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Cruiser
Posts: 77
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For those of you wanting to set Bonneville records you can now do it as we have a unit that can bypass the speed limiter for 08-09 bikes. This will be a race unit (closed Course) and you will have to take responsibility for your actions and upgrade your tires to the appropreate speed rating. The final units should be ready by Daytona for those of you entering the race Wed. night. I'll be availible to install them while I'm there and an appiontment should be made.
For those of you with our VM1 cams a 4-8 hp increase wont be uncommon.
LLoyd |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Just curious. . . .what's the top speed of the Vision without the limiter?
Not asking for me of course. . .for a friend.
Yeah that's it. . . . . . . .a friend.
Edited by Breaker 2009-02-10 8:10 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | What's a good tire with the increased rating? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Breaker - 2009-02-10 8:04 PM
Just curious. . . .what's the top speed of the Vision without the limiter?
Not asking for me of course. . .for a friend.
Yeah that's it. . . . . . . .a friend.
I'd like to know too, first I heard of it. I know cars come with a speed limiter, related to the speed rating of the tires, probably the Law Enforcement had some influence in it as well. |
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New user
Posts: 4
| Vision top speeds are at 120 mph (some vary) Because the tires are not rated for higher speeds, the law has required manufacturers to put MPH limiters on.
I need more info on other tires, if any of you have found a better tire, post and let us know. I'm thinking Avons would work, I need to burn up this new set of elite 3's 1st though.
See ya soon Lloyd!  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Lloyd - 2009-02-10 6:22 PM For those of you with our VM1 cams a 4-8 hp increase wont be uncommon. LLoyd Call me confruzled but how will removing the limiter increase the HP???? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Lotzafun - 2009-02-11 11:20 AM
Lloyd - 2009-02-10 6:22 PM For those of you with our VM1 cams a 4-8 hp increase wont be uncommon. LLoyd Call me confruzled but how will removing the limiter increase the HP????
They cams have not reached their peak within the RPM limits of the stock ECU. More RPM gets them to that peak |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Lloyd/Kevin, What's the new redline with the limiter bypassed and new cams installed? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Ahh...I see.
In the process of eliminating the speed limiter the rev limiter is also removed....correct?
While I agree that tires should be replaced with a higher speed rating I don't think its a "requirement" though. A few years back I did a bit of research on speed ratings. Found that speed ratings where determined kinda as a "minimum" type thing. They are rated with a max sustained speed/exact inflation/minimum time/minimum conditions/minimum failure type test. Meaning something along the lines of this is the max speed these tires can safely perform over a short time period under these conditions with zero risk of failure. Or in other words "this is what keeps our lawyers and our insurance company satisfied" type rating.
One way to look at this is can you take a Q rated tire, which is rated at 100mph and run it for 120mph? Well under certain conditions....yes. With a few assumptions though....such as....single rider without luggage, average road tempratures, for a short period of time, less than 10-15 minutes. Change one of these parameters and the risk changes.
Need to keep in mind that the higher the speed rating of a tire the harder the sidewall is and the softer the tire compound is. So expect lower miles out of a higher rated tire. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Speed Rating Chart
Motorcycle Speed Ratings
Maximum Design/Test Speed
J Type 62 100
N Type 87 140
P Type 94 150
S Type 112 180
H Type 130 210
V Type 149 240
Z Type 149+ 240+
The tires on the Vision are H rated so they are designed for speeds of 130 mph according to what I have found. I looked at several motorcycle tire speed ratings that will fit the Vision, they are all H rated, could not find anything in a V rating to fit. There maybe something out that I did not see.
I used to have a Honda 650 Turbo back in the 80's which I used to go fast on. It had V rated tires on it. It had a small fairing compared to the Vision, but the shape was similar. At 140 mph on that bike the front end used to start to lift and at 145, you knew it was time to slow down and as the front started to move around A LOT. I think the same will happen with Vision with the broad sections of under plane and the large area up under the fairing where can pack in and create lift. Also, I purchased a larger wind screen for the turbo bike. When I bought it from a person in Florida that made custom screens I asked him if I could get a larger wind screen and he said NO. The reason is at these high speeds it will or could break off. Put a blade on if your going for the speed record.
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | lobsterhunter - 2009-02-11 10:21 AM
Vision top speeds are at 120 mph (some vary) Because the tires are not rated for higher speeds, the law has required manufacturers to put MPH limiters on.
I need more info on other tires, if any of you have found a better tire, post and let us know. I'm thinking Avons would work, I need to burn up this new set of elite 3's 1st though.
See ya soon Lloyd!
I ran Avon Venoms on my HD, the speed rating was "H". I haven't ridden my bike yet or have any experience with the Elite 3's, but you will love the Venoms in the rain. I got 11,000 miles out of the rear tire last season, which is about the norm unless you live in hotter areas. Then the mileage drastically decreases because of their soft tread. The also have the harder compound in the center, but do wear fast. This was on a 130 width. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | In anticipation of removing the limiter, I have begun looking for tires with the appropriate speed ratings. I cannot find a single manufacturer that makes a matched set of tires rated higher than H, that will fit the Vision. Also the load ratings on high speed rated tires look like perhaps they are intended for lighter weight sport bikes.
Am I missing something? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | The question is.... with the speed limiter removed is the Vision even capable of 130+
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | I am glad Lloyd found a way to get around the redline limiter in 6th gear. I am not worried at all about the tire ratings. The Dunlop’s are rated at 130 mph for sustained periods and no one is going to go that much over 130 mph for that long on the Vision even with the new cam and other performance tweaks to put them at risk, at least from a tire rating perspective. The Victory legal department over reacted in the first place by having engineering put the limiter in place. The Gold Wing has the same tires and has no limiter on it as well as several other motorcycles. I had heard from several sources that finding a way to bypass the limiter in the Vision's computer was going to be really hard. It proves once again that Lloyd is truly a Wizard!! |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Lotzafun - 2009-02-11 9:08 PM The question is.... with the speed limiter removed is the Vision even capable of 130+ Over a year ago on one of the forums a dealer with a pre-production Vision that did not have the limiter installed got the Vision up to 132 or 134 but it took a while. With Lloyd's modifications the Vision should get to 135 pretty quick but probably won't get much faster due to the gearing and the new readline. What do you think the top end will be with your mods Lloyd? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | I'm sure that if you strap a Nitros bottles in the bags of a Street you could produce plenty of HP to give the Vision the ability to go real fast. Then it all boils down to the size of the "Kahoonas" as to really how fast it will get. |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | I have had my Vision up to 119 and 120 about 4 times according to the GPS when it hit the rev limiter which is about 4,500 rpm in 6th gear. In August of 07 in Boston I got to ride a pre-production Vision and I got it up to between 125 and 130 on the speedometer and had to shut it down due to traffic but it still had more to go and was still pulling pretty good. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Spock - 2009-02-11 10:33 PM
Lotzafun - 2009-02-11 9:08 PM The question is.... with the speed limiter removed is the Vision even capable of 130+ Over a year ago on one of the forums a dealer with a pre-production Vision that did not have the limiter installed got the Vision up to 132 or 134 but it took a while. With Lloyd's modifications the Vision should get to 135 pretty quick but probably won't get much faster due to the gearing and the new readline. What do you think the top end will be with your mods Lloyd?
I have seen an indicated 135 on a Goldwing. Their speedometer is a bit optimistic, just as my Vision's is. I would say the the true ground speed was closer to 125. The Goldwing puts right at 100 horsepower to the ground with the power peaking around 5500 rpm. It takes a long downhill run to achieve those speeds on the 'Wing. The bike is still stable at those speeds. The Vision uses the exact same tires as the 'Wing, so I wouldn't worry about the tires. I would think that 130 mph true speed MIGHT be possible on the Vision with Lloyd's mods and the windshield in the lowest position. 130 true will probably be around 140 indicated.
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | rdbudd - 2009-02-12 11:45 AM Spock - 2009-02-11 10:33 PM Lotzafun - 2009-02-11 9:08 PM The question is.... with the speed limiter removed is the Vision even capable of 130+ Over a year ago on one of the forums a dealer with a pre-production Vision that did not have the limiter installed got the Vision up to 132 or 134 but it took a while. With Lloyd's modifications the Vision should get to 135 pretty quick but probably won't get much faster due to the gearing and the new readline. What do you think the top end will be with your mods Lloyd? I have seen an indicated 135 on a Goldwing. Their speedometer is a bit optimistic, just as my Vision's is. I would say the the true ground speed was closer to 125. The Goldwing puts right at 100 horsepower to the ground with the power peaking around 5500 rpm. It takes a long downhill run to achieve those speeds on the 'Wing. The bike is still stable at those speeds. The Vision uses the exact same tires as the 'Wing, so I wouldn't worry about the tires. I would think that 130 mph true speed MIGHT be possible on the Vision with Lloyd's mods and the windshield in the lowest position. 130 true will probably be around 140 indicated. RonnieA Vision with Lloyd's mods should smoke the Gold Wing. The Wing has about 100 hp and 103 ft lbs of torque to the rear wheel and the Vision with Lloyd's modes including removing the rev limiter will give the Vision 122 hp and 118 ft lbs of torque. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| What rated tire did Burt use on his Indian on the Salt Flats? Maybe the boot polish gave them a higher rating? :P
Safety is number one but I always think of old timers doing crazy stuff on bald bias tires.
Nice work Lloyd. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 24
savannah ga | ok ok .so whats the cost on this new item and how much to install. and last what will the new limit be set at ,will 6th be like all the other gears or does all the gears move up to a higher limit??? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Spock - 2009-02-12 2:00 PM
A Vision with Lloyd's mods should smoke the Gold Wing. The Wing has about 100 hp and 103 ft lbs of torque to the rear wheel and the Vision with Lloyd's modes including removing the rev limiter will give the Vision 122 hp and 118 ft lbs of torque.
I expect the Vision with Lloyd's mods might be a little quicker through the quarter and slightly faster on top end than a Goldwing, but I don't know about "smoking" the Goldwing, unless by "smoking" you mean anything faster than the Goldwing. Wind drag increases exponentially as the square of the speed increase, so going just a little faster takes a lot more horsepower. Still, regardless of how much faster the Vision might become, if it can beat the vaunted Goldwing through the quarter, on top end, and deliver better fuel economy at the same time, then the Vision has the bragging rights. Sounds good to me. I'm sure someone will have their Vision with Lloyd's mods on the track pretty soon and we will all know. Both the Goldwing and the BMW K1200LT will run 12.78 @ 105 in the quarter. I would guess the Vision will be capable of mid to low 12's with Lloyd's mods and around 130-135 (which will be an indicated 140-145, due to speedometer error) mph on top end. I can't wait to hear how it all turns out.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I'm guessing S1/L1 with the limiters removed would give me all I would need. I don't need to smoke anybody, I just don't want them waiting for me down the road. Hanging with a Wing or LT through West Texas all day long would be awesome. (I've quit comparing my bike to the Ultra. It's just too unfair.) |
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Speed Limiter / Gone