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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
Texas Panhandle | How hard is it going to be to mantain the Vision. ie Belt ajustment, battery, cleaning the throddle bodies, brake pad replacement. I rode over to Hobbs, New Mexico several days ago to look at the Vision. I liked the way it felt setting on it. I liked the way the controles were set up. It sounded OK. The big thing I did not like. It looked like simple maitenance would be difficut due to removing all the plastic. Your opinions please. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | You wouldn't believe how easy it is just to change the oil. I think that was part of the thought process. For the basic wrench, easy access to mostly everything. The men on here are doing their own work on the bike. The owners manual is pretty good with instructions on how to do most maintenance. Everything on this bike is made to make the owner happy, not the dealer or company. The oil filter alone, is in a sweet little spot right under the backside of the engine. Twist, pull, drip drip. Belt adjustments can be done using the manual, and a post on the site has Pollolittle with a mission accomplishment on that. I thinkk he needed to get a deep socket and used a tool that came with the bike. easy cheesy, japaneesy. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | For the belt adjustment, either a large socket or crescent wrench and a 13mm socket. TADA. So far easy, cheesy. Agree with the Mighty Buckeye, oil change couldn't be easier. The only one easier is my 2004 GMC dually, no jack needed, crawl under attach wrench, grab oil filter, nevermind, the Vision is just as easy. Still don't know why you need that little washer. HMMMM! |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
Texas Panhandle | This is all good to know. I have mantained my scooters for ever . At 73 dollars and hour at the shop and with 3 scooters. It saves me a lot of money. Thank you for you replys. |
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | The 500 mile service was $250 at my dealership. And this bike is supposed to be serviced every 2,500 miles.
That ain't happening. I can change oil, and tighten a belt, but I can't lube cables and other small things. I
don't want to void a warranty doing maintainence myself, but I can't afford shop charges like that.
Although I don't do it, can you believe the Goldwing actually states you don't have to change the oil but every
8,000 miles. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
Texas Panhandle | g1nomad - 2007-12-18 10:31 AM
The 500 mile service was $250 at my dealership. And this bike is supposed to be serviced every 2,500 miles.
That ain't happening. I can change oil, and tighten a belt, but I can't lube cables and other small things. I
don't want to void a warranty doing maintainence myself, but I can't afford shop charges like that.
Although I don't do it, can you believe the Goldwing actually states you don't have to change the oil but every
8,000 miles.
Yea I hear ya. That's why I asked the questions I did. I like something I can maintain myself. I do everything i can myself. I have 2 Victorys. I have to clean the trottle bodies at least once some time twice a year. I do my on brakes, cables, belts ect. So I am not sure how I feel about the Vision. I hope Victory comes out with something more pratical next year. The king Pin does not offer enough storage for long runs and it only has a 4.5 gallon fuel tank. Put I could make do with it. I think I will wait another year and see what they come up with. I my or may not buy a Vision. I just don' know yet. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | i guess the only thing I can compair to is HD. thats all i've owned prior to the vision. I'll bet you only need to spend $250 a year. Change your own oil....nothing major on the maintenance cycle until 30k miles. It just calls for Inspections and oil changes till then. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Birmingham, AL 08 MC Tour Premium 2012 Bronze Mist | I'm with you guys, too easy!
I took mine in for the 500 mile service and asked how often it needed to be serviced. The shop owner quickly chimed in "every 2,500 miles". I said no, I don't mean oil changes, you know required maintenance service? Once again he says "every 2,500 miles".
Well this particular shop is the only one in a 100 mile radius of Birmingham so no choices, no competition. They've got a sign with their prices on it. An oil change ONLY is $79. Man, I couldn't believe it. Their recommended 2,500 mile service is $189. As much as we love to ride, I can't afford the service.
Where do you guys buy your filters and what type oil are you using? What are you paying for them? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Dont forget. the goldwing is watercooled. The Vision relys on air and oil cooling. Regardless of the weather it still takes a toll on the oil. I think the pretty much expect people to go a little over as far as milage before the service. If you do your own services, be sure to save receipts and document milage (wrte it on the receipt also). Document everything. Whether Victory aknowleges it or not, from a leagal perspective, it covers your butt. Its still too early to tell but victory seems to be taking responsability for their product. Personally I plan on letting the dealer take care of the services. I think I buned myself out on the e-glide. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 293
Arkansas | At $189 per 2500 mi., that's half your monthly payment if financed the whole bike price,
for five years, if one rides as much as I do (25 to 30k mi/yr).
Ask your dealer if they feel that the Victory is only half as durable as a HD, since HD only recommends service/oil changes every 5,000 mi. And the Harley holds up very well at that service interval.
Edited by jama 2007-12-19 1:48 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Does anyone consider the cost of maintenance BEFORE they buy? When I was a youngster my Mom said, If you can't afford to take care of it don't buy it. Real easy to figure out.
I normally change my own oil in both my Vics. Even changed the oil in my S-10 unless it was cold.
I can see it now, "But the dealer told me I only had to change the oil every 5,000 miles" Do you really think any dealer will set themselves up for a liability suit? Duh... Especially to someone that wants to save $2?
Someone cleans there throttle bodies every year? Buying that cheap gas? Cheap gas does not have the additives in it. Put some top end/fuel system cleaner in and see if it helps. Oops, that would cost extra.
Here you go. http://www.vespausa.com/Products/GT.cfm 1.1 qts of oil, 64 MPG, oh crap 91 octane. Damn you will have to look elsewhere or buy lower grade gas and save 30 cents a fillup........
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | BUKNAKD, I think BlueOx USA is trying to chime in on your club. It is approximately 50 cents in savings from the cheap 87 to the 91 here. I normally put 5 gallons in it. So less than the price of a soda in a very old machine. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Birmingham, AL 08 MC Tour Premium 2012 Bronze Mist | I've got no problem with providing the very best for my new baby. I always run 91 -93 octane fuel in all my bikes (mostly Chevron not the off brands). I've always used HD synthetic oil and with my Ultra I performed my own 5k services and let the dealer do the 10k. My problem is the dealer trying to charge $79 for an oil change and $189 for what I witnessed to be a brief walk around the bike and a turn signal and belt tension check.
I'll probably do my own 2.5k service and initially let them do every 5k.
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | I did all the maintenance on my Kingpin and it ran fine. Used a good motorcycle synthetic motor oil and used a Wix filter from the auto parts store, I believe they make the filter for Victory. Anyway did not have any problem, until I traded it into the dealer where I bought the Vision. They wanted to see the Maintenance records, I said I wrote everything down in the manual. Oh no that is not what they wanted, they wanted what did the dealers do, so with over 30000 miles on the KP, they did not offer me as much as I wanted on the trade.
The dealer offered a maintenance package for the Vision that I took, this covered all maintenance for three years or 30000 miles, plus I took a 5 year warranty. We will see how it works out.
On good gas vs. bad gas and cleaning throttle bodies on a Victory I don't think it makes much difference. The dirtiness of the throttle bodies is above the fuel injectors. The "dirt" actually builds up around the throttle body tubes at the butterflys. So putting in a fuel cleaner or better gas does not clean this area as the fuel is injected below the butterflys. |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | When I took my Vision in for the 500 mi check up I ran into the same thing some of you have. I stayed for the service and watched the tech do the service. It was a 50 minute job, changing oil and what they called a 33 point check of the bike. I went to pay and check out and the bill was just short of $300. Not acceptable. The billing was showing 3.3 hours of labor. After discussion (nice word) I refused to pay since I had been there the whole time and it was an hour total, I was informed that the dealers service manual "says" ---500 mile oil and service 3.3 hours. After 30 minutes of discussion(nice word) they brought the labor charge down to 1 hour plus oil and filter, little over $100. Just an FYI for those of you that still need the 500 mile, you might check before they start. |
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | Okay, what about the oil & filter package from Victory. Is it way overpriced?
Search "Victory oil change kit 2873551" on the web. That way, we couldn't
be accused of using the wrong product? It even comes with the Crush washer! LOL
Honestly, I have been using the same crush washer on the Kawasaki, and I
really had to tighten the bolt down to stop the drips. That silly aluminum washer
really must reshape itself, and should be tossed each change. |
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Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | OK, some things I understand and some I don't. I understand that many, if not most, dealers (Bike and car.) charge for labor at the 'book rate' that specifies times for each operation and not by the actual time they spend doing it. I've never yet seen a place take longer than the book rate to do a job and charge only the book rate and seldom seen a job which takes as long as the book gives for the job. I've also seen double labor charges where a part has to be removed and replaced with a new part and that job is charged as labor, and if it was necessary to remove and replace that same part to get at another part to service it, the removal and replacement of the first part is charged for again as part of the labor for the second part. My personal opinion is that these practices, though apparently common, are dead wrong. You charge for work actually performed, not an arbitrary amount of time. If dealers get the same inflated rate for warranty work it might explain why extended warranties cost as much as they do, and why companies often contest warranty claims to avoid paying inflated labor rates. Ironically, they set the rate. That part I don't understand. Maybe one of you with more savvy then I have can straighten me out. |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | Confusing to me at best on this(warranty etc) I know I was offered a "fast track" service plan that would cover service, labor, and oil changes for around $3,000. I didn't buy it, sounded high. The sales point was that my average service would cost $250-$300. I couldn't believe the average would be that high until I went in for the 500 mi. So I think that was figured on the the basis of the dealer "book says" time. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | The Maintenance contract I entered into was for 3 years/30,000 miles. It includes all the maintenance that Victory has on the schedule, labor and materials. It also covers all labor during that perior for things like putting on tires or changing a battery. The cost was $1200 for the three years and because I ride about 10000+ miles a year it looked like a good deal. Plus I get a discount price on tires and stuff, 10%. The 15000 mile and 30000 mile maintenance is the most expensive for Victory motorcycles. |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | The $1200 sounds doeable on a three year with what you described - I wasn't presented anything like that- A guys probably ahead of the game with that- |
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Cruiser
Posts: 293
Arkansas | I feel priviledged; my dealer does the first service
for free; always has. They appreciate that I bought a bike from them
and they show it! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| g1nomad - 2007-12-18 9:31 AM
The 500 mile service was $250 at my dealership. And this bike is supposed to be serviced every 2,500 miles.
That ain't happening. I can change oil, and tighten a belt, but I can't lube cables and other small things. I
don't want to void a warranty doing maintainence myself, but I can't afford shop charges like that.
Although I don't do it, can you believe the Goldwing actually states you don't have to change the oil but every
8,000 miles.
You will NOT void your warranty by doing your maintenance yourself as long as you keep your records of such things as the receipts for oil and filters, as well as noting any other things you have done to the vehicle. That is FEDERAL law and one of the reasons I refuse to buy a H-D, those dealers in my area try to force their "service plan" on you and then if you tell them that you will be doing the service yourself they will tell you that doing so "MAY" void your warranty, what crock!!! 
Actually, in my '03 GL1800 Goldwing owners manual the service interval for oil changes is 4000 miles and the OIL FILTER is changed every 8000 miles or every other oil change. Me, I'm a little what some people call "anal" about my maintenance, I change my oil and filter on all my bikes, cars, and trucks every 3000 miles minimum, or every three months on the bikes, whichever comes first. |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| cjnoho - 2007-12-18 9:36 PM
Dont forget. the goldwing is watercooled.
Yup, but the tranny and the engine still share oil. Heck, my truck's max interval is 7500, regardless, 2500 is overkill. |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| BlueOx USA - 2007-12-19 3:27 AM
Someone cleans there throttle bodies every year? Buying that cheap gas? Cheap gas does not have the additives in it. Put some top end/fuel system cleaner in and see if it helps. Oops, that would cost extra.
Sorry, throttle bodies need to be physically cleaned, top end/fuel system cleaner has no effect on the throttle bodies. |
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Tourer
Posts: 340
Regina Saskatchewan Canada | tralphaz - 2007-12-19 8:17 PM
Yup, but the tranny and the engine still share oil. Heck, my truck's max interval is 7500, regardless, 2500 is overkill.
The tranny and the engine on the Vision also shares the same oil. Correct me if I am wrong but I think the only motorcycle today that has a separate tranny and does not share the oil with the engine is the HD's.
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| No, I believe Indian, and of course alot of the "custom" bikes out there also have separate tranny oil.
Just my opinion, I think that 2500 miles is overkill, the Victory bikes are after all still technically liquid cooled but the big difference is that the Vic coolant comes in contact with all internal moving parts, not just around the cylinders and heads.
I just use a quality synthetic oil and change my oil at 5k, on my 8-Ball I'm approaching 20k, no problems and no oil consumption between changes and the periodic TB cleaning keeps it running smooth, it's pretty noticeable when it's time for the cleaning. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Tralphaz,
What do you notice when you have to clean the TB? Are you just pulling the hose to the intake manifold or what? Do tell, I can see where that might be a problem. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | The labor times are set to attract qualified technicians to work on your vehicle. Would you rather have an expierienced person do a 3 hr. repair in an hour, or would you rather have a newbe take the whole 3 hrs.? Expierienced techs see and feel problems based on their years in the field that a less qualified person might miss even if it was obvious. If they were paid by the hour, do you think they would care if you needed you bike before the big weekend? Why work harder or faster if your getting the same pay? I know it sucks but its the American way. Do we all get up early and go to work because we love are jobs? Would we still do them if they stopped paying us? Victory may make motorcycles but the do it for the money. GM may make cars & trucks but the do it for the money. Bottom line is money. Is a plumber or an electrician worth the $80-$100 hr. ? Or would you trust a day laborer to wire your house or fix your toilet at $5-$10 hr.? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | The cleaning of the throttle bodies is cleaning a "dirt ring" around the walls of the the throttle body, just below the butterflies. Cleaning it with an alcohol swab will work fine. Getting to the throttle bodies at the butterflies is most of the work. On the Kingpin it was a half hour job. On the Vision, I have not done it yet, not even sure it it will need it. Rough idle is a good sign of the problem. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| VisionTex - 2007-12-19 10:14 PM
The cleaning of the throttle bodies is cleaning a "dirt ring" around the walls of the the throttle body, just below the butterflies. Cleaning it with an alcohol swab will work fine. Getting to the throttle bodies at the butterflies is most of the work. On the Kingpin it was a half hour job. On the Vision, I have not done it yet, not even sure it it will need it. Rough idle is a good sign of the problem.
I had a Kingpin too. We had to clean the throttle bodies on that engine because the crankcase vent is routed to the intake. I`m not sure yet, it probably is on this motor also. But since the new engine uses a closed loop injection system, it can adjust slightly and we shouldn`t feel performance declining nearly as quickly. So, we will probably still need to clean those, but far less frequently. I had to do the Pin every oil change. Once when i tried rotella t synthetic, cleaning was needed at 1500 miles.
I prefer to do my own maintenance, but do let the dealer do a service occasionally, just to stay on his good side. Even then it`s a good idea to check everything over yourself, imo. Nobody is going to be as thorough as i am, not on my bike.
This engine is very tough on oil. A wet sump gets transmission and clutch exposure, a lot of shear forces are at work. Plus it`s more power than a typical (harley) air-cooled v-twin and makes more heat. Even with full synthetic, I wouldn`t extend oil change frequencies very much.
Maintenance is a piece of cake on these Vics, all you do is change the oil and filter and check everything. This drivetrain is pretty much bulletproof. |
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Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | As regards labor time, am I wrong in thinking that the wrench who does the actual work is getting paid for an 8 hour day, not by the "book time" listed for the work he actually did that day, and that the hourly rate which he is getting paid is not nearly the hourly labor rate charged customers by the dealership? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | A vetran tech gets about 20-25% of the shop labor rate. He only gets paid for work he does (book rate). If he does 10 jobs that pay 1 hr. he makes 10 hrs that day. If he does 1 job that pays 1/2 hr. he gets paid for the 1/2 hr. that day. Some shops have variations but most are that way. So its important to keep the shop busy otherwise you only attract less qualified techs. |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| pollolittle - 2007-12-19 7:29 PM
Tralphaz,
What do you notice when you have to clean the TB? On my 8-Ball it's time to clean the throttle bodies when the bike starts to run sluggish. also the idle drops to the point that I have to use the enricher lever to warm the bike up.
Are you just pulling the hose to the intake manifold or what? Do tell, I can see where that might be a problem.
On all Vics except the Vision, the tank must be removed for tb access.
I'm hoping that on the Vision, tb access will be easier because so many panels are snap on / off.
On the upside as lowtone9 said, the Vision has the closed loop and will compensate for dirty tb's where the open loop FI did not. So tb cleaning on the Vision will be more likely just a maintenance issue and not a performance issue.
I just use some foaming carb cleaner (Amsoil) and clean everything I can reach with a toothbrush including the bottom side of the butterflies. The improvement is amazing.
Edited by tralphaz 2007-12-22 6:25 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | If you take the center console off, there is a plate you can remove to access the throttle body. Since there is no mass air flow sensor, dirt could cause increased fuel consumption. Air fuel ratio is calculated based on a specific size throttle bore. Dirt reduces that size. I use clean engine oil on a rag. Wont affect the aluminum. In fact, CLEAN oil will remove most dirt and grease from just about anything. I use it to clean my hands and grease and oil spots from clothing. |
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Mantenance on the Vision