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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Today, for some reason, I've not had a single pop, decel or other wise on my 31 mile trek to work. I'm wondering why I've not seen the IAC fix on theVMC before and we've brought it up many times here on this forum, but oh well. Based off the facts of the "fix" of the IAC it confirms my thoughts of having a vacuum leak.
But I would also venture to say that if my pipes had imperfections at the mating surface that cause exhausts leaks that gave me an undo amount of pop, I wonder how many others of you have the same problem?
For the past four days the bike has been the quiet it has ever been and it has had only a few pops, and that was on the decel. I poked my finger around the IAC but did nothing to it other wise and since then it has been pop free except one sneeze yesterday. Another thing it did yesterday is actually pop out the exhuast and not in the intake. It only did that on a roll on hard on the throttle and then backed off.
Also, another thing that I'm noticeing is that the bike is runing hotter but at least 10-20 degrees above what it used to run. I think the leaks were allowing the bike to run richer and now that it is running close to normal, lean, then it is running hotter. But I do not want to trade off for a cooler engine for all that popping.
I'm going really write a letter to Polaris and explain my findings with pictures in hopes others may benefit from this and get those pipes fixed first and hopefully under recall. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| varyder, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Did you find the cure for your popping, or is it still popping and you suspect a vacuum leak? WD40! If you suspect a vacuum leak you can spray the entire motor with WD with no ill affects. You'll hear the engine change pitch if you hit a leak. You can do the same with water but WD has always worked better for me.
I sure hope you get this pop sorted out. I've been fortunate in that I have never had it, good luck. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | To clarify, I've had the pop since the beginning (nov 07) with no absolute resolution.
I began to suspect a months ago that leaks to be the culprit despite the insistance of those who said it was the electronic gizmo settings forced upon the '08's to meet EPA.
I started with the exhaust first this past week and found that the mating surfaces had slag on them, not much but enough to form an imperfect seal against the exhaust gasket. I also had a bent flange at the left cross-over union caused by the clamp digging in and disfiguring it. I fixed those exhaust leaks and the bike finally runs near perfect and all I am now experiencing is the decel pop.
Are you with me so far?
Now, with all that fix, I recently find a post here that reference a fix over a year ago concerning the Decel Pop on theVMC forum. So I go over there and look it up and find that the IAC creates, in essense, a vacuum leak that will cause the pop on decel. The fix is explained in theVMC forum, but it is not a perfect fix overall.
I "poked" on my IAC yesterday and since that time I've only had one pop as described above and today, ZERO pops or problems. I'm not the saltest cracker in the pack but I keep plugging away until I'm satisfied and at the moment I'm very satisfied. I also on find the decel pop to occur when I crack the throttle on downshift and that is totally unnecessary. I do agree I should be able to do anything at anytime without the pop, but if I can control it that way, then that is what'll do. I doubt if I'll go beyond the poking fix, but may mess with it out of curiosity.
I do want to do a general sweep of the intake and air box to confirm or deny if there is another leak other than the one created by the IAC. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| I also find if i do not blurp or twist the throttle before downshifting i do not get a pop or the all dreaded stall(motor completely dies). I've been riding this way for at least 2 weeks and no stalling issues. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | It really demands the modern biker to ride his/her bike like you would an automobile. For the most part we don't throw in the clutch and rev our engines in our cars. Yet, with a bike we constantly rev, sitting at a light and down shifting. But I do agree that we should have to be ride our bikes in such a manner and it should respond to our input correctly
But I believe also, even if the IAC is at fault there is a fix to that as well. So my burning question is why doesn't Victory engineer this bugger correctly and do a recall? In our high-tech society this is really a poor way to do business if they are aware of it and don't do something about. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | update: I started to ride like I did before and could not get it to pop. I told my dealer and they told me they've never pulled the pipes to check the surface where it mates to the engine and gasket.
before you go screwing with your gizmo's IAC, EFI, commander's because you have the pop, pull your head pipes to inspect and make sure you got a good seal. Of course, replace the gasket.
I'm done! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | pics
(S4021793 - Copy.JPG)
(S4021806sm.JPG)
(S4021807sm.JPG)
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 S4021793 - Copy.JPG (30KB - 2 downloads)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | Chris, what the f&ck is an IAC? and what do you think it has to do with the popping? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | CoolHandLuke - 2009-06-25 7:52 AM
Chris, what the f&ck is an IAC? and what do you think it has to do with the popping?
I don't know, check out this post here:
http://forums.thevmc.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=59193&posts=...
I read there after it was mentioned here on another post as to be the "fix" for our popping issue.
However, I'm two days with no popping even when I do all the "bad" things like cracking the throttle. I would say the proper cure to the popping is fix the header pipe mating surface by making it smooth and replacing the wasted gaskets from all the blow-by.
I never like the idea of jimmying up a brand new bike to make it run right. My dealer says they've not pulled one header pipe, but now they will to see if that could be the cause of the dozens of other popping issues that cannot be fixed. So simple, yet overlooked.
How's things in Florida? I still want to meet and have lunch if I can get my misses to ride that far. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Did you use the OEM crush washers or get ones from another source? No doubt the head pipe did show signs of a imperfect seal. What up with the image of the split tube? Seems as though a complete removal and reinstallation of the entire system and cleaning / flattening of the mating surfaces is a reasonable way to try and eleiminate popping / drivability issues. $0.02 thought, In the past I have used High temp ( Red) silicone instead of gaskets at the matting point of exhaust systems with positive results. If you have a large gap or imperfection at a matting surface one might be able to apply some to help in making a positive seal. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I used OEM, but if it gives me problems again, I 'll go with another or do as you suggested.
The pipe is the forward end of the elbow for the left side where it connects to the crossover. That was what was giving me an additional rumble, but I found that problem where there was a spray of soot coming from the joint. The clamp had dug into the slide slit that caused it to bunch up, only to make it worse by tightening. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Chris-
Clear up my small confusion here. Did you do the whole exhaust route and the IAC fix at the same time? Or did you do the exhaust and then a few days later mess with the IAC? Sounds like a few days seperated the two, I just wanted to confirm.
Since the ECM uses adaptive logic I'm kinda wondering something. If you do one "fix" like perhaps just the exhaust I'm wondering how many miles it takes for the ECM to "catch up" with the fix. If a few days seperated your fixes do you have any idea how many miles you put on in these few days?
Or in other words....think maybe just the IAC fix could solve the popping issues? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
| I am a newbie to the Vision and have been riding Harleys for some time. I went and took a test ride on a 09 Vision and it was hard to give it back to the dealer. I am waiting to see what the 2010 is like before I get a Vision. But enough of that, If this is such a big problem why dosen't Victory fix this at the factory when they test the bike there at the end of the production line? There advertisement that I received from the dealer stated that each bike is tested. It would seem that they would have the same issues. I can not beleve that they let this go on the 10th Anniversary models! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Lotzafun - 2009-06-25 11:13 AM
Chris-
Clear up my small confusion here. Did you do the whole exhaust route and the IAC fix at the same time? Or did you do the exhaust and then a few days later mess with the IAC? Sounds like a few days seperated the two, I just wanted to confirm.
Since the ECM uses adaptive logic I'm kinda wondering something. If you do one "fix" like perhaps just the exhaust I'm wondering how many miles it takes for the ECM to "catch up" with the fix. If a few days seperated your fixes do you have any idea how many miles you put on in these few days?
Or in other words....think maybe just the IAC fix could solve the popping issues?
In my own defense, (not that I'm defending myself) I did nothing to the IAC except pull the side cover off and poked by finger on it as I was trying to see what I would need to do to apply the fix. However, it has been trouble free since I "poked" on it and nothing more, nada. The only thing that I did do that had meaningful was to rid my bike of exhaust leaks at the header pipes and the cross over. I had a few decel pops on the first few days but since Tuesday evening when I poked the IAC it has not popped.
Now my guess is, and I'm not a coincidental type person, but the computer or whatever has adjusted itself for the new conditions, I don't know, I'm just talking out of my head. What I do know is that I rode to work this morning, doing the blip and all of that stuff since I had a trouble free day yesterday and I wanted to see if it would pop. So far, no pop, and I'll leave it at that until it fools me again. I'm just loving this bike more everyday. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Following this post and others that Varyder had put here I too went ahead and performed a total exhaust R&R. I have the S1 L2 installed and I had been getting more pops and such as the miles were adding up. At times when the bike was cold I would hear an exhaust leak from the front kinda like a pffft' that told me I knew it was not right.
This picture shows both the Front crush washer and the Rear crush washer along with the front header tube. The rear appeard to have a pretty good seal with one area the was a bit weak. The front however was leaking from pretty much the top half.
Using a large flat piece of steel and emery cloth I was able to get a flatt mating surface all the way around each tube.
I reinstalled everything using new crush washers from Victory.
As I post this I am still reassembling the bike.
FYI I don't have all the shortcuts that may be know to Vic Techs but I found that I really had to strip the bike down to get all of this removed and replaced.
Performance/popping issues to be determined...
(Head pipe and Washers.jpg)
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Head pipe and Washers.jpg (57KB - 2 downloads)
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | thanks JSP, I mentioned I think in my 45K review and want to say it again that is critical to clean then engine surface as well. Just be careful because all you want to do is remove crud. with the engine being aluminum you could remove too much material and create other problems. your ends on the pipe look the same as mine. except the front one had rust on the end. here's to hopen you get the same results...
Edited by varyder 2009-08-07 9:45 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | It looks like the trend is the front cylinder. Can anyone confirm? I ordered my exhaust gaskets, touted as "gaskets that actually seal" from Lloydz. Hopefully I will be able to get to this asap after I get back from offshore next week. Thanks for all the great info guys. I'll post my findings on the thread. Maybe we can identify the trend here. As I mentioned in another thread. If this doesn't do the trick, I'm going to start chasing the IAC. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Update:
Well I did the gaskets and re assembled with care. The bike did seem to run a bit better but popping was real evident when cold. So after internally commenting DRATS! I went for the IAC. Well once again many screws and lines and clips and sucjh I got it off the bike. Disassembled and inspected.
The IAC valve Or Intake Air Control as I would call it appeared clean but when hitting with brake cleaner I noticed the faint coloration of the Yellow premium fuels I use. Most important was the actual seat that had some carbon buildup that was removed with a Q-tip and more solvent.
Reassembled and more riding today it seems a bit better but I kinda think the system is re-learning. More testing and riding Oh Well..
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I only have occasional popping on 1-2 shifts, mostly cold, I get an occasional hesitation, again, only on 1-2 shift. My bike is stock. No mods. Im convinced its the EPA's and CARB's fault. Victory can only do so much within regulations. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 55
Las Vegas, NV | bobm127, one thing you need to realize is these bikes put out big power compared to a harley. Some will pop and some won't. My bike is loaded with performance parts. The good news is with the Ness Bigshot, I only get pops when she's cold. Now I let her run a bit before riding. Once warm, she runs like a champ. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | JSP - I wound up removing my IAC and cleaning it, there was light hesitation in its movement and gunk on it. It seemed to cure my hard starting in the cold, but then again it is around 95 today. Seem to move better after flushing with carb cleaner. it wouldn't surprise me at all itf that happen to be part of your problem. Good luck and continue riding until the problem clears itself. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 74
Lehigh Valley, Pa | I replaced my crush washers with ones I purchased from Lloyds. They web page describes them as "Exhaust Gaskets that actually seal".
My popping was increasing over time and got to a point where I could no longer stand it. After the replacement and clean up of the sealing edge of the header pipe my pops have dropped to maybe 2 a day (400 miles) and they are barely audible. More of a puff than a pop.
I am running the S1/L1 with the Lloyds intake plate...
I am very pleased with the results, lets see how long it lasts... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Well my testing over the last weekend proved positive to an extent. I just got a new bike for the wife and was more intune to her riding that than the exhaust pop. It did pop or pfft a couple of times but not bad. I am keeping my finger crossed and if its monitor then I can deal with it. |
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