|
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Hi. I love my new 09 Vision. Went for an inaugural ride yesterday and as the bike warmed up I noticed downshifting problems. A few times it would stay in N going from 2 to 1. Stomp stomp stomp... nothing... no up, no down..... uh-oh...
Shut off, restart... panic... whatever... it seemed to return to normal.... But would come back..
I am certain I saw a post on this, but I cannot find it!
Any help? Obviously going to dealer..... damn! ... now I will have to buy something while I'm there....hehe
Edited by Mfoster 2009-07-13 10:37 AM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Check the oil level in the motor/transmission. The motorcycle has to be level, not on the kickstand. Overfilled with oil may give you a with clutch disengagement. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Ok, will do. Thanks. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Did you have a heal shifter installed? Have the linkage adjustment checked. The shop I bought from did not adjust it properly but Jay at Higgins got it just right and I haven't had a problem since.
Let us know how you make out. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Hello. Well, the dealer was able to reproduce it and says the problem is ME. I guess if I do not downshift thru the gears as I slow/stop (which I normally most certainly do) the bike can hang up a bit.... You can put it in 4th and try to stomp stomp stomp to 1st and replicate it. If it gets stuck, rocking the bike engages it and everything is fine.
Kind of weird, but I will watch how I ride and see if it is an issue. Nice that he could replicate it. As far as the "too much oil" they say that is not my prob. I do not have a heal shifter......
But I do have $1500 more in chrome, blacked out rear tips, grab bars, and chrome rear tip-overs now !!!!! HAHHAHAA, I knew it was going to be an expensive trip....
hehe.
Thanks for the help. New stuff should all be installed with in a few days.. I'll post my first pics ever.... only got 170 miles on it! I love it!!!!!!
I am a harley convert and very very happy.
Edited by Mfoster 2009-07-14 8:00 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| The gear cut coupled with your habit of running the gears is the culprit. I had a Suzuki that was the same way so here is a tip if you find it hard to break the multi-gear down shifting habit. If when it sticks you let the clutch out ever so slightly to the engagement point and then back in, the gears will shift. |
|
| |
|
New user
Posts: 2
| Mine does it too, it's a bad feeling when theres no gear there on the downshift, it feels like somethings not latching up, no solid engagement of gears, like the shift lever does not go up enough to catch the next gear or something. I have 1800mi and noticed it since I changed the oil. I'll check the level and make sure it's correct.
Greg Mullins
Ness Vision #159 |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Well.. I am the original poster on this.... I still have the issue. It is basically from 2nd to 1st that I have it the most. You can feel it click/engage but it does not shift. It is very frustrating. It is impossible that I am toatlly to blame.. I NEVER had this on my yelraH and I ride the same way now... Is the Vision clutch different than an 07 Road King? I am really trying to figure out if it is me or the bike...
Just had the oil changed at the dealer too. Same prob. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 177
Fredonia, WI United States | I had a similar problem on my Suzuki M109r. If I let the clutch out just a hair (not quite enough to engage it, but not pulled in all the way) and then pull it back in, it would then let it fall into gear.
I have not seen this issue on my Vision, but maybe the technique will work for you. Good luck! |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| mfoster, nope you wouldn't have had this problem with your HD, different setup completely. It is you but thats not to be taken as an insult. YOU have a very bad habit that LOTS of riders get into and the vision compounds. You tend to get up to speed and cruise along and then you pull in the clutch and try to shift from 4th or 5th all the way down to first. The Vision is deceptive with its speed so you tend to arrive at the stop point before you have a chance to properly downshift. So here is what you do:
Choice 1.... learn to be in the right gear and use the clutch when approaching a stop. This will prevent the rowing through all the gears from a stop.
Choice 2.... learn to let the clutch out ever so slightly to allow the gears to slide into 1st once it freezes due to your habit of rowing
Choice 3.... keep taking your bike to the dealer, get pissed off and/or bitch about it here where we will confirm what the dealer told you.
Now before you get all mad, I get lazy and find myself picking up this bad habit every now and again, so it is an easy habit to acquire. However do us all a favor and next time the gear box hangs and doesn't want to go down into first..... try what I suggested and let the clutch out just enough to slightly engage and then press down on the lever again, it will drop right in. As the bike piles up more miles the gears will wear ever so slightly and it will happen less frequent. You'll also learn both yours and the bikes particulars.
I truly hope this helps you and I HONESTLY am NOT trying to be insulting. "I" have prior experience from which to speak is all.... Ride safe....T
Edited by Teach 2009-08-17 10:52 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | warranty! I'm the world worse in anything and if was to do something goofy like that and be normal I can do it. However, you are not getting a positive engagement on the shift which tells me something is amiss. I get fed up sometimes when techs will say it is not a mechanical problem and then you find out later it is. I'm just glad a lot of these guys are not airplane mechanics.
I will keep complaining to them or take it to another dealer or a real motorcycle mechanic and have them take a look see. you don't want to be somewhere like coming off the mountain and it locks up and sends you to the bottom. that would really, really suck.
postscript: after rereading the other post, if this is just a oops i can't get it in gear moment, then disregard. if it is difficult as i read you to say and the dealer was able to replicate it, it puts a level of concern something is not right inside beyond waiting for normal breakin. just my opinion...
Edited by varyder 2009-08-18 5:51 AM
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| I had a similar problem early on, I finally figured out that it was ME, more correctly my left foot as the side part of my boot was up against the shift lever causing it to bind, now I make a conscious effort to keep my foot away from the lever and only have the toe of my boot either above or below the shift lever. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Mfoster - 2009-08-17 8:25 PM
Well.. I am the original poster on this.... I still have the issue. It is basically from 2nd to 1st that I have it the most. You can feel it click/engage but it does not shift. It is very frustrating. It is impossible that I am toatlly to blame.. I NEVER had this on my yelraH and I ride the same way now... Is the Vision clutch different than an 07 Road King? I am really trying to figure out if it is me or the bike...
Just had the oil changed at the dealer too. Same prob.
I really wish I could agree with the ME folks on this, but this sounds like a shaft issue, bearing, whatever. double check your linkage though, and maybe move the shifter to a different reach position, I think there is a total of three.
I'm thinking in this type of set-up there would be binding on the shifter shaft at the motor causing the bind and partial movement making it seem as though it has engaged.
of course, unless any of us are right there at the bike it could be any number of things. war you at Mfoster?
Edited by varyder 2009-08-18 7:19 AM
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 367
Cottage Grove, Mn | Mine also did it and I discovered the heim joints were binding because of improper alignment. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois | Travelin' Man - 2009-08-18 5:07 AM I had a similar problem early on, I finally figured out that it was ME, more correctly my left foot as the side part of my boot was up against the shift lever causing it to bind, now I make a conscious effort to keep my foot away from the lever and only have the toe of my boot either above or below the shift lever. I had the same experience so I R&R'ed the shift lever and smeared some MoS2 on the sides of the shift lever and also inside the shift lever support while it was apart. I also smeared some on the on the outside of the internal hex bushings and inside the bore of the shifter support. Since then I've been able to side load the shifter with my big ass foot and still shift slick. It made quite a difference. I'm sure it will be a periodic application; for me it is worth it. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Mfoster - 2009-08-17 8:25 PM
Well.. I am the original poster on this.... I still have the issue. It is basically from 2nd to 1st that I have it the most. You can feel it click/engage but it does not shift. It is very frustrating. It is impossible that I am toatlly to blame.. I NEVER had this on my yelraH and I ride the same way now... Is the Vision clutch different than an 07 Road King? I am really trying to figure out if it is me or the bike...
Just had the oil changed at the dealer too. Same prob.
update? |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | I have not kept up to speed on this post so i have not read everything posted. I hope i am not covering anything that was already covered. I had a problem with downshifting now and then when i started riding my vision as wel. What i finally found was that my heel was ever so slightly against the back edge of the shifting arm. This very minor drag would not allow the shift arm to return ever so slightly to its at rest position and allow the ratchet inside to firmly grab the start gear and prepare for the next downshift. Once i started paying attention to my heel position and kept my heel in the middle of the floor board, i never had another downshifting issue. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Well, It is still not right. I am not good at diagnosing it. Basically, when I downshift--it should downshift All the rest is commentary.
I find it hard to believe it is my style, as this does not happen on other bikes I ride. The dealer says the bike is fine.. what am I supposed to do? I am going to try and really document it better. All I know as of now is that it still happens. Letting out the clutch a little seemed to help, but then it would happen again... Is there a vacuum issue that could be at issue? If I am lightly pulling the hand brake as I am coasting and coming into and out of each gear using the motor to slow me (that is when it happens) could it be a vacuum issue?
I will be at the dealer Fri/Sat... I will see what happens..
edit: I will check my heel position, thanks for that advice too... it is possible!
Edited by Mfoster 2009-08-27 12:58 AM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | mike, where are you? i agree, it may not be you, despite some anomolies in the way some people might shift. you need to take a look at the shifting link between the shifter and the shaft, and maybe remove it and see how much play you have in the actual shaft. you've got a binding issue that is not allowing the shift to take place. it could even be a problem inside the housing. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | The heel position thing really surprised me. When you look at how the shift arm/peg is designed, it is a little different than other bikes. The spring is strong enough to pull the lever itself back into position but if there is the slightest bit of drag, i.e.(my heel) it wont come back into place completly. In fact the movement was so slight i almost couldnt see it. I was sure myself there was an issue with my tranny or shiftting ratchet. I do hope this is the problem and nothing internal. I know it could be many things. As for a Vacuum issue, there are no vacuum lines associated with the tranny/clutch. It is purely mechanical.
Good luck. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Well MFoster this is my take on your situation. I live in south central PA and we have these 'little mountains" here that are maybe 2,000 feet but many of them are pretty steep. When I first got the bike I noticed the gear noise that everyone seems to have new on these bikes. One day riding with the 'Mrs.' I decided to do a ride that included a number of these mountains. This involved shifting down and using different gears to apply engine braking. What I realized later that at the same time I was actually wearing in the drive gears from a different direction, opposite from the 'drive' side of the gear surface. From that one day on my gearbox was quieter. So in effect by trying to bypass the gears totally you are avoiding the wear in process that would allow you to downshift. You can can help the wear in process without the hills but it is no fun. Just keep it in a gear and accelerate and back off and let the engine brake keeping it in 1'st, 2'nd and 3'rd and so on. Of course you need to find a place to do this away from traffic like a empy parking lot. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Varyder: I am in Long Beach, CA.
As far as my riding style and shifting... I am not cruising in 4th or 5th, then coasting to a red light with the clutch in and at a stop trying to ratchet all the way down to 1st..THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE...
That was the default position of the dealer, which was replicated in house and shown to be a challenge for the bike (would need to rock it if it could not engage in a stand-still)... however, that is not what is happening....
It is absolutely under rolling and slowing conditions, as I routinely downshift to use the motor to slow me as I approach a stop. It generally happens between 3-2-N-1. Sporadically and consistently....ha.
I feel the shifter awkwardly engage in a soft click, full press, but nothing happens... and when it happens between 2-N-1 it will stay in N not go to 1. Between 3 and 2 it will stay in 3.
I now find my self routinely pumping to downshift.
I am going to test it more, but really there is not much more I can say. I assure you the dealer will tell me they test road it and it never happened....
HOWEVER: my good friend rode it for a while (30 min) and it did not happen to him! HA! So I am thinking it is me.... But it never happened on my harley....( not that I would prefer to go back... no way.)
It is possible that I am not stomping it hard enough... do you guys stomp? This is ridiculous, but it is coming down to technique I guess.
I am going to get my friend to ride it again and really test the shifting. If he has absolutely no mis-hap, then it IS me. That would probably be the best test.
Any veteran riders out there in the So. CAl area want to test my bike?
THanks |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | i still hold the position that there is something not right in the mechanism. maybe greasing it will fix or something is loose, or maybe move your shift position and see what happens. i can go with the idea that you are being too gentle in your shifting but actually that is ridiculus. the shifting is much like pulling the trigger, no matter how soft or how hard you pull the hammer falls the same. your friend riding not able to replicate only indicate he shifts in such a way not to aggrevate the situation. you need to fix whatever it is that is causing the problem, as shifting should not be an issue unless you are trying to shift with your right foot. 
i won't be coming to socal anytime soon so I can ride, that i would be glad too. i'm on the RIGHT coast.
Edited by varyder 2009-08-27 10:13 AM
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Thanks. I will continue to monitor. Once I get on and go for a ride I deal with it, but I am having so much fun I forget to focus on it. I am going to try to take it out strictly to diagnose it..... I will leave the ipod in the house... Must focus....
Is it a stomp and not a feather? Is it my heel hitting the linkage? Is it really that I am in too high of a gear at a slowed speed and am ratcheting thru? <----that one I seriously doubt.
I zip up to a light, as I see it coming I will pull clutch, downshift, let out clutch ...waaaaaaaaa... bike will slow, as it calms down... I do it again in the next lowest gear.....waaaaaaaaa bike will slow... and so forth... till I get to 2nd and then to 1st at the stop. I may be stopping in second as I clutch it and am cruising to a final stop. Then click it to 1st. Usually NOT the time it hangs.... it is WHILE rolling..and using the motor to slow.
I believe it is either a stomp/feather issue... OR... a mechanical issue.
Stomping to commence soon. The truth is coming. The saga continues.
Que the music. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 205
| Well, I may be at fault here. Tonight I consciously stomped it and had no problems. I may be so relaxed and cruisin that I am not fully engaging the shifter... I will keep monitoring. Thanks for the help and advice.
I will consciously feather it next time and see if I can replicate it. Todays ride was not long enough to get enough R &D. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I read a lot of the posts, but frankly not all.. so if this was already stated.. please forgive me. But the Vic's seem to have a bit more travel in the ratchet than most. I find sometimes I get lazy and don't lift my foot completely up after I downshift a gear, the mechanism doesn't ratchet, and when I press down... nothing...
Also keep in mind... these are NOT low rpm shifting bikes like that "other" brand.. Except for getting it into gear, I don't shift less than 2000 rpm. If you are shifting while rolling up to a stop (clutch in... basically engine at an idle)... it will not shift as smoothly as if there is a load on... like if the clutch is feathered. |
|
| |
New Vision, not downshifting correctly..