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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I am curious, is anyone on this forum running a Car Tire out back on their Vision? I have one on my other bike, and am one tire away from putting one on my '08.-----Metalguy  |
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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | Let me know how that goes for ya. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Alright, metalcrafterguy, got a ? Why would you do this, I have read just about all of your posts, seen the infamous "rat", and still wonder?
I have to know the pros and cons to this. The only Pro I can think of is just the mileage aspect of it all. Will the compound be sticky enough when you lean to keep you planted. Seems like the compounds on a car tire would not support a stickier compound on the edges. |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I have done it on the rat, and it does indeed stick better than the M/C tire. Car tires do have softer compounds than M/C tires. Because our bikes don't have the lean angle of a sportbike, the footprint is larger than a M/C, even in corners. OR, maybe I do it because I am crazy, and want to do something, just to see for myself if it is worthwhile. I certainly do not reccomend it if a person is in any way apprehensive about trying something new. ------Metalguy |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
I also ran one on my Kawasaki VN2000. It was a fine choice there and I'm just about ready to order one for my Vision.
Not to worry for the naysayers...as I have uped my life insurance, got good fire insurance on the bike and my will is up to date. I'm ready to go! :-)
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | When I first contemplated it, I asked an MSF instrutor that works in my shop what he thought...boy did I get an earful! That alone was enough for me to look into it more, and I found it is like discussing religeon or politics...LOTS of opinions. Only problem is, the ones that tell me it is dangerous have never even ridden a bike equipped. Those I have talked to that done it have really enjoy it! So really I am on a fact-finding mission.-----Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | metalguy - 2009-05-20 10:52 PMWhen I first contemplated it, I asked an MSF instrutor that works in my shop what he thought...boy did I get an earful! That alone was enough for me to look into it more, and I found it is like discussing religeon or politics...LOTS of opinions. Only problem is, the ones that tell me it is dangerous have never even ridden a bike equipped. Those I have talked to that done it have really enjoy it! So really I am on a fact-finding mission.-----Metalguy OK MG, quit talkin'. get one and get to ridin'. I'm days away from ordering a new set of skins for the bike and if I could get 70K out of the rear tire, I'd be hooked up. This is my 4 tire (3d change) on the bike coming up in a year and a half. Got 42,800 on her now. The front is getting changed out to but it is ready NOW. Well, the cord ain't showin' yet so I'll run it a few more miles as long as it is dry. I'm stuck ridin' the highway as I'm always in a hurry and don't know why. It's either to the folks and to my granders and I want to get their quick and the twisties don't get me there quick. It's 90% on the I-roads here lately and I'd be willing to give it a shot if it don't kill it when I do hit the twisties. I'm sure there is a ton of rebuttals out there but last I checked I was all growed up.
Edited by varyder 2009-05-20 10:21 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I will put one on as soon as my testing on the rat is sufficient for me to still wanna. I just want to test that puppy out more, and in more conditions so I know I can trust it back there. I have only gone about 100 miles on the C/T and want a few thousand to be sure before putting one on my Vision. I am sure you unnerstand.----Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Okay, thanks Metal Guy. I think the arguments are that it is not made for a motorcycle and therefore the sidewalls won't have the support that would give it the handling needed in the corners. There may not be any significant change in the straightways as in interstate driving except for mileage of the tire. It is not a popular choice for obvious reasons and I never see a dual application tire, but the few post I've read folks seem to enjoy them. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 271
Belding Michigan | OK my 2 cents worth is this I have seen car tires used on bikes mostly Gold Wings and they were sidecar rigs. A car will eat a set of wing tires in about 6000 miles so using a car tire made sense.
On a standard bike the lean angle of the bike in corners obivates the tire design as car tires are normally flatter acrossed the tread and have little if any rounding on the edges to provide the contact patch. That said i believe that everyone has the right to choose what they use.
I am anal about tires if I get the inkling that my tire has a problem it is gone. If i can see tread wear it is gone as I value my skin and like it right where it is not on the ground or the tarmac.
If I were sure that the control and the contact patch would remain constant and that I could get 40K out of tire hey buddy I would be all over that. But for me tire design is an art that has taken manufactures years to prefect and I will for now go with the flow and use MC tires on the MC.
Please however keep us posted on how the grand experiment goes I am always eager to learn just not willing to expend my skin in the learning. Archie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | All respect for you comments and hope for hopes sake that there will be someone who has actually riden on the car tire on a m/c chime in with the experience. This topic comes up time and time and time again, not as much as an oil thread or ABS, but it does come up. For the most part it is the friend of a friend of a friend who had some good/bad experience. I think, not that I can speak for him, from Metal Guy's perspective he's going into this with a total open mind of the engineering of a car tire or a motorcycle tire, if he didn't I would question his desire to do so. If he didn't understand the dynamics and was a novice to motorcycles he is indeed flirting with diaster and doesn't know. I respond in regards of my curiousity and would indeed consider all factors before showing up to my motorcycle shop with a car tire and say "mount this please." I think the first thing I would notice is the crappy handling and the fight to lean which is what I recall reading. So then the real trade of is the handling ability. I think I also recall someone posting one time that there was very little difference, but I would beg to differ to the term "very little". Just as you pointed out that there is a reason a m/c tire is made the way it is. I noticed that I ate a lot of tire to and from Texas as I put on 1,600 miles straight up the whole time. The tire was literally flat in the middle, though still round on the edge. I had a lot of meat on the sides and would have opted to ride nothing but twisties for another 5k but it is difficult to do here. so hopefully someone will chime in that has done the experiment or we'll wait for Metal Guy. As for me, I'm cleaning out the "hanger" which is a small long shed, so I can pull the tires and exhaust off of mine to get new motorcyle tires and fix my popping once and for all. |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I ran two car tires on my 2000 Valkyrie and really liked the experience. If you go to the VRCC board there is a lot of information about running them. When I'm ready for one, that's the direction I'm going. My only question is what is the maximum width the "V" will handle? |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I think I need to explain my last post. I meant I ran two rear tires at different times, not a front and a rear.
Sorry about that. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i ran a car tire on my vulcan 2000 for 3 seasons!! and the tire still looked NEW!! i even road with it on deals gap!!! breaking was insanely strong. a few things i didnt like about it was, coming to a stop light while slowing down.. the bike following the dents in the road. rain traction was great! it also requires more effort to lean in turns. not alot more. just more. the MAIN advantage was tire life.. i even got a nail in my car tire and just plugged it and road with that plug for a yr before i traded the bike in.. and it was very nice to NOT remove that rear wheel every year for a New tire.. the savings were great. but it didnt handle as well as a motorcycle tire. but at the sametime it NEVER stopped me from doing anything i could do with a MC tire.. would i do it on my Vision? probably not as the vision SO far as had alot better tire life than my vulcan |
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Cruiser
Posts: 110
| My Question is is the extra effor to get the bike to lean anything like riding a Vic Hammer with a 250 rear tire? This still throws me when I get off the vision and jump on the hammer or vice versa. |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | So far, on the "rat" it has made minimal difference in handling. But there are differences I have noticed. I am only around the 150 mile mark on this tire due to other issues the rat has, but it DOES let you feel all the imperfections in the road, although it is rock steady over them...odd. It still sticks like glue in the corners, sweepers, onramps. Once I get a decent seat on it that is actually attached to the bike by more than gravity, I will do harder testing. One more thing I noticed, is the ride is actually smoother. Why, I dunno. When I used to go over potholes, be it a corner, or straight, I FELT them. Now, not so much. I feel them, but they are "cushioned". The feel of imperfections may just be because of how huge the contact patch is, compared to my M/C that I had.-------Metalguy
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/metalguy/IMG_2164.jpg[/IMG] |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | One answer I rarely see in a car tire thread is the make, model and size of tire So what is the tire you are currently using and do they make one that is sized to the Vision? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | someone asked if the car tire was like a 250. i cant asnwer that for a vision. but my kaw had a 225/55-16 good year triple tread assruance tire.(boy was it great in RAIN!) but then i got ride of the car tire about bought wheels for the bike and went to a 250/40-18. that difference was, the 250 bike tire was easier to lean.. i know this is a apple to oranges as you are NOT getting a 225 car tire on a vision. lol that would look bad ass though.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| MG, I toyed with this when I replaced my first tire but decided against. I had a bad shock bushing that caused some tire issues and the result ended up replacing it early. The important part is the replacement was due to the largely flat center which provided considerable resistance in corners. I figure if the bike tire flat spot resisted this much I didn't want to toy with the car tire. And yes I know the car tire sidewall flexes but I wasn't willing to gamble over a couple thousand miles more. Several friends run darkside tires and average is around 22k miles between replacement (about the same as front tire). |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | Varyrider, the make, size of tire on the rat is a Douglas GT 195/60/R15. Now, this is an extremely wide tire for a Honda VY700. In fact, there is only about 3/32" crearance in the swingarm. It is THAT close. I had to machine a spacer, to ensure the tire was PERFECTLY centered. I also used this opportunity to balance the tire with 3 oz. of Dyna beads. I can say, they balance well. I was totally sceptical, but they work!-----Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Thanks Metal Guy, that gives me a start what to look for. I've got my Vision Shack all ready and will probably start the shake down in mid-june to pull the tires, exhaust, belt and pulley. If I go Dark Side I'll do the dyna beads as well and I want to SuperMax my pulley as well (www.supermax.net). It'll be down for a while, in the middle of prime riding season, but wait, I ride all the time so there is not prime riding season. I've got 42,700 on the clock now and my belt looks perfect, but prudence says change it now. If I get 30k or more out of the car tire I'll stay dark side, if not, I'll stay with the E3. My guess is though I'll be thoroughly agreeable with a car tire, but have thought to do both, but getting a second rim and switching out when I do the long trips. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | as with someone else that asked about SIZES and make & models of the car tires being used. i am also very curious with WHO installed them for you.. around here motorcycle dealers with NOT install a car tire on a motorcycle for legal/insurance reasons.. So when i had my car tire installed on my vulcan 2000. i took the rear wheel to a mini indy dealer and he did it (off the books). i paid him cash. i was his test pilot. after a few months he did it to his own motorcycle! Honda valk.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | My dealer said he'll do whatever I pay him to do. I forewarned him that I might go with the car tire but the more I think about it the more I can't bring myself to do it. I ask myself will it really be worth trading off even the slightest deviation of ride and handling for a few more miles on the bike without taking it down to change out the tire?
The one thing I like about the Vision is it seems whatever I'm thinking it does it. With the Wing, I had to fight it to do what I wanted it to do, with too many closer calls than I wanted. With the Vision, even with close calls I'm as cool as a cucumber. The only shake-up to date is when that lady ran the redlight a few weeks ago and almost broadsided me had I not dropped it at the last second. I don't want to trade out even the slightest degree of reaction time on the roads around here. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | See my dealers around he actually get pissed off about the idea of a car tire on a bike and try to use safety as a way to change your mind. The bottom line is, your taking money away from them. No more motorcycle tires and alot less Labor for all the tire changes you will NO longer need. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 154
Cabot Arkansas | I think the big heavy V8 powered Boss Hoss bikes used to come from the factory with a car tire on the rear.I have ridden a Valkerye with one and I didn't find it much different than my Jackpot with the 250 rear as far as handling and turns
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | just for the hell of it i went online and started looking up prices on a new replacement rear tire... wow!! $200 for a rear tire. when i had my 250/40-18 tire, it wasnt even $200. Then if you factor in tax, labor etc.. thats some chance for a short tire life, that is compared to a car tire... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I rode a Valk with a car tire on it and it hated curves. It would do it but there was no such thing as setting your line and holding it there. You always had a lot of forward pressure on the lower grip. I had ridden that bike prior to the car tire and it handled much better before the change. The car tire lasted forever, braked better in a straight line and would be a great option for pulling a trailer on the interstate or mild backroads. My .02. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Check out wwwdirectlineparts.com
Use the GL1800 Goldwing page and you will find a great assortment of tires (tires for the GL1800 are the EXACT same size as used on the Vision) with FREE SHIPPING from Dunlop, Metzler, Avon, and Bridgestone, here is the direct link to the tire page:
http://www.directlineparts.com/byProduct.asp?prd=Tires&str=4
I have to agree with Songfan, I've ridden a Honda VTX 1800 with a car tire, slow speed handling sucked with MUCH more effort to control the handlebars and curves at speed you have to apply constant heavy pressure to keep the bike leaned over, on the plus side the car tire handled straight line rain riding better and braked better in both wet and dry conditions. It seems to me the biggest reason that most people use for going with a car tire is cost. With the handling characteristics in mind, how much cost is your safety worth? I got over 15K miles on a set of Dunlop Elite 3s on my Goldwing, I expect to get similar results on the Vision although my front tire is cupping pretty bad at 12K miles. Other than the cupping I still have lots of tread life left before I reach the wear bars. I run my tires at 41 psi front and rear and check them every few days. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | that link fort the goldwing tires are still $200 EACH for a rear tire! plus labor and shipping etc. would it be safe to say that afterwards it would cost you Over $300 just for a rear tire after it is installed? What is the average rear tire life anyways on a Vision. (average) |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | my side walls on my E3's are great its the center that is really wearing quickly. i have just under 8000miles on them. Im not sure they are legal to pass inspection. Does anyone know whats involved or how hard it is to remove the rear wheel. If i can do the labor and just give the dealer the wheels to install and balance the new tires that might help.. I had no idea that rear tire was MORE money that my 250 rear tire was. and they are both E3'S |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I got 15K rear, 22K front. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | if i can get 15K i would be happy.. now was that 15K and you were still with in legal safety inspection limits? or 15K bald ?
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Arkainzeye - 2009-06-02 2:15 PM
my side walls on my E3's are great its the center that is really wearing quickly. i have just under 8000miles on them. Im not sure they are legal to pass inspection. Does anyone know whats involved or how hard it is to remove the rear wheel. If i can do the labor and just give the dealer the wheels to install and balance the new tires that might help.. I had no idea that rear tire was MORE money that my 250 rear tire was. and they are both E3'S
You can go to my gallery and on page two I posted pictures and comments last year how to remove the rear wheel. It may help you if you decide to do it yourself. Also, if you have the service manual, that would help, I think it is here on the site somewhere. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arkainzeye - 2009-06-02 4:38 PM
if i can get 15K i would be happy.. now was that 15K and you were still with in legal safety inspection limits? or 15K bald ?
For me I ran 15/22 but it should have been 14/21. I'm at like 13/21 and the front is done, the rear got's another 1K on it. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Arkainzeye - 2009-06-02 2:11 PM that link fort the goldwing tires are still $200 EACH for a rear tire! plus labor and shipping etc. would it be safe to say that afterwards it would cost you Over $300 just for a rear tire after it is installed? What is the average rear tire life anyways on a Vision. (average) That is possible, I usually change tires as a complete set as my dealer (a Honda dealer and former Victory dealer) charges $150 to change tires if I bring the bike in, if I bring in the wheels it's $35 per wheel to mount and balance.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Arkainzeye - 2009-06-02 2:38 PM if i can get 15K i would be happy.. now was that 15K and you were still with in legal safety inspection limits? or 15K bald ? That was 15K with the wear bars just starting to touch, most states that I know of that do inspections (thankfully not here in Illinois yet!), usually check by the built in indicators or use a tread depth gauge with 1 mm rear and 2 mm front being the minimum tread depths. If you got only 8000 miles on your rear and it needs replacement I would politely suggest that you consider running your tires at higher pressures than what Victory recommends. In the first couple of years of the Honda GL1800 Goldwing, Honda was recommending 38 psi for the rear and 36 psi for the front and when the tire manufacture was consulted (Dunlop) the factory reps stated you can NEVER go wrong by running the tires at the max cold pressure as is molded in the tire sidewall, for the Dunlop E3s this is 41 psi. Once most GL1800 owners started running the higher pressures tire life went up dramatically.
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | VisionTex, thank you so much for sharing the photos and the info on removing the rear wheel! Now i dont think im afraid to do it. just wondering are you able to remove Both wheels at the sametime and balance the vision? Just wondering.. |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Arkainzeye - 2009-06-02 2:15 PM my side walls on my E3's are great its the center that is really wearing quickly. i have just under 8000miles on them. Im not sure they are legal to pass inspection. Does anyone know whats involved or how hard it is to remove the rear wheel. If i can do the labor and just give the dealer the wheels to install and balance the new tires that might help.. I had no idea that rear tire was MORE money that my 250 rear tire was. and they are both E3'S Hey Chris how you doing? I got 13,000 miles on my last rear tire on the Vision and you know I ride fast and hard. One thing that helped is using the Dyna Beads for tire balancing. They say they increase the tire life about 25% and I agree as I only got 9,000 to 10,000 miles on the first two rear tires. I buy my Dunlop Elite III's for $179.00 on-line and you can find some dealers who will install the back tire for $55.00 or less. You also have to remember that tire prices have gone up over the last two years. I just got tires priced for one of my cars and I was shocked. I would never go with a car tire on a two wheel motorcycle unless you don't care about safety or handling. Don't let a few bucks cause you loose your life or your enjoyment. My Dad said it best "The bitterness of a poor product or service will linger long after the sweetness of a low price". |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | MetalfabricatorGuy, my inquiry was just, that an inquiry, had never heard of such, couldn't see why you couldn't do it. I've thoroughly enjoyed the rat rod bike, wish I had the skill set for it. Why would you build a rat rod bike, never heard of it and my mind doesn't wander to far out to question you can build something like that. Very cool, would probably build one, if I could figure it out. Adding a car tire, would just add to the dynamic of that bike. I have never seen a car tire have a rolled edge like the bike tires. I noticed on the last set of E3's before I put them on, that the tire has a distinctive center piece to it where I wind up having a raised center section. Apparently it is done for mileage purposes. I am watching this thread just to learn. Thanks and Go, America!
I just replaced both tires. I Dropped the front and the rear at the same time. Balanced the bike on a motorcycle jack.
I got 16K on the rear and it was bald and well overdue. The front also 16K and the tire was down to the wear bars, with some pretty heavy cupping. New tires and it drives like a champ.
You will need a 16mm allen wrench with a socket head, but of course you won't be able to find one for the front axle, so a 5/8 allen works perfectly. Sears has them, in a set of course. While your there pick up some allens with the socket end that go from 4-10mm, you'll need them to work on some of the other parts.of the bike, this is from my mechanic and not Snap-On.
For the rear, two bolts for the shock, and remove the axle nut, hopefully you don't have to mess with the adjusters, I didn't have to, WHEWWWWWW!!!!!!!!! Thank goodness and still no squeak.
I bought mine from the dealer. He was able to match the online price for a few bucks over and then he mounted them for free. Out the door at a little over $400. I still had to take them home and put them on the bike. Not too bad surprisingly.
FYI - I did not remove the front calipers, I slid the tire out at a little bit of an angle when the rotor cleared the calipers and slid the tire right out. It took me a moment to figure out how to put the tire back in. Everything slid right back together. Oh yeah, don't forget to lube your axle just for rust prevention and slipperyness. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Thanks for the comeback Spock, I've decided I cannot bring myself to go dark, to each their own. If I was riding just a motorcycle I might do it, like if I had a GoldWing or a Harley. To me, it would be an insult to the Bentley of bikes. It had little to do with cost, it was more of a utility move, ride longer on a tire. But hey, I knew what it needed when I got and it give the opportunty to stop for a day or two and check it over while it is down. I'm at the point to put it in the hanger, keeping a close eye on the front tire. Rear tire still has meat, but the front is a peeled onion right about now, spotted with tread. I figure I've got a slick that sticks to the road unless it rains. When it goes into the hanger, it'll be there for about a week or so, new tires, belt and exhaust gaskets. I'm keeping the pulley for another run, I can't see the harm it is doing, my belt is still perfect. I almost hate to change it but I'm sure it is stressing on the inside even though it looks great on the outside, sort of like a lot of people I know.
Podude, that is indeed a 5/8 inch allen, but I got the single ratchet attachment verses a set, Craftsman has them and they are pretty too. I searched high and low and I don't think no one makes a 16 mm, I think it is a Vision plot by Harley, but I'm please to know that most of the Metric hardware will actually cross-reference to AMERICAN STANDARD, just as the Vision is.
Talking about confused, but that is what we get owning a Vision. The japper bikers won't talk to us because we ride an American V-twin and the Harley guys won't talk to us because, well, we don't ride a Harley. So I guess it's clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck, in the middle with you.! |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | Pollo-dude,
"building" the rat was easy. Take one weather-worn $200.00 Honda v-twin, scrape the rust off the forks, replace all leaking seals, fix gummed up carbs, replace battery, add fresh fuel....ride! I sprayed everything rusty with flat black when I got the rat, and took off the parts I found to be dorky. I really didn't care for the two-up seat, and removed the rear...and found electronics under the rear seat! (ignitors) So...I relocated them under the front seat by removing the resivoir for the "reserve" tank, which never told me I was about to run out of gas, anyway....And installed an old Harley rear fender on the rat with Lowe's mail boxes for saddlebags. When i installed the huge rear tire, I had no clearance for the fender-to-tire, so I ditched that fender, and bought a $22.00 trailer one from Grainger, and added sides to it, frenched the plate 1/2", and added L.E.D. lights for the tails, brake, and blinkers. I then addressed the no reserve tank issue, by finding a Sporty tank with cap and petcock on craigslist for $150. I found out last night that the reserve does indeed work! Yay! I also replaced the headlight with one from a Russian truck I found while in Iraq. Very unique. I will do some changes this winter to it as well. I want to make a guage cluster (Speedo, etc.) from a 105 MM Howitzer round I got from an AC-130 gunship. Should be ...interesting.
Back to the tire... I have some theory work on why my rat doesn't seem to have the handling issues mentioned on a Valk, and VTX above. My rat weighs a whole lot less, for one, and I believe that has a whole lot to do with it. Also, it would depend upon the width of the tires on those bikes tested, and the profile, too. The tire on the rat is quite square in profile. Some, like the Goodyear triple tread have a curve to the bottom, and seem to be favorites for the larger bikes. If/when I go darkside with my Vision, I will search for a tire with a rounded profile. 500 miles on the darkside so far, the rat is diggen it.-------Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I dont think you'll find anyone riding a Boss Hoss in anything less than perfect riding conditions. Dont want to be the first to try something and find out it doesen't work. Im at that age where getting down is no problem, getting back up is a BIG problem. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIj1XrmvLM&feature=youtube_gdata_pl... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 233
flagstaff, AZ | Arkainzeye - 2012-03-28 9:55 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIj1XrmvLM&feature=youtube_gdata_pl...
curious how far you were laying the bike over in those turns. seems there is quite a bit of tire contacting the road. |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | I have been using the Michelin Primacy 195/55/16 for the last year. 22,000 to 25,000 before I need to replace. It still pulls the center out of the tire, must be the torque. ET |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| ets, I used the Potenza in a 185... It worked fine while I had it on but I hated the way it felt. Reminded me of riding on a bike tire after the center goes flat from too many hwy miles. On the plus side it was easier to balance the bike at a stop light, lol.... |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | The Primacy has rounded shoulders, it rolls over with less effort. No trailer hitch. Only bad thing is that it is a summer only tire, not made for snow( varyder?). Does well in rain also. ET
Edited by etspastimes 2012-03-28 7:37 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | etspastimes - 2012-03-28 8:36 PM The Primacy has rounded shoulders, it rolls over with less effort. No trailer hitch. Only bad thing is that it is a summer only tire, not made for snow( varyder?). Does well in rain also. ET I figure if the E3 does well in the snow, so would Primacy, but I don't know if I'd ever find out. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | Went with the 175/60R16 Dunlop Winter Sport; I don't even know it is on there. I have set up cones in a parking lot and see no difference in handling at slow speeds. This tire was designed for a 5" rim, is narrower and initiates turns with little effort. I seems that much of the "different feel" may be because of pressure; 34-36psi seems to work for me with this tire. It wasn't about money for me, I got pissed with the Dunlop when it started cupping between 7&8k; I ran 41psi and checked 3 times a week. That tire was so loud in an agressive corner that there is no way that contact area was what it should be; how can that be safe.
Jim |
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Tourer
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Moravia, IA | Been dark on the Vision since after the first tire change.....love it and see no reason to go back. The bike corners just fine with the car tire. Its just different, you have to get used to it. When I try a different brand of MC tires on my other bikes it takes a few miles to get used to the new handling.....same thing with the car tire.
Nothing wrong with the E3s......they just didnt last, cupped horribly and cost to much. There are some E3s out there that are just about as square as my car tire....usually mine would start cupping bad at about 6K. |
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Visionary
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | I found no difference in cornering and control from the E3s to the Dunlop Wintersport RunFlat 175/60R16. The only time I'm aware that I have a CT on is when I'm going slow and straight over uneven surfaces, it bobs side-to-side instead of up-down now. Kinda like going from skiis to a snowboard. |
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Cruiser
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lakes region, NH | The three wheeled spyder has them and eventhough it doesn't lean, there is huge amounts of side force in the corners. Also think about those stunt drivers who put a car up on it's side riding on the 2 left tires? just a thought about the safety of the idea. |
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New Bohemia, VA | Double post joke time. I'm at a loss...
Edited by varyder 2012-03-29 12:22 PM
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New Bohemia, VA | Airplane tires look like motorcycle tires, maybe can try those. |
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Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | varyder - 2012-03-29 10:18 AM Airplane tires look like motorcycle tires, maybe can try those. YES ! Probably the LAST tires you will ever need (for a variety of reasons) ! |
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Akron, Ohio | I like the darkside rear but the jury is still out on the 140/70/18 front. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Im running a 120/90-18 on the front (with a different fender). Seems to be working just fine.......not sure I like the wider profile cause it does seem to "track" grooves really bad.....but maybe its just me. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Don't get a 140/70r18 Metzler tire! It is too big for the fender and you will rub a hole through it. Don't know why, but it is 1/4" taller than the 140/70b18 Battlax. 1/2" taller than stock E3s.
aaronrkelly, a 120/90 would be narrower and taller than a 130/70. |
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Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I agree 100% with Nozzeldog on the way the bike handles with the dark side tire. Plus a softer ride and the better rear brake. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Just replaced my front E3 with a BS Battlax BT-45R (R=rear) 140/70v18, @38lbs. Matches up well with my BS G019 175/55R16, @37 lbs. Makes it the sweetest handling bike ever. Repaced my first E3 with a few k left on it because it wasn't handling good the first time. Had the CT on then and with the new front it handled good again. Next one was almost slick and the bike handle poorly & hard riding. The front of a vision is heavy and needs a bigger tire. E3 is too small for it. This new BT-45R handles like a dream. Better than 2 E3's on. Since it has more tread depth it rides softer & I expect it will last much longer (more tread depth). Handleing is the big reason I love it. Running the tire in reverse of the arrow. Both I and the installer said that would be to keep from Hy-droplaning (pushes the water out) THIS IS A GREAT COMBINATION. I'll never run E3's again! |
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Puddle Jumper
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Ft Worth Texas | I was going to keep my mouth shut on this one......but... 15 months of ownership of my Vision and I've got 31,104 miles as of today. I really wanted the Potenza to work, but after 400 miles I took it off. If you ride freeways and more freeways this tire will work fine. As soon as you start riding twistys, your confidence in the motorcycle goes away...the rear end felt terrible!!!! Unwanted movement that made you pucker up....So I have that Potenza in the garage if someone wants to give it a try(cheap) |
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Pittsburgh, PA | guys guys guys... now come on... everyone on here KNOWS for a fact.... the world is flat... if you sail to far, you WILL fall off the edge.. scientists know this for a fact.. So why even bother trying it... |
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New Mexico | sburkett199 - 2013-07-15 8:41 PM
I was going to keep my mouth shut on this one......but... 15 months of ownership of my Vision and I've got 31,104 miles as of today. I really wanted the Potenza to work, but after 400 miles I took it off. If you ride freeways and more freeways this tire will work fine. As soon as you start riding twistys, your confidence in the motorcycle goes away...the rear end felt terrible!!!! Unwanted movement that made you pucker up....So I have that Potenza in the garage if someone wants to give it a try(cheap)
I hated it for the first several hundred miles too. But then it got much better after that. I got used to the minuses, concentrated on the pluses. All gooooood since.
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New Bohemia, VA | Boots - 2013-07-16 12:23 PM I hated it for the first several hundred miles too. But then it got much better after that. I got used to the minuses, concentrated on the pluses. All gooooood since. It's in all honesty that what you have said here, and what I've read the PRO-CT expert say that I will never go to a CT unless I ride the Dalton Highway, or I have little other choice to get home from a stranded situation. At the end of the day, there are only two true benefits, if you care to count them over what you lose. |
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Posts: 599
New Mexico | Two...Hmmm....Guess if I had to narrow it down to two...
Safety
Cost
Edited by Boots 2013-07-16 12:15 PM
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New Bohemia, VA | Safe is a subjective word, tout if you will. |
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coweta ok | I like my ct a lot. won't go back. 195/55/16 bridgestone potenza, gonna go with a sport bike rear tire on the front as soon as okie vision lets me know how many miles he gets outa his.  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | LOL, about 2K.
I have a Avon Cobra being delivered Friday that's going on the front for our trip to Spirit Lake.
Just yanked the Michelin rear and installed a Dunlop Wintersport yesterday.
Probably the last 175 Dunnie on the planet 
Edited by okie vision 2013-07-16 4:20 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 166
Bullhead City, AZ | ! now have 12 K on the potenza no problems so far. The tire looks almost new. I would of had to replace the E3 by now. I also started using the rear brake more as with the E3 would lock up muck faster than the Potenza. Just changed the brake pads for first time 38500 on the bike. The back pad was just an outline. |
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Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | same here, i have 11000 on my good year assurance fuel max tire and it looks like new still... my dunlup E3 was showing weird wear at 4k and got worse quickly after. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Just got back from a 6K trip to B.C. then to Sturgis & home. The front 140x70v18 has 8K and still looks like new. The rear 175 Potenza has 15K and still looks like new. I run 36 in the rear loaded down with Camping gear & it handles with the best of the non CT bikes. The rear is very sensative to the amount of air you have in it. Start out low and build up the air pressure till it feels rite. Remember in cars these tires are run from 28 to 32 lbs. so your not under inflating them. Both tires run cooler then E3's, |
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Fargo, ND | Read the post labeled "Darkside Convert" a bit further down the list and you will get an honest opinion about riding the "darkside". No one sided effort to recruit anyone over, just my opinion.
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | I just LOVE the 'darksider' discussions !
I have been a student of ANYTHING that will make my motorcycling better for more than 50 years. (That's why I own a Vision).
And my 'study' has included reading nearly EVERY discussion written --- BY EXPERTS --- about using Car Tires on bikes. And I have read zillions of words written by 'Cheap Bastages' explaining how much better we all would be - using CT's instead of the miserable shit the Manufacturers put on our bikes.
My 'study' has also included experience on many bikes over 53 years - and NONE of my BIKE TIRES has ever let me down at the job they were designed for.
And in my 'study' not a SINGLE tire engineer has suggested that CT's might work better. In fact - they ALL have pleaded "Please Don't Do It !!! "
So please - keep up the amusing stories. At my age, I need all you experts to show us all how wrong we have been over the years. And the LAUGHTER that you provide.
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Central Maryland | Now Don... do you really think any of us deem you as some sort of serious student of motorcycle studies; when you've stated in past posts that you can simply judge the tire pressure of a tire; simply by looking at it?
You are the one that is amusing Sir. Go mix another vodka and come back to retort. |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Hey now Willtill, Hold on! To be fair, it's not just car tire usage that makes us all stupid...
It's also Kill Switches
donetracey - 2013-08-09 12:58 AM
35+ years of wishing I could shove kill switches up the ass of the fool who came up with the idea ...
And Smart Phone apps
donetracey - 2013-07-17 6:07 PM
When I ride - I just drive the bike. When I stop - I have a REAL computer to give me REAL GOOGLE answers to my questions.
... REAL computer - with keyboard and mouse. Frickin' dumb 'smart' phone I don't even like making phone calls on it.
And lowering the bike
donetracey - 2013-05-16 11:23 PM
Why would you tamper with the original design? I don't understand ...
I am a only 5'8" and my feet are FLAT on the ground with my Vision. Many of my prior bikes I could only do "tip-toe" with one foot - but I NEVER considered messing with the bike to change things. The engineering that goes into the final design is NOT something that I would change.
And bright/modulating headlights
donetracey - 2013-05-14 6:15 PM
The VV is one of the best bikes out there that can be seen - WITHOUT annoying folks. And MODULATORS!!! I want to SMASH them with my secret laser ray gun - but I'm too polite ...
And winter storage
donetracey - 2013-02-18 12:19 AM
Longer than you will own your bike. Worry about something important.
And more Oil threads than I care to readdonetracey - 2011-06-22 8:01 PM
Just finished a 2800 mile trip to the Grand Canyon. Didn't check my oil once. Might help if I knew how.
I pay my dealer some money - he says he puts in some oil and a chrome filter somewhere.
I'm happy. The bike's happy. My dealer's happy. Who needs the agrivation? Pay 30K for a bike - and go cheap? Life's TOO short ....
After looking through the archives I'm amazed I have lived this long as stupid as I am!
I could go on and on, but I've wasted enough of my Saturday morning on this.
Edited by Boots 2013-08-17 10:16 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Got to give him credit. He may be a annoying blowhard know it all tool, but he is consistant at it. Reminds me of cliff Calvin from the show Cheers, will. Always tell you everything you never wanted to know and how to feel about it. |
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New Bohemia, VA | come on now, it's all good forum fodder. Right or wrong, Don helps keep things in perspective. I am amazed myself about some of the things folks come up and then act like giddy little school girls about it. |
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Central Maryland | Boots - 2013-08-17 11:03 AM
Hey now Willtill, Hold on! To be fair, it's not just car tire usage that makes us all stupid...
It's also Kill Switches
donetracey - 2013-08-09 12:58 AM
35+ years of wishing I could shove kill switches up the ass of the fool who came up with the idea ...
And Smart Phone apps
donetracey - 2013-07-17 6:07 PM
When I ride - I just drive the bike. When I stop - I have a REAL computer to give me REAL GOOGLE answers to my questions.
... REAL computer - with keyboard and mouse. Frickin' dumb 'smart' phone I don't even like making phone calls on it.
And lowering the bike
donetracey - 2013-05-16 11:23 PM
Why would you tamper with the original design? I don't understand ...
I am a only 5'8" and my feet are FLAT on the ground with my Vision. Many of my prior bikes I could only do "tip-toe" with one foot - but I NEVER considered messing with the bike to change things. The engineering that goes into the final design is NOT something that I would change.
And bright/modulating headlights
donetracey - 2013-05-14 6:15 PM
The VV is one of the best bikes out there that can be seen - WITHOUT annoying folks. And MODULATORS!!! I want to SMASH them with my secret laser ray gun - but I'm too polite ...
And winter storage
donetracey - 2013-02-18 12:19 AM
Longer than you will own your bike. Worry about something important.
And more Oil threads than I care to readdonetracey - 2011-06-22 8:01 PM
Just finished a 2800 mile trip to the Grand Canyon. Didn't check my oil once. Might help if I knew how.
I pay my dealer some money - he says he puts in some oil and a chrome filter somewhere.
I'm happy. The bike's happy. My dealer's happy. Who needs the agrivation? Pay 30K for a bike - and go cheap? Life's TOO short ....
After looking through the archives I'm amazed I have lived this long as stupid as I am!
I could go on and on, but I've wasted enough of my Saturday morning on this.
Awesome post Boots!!! Thanks for the laugh And Don; we luv ya man! |
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Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Great job BOOTS !
Everything works ... I amuse you. And the things you do and say amuse me. That's what this is about, right?
I love the "giddy little school girl" responses that Chris refers to. Keep it up !!!
OH - and some nice 'proof' to your claims would be interesting - not just how you 'feel' about it. I really DO research my concerns (and not just seek out the opinions of others who tell you how they 'feel' about it).
Have a great weekend, everyone! My surgery is healing, and I hope to get on the bike for the first time in 5 weeks. Love my E3's ...
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Of course is all good Don. It takes all kinds to make the world go round.
I Love ya, but heck, we don't have to agree. It's not like I'm gonna MARRY you!
And as I recall, you have done pretty well in that department already :-)
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Central Maryland | Don... just to make you feel relevant with your HIGHLY opinionated opinion... I; myself recently bought an extra set of E3's on sale from Honda Direct Line... sitting in the crawl space waiting for the OEM's to wear out (I got 15K on 'em now... and looks like the rear will go to 20K easily... the front tire... maybe 25K)
(..have some Shinko 705's sitting on top of 'em below, for my DR650)
The Dunlop E3 is a great tire. Perfect for the Vision IMHO... but I think my Triumph Rocket's rear shoe is going to be replaced with a car tire. That Rocket's torque just eats M/C tires up....!!!
Edited by willtill 2013-08-17 5:10 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL |
donetracey - 2013-08-17 12:41 PM OH - and some nice 'proof' to your claims would be interesting - not just how you 'feel' about it. I really DO research my concerns (and not just seek out the opinions of others who tell you how they 'feel' about it). .. This request for proof can go both ways here Don. You have any links to any of these articles you have researched?? You state that you have read nearly EVERY discussion written by EXPERTS. So I'm assuming it won't take you but a short few moments to link to a few of these articles. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Louisville, KY | I probably won"t go to a car tire on my vision because I love the way it handles and the e3's seem to wear well. But I ran over 60,000 miles on car tires on my VN2000 with no troubles at all. In fact I used to joke with people about it all the time. People would say "why do you run a car tire?" and I would say "the truck tire rubbed in the fender". |
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Lotzafun - 2013-08-17 8:50 PM
This request for proof can go both ways here Don.
You have any links to any of these articles you have researched?? You state that you have read nearly EVERY discussion written by EXPERTS. So I'm assuming it won't take you but a short few moments to link to a few of these articles. NOPE. Why should I do the work that YOU should have done? BUT .... I am a consultant and I guess I could do some work for you. My rates are $200/hr and I would require an initial deposit of $2000 to begin work. How would you like to arrange payment? One of my first tasks would be to get my nephew to return my Motorcycle Magazine archives that are in 5 cartons covering the years from 1980's thru early 2000's. Then I would have access to the DOZENS of articles written by the most knowledgeable experts about the dangers of using CT's on a motorcycle. And not ONE article about how they are OK. Or you could do the research yourself - on line - providing you are NOT just reading the opinion of people who DON'T KNOW !!! --- NOT the people who design, engineer and test. Or just continue to be a cheap bastage, living on the edge ...  |
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Central Maryland | Your answer is pretty sorry Don, it's full of bullshit. You cannot present proof because YOU CAN'T. And that was a sorry assed way to hide the fact that you can't.
Don, show us proof that a C/T is dangerous on a motorcycle. Show us evidence that a C/T has caused an accident or a M/C malfunction on a motorcycle.
The crickets should be chirping indefinitely for your response with documented proof. Not a written opinion of an "Expert". we want to see proof. evidence.
Mind you Sir, again we want to see proof; do not present someone else wagging their tongue saying that they are unsafe. There are THOUSANDS of motorcyclists that are running C/T's on motorcycles; PROVING that they do work and are safe; FACTUAL real time proof right in front of your very eyes if you would just open them and accept what you are seeing; instead of regurgitating opinions of others whom cannot fathom reality and actual use of a C/T on a motorcycle. |
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, WI | I have read an article about the new Indians but I have never ridden one. I am an Indian expert? |
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Here is a quote from a guy who is a professional motorcycle writer:
"Knowing what I do about the dynamics of motorcycles, (and to be fair here I'm not a big fan of overly wide motorcycle tires either) I think I'll put my faith in the engineering staffs at Dunlop, Avon, and Metzler etc, and stick with motorcycle tires on my bikes, at least until someone can prove me wrong."
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/0907_crup_mounting_car_tires_...
And I will agree with Mark Zimmerman - until someone can prove ME wrong.
Even at my age - I ride my Vision like it's a sport bike - on the back roads of British Columbia, and Washington St. and I want the tires that are designed for that. Saving a buck is not the same as saving a life. I'll do what I think is right. Darksider's do what they think is best. Fair enough ...
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| The rest of the quote " Along those lines, I'll make a standing offer to any Darksider. Since I don't own a motorcycle that'll accept a car tire, and I'm fairly sure Honda would have a hemmorage if I installed one on my long term VTX, I'm going to ask one of you guys to hook me up. If you're game, we'll meet some sunny Sunday and take a ride. I'll show you some of my favorite roads and I'll even spring for lunch. If the car tire works as well as you say it does, I'll be happy to say so in print, you've got my and Motorcycle Cruiser's word on it. Any takers?" Of course, this was 4 years ago.
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Posts: 4278
| go to youtube and you can find videos of CT's on bikes.
No one says you can corner like a motorcycle tire but you get close and a CT is only a 100 bucks every four years you just have to ride what you desire |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Nothing new! My kind of touring bike. Skid plate, spare gasoline and car tires! A Douglas from the 30's - 
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| johnnyvision - 2013-08-18 7:05 PM....
No one says you can corner like a motorcycle tire...
Actually, you are only the second person I can think of on these and the other victory forums to acknowledge this. Everyone else seems to think the car tire actually handles better than a motorcycle tire.
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | I think most agree that a MT can outperform a CT, It's just that both can outperform the Vision. What difference does it make if a CT gives loose at 45 degrees instead of 50 when your hitting hard parts at 35.
So far, the only ones I've heard complain about the CTs, are the people who have never tried a CT. It doesn't make a difference to me what you ride, but ;
YOU'RE NOT MY MOM, get back in your Volvo, buckle your seatbelt, make sure you don't go over 55 mph, and put your nose back where it belongs. |
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Hell, MI | Had to chime in, been looking at getting a Vision, but not sure I want to give up the safety to do it.
Don't you know how dangerous two wheeled bikes are! Why would you give up the safety of three wheels or four?
So, I take it from this thread, that you think the Vision IS safe, but draw the line at the kind of rubber it's on.
I have to say, my car tires have held up extremely well. So far I haven't heard one (scientific) reason to give up my Can-Am for a Vision. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| CanMan - 2013-08-19 12:36 PM Had to chime in, been looking at getting a Vision, but not sure I want to give up the safety to do it. Don't you know how dangerous two wheeled bikes are! Why would you give up the safety of three wheels or four? So, I take it from this thread, that you think the Vision IS safe, but draw the line at the kind of rubber it's on. I have to say, my car tires have held up extremely well. So far I haven't heard one (scientific) reason to give up my Can-Am for a Vision. so you really think that with over two million motorcycles on the road there not safe. No mater what you ride or sit in or what rubber you choise we are all at the mercy of the other guy or how deep we go into a curve |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | All you darksiders just need to get the MC designated car tires....then you guys will be "safe".....after all that car tire is gonna kill you.
  
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Central Maryland | What brand tire is that; which you posted pic's of Aaron? |
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Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Its a Kenda. |
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Central Maryland | Ah... that should have Don spitting out his Vodka martini in complete surprise
Edited by willtill 2013-08-21 6:48 AM
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| <p>After multiple rounds of coffee this morning, all the pieces came into play, found these tires and their intended use. Damn, got really giddy there for a moment. I need to learn a tade bit more on the Spyders geometry. Good find on this one!</p><p> </p>
Edited by rebelce 2013-08-21 7:19 AM
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Phenix City AL. | "Get in my Volvo" its my wifes, and its the T6 AWD, it goes 55 in first gear.
Back to CT has anyone found a replacement for the 155/65/16 wintersport ? That was the only CT I liked but they stopped making it, Whitch size and brand are you using with the hitch doc. Trailer hitch ? |
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Central Maryland | aaronrkelly - 2013-08-21 12:47 AM
All you darksiders just need to get the MC designated car tires....then you guys will be "safe".....after all that car tire is gonna kill you.
? ?
The one above looks like a Goodyear Eagle F1; from best recollection
Edited by willtill 2013-08-21 7:26 AM
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| I have a Hitch Doctor and use a 175x60R16 potenza, run @ 36lbs with passenger or camp gear |
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Darksiders?