Vary Poppins
varyder
Posted 2009-05-09 4:22 PM (#34122)
Subject: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

Well, the only thing I know left to do is rip the exhaust off and replace all the gaskets. I found a definite leak on the left side just as it comes out of the crossover, and all the clamps took a good turn. I'm fearing that the gaskets are toast from not being tight and that is where my problem is, at least with the poppin. After tightening, it seems to do better but I have not put it through the test yet so I'll not make any real claims now.

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Arkainzeye
Posted 2009-05-09 5:53 PM (#34126 - in reply to #34122)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


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Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
i would like to know exactly where your leak is that you found.. i would like to inspect mine. my dealer claims to have done it. but still....
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-09 7:17 PM (#34130 - in reply to #34126)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
I was on a soot mission. With the bike on the lift, motorcycle jack, I looked for soot bands and found the first one at the left side connector at the crossover, and a nice fan of black soot. Did almost a full turn on the nut for that clamp. The other one, ever so minor, was at the clamp at the collector from the header pipes. About a 1/4 to a 1/2 turn on that one. The other ones no leaks and the exhaust clamps at the jugs were tight.
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-10 3:32 PM (#34225 - in reply to #34130)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

More update on the poppins. It DOES NOT pop as bad, but it will still cut off , even with the wife unit. "uh oh, that ain't good, what does that mean?" "It means its got character."

Okay, I'm still in a firm belief it is not the gizmo's that is causing the problem, efi, o2 sensors or anything else but a vacuum leak, intake leak, or an exhaust leak. Is there any wrench want to chime in and tell me any different? Now these kind of things can be different from one bike to another, yet similar and I believe with mine, something sucks or it blows, I haven't figured out which just yet.

What do I need to do, soak it with soap and see where the bubbles are? I hate being this close to a perfect running bike and can't pin point it, but I definetly think if I can find the leak I don't have second guess everytime I get caught up in traffic, or get left sitting at a light when there is a pack of harley's gawking.

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kevinx
Posted 2009-05-10 7:27 PM (#34250 - in reply to #34122)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


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Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators
The bad news......
You will never have a 100% pop free bike. The way the idle air control operates in this generation of FI creates a momentary super lean condition whenever throttle is closed. Nothing can be done at this point, but I hope that Vic brings out a 4th generation FI in the reasonably near future

The good news.........
Your stalling has nothing to do with your popping. The symptoms are mutually exclusive to themselves. Most common causes that I have seen thus far have been a $10 circuit breaker, or dirty\loose battery connections. No solid way to trouble shoot the breaker, but it is cheap, and easy to replace. The battery is basic maintenance
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raynman
Posted 2009-05-11 2:19 PM (#34329 - in reply to #34250)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 37
Kewaskum, WI
kevinx - 2009-05-10 6:27 PM

The good news.........
Your stalling has nothing to do with your popping. The symptoms are mutually exclusive to themselves. Most common causes that I have seen thus far have been a $10 circuit breaker, or dirty\loose battery connections. No solid way to trouble shoot the breaker, but it is cheap, and easy to replace. The battery is basic maintenance


Kevin - I mentioned this to my Victory service guy, and he was wondering which circuit breaker?
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raynman
Posted 2009-05-11 2:19 PM (#34330 - in reply to #34250)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 37
Kewaskum, WI
kevinx - 2009-05-10 6:27 PM

The good news.........
Your stalling has nothing to do with your popping. The symptoms are mutually exclusive to themselves. Most common causes that I have seen thus far have been a $10 circuit breaker, or dirty\loose battery connections. No solid way to trouble shoot the breaker, but it is cheap, and easy to replace. The battery is basic maintenance


Kevin - I mentioned this to my Victory service guy, and he was wondering which circuit breaker?

OOPS - Double post

Edited by raynman 2009-05-11 2:19 PM
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kevinx
Posted 2009-05-11 9:07 PM (#34357 - in reply to #34330)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


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Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators
Tell him it is the same one that the nut recall was on[main]
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ElroyJ
Posted 2009-05-15 6:08 PM (#34701 - in reply to #34122)
Subject: RE: Vary Poppins


Tourer

Posts: 460
Centennial, CO
Well...my bike was getting worse and worse. I could hear the exhaust leak but just could not find it. The thing is it was so far back that when I did find it I was actually shocked.

I found that the baffle bolts were loose on the right side. I only found it because when I started the bike, it hiccuped and made a thunk. While looking closely I watch the baffle moving forward and backward inside the tube.

I took the S2L1 to the dealer and asked them to correct it. They asked what I did. I just laughed and said it was on the drag strip all weekend and now its making all kinds of noise. They actually thought I was serious. LMAO!

Anyway, I just home from picking it up and NO backfire, NO popping and tons of power again. So, check that if you haven't.
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Teach
Posted 2009-05-16 9:36 PM (#34764 - in reply to #34122)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


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Posts: 1436
varyder, you are stock right? I've had no popping from day one and definitely no stalling. I know how frustrating this has been for you. I'm assuming you've been running the appropriate octane but have you considered pulling the 2 sensors to see if they are carboned up? Let me type this disclaimer; Not challenging Kevin, but I am wondering if a sensor might cause both of your symptoms? Since it controls variations in the fuel air mix if it is responding slower than appropriate it could cause a pop and result in stalling? The pop can be caused by both a rich and/or lean condition, as can the stalling. So if the sensor signal is resulting in a lag the bike could be too rich when you throttle off. Again I'm tossin ideas that might be worth looking into, not challenging anyone.
One other question; You aren't one of those guys who likes to blip the throttle? That will load up the EFI faster than you can say stall. Hope its something simple
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-17 12:33 AM (#34776 - in reply to #34764)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
Another repeat. No thanks.
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VisionTex
Posted 2009-05-17 10:42 AM (#34809 - in reply to #34122)
Subject: RE: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx.
varyder - 2009-05-09 3:22 PM

Well, the only thing I know left to do is rip the exhaust off and replace all the gaskets. I found a definite leak on the left side just as it comes out of the crossover, and all the clamps took a good turn. I'm fearing that the gaskets are toast from not being tight and that is where my problem is, at least with the poppin. After tightening, it seems to do better but I have not put it through the test yet so I'll not make any real claims now.


Varyder, looked at the cross over clamp yesterday while changing oil. I too have an exhaust leak at this clamp. I loosened the clamp and then retightened, we will see if that helps with the decel pop. If not I'll have dealer take apart in a month or so and see if they can fix.
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dwhite28
Posted 2009-05-17 9:11 PM (#34841 - in reply to #34122)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Tourer

Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States
Just as a note. The exhaust is simple enough to take apart. Usually when i take one of the Vision systems apart, i take a little engine oil and wipe around the joints were they make contact. I clean the joints first. This seems to help the metal slide while the clamping force is being applied by the exhaust clamp. There is a little smell at first as the residual oil is burned off but is soon gone. I do this versus using exhaust grade silicone since it is difficult enough to pull an exhaust system apart with out adding the sealant. You may want to try this to get a good seal at every joint.
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-17 9:47 PM (#34848 - in reply to #34841)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

Thanks for the input. Since I was cagin' today because a) my leathers is still soaked, and 2) because it is still raining, (boy, I feel like such a whimp) I was thinking on my exhaust. I'm going to get with Catlin's and order all new gasket and muffer bearings. Then, when I pull the tires in about another 2K, I'll pull the exhaust down naked.

I'm also going to check out the intake as well and any vacuum hoses. I think it is in that area and not in the controllers and sensors. But don't take my word for it as I am neither a motorcycle wrench or an up to date technician. I know from old school experience that if something was poppin' it was because it was either suckin' or blowin' somewhere it ain't suppose to be.



Edited by varyder 2009-05-17 9:48 PM
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dwhite28
Posted 2009-05-17 10:17 PM (#34850 - in reply to #34122)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Tourer

Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States

Ok, wimp. lol

I rode home to Chesapeake in the rain from Fredricksburg on. lol Amazing how that 220 mile trip home was like a trip to the store after doing the Redwing19 run.



Edited by dwhite28 2009-05-17 10:18 PM
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-17 10:45 PM (#34851 - in reply to #34850)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

dwhite28 - 2009-05-17 11:17 PM Ok, wimp. l;ol I rode home to Chesapeake in the ran from Fredricksburg on. lol Amazing how that 220 mile trip home was like a trip to the store after doing the Redwing18 run.

I'm doing a short write up on the ride and hope to post soon. But we hit the rain around Harrisonburg to just out of chantilly, about a hundred miles of beating rain. I know some you other guys got it longer then us that rolled in about 8:30pm, 15 hours, an average of 69 mph. No, I never hit a 100, or got that close. Anyway on the way home it rained hard all the way to Richmond. I stopped around Thornburg and called the wife to see if was raining at home. At the time it was no so I decided to press on. But I was actually wanting to stop and take a hot shower as I was getting chilled. But I finally realized that I had a dry T and a shirt and put those on, then I was ready for another 1,000, but just did the remaining miles home.

By the way, go to Youtube.com and search on Redwing19 and find the little video I did for the day. I think it captures the essence of the whole ride. I had planned to lone wolf the entire time, but this guy just kept popping up. We were lined up side by side at the start. Then when we left I didn't see him until as we got onto I-95 south he was riding behind the Military Vet MC and I fell in with them. The MC hit an exit before Fredericksburg and that left me and him. When we got to Newport he stopped first for gas, and I stopped in Hampton before the bridge, I was riding alone, remember. Well, I hit the road again and I've got a few riders behind me now through the lower 64 and on to 58 West including the professional IBAer's, and him. So we hit the first light on 58 and he's beside me. When the light turns green I keep the front and ride through to Emporia and somewhere we lose the Pro IBAer's and it is just me and him. We get to I-64 and I wave him past as I figure I'll stop and get gas with him. I start to get concerned as I'm needing to get gas at the time he finally stop. So I told him that since I can't shake him, we can ride together since I found out he can do 200+ on a tank and he's wanting to make time. He is also the Navy seal that drew the rider number 146, the tail number of the ill-fated CH-47. This made the trip all the more special and he was not letting moss grow anywhere. Our stops were 10 flat or under and we kept a steady pace all the way. When we got back there was about 8 of the Pro IBAers, him, another harley rider and myself. By the time I left maybe 15 more came in, I was glad to hear that 409 finished.

Oh, and to keep from hi-jackin' my own thread, it never shut off, but it did pop a time or two.

 



Edited by varyder 2009-05-17 10:48 PM
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raynman
Posted 2009-05-20 1:11 PM (#35061 - in reply to #34250)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 37
Kewaskum, WI
kevinx - 2009-05-10 6:27 PM

The good news.........
Your stalling has nothing to do with your popping. The symptoms are mutually exclusive to themselves. Most common causes that I have seen thus far have been a $10 circuit breaker, or dirty\loose battery connections. No solid way to trouble shoot the breaker, but it is cheap, and easy to replace. The battery is basic maintenance


I just had my dealer replace the circuit breaker Kevin was referring to. I will check back in with you guys in a few days and let you know if it resolved my issue.
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VisionTex
Posted 2009-05-21 5:41 PM (#35149 - in reply to #34809)
Subject: RE: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx.
VisionTex - 2009-05-17 9:42 AM

varyder - 2009-05-09 3:22 PM

Well, the only thing I know left to do is rip the exhaust off and replace all the gaskets. I found a definite leak on the left side just as it comes out of the crossover, and all the clamps took a good turn. I'm fearing that the gaskets are toast from not being tight and that is where my problem is, at least with the poppin. After tightening, it seems to do better but I have not put it through the test yet so I'll not make any real claims now.


Varyder, looked at the cross over clamp yesterday while changing oil. I too have an exhaust leak at this clamp. I loosened the clamp and then retightened, we will see if that helps with the decel pop. If not I'll have dealer take apart in a month or so and see if they can fix.

Well, after I retightened the clamp on the cross over there was a great improvement. So I did a hot to cool down retighten three times over the the first three days of this week. The poppin is gone. Run her up to 4000 rpm in 3rd and the decel all the way down to 1500 rpm, no poppin. Hi rpm chop the throttle shifts, no popping. Watson, by golly I think we have found the cure!!! Attached is a picture of my cross over pipe and clamp where it was leaking. Notice the soot. The nut on the clamp is a 15mm, if anyone has the issue.



(003.JPG)



Attachments
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Attachments 003.JPG (46KB - 1 downloads)
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raynman
Posted 2009-05-24 7:45 AM (#35263 - in reply to #35061)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 37
Kewaskum, WI
raynman - 2009-05-20 12:11 PM

kevinx - 2009-05-10 6:27 PM

The good news.........
Your stalling has nothing to do with your popping. The symptoms are mutually exclusive to themselves. Most common causes that I have seen thus far have been a $10 circuit breaker, or dirty\loose battery connections. No solid way to trouble shoot the breaker, but it is cheap, and easy to replace. The battery is basic maintenance


I just had my dealer replace the circuit breaker Kevin was referring to. I will check back in with you guys in a few days and let you know if it resolved my issue.


My tech replaced the circuit breaker, and also changed the plugs (which didn't look bad to me at all). Anyway, after 500 miles, no hesitation/sputter was encountered, and it ran great. Still plenty of pops on shifts/decel, but hopefully the hesitation issue is resolved.....
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raynman
Posted 2009-05-25 3:12 PM (#35345 - in reply to #35263)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 37
Kewaskum, WI
raynman - 2009-05-24 6:45 AM

raynman - 2009-05-20 12:11 PM

kevinx - 2009-05-10 6:27 PM

The good news.........
Your stalling has nothing to do with your popping. The symptoms are mutually exclusive to themselves. Most common causes that I have seen thus far have been a $10 circuit breaker, or dirty\loose battery connections. No solid way to trouble shoot the breaker, but it is cheap, and easy to replace. The battery is basic maintenance


I just had my dealer replace the circuit breaker Kevin was referring to. I will check back in with you guys in a few days and let you know if it resolved my issue.


My tech replaced the circuit breaker, and also changed the plugs (which didn't look bad to me at all). Anyway, after 500 miles, no hesitation/sputter was encountered, and it ran great. Still plenty of pops on shifts/decel, but hopefully the hesitation issue is resolved.....


I spoke too soon. The 1st to 2nd gear hesitation/cough has resurfaced. DAMN
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-25 9:06 PM (#35362 - in reply to #35345)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

L E A K

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raynman
Posted 2009-05-26 7:57 AM (#35384 - in reply to #35362)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 37
Kewaskum, WI
varyder - 2009-05-25 8:06 PM

L E A K



Forgot to mention, I tightened all the exhaust clamps (including the crossover). Problem still persists....
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-26 8:48 AM (#35388 - in reply to #35384)
Subject: Re: Vary Poppins


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

It's killing me until I get to it, but I'm going over every inch of my intake and exaust system to ensure, double ensure there are no leaks anywhere. As technology goes I cannot imagine, though many will disagree and please do, we are after the PERMANENT solution, that we are experience bad stuff across a broad spectrum and we cannot make a good product to fix it. I say "we" meaning them who make this stuff for a living. I believe even when we "fix" the problem with a new product it is compensating for the real issue.

Merely tightening the joints will not simply fix the problem as it could be a slight leak that is not detectable, but the conditions within the sphere of influence is still affected. I rattle on about this in hopes that someone will beat me to the punch and find the real issue and fix once and for all across the board. I would like to start a list of "I did this and it fixed it." as there is NO exact combo that I have read, and I wonder how many there is that we haven't read. I do believe this, the majority of the bikes DO NOT HAVE this problem, but the ones that do on a consistant basis is suffering for something leaking, intake or exhaust. I can believe that the HUGE airbox might have problem somewhere as well.

Thanks for letting me ramble about this time and time again, but I believe for MY BIKE this is the issue and I will believe so until I eliminate that there is any leaks. I can say that mine suffered with pop and backfire and stalling and I had all that RECALL crap done and IT STILL DID IT, just not as bad. The VAST improvement came from tightening a few nuts. I did some tightening of the exhaust recently and just as of Saturday, I took a few short rides and on one of those rides it did something it never did before, never acted up one time. Throttle response was on time and everything was perfect. I thought great, it fixed itself, and then on the next ride, pop, pop, almost stall, stall. I rode to work this morning it was back to the normal way of acting.

The biggest problems have been fixed by the simpleist of solutions. 

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