should be happy with only charging $70,000. That would be fair. Oh yea they are a for profit bussiness
FYI.....My cell phone bill is $65 a month and covers my phone as well as my gf's phone. I know there are much more expensive companies offering identical service. But I prefer the $65 price tag. I guess I could pay $35 more a month to keep the greedy companies in business better....
I pay $125 month for cable. I have no other choice.
And if a bank charged you half as much they would cease to exist. I myself am a loan officer for a credit union, and we are 100% non profit. We price our loans as low as we can and still survive. And we pay out dividends as high as we can and still survive. The banks are not making their money on high rates on mortgages. The good profit comes from ridiculous fees on checking and savings accounts, believe it or not.
And just a little tutorial on interest rates for you. A lending institution will price loans according to 4 main drivers: spread, competition, need, risk
The spread is the difference between what the lender is paying in dividends, compared to what they are receiving in interest. The basic rule of thumb is about 2 to 3%. That is to say, if cd specials are out that are 2.5%, you will see long term mortgage rates around 4.5 to 5.5%.
Competition will dictate how much a lender can spread that figure. After all, if one place is too high for rates, a person will go somewhere else (sound familiar?).
Need.....A lender is in a constant battle to balance how much money they hold in deposits, compared to how much they have loaned out. An example, if a lender has 10 million in deposits, they would want about 9.5 million loaned out. If they take too much in for deposits, they then need to loan more out to equal out. They may be inclined to reduce loan rates to get rid of some money in effect. If you see in the paper a lender with really low loan rates, they have too much cash. If you see really high cd rates, the need money to be able to lend.
Risk....You obviously have seen that some places charge really high rates, wether it is mortgages, credit cards, whatever...A person borrowing money represents a risk. Credit, income, etc determines that risk. A lender realizes there will be a certain loss expected within these risk divisions. The rates are priced accordingly to make up for the inevitable loss of a portion of the portfolio.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | thanks golfer, I always wanted to know how that worked but was afraid to ask. It goes to show that Vision-Riders is becoming our one-stop shop for information.
Now if I could some information on that water heater OOOOO000000ooooooooo............ | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | golfer - 2009-07-17 8:45 AM
And if a bank charged you half as much they would cease to exist. I myself am a loan officer for a credit union, and we are 100% non profit. We price our loans as low as we can and still survive.
My point EXACTLY.If we all cut our prices in half WE WOULD CEASE TO EXSIST. Nobody in the Motorcycle service industry is getting rich. With all the poor business men in this industry; that cut each others throat until they all go out of business. It is tough to charge an amount that keeps the doors open without being called a crook. I have owned, and sold to rather successful auto repair shops, and you either payed my price, or took a hike. Thing is in the auto business the weak get weeded out quickly. While in the bike end of things peoples pride keeps them standing on the decks of sinking ships.
BTW you do have a choice on your cable bill, and cut cut it by 2/3, but you CHOOSE to have the level of service you enjoy. Also take note that your combined bills equal $195 which is only $5 off what I said that you pay monthly. While I am at it I call BS on 2 phones for $65 unless it is pay as you go, and that is the base pay with 100 minutes | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-17 9:57 AM
golfer - 2009-07-17 8:45 AM
BTW you do have a choice on your cable bill, and cut cut it by 2/3, but you CHOOSE to have the level of service you enjoy. Also take note that your combined bills equal $195 which is only $5 off what I said that you pay monthly. While I am at it I call BS on 2 phones for $65 unless it is pay as you go, and that is the base pay with 100 minutes
Yes, I do have a choice to reduce my service on cable, I choose not to. But if a cheaper alternative came along with the same or slightly less service, I would switch in a second. You are comparing apples to oranges. I can get a tire switched out for $70 just as fast and well as paying $144 for the same thing. That is what I call bullshit...It is what it is, the same damn service. I don't see the correlation between a cell phone bill and a tire install.
I have 3,000 minutes a month, free long distance, free roaming. It is $65, and that includes taxes and fees. And if you want to put your money where your mouth is, I'll bet you my bike to yours that my cell bill is less than $70/month and includes the above mentioned perks, as well as 2 phones. Your turn?
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | varyder - 2009-07-17 7:03 AM
thanks golfer, I always wanted to know how that worked but was afraid to ask. It goes to show that Vision-Riders is becoming our one-stop shop for information.
Now if I could some information on that water heater OOOOO000000ooooooooo............
OK- How about this as a rational for a water heater thread?
Evel Knievel (a famous motorcyclist) was in the 1974 Film "Freebie and the Bean" with James Caan who was in the 2009 film "New York, I Love You" with Kevin Bacon, who worked with Rance Howard in "Frost/Nixon" (2008), who was in "Back to Midnight" (2002) with Ed Begley Jr who is a serious environmentalist and advocate for saving water and energy.
Who makes the best tankless? | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois | Normally I lurk a lot here but this is a subject so near and dear to me....
Having been involved with manufacturing all my life and watching so much of our manufacturing go out of the country to the cheapest source, and also having commanded a wage that is higher than most hourly workers, I say phoooooie to cheap labor. There IS no such thing.
I wouldn't buy the cheapest shoes; they'd make my legs hurt. I wouldn't want to fly in a plane if the air traffic controller was the cheapest that could be found. I wouldn't want to eat the cheapest food that could be sold or go to the cheapest doctor I could find.
If I needed an lawyer, I definately would not look for the cheapest one.
When I bought my Vision, I passed up the dealer that was the closest to me even though he probably would have beaten the price I paid at the dealer I did buy from because the place I chose to spend my money has a reputation for service. And I've received excellent service.
SO, while riding down life's highway on my Vision, I think not once about paying Randy's Cycle almost 300 bucks for the rear tire plus mounting, taxes, disposal fees, etc.
I can't imagine riding my bike with the cheapest deal I could find on a tire. I'm not that crazy.
+1 for KevinX. He so obviously takes pride in his work. Pride plus experience and talent costs, but cheap labor is much more expensive when the chips are down.
I DO shop for the cheapest interest rates. When the chips are down and if I run out of all luck and money, having paid a higher interest rate won't help me at all. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| WillieByte - 2009-07-17 12:03 PM
Normally I lurk a lot here but this is a subject so near and dear to me....
Having been involved with manufacturing all my life and watching so much of our manufacturing go out of the country to the cheapest source, and also having commanded a wage that is higher than most hourly workers, I say phoooooie to cheap labor. There IS no such thing.
I wouldn't buy the cheapest shoes; they'd make my legs hurt. I wouldn't want to fly in a plane if the air traffic controller was the cheapest that could be found. I wouldn't want to eat the cheapest food that could be sold or go to the cheapest doctor I could find.
If I needed an lawyer, I definately would not look for the cheapest one.
When I bought my Vision, I passed up the dealer that was the closest to me even though he probably would have beaten the price I paid at the dealer I did buy from because the place I chose to spend my money has a reputation for service. And I've received excellent service.
SO, while riding down life's highway on my Vision, I think not once about paying Randy's Cycle almost 300 bucks for the rear tire plus mounting, taxes, disposal fees, etc.
I can't imagine riding my bike with the cheapest deal I could find on a tire. I'm not that crazy.
+1 for KevinX. He so obviously takes pride in his work. Pride plus experience and talent costs, but cheap labor is much more expensive when the chips are down.
I DO shop for the cheapest interest rates. When the chips are down and if I run out of all luck and money, having paid a higher interest rate won't help me at all.
In case everyone missed my point.........The place I brought my bike is excellent with customer service as well as mechanical know how...And they happen to be close, and they happen to be reasonably priced...So my very basic of points is that to pay twice as much for the same service is nuts.....That's all.
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | golfer - 2009-07-17 10:10 AM
I have 3,000 minutes a month, free long distance, free roaming. It is $65, and that includes taxes and fees. And if you want to put your money where your mouth is, I'll bet you my bike to yours that my cell bill is less than $70/month and includes the above mentioned perks, as well as 2 phones. Your turn?
You know when I see this kind of bravado it just flies the flag higher. I do not bet, but I still say you are full of it. Prove me wrong so that I can switch providers. Until then I do not believe.
Point is that you are willing to spend ridiculous money to pay for cable, but then you are just a cheapo for your motorcycle. You never did answer my question though. Did either you, or the tech know what the proper belt tension was, and how it should be measured?? Hell what was your axle torqued to???
Edited by kevinx 2009-07-17 12:21 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-17 12:17 PM
golfer - 2009-07-17 10:10 AM
I have 3,000 minutes a month, free long distance, free roaming. It is $65, and that includes taxes and fees. And if you want to put your money where your mouth is, I'll bet you my bike to yours that my cell bill is less than $70/month and includes the above mentioned perks, as well as 2 phones. Your turn?
You know when I see this kind of bravado it just flies the flag higher. I do not bet, but I still say you are full of it. Prove me wrong so that I can switch providers. Until then I do not belive.
Point is that you are willing to spend rediculas money to pay for cable, but then you are just a cheapo for your motorcycle. You never did answer my question though. Did either you, or the tech know what the proper belt tension was, and haow it should be measured?? Hell what was your axle torqued to???
Item 1:
I have AT&T, and it used to be Cellular One. I took out this plan almost 4 years ago, and have never renewed the contract. I called AT&T a year ago to see what other plans were available as I wanted new phones. They actually told me never, ever, ever to change my plan until I absolutely am forced to. The same plan I have now would be $90/month. So hopefully you believe me now, as I have no reason to lie about a cell phone bill. It still has nothing to do with paying twice as much for the same service. If you want to make a point of cell phone bills, it should be that I pay $130/month when I could be paying $65/month....Then the correlation would make sense...As far as bravado, when I bet, I bet....I know what I pay, so I layed out a bet for a bike for a bike. That is not bravado, that is calling your hand. And you folded.
Item 2:
I am not cheaping out on my bike by paying half as much as someone else for the "SAME" service...How is that cheap? I call it smart....And still, yes I pay alot for cable, because there is not another cheaper option for what I am getting for that price....Don't you get the point Kevin??? If there were cheaper service for cable and internet I would use that service instead...Cable in my area is sort of like a one saloon town...If you want a drink, you have to go to that saloon...Doesn't matter what they charge, you either pay it or don't drink.
Item 3)
I specifically answered your question, SPECIFICALLY!!! Go back up and read my post. I said the tech asked for my manual so he could get the right specs for the belt. And the manual spells out SPECIFICALLY how to adjust the belt. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| Oh.....And Kevin.....You never commented on a dealership paying more for a tire than can be purchased through Dennis Kirk...And why the dealership would continue to not buy form Dennis Kirk if that were true....Curious................  | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Item 1] Show me a bill in Montana, and I'll buy you dinner, or fail to, and you can buy mine. that is a bet. What you are talking about is a bluff, and I call it with a reasonable bet
#2 Your right you are getting what you pay for in cable, and the reason is in item #3
#3] If you used the service manual then your belt tension is WRONG. Had you brought it to a dealer for service he would have known that the original deflection was changed DRASTICALLY, and that it is still wrong in the 09 book. Yea you saved by having a job done improperly
BTW a dividend is just a multi sylable word for profit. So if you are paying dividends to your investors; then you ARE making a profit, and you could therefore lower your rates | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Oh yea I would just like to say that I asm done here. This thread has just turned into a head banging match, and has gone far enough for me. My final thoughts are that if you pay for cheap service by people without intamte knowledge of your machine. You might as well get Goober from the Andy Grifith show, and when you go back to that shop, and find that all of the employees have changed, or the doors were closed. You will know why. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-17 12:53 PM
Item 1] Show me a bill in Montana, and I'll buy you dinner, or fail to, and you can buy mine. that is a bet. What you are talking about is a bluff, and I call it with a reasonable bet
#2 Your right you are getting what you pay for in cable, and the reason is in item #3
#3] If you used the service manual then your belt tension is WRONG. Had you brought it to a dealer for service he would have known that the original deflection was changed DRASTICALLY, and that it is still wrong in the 09 book. Yea you saved by having a job done improperly
BTW a dividend is just a multi sylable word for profit. So if you are paying dividends to your investors; then you ARE making a profit, and you could therefore lower your rates
1) DEAL!!!!
2) ?
3) I also stated that it was probably wrong...Do you read??? And if it were done properly, I would probably have my squeel back like everyone else...I don't care if it is wright or wrong, it works and it is quiet....And I have another 6,500 miles on it since.
4) A dividend is being paid to the member/customer Kevin. We do not have investors, we are 100 % non profit. I already explained that but I guess you are having trouble reading today??? And a dividend in my credit union is simply interest on their savings/checking/cd or ira....That is to say, if you have money in a savings account you are paid interest/dividend on the money. BTW... | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-17 1:02 PM
Oh yea I would just like to say that I asm done here. This thread has just turned into a head banging match, and has gone far enough for me. My final thoughts are that if you pay for cheap service by people without intamte knowledge of your machine. You might as well get Goober from the Andy Grifith show, and when you go back to that shop, and find that all of the employees have changed, or the doors were closed. You will know why.
Last word.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | WillieByte - 2009-07-17 10:03 AM
Normally I lurk a lot here but this is a subject so near and dear to me....
Having been involved with manufacturing all my life and watching so much of our manufacturing go out of the country to the cheapest source, and also having commanded a wage that is higher than most hourly workers, I say phoooooie to cheap labor. There IS no such thing.
I wouldn't buy the cheapest shoes; they'd make my legs hurt. I wouldn't want to fly in a plane if the air traffic controller was the cheapest that could be found. I wouldn't want to eat the cheapest food that could be sold or go to the cheapest doctor I could find.
If I needed an lawyer, I definately would not look for the cheapest one.
When I bought my Vision, I passed up the dealer that was the closest to me even though he probably would have beaten the price I paid at the dealer I did buy from because the place I chose to spend my money has a reputation for service. And I've received excellent service.
SO, while riding down life's highway on my Vision, I think not once about paying Randy's Cycle almost 300 bucks for the rear tire plus mounting, taxes, disposal fees, etc.
I can't imagine riding my bike with the cheapest deal I could find on a tire. I'm not that crazy.
.
WB:
Your post reminds me of a movie line that my daughter loves from "Mission to Mars/Armageddon" (1998) and goes like this;
' You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?'
Which was borrowed (and expanded upon) from the late astronaut Alan Shepard, who is quoted as having said "`I wasn't scared, but I was up there looking around, and suddenly I realized I was sitting on top of a rocket built by the lowest bidder.'"
I realize that paying more does not guarantee a better level of service or quality but ...........in my experience the cheapest products and services are usually the cheapest for a reason. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | To answer my own question, the correct size Dark Side tire for the Vision is 205/60/16. I got the info from the Dark Side site;
http://forums.delphiforums.com/DarkSiding/start | |
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WOW - is this out of line?