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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| Just wondering if an oil filter that is longer in length than the stock oil filter's length could cause any problems? Some of the oil filter alternatives listed on the site are longer than the stock filter that came with the bike. Thanks! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 297
VA | I doubt that just by being a longer filter, that this charecteristic alone would make it wrong to use on a bike. However, when I was looking for filters other than factory since I am quite a distance away from my dealer, I found that when I looked on those individual websites that they often told you to not use that filter for a motorcycle. It has to do with the amount of pressure required to pass oil through the filter element. Some of the filters, such as PureOne, stated that bikes did not have enough pressure to circulate the oil through the filter. The one that I found available was made by Wix. If you go to their website they actually list the filter as being compatable for the Vision. More info than you needed, but I hope it helps. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | The Wix P/N's are listed in the forum. Longer filters can cause problems. I got screwed (rather unscrewed) last week because I couldnt get the filter to thread because it was too long and the swing arm was getting in the way of a Nissan Frontier's swingarm (Yeah I charged for my time). Fram had a longer than OEM design that got in the way of the suspension. Sent her back to the LAPS for a filter that fit. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 228
| I use the Wix filter on my Vision.......$7.62 tax included vs. $14.99 plus tax for a Victory filter. I have used Wix filters on all my bikes and currently use them on everything I own including my lawn mower. Never had a problem. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | K&Ns are great filters and a breeze to take on and off. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | I have used Victory Purolator Wix and K&N. I have cut each one open to inspect and review their construction.
The Purolator and the K&N seem to have more filter media area and are longer than the Vic. ( Non issue on a Vision)
Purolator and Wix are both available at local auto parts stores.
K&N is not as easy to find but I think its the best of all.
Vic is dealer only.
Based on availabilty construction and price I think the Purolator is a good choice. 1 year ago they were a marine blue now they are painted yellow ( kinda sucks ) so next time I get a purolator I may need to attack it with a rattle can. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| Would'nt a longer filter be able to trap more particles because of the larger filter material area? Longer is better right? (Thats what she said!) |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I went to wally-world and got the ST7317 that some have said they used. Now I'm debating whether to put a $2.97 filter on my Vision, but what the hey, I'll be changing it again in less than a month. I'm right at 2,500 from my 44,500 mile service with 47,000 going to be on the clock tomorrow at 21 days. Got enough Vic Oil from the Oil change kits where they give you 6 quarts each time and it only takes 4.5. Sounds more appropriate for a Harley oil change kit because they use oil between changes, right?
 
Edited by varyder 2009-07-10 8:58 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | I think one of the most important things about these aftermarket filter are, like someone else already mentioned the PSI matching oem. If not you would have some long Dry starts.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I use WIX filters on everything. The motorcycle specific filter for our bikes is a WIX 51358 (NAPA Gold 1358). It is 2.757 inches long, has a bypass valve opening pressure rating of 8 PSI, and a flow rating of 8 to 10 GPM, and a 21 micron rating. The automotive filter is a WIX 51356 (NAPA Gold 1356) and is 3.402 inches long, has a bypass valve opening pressure rating of 8 to 11 PSI, and a flow rating of 9 to 11 GPM, and a 21 micron rating. It is also about half the cost of the motorcycle specific filter, probably due to the economy of scale (they sell a lot more of them). I have been using the 51356 on my Victory since the year 2000, and am now using it on my Vision as well.
BTW, I pay $4.55 for the NAPA 1356, which is a premium filter for my premium bike. Y'all can put an el-cheapo crapo $2.97 Wally-world filter on your bike if you want to. I'll spend the extra $1.58 for the premium filter.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2009-07-12 12:12 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Does anyone use the Purolator PL14610 filter? I read something a while back from a "Filter Guru" that claimed it was one of the best. He also said the Wal-Mart filter was just about as good and put it in the top 3. If memory serves me correctly he rated WIX filters near the bottom. I will have to do some digging to see if I can find that article again.................. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | From another's sig on another forum:
Oil change materials for your Victory:
Rotella T 15W-40 (non-synthetic, white jug) $2.75/quart at Wal Mart. Or Rotella T 5W-40 (synthetic, blue jug) $4.50/quart at Wal Mart.
Super Tech oil filter ST7317 $2.86 at Wal Mart.
This is all you need for your Victory motorcycle. It is oil, not rocket science people!!!! Seriously!!!!
Edited by varyder 2009-07-12 5:35 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Forget the Dino vs. Full synthetic debate.....try organic.
Olive Oil for your Engine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fak_RmAp5M |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | varyder - 2009-07-12 5:33 PM
From another's sig on another forum:
Oil change materials for your Victory:
Rotella T 15W-40 (non-synthetic, white jug) $2.75/quart at Wal Mart. Or Rotella T 5W-40 (synthetic, blue jug) $4.50/quart at Wal Mart.
Super Tech oil filter ST7317 $2.86 at Wal Mart.
This is all you need for your Victory motorcycle. It is oil, not rocket science people!!!! Seriously!!!!
You really need to read this guys posts before you start taking his signiture as any type of Gospel. In the many years I have been a professional mechanic I have seen WAY TO MANY problems with the wally world ST filters, and thier el-cheapo brothers. Debris in the new filter, and leaking seams at the filter base are VERY common in these filters. I have prersonally seen an ST that had no threads cut into the base, and another with a partial stamping from a base IN THE ELEMENT. Use what you want, but don't cheap yourself into a blown motor.
BTW these motors run a pretty constant 80psi on the lube side of the pump, and that is plenty of pressure for any check valve filter |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I had a brand new FRAM filter on my old Jeep Cherokee that had a hole in the curl over at the base. It is the ONLY time I didn't run my motor after an oil change to check for leaks. I drove an average of 100+ EVERYDAY, and would change my oil every 3,000 miles. I got routinual in the task and changed my oil in the evening, shut the hood and went to bed. I was on my way to work and in about 30 miles of my 50 mile trip the oil light came on. I turned down my radio and the engine was just a clacking away. Fortunetly I was right at a store and I checked the problem and saw that it was a stream the size of pencil lead. I threw in a few more quarts from there and headed to a parts store for a filter and changed it out. Fortunetly my motor wasn't ruined and accomplished 290,000 miles before the body gave out.
My point, no product is immune to failure. I still buy FRAM and I now ALWAYS run the motor after an oil change to check for problems or leaks.
Other than life-long entertainment, oil threads serve no purpose but to give people something to debate about.
Anybody try Lucas products????
Edited by varyder 2009-07-13 7:49 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Maybe that guy just owns Walmart stock?
If you want to run a longer filter just make sure you have full clearance for it. Now anyone that has opened up used filters can say if the filter is dirty enough to make a difference if you buy a long or short one? Ever notice everytime you change oil it's dirty? It it because the oil breaks down over wear and tear or is because the the filter is clogged and no longer filtering? Or is it the particles in the oil are too small for the oil filter to catch?
Just change with quality oil and filter when she needs it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | kevinx - 2009-07-13 6:54 AM
varyder - 2009-07-12 5:33 PM
From another's sig on another forum:
Oil change materials for your Victory:
Rotella T 15W-40 (non-synthetic, white jug) $2.75/quart at Wal Mart. Or Rotella T 5W-40 (synthetic, blue jug) $4.50/quart at Wal Mart.
Super Tech oil filter ST7317 $2.86 at Wal Mart.
This is all you need for your Victory motorcycle. It is oil, not rocket science people!!!! Seriously!!!!
Hey kevin i remember reading about walmart having to recall oil filters from SuperTech. also i personally know that ive seen shavings inside of the filter(where the threads are) . Now i know this isnt going to be with all of their filters but still either way. the Q.C. on them arent the best. now i know this is NOT about the oil filters. but i will NEVER purchase the supertech oil.. there is a few lawsuits pending on that as well!! they said a certain weight of oil, only to findout it was a lesser weight! once again a lack of Q.C.
You really need to read this guys posts before you start taking his signiture as any type of Gospel. In the many years I have been a professional mechanic I have seen WAY TO MANY problems with the wally world ST filters, and thier el-cheapo brothers. Debris in the new filter, and leaking seams at the filter base are VERY common in these filters. I have prersonally seen an ST that had no threads cut into the base, and another with a partial stamping from a base IN THE ELEMENT. Use what you want, but don't cheap yourself into a blown motor.
BTW these motors run a pretty constant 80psi on the lube side of the pump, and that is plenty of pressure for any check valve filter |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | we can danter all day long, because we do, and this is not unlike any and all other oil threads. Experience is, what it is. I had a bad with Fram one day and it has taught one more time to be on my toes. I now check the seams of every oil filter I buy, because of one incident. Never happened before, never happened again.
I looked at my supertech filter that I have yet to use, and I see it looks like all the other zillion oil filters I have used, most fram, but wix, purolator, etc, etc. Threads are there, no shavings all material present, etc, etc. I could take a slap a different label on it and it would hard to tell the difference from another except K&N.
I pulled out all the crossed references at the autoparts store for the Vic filter and you know what I noticed different about each one? They were all different colors and materials, nothing else was really different. I went to wally-world and checked out the ST and it looked like the Vic inside and out. I'm going to do what this guy did
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20429981-Tech-REVIEW-WalMart-Brand...
when I pull my vic filter and then I'm going to do that 3,000 miles from now with my ST filter and see what the real difference is. That is if I make it that long, as I may blow my motor by then....
Time for all the independant study research stuff to be posted that points to that one thing is superior to another, based off who is telling the story.
Anybody wear levi's??? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 241
Monrovia, Ca | I tried the Wally World filter and got a ticking sound from the motor. Swapped it out with a Bosch and the sound went away. Somebody suggested it was a problem with the by-pass valve in the Walmart filter. Buying the Bosch filters now. $5 at Auto Zone. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too funny!!!!!!
Every brand of filter ever made will have one go bad at some point, and then there will be a story about it....50,000 miles so far with super tech filters and never one problem, except more cash in my wallet...And Kevin, you suck for that comment!!!!
For those that think the sun rises and sets on one persons opinion about a filter....Go online and type in motorcycle oil filter. There is enough opinions and stories good and bad about every brand, you could never read it all. For every Kevinx telling you not to use a super tech, there is another telling you it is fine...Look at the race teams in nascar....Think they all use the same oil? You think only one of the head mechanics is right and all the other guys run junk oil?
It is oil and a filter, not rocket science....If it works, use it. If you want to spend 3x as much for the same thing with a different name, more power to you....There are hordes of people that have used rotella and super tech for thousands, and thousands, and thousands of miles on several bikes, and never had a problem and LOVE IT!!!!!
This debate will never end. Less than $15.00 including tax, and my oil and filter are changed on my Vision....By the way, I don't even replace the crush washer....I still have the original on my Vision after several changes. I sold my Kingpin with 24,000 miles and at least 10 oil changes. I sold it to my buddy, he has done some oil changes as well....Guess what??? Original crush washer still in place, and not leaking.
This is an oil change, oil, and filter, not rocket science......!!!!!!!!!!
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I've got about 10 crush washers....anybody need one? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 154
Cabot Arkansas | 15 years later and and the great oil debate still goes on From another oil debate:
MCN is ready to print any research or test results provided by the oil companies to support their claims of superior viscosity retention, with this one proviso: The comparisons must be against actual, SG-rated oil products that can be purchased off the shelf at the average auto parts store. Tests against generic, basic-stock mineral oil or against the lower-rated SE and SF oils would lack any credibility in a real-world context.
Despite more than six months of research, reading all the claims and counter-claims printed by dozens of industry experts and lubrication experts, MCN cannot and does not purport to know all there is to know about the differences between automotive and motorcycle oils. However, what we do know is that we can find no substantive evidence that using a high-quality, name-brand automotive oil in an average street motorcycle is in any way harmful or less effective in providing proper lubrication and protection than using the more expensive, motorcycle-specific oils.
Rotella rocks |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | just for the hell of it i went to mobil1s website..
So how is Mobil 1 for passenger cars different from Mobil 1 for motorcycles?
First, let's be clear about Mobil 1's overall benefits compared to those of conventional motor oils, whether for passenger cars or motorcycles:
Superior long-term engine protection.
Superior high-temperature stability.
Excellent low-temperature starting.
Outstanding engine performance.
Low volatility/low oil consumption
It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the three Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:
Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).
SUPERTECH http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/california_da_settles_wal_mar...
Edited by Arkainzeye 2009-07-14 4:13 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | ahhh, it was just a question of which filter is better, the long one or short one?  Kevin your comments and everyone's comments don't suck.  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Arkainzeye - 2009-07-14 2:09 PM
just for the hell of it i went to mobil1s website..
So how is Mobil 1 for passenger cars different from Mobil 1 for motorcycles?
First, let's be clear about Mobil 1's overall benefits compared to those of conventional motor oils, whether for passenger cars or motorcycles:
Superior long-term engine protection.
Superior high-temperature stability.
Excellent low-temperature starting.
Outstanding engine performance.
Low volatility/low oil consumption
SUPERTECH http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/california_da_settles_wal_mar...
In March, Bud Light bottles, cans, secondary packaging and point-of-sale materials will include the words "superior drinkability" along with new coloring and design elements that work in concert to communicate Bud Light's distinct difference from the other light beers at retail, in advertising and other consumer marketing initiatives.
While its packaging changes, Bud Light will remain the same beer – great tasting and brewed with the same high-quality ingredients and brewing process.
Superior Drinkability? What the hell does that mean?
Edited by Tarpits99 2009-07-14 5:35 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i was always very anti-Oem with oils and filters.. Im still kinda anti the victory oil ONLY because of how it makes my engine sound on a cold dry start and how my shifting gets after about 1000 miles. I do like the idea of the oil change kit with the filter and gasket(s). I have been using the Oem victory oil filter. My dealer always has them in stock and at least this way (after reading the warranty details) if something failed on my bike (extremely doubtful, But murphys law) i cant get a denial NOT because i didnt use a victory oil filter as thats against the law, but because i used a oil filter Not designed for the application.. Thats all.. for me in my humble opinion it feels silly to purchase a motorcycle for $23,000.00 and then nickle and dime over how to maintain it.? Im not saying you cant find a oil filter that is designed for this app, K&N makes a nice filter! its just i cant walk into a shop and just buy one without having to order it and wait.. If i didnt have this extended warranty and if i didnt actually READ it i would probably be using anything i could get my hands on. but after reading that warranty in detail and seeing how they want receipts for All oil changes etc thats all i need is that kinda trouble to save a $1 every 500 miles with a cheaper filter |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | K&P conquest customs |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | golfer - 2009-07-14 2:38 PM
By the way, I don't even replace the crush washer....I still have the original on my Vision after several changes. I sold my Kingpin with 24,000 miles and at least 10 oil changes. I sold it to my buddy, he has done some oil changes as well....Guess what??? Original crush washer still in place, and not leaking.
This is an oil change, oil, and filter, not rocket science......!!!!!!!!!!
I was wondering when you would pop in, but I stand by my comment. I also look forward to your
"I snapped the head off my cheap shit oil drain plug" Thread. When I see it I will take a moment to explain that part of the reason for the washer is to compress when you tighten the plug. This compression takes strain off the thin cap on the plug, and failure to replace it eventually results in the plug head snapping off.
BTW the quoted post is what I was talking about in the first place. You have a nasty habit of taking generalities, and painting them as absolutes |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | And in this corner weighing at 10w40, the heavy weight champion, vvvVVVic blend.
And in this corner weighing at 15w40, our challenger.....ssssSSSSSSuperTTec.
lllllllLLLLLLLLeeeetttt's ggett reaaaadddddy to RummmmmmBLE!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
who's volley is it???
Edited by varyder 2009-07-14 8:41 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| kevinx - 2009-07-14 6:48 PM
golfer - 2009-07-14 2:38 PM
By the way, I don't even replace the crush washer....I still have the original on my Vision after several changes. I sold my Kingpin with 24,000 miles and at least 10 oil changes. I sold it to my buddy, he has done some oil changes as well....Guess what??? Original crush washer still in place, and not leaking.
This is an oil change, oil, and filter, not rocket science......!!!!!!!!!!
I was wondering when you would pop in, but I stand by my comment. I also look forward to your
"I snapped the head off my cheap shit oil drain plug" Thread. When I see it I will take a moment to explain that part of the reason for the washer is to compress when you tighten the plug. This compression takes strain off the thin cap on the plug, and failure to replace it eventually results in the plug head snapping off.
BTW the quoted post is what I was talking about in the first place. You have a nasty habit of taking generalities, and painting them as absolutes
You should attack the message, not the messenger Kevin....Instead of saying people should check out my posts before taking my advice is just an attack on me. Next time, maybe try telling people you simply don't like Rotella or Super Tech filters...I don't know why you feel the need to have the personal insult added to your opinion...Just sayin'....
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | golfer - 2009-07-15 9:22 AM
You should attack the message, not the messenger Kevin....Instead of saying people should check out my posts before taking my advice is just an attack on me. Next time, maybe try telling people you simply don't like Rotella or Super Tech filters...I don't know why you feel the need to have the personal insult added to your opinion...Just sayin'....
I did just that. I said they should check the source. Had they done so they would find that while some of what you say is very insightfull. You have a habit of interjecting opinion as fact. Nothing more or less.. Not that I have not been guilty of it myself |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | +1 |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | +2 and +3 and +4, etc. continue until satisfied. I got money on the guy in the corner with an "X" in his name. He's got to be badder than the guy with a golf club.
I thought I would try the Mobil 1 Vtwin oil and a Napa Wix filter. Been pretty happy. I like seeing where some dude off a site. Takes a bunch of filters and puts them in a controlled environment to test them. How much filtering, how long before the bypass goes, etc.
Like Varyder, if I go buy a 100 fram filters and then sell them for 50 bucks is the K&N filter and wix filter, junk because they cost less. I try to hit in the middle of the road, unless I have explicit proof otherwise. Seems to work well, for me. I have a big 5 gallon jug of Rotella for my truck and tractor. I haven't been able to figure out if I can use it in my Vic. You know, I think Victory should change its Name to "VIC", 1) it sounds cooler, 2) when you think of a guy named VicK, what's the first thing you think of, Mafia, Italian or Russian, maybe even Chicagoan.
Thank you, and no legal disclaimer, Maybe i should LLC "VIC". |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | That's like the guy who was taking his prize horse to a show and passed through a small town.
Realizing he forgot his blanket he stopped at a local general store and told the man he needed a horse blanket for a prize show horse.
Going to the back he brings one out and lays on the counter and says "that'll be $25.00" The man gasps and says that he doesn't understand, this is a prize horse and needs a better blanket than what $25.00 will buy.
So the man goes back and grabs another blanket from the same pile but a different color, plops it on the counter and says "$50.00". Now this has the man upset because the clerk is not understanding his dilemma and reminds him that this is "prize winning horse" the blanket is going on.
So the clerks knods his head in understanding goes back and from the same pile, grabs a different color blanket, returns to the counter and places it nicely and says, "This one is a $100.00" The man grins real big finally getting what he wanted, pays the clerk and leaves. |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | Vary - How can I keep track of your posts when you have them hidden? |
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Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | VisionTex - 2009-07-14 5:23 PM
ahhh, it was just a question of which filter is better, the long one or short one? Kevin your comments and everyone's comments don't suck.
+1
As I tried to point out before, most motorcycle specific oil filters have a physically longer automotive cousin that is usually lower cost. Same filter, except for the physical length. All filters have a long list of applications, and the MC specific filters have to fit in the shortest space that it is listed for, such as bikes with inline fours with the filter mounted on the front of the case right behind the exhaust headers. Tight fit. In the case of Victory motorcycles, there is plenty of room around the filter, so the longer automotive version fits just fine and you get a filter with a little more filtering media for a lower cost. Thus, I use the Wix/NAPA Gold 1356 instead of the 1358, and pay $4.55 instead of $6.64. The filters are the same specs other than length.
So to answer the gent's question, using a longer filter, regardless of brand, is just fine as long as the operating specs are compatible with what Victory specs their filters at.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2009-07-15 5:02 PM
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Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | DesertJim - 2009-07-15 3:38 PM
Vary - How can I keep track of your posts when you have them hidden?
DJ, I'm almost embarassed to think I have as many posts that I do and still have as many (s)miles that I do.
Honestly, I have a life outside of riding and posting on the forum, but for some reason when I do either, it is all or none. I no longer shock people at work when I come in riding in the pouring rain. And in the rare event that I do drive they are wondering what is wrong with the bike or me.
But the forum is my vent to instigate stuff and since most live to far away can't run here and beat me up too easily. That is why I tread softly around VaParadox because he knows where I work which is a mile or three down the road. But I taunt him by riding around his Lexus at one of his places of employment.
but to answer your question, I don't want you to know.... 
Edited by varyder 2009-07-15 5:01 PM
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Oil Filter