All,

Without wearing a helmet, how far back do you have to put the fader to hear both the front and back speakers equally?  When I have my fader set exactly in the middle, I do not hear the rear speakers over the fronts (with or without the engine running).

Thanks,

Tim

clubford00 - 2009-05-18 7:00 PM And you wont either. Not without an amp. Mine is the same way. I even played with the fader while parked and my helmet is off. Basically the rear speaks are useless. Even with the fader all the way to the back the speakers are much quieter than the front.

Have you set your AVC (auto volume control) to high?  The vast majority of the time when someone posts about the radio/audio system volume not being loud enough when riding it is because they have the AVC set to either off or low.  The AVC function raises the audio volume level based on the speed of the motorcycle and all the dedicated full dress touring motorcycles such as the Vision, Goldwing, Venture, Ultra Classic, and BMW LT have such a function built into their systems.

I am in the process of testing an amp install on mine.  I looked for a very efficient amp because Victory never released the 65am charging option that I ordered with my original 2008 Vision purchase.  Knowing that I wanted to buy a touring bike, the upgraded charging system was the DEFAULT/ONLY choice the touring application.  Unfortunately, the 65amp charging option hasn't seen the light of day. 

Most car amps are class A/B which means @ 90 of the power is wasted as heat and only about 10% of the energy goes to making sound.  Home class A and Tube amps are less efficient than class A/B amps.  Digital switching amps are more efficient and can reach 80+ % efficient.  More efficient amps are better on lesser charging systems.

I have been trying different options.  My evaluation is not final, but here is what I have so far:

Here is what I have found so far:

• VICTORY NEEDS TO RELEASE THE 65AMP CHARGING OPTION !!! (driving lights, heated seats, heated grips, heated clothing, trailer lights, amplifier, etc. are normal touring options).
• The RADIOSOUND Vision radio needs pre-amp outs and a way to defeat the internal amplifiers for at least 2 reasons:
• Reduce redundant load on charging system when running better outboard amps.
• Provide cleaner interface for output amps, eliminates the need for problematic step-down transformers.
  
• The Vision needs to support 6.5" speakers front and back.  The 6.5" size offers more options in speakers and moves 150% more air which equates to better/deeper sound.
• During experimentation, I have tested speakers on my flat response home system to familiarize myself with the sound of the individual drivers.  When I install them into the bike and play them though the system, they sound much different.  It appears that something in the signal chain is changing the signal response such that the speakers response is skewed towards the high frequencies.  I have yet to isolate the cause of this, but assume their is some sort of frequency bending being done by the radio to accommodate for open air motorcycle riding.  Car installers will install bright speakers into convertibles to compensate for the top being down which might be what is going on here.  I will substitute a different radio source to validate if it is the RADIOSOUND radio or something downstream.
  
• The better the AMP/SPEAKERS sound the cleaner your upstream sources need to be.  The XM is sounding worse, while full WAV files are sounding MUCH BETTER (including high speeds with louder pipes).
• I have found 3 pockets for equipment locations.  The HD fairings offer gobs of open space, but the Vision fairing is pretty tightly packed.
  
• If you take off the rear speaker grills (2 screws each) and the passenger's backrest (3 bolts from inside of the trunk), you will find 2 pockets of space behind and under the speakers.
• If you offset the CB in the bottom of the trunk, it leaves 1/2 the channel open for other accessories.  The CB is normally mounted in the center which takes up the whole space.
• If you remove the speaker enclosures from inside of the fairing you are no longer limited to a couple of shallow speaker models.  Various places make speaker dust caps that could substituted for the OEM hard plastic shroud if you want one.  FWIW, other motorcycle manufacturers do not use speaker shrouds in their fairings.
  

I will post the rest of my findings as they occur.  Better sound can be had, but there are some obsticles in the way.

Tim

Travelin' Man,

I use both the comm system and the stereo system.  I prefer the sound of the external speakers over the comm system and the radio has various mixing modes to suit the rider's personal tastes.  With that in mind, here are my responses:

• I was responding to the question about amps in this thread, not headset communications.  
• If I was responding to questions about headsets, I would have added that I have tried/use both the Victory and the top-of-the line J&M headsets.  They are fine for stock QUIET pipes, not for stage 1 L1 or L2 pipes.  The stereo speakers sound much better than the headset speakers do with non-stock pipes.
  
• The external speakers also serve the same purpose as louder pipes by letting cages know you are there.  I bet I would not have been rear-ended at a stop light a month after I bought my Vision if I would have been using the new amp/speaker combo versus my top-of-the-line J&M headset !!!
  
• My response was targeted towards building a better product and/or better product potential for those who want it.  It seems like Victory wanted to differentiate itself with the polarizing Vision styling.  Maybe they can extend that differentiation concept to their electronic designs as well???  If they don't want to incur the higher cost of better components in their stock bikes, at least don't close the door to the aftermarket.
  
• No car or motorcycle system will EVER sound like home systems do, and I do not expect them to.  The ambient noise levels of the listening venues alone prohibits that from happening regardless of what equipment is used.
  
• The 65 amp charging system is useful for touring even if you do not have or want a stereo system.  2 sets of heated clothing and driving lights will deplete the existing charging system by itself.  I used to ride in freezing weather with out heated clothing and a fairing, but there are now better options for motorcyclists.
  
• The cost of adding pre-amp out pigtails is probably @ $5, so not much of a cost or an engineering issue to surmount.
  
• 6.5" holes would be more expensive to design then adding 4 pigtails, but not impossible, nor too expensive.  In short, this is a differentiation from the status quo and opens up more options to the customer.  The engineers should think past the norm like what they did for the body styling, or is beauty only skin-deep =).
  
• A lot of people are happy with lossy/low bitrate content playback, but ignorance isn't necessarily justification for mediocre product design, or maybe it is ???  When large populations are willing to buy lower quality products and services, this creates lucrative business opportunities that companies will jump on.  Famous companies like Microsoft have been founded on such pinciples and technologies and have been very profitable with it while furstrating populations that know the difference.  (Case and point: 

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NoGbLI3ePA

  
  

Tim

"... were you watching your mirrors as every safety course will instruct you to do ..."

Unfortunately, I could not do much for this one.  The stop light was 3 - 4 cars/trucks deep in front of me and 4 lanes wide.  I had a about 2 bike lengths to the next car bumper and then I had to go vertical.  In this case, if I had loud pipes or a loud stereo, it probably would have prevented it. 

This incident is what pushed me to get louder pipes.  I wanted a nice quiet touring bike for long distance runs but the soccer mom driving the urban assault van changed mine mind.  I do notice a difference in the cagers response to the bike now that it has louder pipes.  In questionable situations, I goose the throttle and many of the cages react accordingly.  On the down side, 600+ mile days can be fatiguing on the ears compared to the stock pipes.

"... just not the exact options YOU want ...."

Adding an external amps and better speakers are among the most common aftermarket stereo mods to bikes and cars for over 20 years.  Over the past decades, whole foreign and domestic industries have been built around provisioning for these mods.  I really can't take the credit for claiming these are my own unique exact desires.

I am also a business owner and an engineer and have been making scientific, industrial and consumer products for almost 30 years.  I am just applying current, common technology to the Vision.

BTW, my buddy just stopped over with his Vision and we did a side by side against the stock Vision system.  All we can say is night and day difference with or without the motor running.  He usually lets my bike be the prototype Guinea pig until the issues are ironed out and then adds the final version to his.

Sincerely,

Tim