KevinX,

How long did the install take?  Did you have to pull the motor to replace the CAMS ?

Thanks,

Tim

mkultra - 2009-01-05 11:11 AM ... i know Lloyds are Andrews cams, ...

Mike,

Lloyds sells Andrews cams and his own cams that he is having made to his own specs.  They are NOT one and the same.  Victory is using their own Stage 2 cams in the 2009 models (don't know who they are made by, maybe S&S).

Some dealers have been using the Andrews cams that have been around for a while.  Lloydz has just released his cams just before Christmas and people are starting to use his cams. 

I will let Lloydz and/or KevinX explain the difference between the various cams.

HTH,

Tim

Happy New Year

Arkainzeye - 2009-01-05 7:06 PM since you mentioned warranty. if you do the cams you might as well forget that warranty. even if they are victory cams. cause they arent victory cams for the vision.. even know they are for a 106 engine. but try explain your claim to victory and see what they say.. If you cracked your engine and put a part there that wasnt made for that bike you can bet you would have to fight if the time came for a warranty claim. basically id say to Read your warranty. i bough the extended warranty and i will say this. out of all the bikes i have owned victory is the only one that wants Proof of your oil changes. This is in the paperwork for my victory extended warranty. That just shown me if your engine has a issue with something major they WILL be checking your paperwork! just my 2cents.

You might want to do some research on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

In a nutshell.....if you install cams and something else goes wrong the burden is ON THE DEALER to show that the cams caused some type of a failure with whatever went wrong. Meaning if you install cams and something goes wrong with your crankshaft the dealer HAS to to either honor the warranty and take care of the crankshaft or they have to PROVE the cams caused the crankshaft problem.

Since this burden of proof is on the dealer and not the consumer there is no "fight" or anything needed.

Do the research and you will understand what I'm saying

 p.s. don't mean to hijack the thread

Arkainzeye - 2009-01-06 8:04 AM The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act states that a warranty can NOT be denied IF the dealer provides the "parts" you need FREE of charge.. Example oil changes. if the dealer or maker of what ever you own provides FREE oil changes with free labor and you don’t use it and you have a warranty engine failure claim. NOW you will have a fight on your hands. If you read the entire act it states this. The Act is NOT!! For add high performance parts!! lol not even close. its for maintence related items. Items you need in order to maintain your car ,truck,motorcycle.. I think people need to actually read this act. Its not a crutch for doing whatever you want to your bike and having a get out of jail free card when your motorcycle fails on you.. Oh here is a perfect example. On this forum this is a guy that has a Vulcan 2000. with a aftermarket intake. His engine started using oil very badly, it was determined that the engine needed a rebuild! Well kaw denied the warranty because of a aftermarket intake. It was that simple. They claimed the aftermarket intake didn’t seal properly and let in dirty which caused the rings to wear. But yet others with the same bike needed a rebuild also and they had stock intakes.. But still the warranty was denied. And was legally allowed to do so… Once again Read the act.. its not for performance parts. Its for REPLACEMENT parts.. Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.

Well...I don't wish to start a debate on the finite translation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It has already been debated and translated and whatever tens of thousands of times all over the net.

I also don't wish to attempt to convince you or anyone else on what to do or not do when it comes to changing or adding or modifying or anything with a vehicle or motorcycle or anything else that may have any type of written warranty.

But I will say that I make my decisions based on previous experience thru my years and also on on my research such as the following.....

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/keeping-your-mods-warranty-intact.html

http://www.pt-tuning.com/policies/Magn-Moss-Act.html

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/aftvsfac.htm

http://www.fuelhoarder.com/page.php?5

http://www.ts-mag.com/t_stx.cfm?action=current_issue_pick&id=281

http://www.allaboutdiesels.com/index.php?view=warranty

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus01.shtm

http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm

Now...there might be some site that may dispute the information from the sites I've posted above. And to be honest I would like to see "the other side of this coin" so to speak. But until someone does the research and shows me that doing performance mods voids or alters or changes my warranty I'm going to take the path of going with what I know....and order & install cams and whatever other goodies I feel worth my money and time. And I feel pretty much 99.99% confident that I will not have any issues whatsoever with any future warranty claims. I guess this is one of those "I'll do what I wish and you do what you wish" type things.

Arkainzeye - 2009-01-06 1:16 PM im not arguing with you.. I just want to be clear. are you saying you can do whatever you like to your motorcycle in anyway that you see fit and No one can deny your warranty claim if the motorcycle failed/broke down? Because the Magnuson-moss Act will protect you? It makes me want to read my extended warranty to make sure i didnt sign (agree) to their terms and not knowing what their terms are? I mean with the extended warranty not the factory stock warranty. It makes me wonder why the pages for the warranty are so long if they really cant deny you for whatever you do to your motorcycle. If this is true, and i can do Anything i like then.. WOW let the mods flow~!

lol....I knew this post would turn a bit off-topic. But I guess this dialogue is helping site members.

The way I understand the Magnuson act is that I can change whatever I want on my Vision. But what I change is no longer under the OEM warranty, however the rest of the parts that I didn't change are still 100% under OEM warranty.

I mean if I change cams the rest of the engine parts are under warranty. Changing cams does not void the warranty on the crankshaft or pistons or transmission or any other parts. Now....if I change cams and somewhere in the future the cam bearings or journals have a problem then true...this would be an issue that would fall on my dollar to deal with. But if I change cams and the pistons or crankshaft or similar items have a problem then the OEM warranty is in effect and the dealer must either fix the problem or prove that the cams caused the problem.

The following examples aren't meant to be sarcastic by any measure. But......

Lets say that someone changes out headlamp bulbs with non-oem bulbs, like Silverstars. Would this void the warranty...on the alternator?

Lets say that someone changes the tires over to high performance tires. Would this void the warranty...on the wheel bearings?

Lets say that someone changes the speakers. Would this void the warranty...on the radio?

Now lets say that someone changes the cams. Would this void the warranty...on the engine?

Arkainzeye - 2009-01-06 7:41 PM you got some interesting points and i didnt take them as sarcastic at all. but here is one of the points i was talking about. this is directly from the website selling the cams!!! That gotta say something... Will doing "performance" engine work void my warranty? Good Question. Yes, By deciding to do performance work you are choosing to sacrifice your warranty coverage for harder acceleration. We believe an informed decision is most important and with our experience, we can advise you of the pros and cons of any modification you are considering. After all, the decision to do so is solely up to you.

While I highly respect Lloyd for his immense knowledge when it comes to performance and such I look at this and shake my head a bit at him. An unresearched basic answer to a somewhat vague question. And unfortunately he is kinda shooting himself in the foot when it comes to the "business side" of how the question could and should be answered. At least IMHO. But heck, he might read this post and see what I'm saying and hopefully put down the wrench and change his FAQ, or maybe get our dearest Jeff Martini (JAM) to do the job for him. Or if I find some time maybe I'll touch base with Lloyd, probably thru email, and ask him why he has such a statement in his FAQ area. And hopefully be able to show him possibly a better way to correctly answer this type of question.

Lets define "performance engine work" a bit. To me this means going the route of major engine work with combinations of things like bore kits, pistons, cranks, valves, cams and all of the other goodies. Doing such major work does bring the voiding of a warranty into question. I don't think just replacing cams falls under this umbrella.

But lets say someone installs a turbo or supercharger on a bone stock engine. Does this void the engine warranty? Well I think it more than likely gets into the area of probably yes. Because you are installing something that probably has the capabilities of exceeding the design specifications of what the engine can handle without some type of failure.

So....does installing cams fall under this "exceeding design specifications" area? I'm myself pretty much doubt that they do. If someone from a dealer or Victory Mo. Co. wants to debate this I'd love to. I'd like to hear them say that the Vision engine is not designed to handle this increase in h.p. or torque, beacuse basically they would be having to admit they designed an engine that was "barely good enough". And to be honest I'd probably sell my Vision right away because I don't want an engine thats barely good enough.

David,

Please tell us what you have done to your Vision (e.g. what cams, pistons, pipes, airbox, fuel controller, etc.) to get these numbers.

Congrats.

Tim

Dave,

What Victory map do you have installed, the base RECALL map for the Stage 1 RECALL map?

Thanks for the additional information.  It sounds like your updates turned out really well.

Sincerely,

Tim