Mind you, I had only been riding my GL1200 for two years after not riding for about 24 years. I test rode a Kingpin the week before my first test ride on the Vision. When I went for the test ride and looked at the Vision I will admit that I was afraid I would wreck the bike and be banned from riding by my wife.

When I sat on the Vision, it intimidated me that the dash and the front wheel was so far forward, though I liked the roominess in comparison to the GL1200. Frankly, though I was getting ready to say, "I can't do this, it is way too much bike for me." But the guy at the dealer was already pulling away and and like a little kid I took off being a little shaky. But the size disappeared immediately and this bike made me feel sure of what I was doing. The next thing I know we were on I-95 and I was trying to hold back to stay behind him. When we got off the interstate on the side highways, I learned quickly to let him get down the road some on his Vegas as I would want to pass him on take off. He seemed to be getting down on the Vegas but the Vision was taking little effort to keep up.

I wanted to keep on riding when it was over with and the GL1200 never felt the same. Even after getting the GL1500, I dispised that bike because of the floorboard set up and told the wife that I couldn't ride her on the 1500 as I wasn't sure of it with a rider, it was just too challenging and my legs weren't long enough for me to be surefooted with her on the bike. I didn't hesitate to get the Vision when she said go ahead (goat head). When I went to pick it up the Vision, I sat there as patient as I could while the dealer went down the check list. I did the yeah, yeah where do I sign. The rest is history.... Ride On! Ride Often!

Teach,

I usually agree with what you say and respect your degree of experience with other bikes but to say Victory had no intention of competing with Harley is really stretching it.  Victory had three direct competitors with the Vision; the Ultra, the Goldwing and the K1200LT.  These were the purpose built luxury touring bikes.  Victory spent a lot of time listening to all three groups of riders and picking their brains about what they did and didn't like about their bikes.  6 years and 20 million dollars later, we get the Vision. 

The Vision is not meant to be as good as the Ultra, Goldwing or LT, it is meant to be better.  If you sell motorcycles in the United States, you have just gone head to head with Harley first.  Everybody else is standing in line.  The Vision will only get better and become the world class bike we all want it to be because every one of us is pretty open minded and not afraid to tell it like it is and take chances.  That is exactly the mindset at Victory right now.  They are young, hungry and energetic about making the best bike.  All of the "fluff" is left for the marketing department and aftermarket companies to get onboard with.

I personally think that Victory (and Polaris) is a little shocked at how enthusiastic and intelligent Vision owners are.  As a group, we are racking up miles at a clip never seen by any other Victory model.  (I have to believe that the same 2,500 mile oil change interval that they have used on every other model has got to to be increased somehow on the Vision.  Lots of us can easily hit that in a week of vacation time.)  The tide is changing and this is only the opening shot.  Victory aimed at the Utra first.  One down, two to go.

Brand loyality is an amazing thing. I have my preference and even believe there is a difference even in similar items. Jeans as an example, Levi's or nothing, they feel and fit better even though the quality is about the same as the rest. So from that perspective it will never be about all the other stuff, it is a Harley and he has made a pact with himself to never break that pact. I guess the way I see is that as a buyer he keeps the competition healthy that makes a benefit for us all, because the standards are maintained high. The Vision is my fit and wouldn't care to ride anything else except to contrast how good I got it. I know a guy that hangs out at the Victory dealer and rides a big dog. He's riden the Vision but says it is not him. He rides long trips and tries to figure out how to make his dog more comfortable. The vision is affordable for him, but it is not him, the big dog is inspite of the inconveniences.

I have been riding bikes since I was 9 and I am now 53. I have ridden almost every cruiser and touring bike on the market as well as many of the sport touring and some sport bikes. I have had Harley’s, Honda’s, Kawasaki’s, BMW’s, Victory’s and others. I am not tied to any brand and will buy the best bike on the market.

My riding style has changed over the years to where I most enjoy doing long trips across this great country of ours but I also ride to work and around the city also. I was looking for the best touring bike that also would be fun to ride around town and to work and I found it in the Victory Vision.

The Vision has the Harley touring class bikes beat by a mile. For touring the most important things are comfort, handling, wind and weather protection, electronics, reliability and then storage.

I would prefer to own a Harley if they could build a good bike but they are too hung up with the past to look towards the future. I have two friends that have sold Harley’s for years and they have ridden my Vision and they were blown away. They said I wish Harley could build a bike as good as this. They also said I hope my prospects don’t test ride a Vision cause it would be all over if they did.

To say the Harley has better refinements than the Vision is laughable for the most part. The storage on the Harley is only slightly larger than the Vision and this does not begin to trump the Vision’s far superior comfort, handling, performance, wind and weather protection and electronics.

Harley started a project in 2002 to fix problems with their 28 year old touring frames to give the bike better handling. In 2009 they finally brought to market the modest changes that did help improve handling but is still not close to the Vision. Victory started the Vision project in 2002 and in the same amount of time it took Harley to make modest frame changes Victory developed a whole new world class touring bike from the ground up. This is amazing on the part of Victory’s leadership.

Harley needs to start innovating. There stock has fallen from $74.93 a share to $11.54 a share over the last two years.

And to the question if Victory will be in business you need to read the financials and 10K reports. Polaris is in better financial condition and has better ratios than Harley in many key areas. To look at a few based on the last reported quarter Polaris has a revenue per employee of $181,250 versus Harleys $157,253. Polaris’ return on average equity is 166.22% versus Harley’s 26.54% and Polaris’ return on average assets is 28.95% versus Harley’s 9.55%. Polaris’ net profit is 9.89% to Harley’s 10.85% but as Victory adds more accessories and appeal they gain the upper hand here as well. The analysts are much more bullish on Polaris than on Harley.

A friend of mine’s brother just retired from Harley after 20 years as a senior VP and he told me there is a lot of trouble at Harley. They have labor union issues, there dealer inventories are very high, there sales are down and all the analysts say they need to innovate. The board is not happy and you will probably see leadership changes over the next year. They have been resting on their laurels for too long and it is catching up with them just like it did with Chevy and Ford.

I poke around on Harley forums (plus BMW and Goldwing) and the long-time Harley owners are coming to the realization that that it's just not the same company they bought into years ago.  They are disappointed that they can't do all the maintenance on their bikes anymore and their dealerships have become Taj Mahals that are staffed by a bunch of yuppies who only care about how much they can take you for today.  Old-school relationships that were formed during Harley's lean years have been pushed aside for the bottom line. 

We have fun with the fact that Sonny Barger has a Vison but he is the poster child for things to come.  Guys who would never in a million years ride anything else are too old to be treated as second class citizens and Victory is determined to prove themselves as a legitimate American alternative.  Flag waving has always been the #1 card for Harley guys and Victory can give them what they want and need with a clear conscience.  The fact that the Vision runs toe-to-toe with the foreign bikes is gravy. 

I think Victory has timed it perfectly.

cjnoho - 2008-11-30 2:16 AM If you buy something with resale factor in mind rather than fun factor, you'll be disappointed every time. Whether Victory makes it or not. I'm proud to admit I was open minded enough to try something different. Before commiting to this new Vision my research on the motor and drivetrain showed me that Polaris was commited to quality. No ones perfect and they have had their problems, but problems have been few concidering their young age. In my area, dealers are far and few between. It bothered me at first. But, after a year of ownership, my problems with this bike have been few. If they dont make it, I can see this bike going for years without much more than normal maitenence.

Where are you getting the idea that Polaris – Victory might not make it or is in any way in trouble? What SEC filings, financials and analyst reports are you reading? I have studied their financials, read all the SEC filings and have read many of the analyst reports.

A sign of Polaris’s strength is their repurchase of 2,394,000 shares in the last 9 months and approval to repurchase of an additional 3,981,000 shares. They also paid a $.38 a share dividend to share holders on August 15 and also on November 17^th.

Yes the economic slowdown has affected the motorcycle cruiser and touring industry but it has hit Harley much harder than Victory. Harley’s motorcycle sales according to their third quarter 10-Q report were down 13. 7% while Victory’s were only down 2% according to their 10-Q report for the third quarter. Also Harley announced it would ship far fewer bikes in 08 as it had in 07 and it laid off 730 employees and temporarily shut down some of its plants.

Harley posted a 23% decrease in net income for the first 9 months of 08 compared with 07 and Polaris posted a 9% gain in net income for the same 9 month period over last year.

Based on these facts I would advise selling any Harley stock you may have and investing in Polaris and buying a Victory over a Harley.

Rebel - 2008-12-01 9:13 AM I don't think CJ's impying that Polaris or Victory is going to fail, Spock. I think what he is saying is that regardless of whether or not the company survives, he has a fun, quality motorcycle and is glad he bought it. Myself, I don't see Polaris failing any time soon, I'm just very frustrated at the rate at which Victory delears seem to be closing up shop.

Thanks for your view on his comments. The Vision is an awesome bike that is a lot of fun.

It is sad to see some Victory dealers close but it is more to do with poor management than anything to do with the brand. Good dealers are doing very well with the Victory line and especially the Vision. One of Victory's top priorities is to build a better network of dealership and in this process they are also weeding out some poor ones. Having a great dealer as I have makes Vision ownership much more enjoyable.

There are a lot of Harley dealers in trouble as well and several Harley dealers for sale right now.

It is funny how Victory does that. I see all kinds of Polaris places with not even a hint of a Victory except maybe consignment. I've seen a combo of Victory/Polaris but they are mostly Polaris and some other bike. Fortunetly we  have a pure Victory "dealer" here in Central Va. What I saw south of Houston at the Polaris dealer when I stopped to asked where the Vic dealer was, he tried to get me off of my Victory and get me on a GoldWing. Of course I just laughed. When I find the Victory dealer it was more of an afterthought though they had Victory as the banner, but they sold a sundry of other bikes, ATV's, buggies, Spyders, etc. It almost seemed that it bothered them I was asking for a Vision part, (flag for luggage rack) but when I asked how to get to the Victory dealer in Corpus Christi they just laughed and said that he sent business to them because he couldn't give people a good deal because he's overpriced. If I didn't have a Vision to ride I might have left there a little frustrated, but when I cranked back on the throttle I forgot what I even stopped for.

But the bottomline is, most if not all business will not let you know how they are really doing, most will say they are doing great right up until they lock the door for the last time. I've seen it more than once, twice or even three times, leaving folk high and dry and wondering what to do next.