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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I've been wishing I had the reverse option on my 08. We all know that Victory only lists it for the 09 models, and says it won't fit the 08. I've compared the two models side-by-side and can't see any difference externally in the area that the reverse motor would occupy. I've studied the installation instructions that dwhite28 so graciously provided to all of us. I've talked to my local tech, and he can't see any reason why the kit couldn't be installed on an 08, even though he knows it's not condoned by Victory. Does anyone know for sure any reason why the kit couldn't be installed on an 08? Any bracketry differences or requirements? Any wiring harness differences? Does Victory just want me to trade for a new bike? I would really like to have this option on my 08 and since winter is coming on, now would be a good time to order the kit and schedule the installation.
Ronnie |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | I was told that the reason was that they made a few minor adjustments to surrounding items so that the electric motor unit would fit in the
space. From what I understand the 08 cannot have these surrounding items moved since they have been changed for 09. I didnt go into
detail with the sales rep because I got the impression he was tired of answering the same question everytime he went from dealership to dealership. The other thing I learned which turned me off from it is that if you are expecting it to act like reverse on an auto, you wont be happy. The reverse apparently engages while the motorcycles engine is off. You dont simply give it gas and it backs up. The unit
"assists" you in pushing back. From what I was told its sort of a "click" and it backs up "click" and it backs up again etc etc etc.
Its to help YOU push it back. For 1200.00 Id rather continue to be mindful of where I park and spend the bucks on something better.
DWhite28 can possibly explain this better or correct whatever misinformation I may have gotten from our territory rep during the 09
model preview at my dealership. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | I got stuck in a hole when I parked in the grass on Sunday. Couldn't get enough foot traction to push it back. Only the second time in 10,000 miles I got stuck and the first time was in week one. My buddy's passenger jumped off and gave me a little push. All it cost me was a beer. I can buy alot of beer for $1200 |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | Len Rhymes has done MUCH research on retro-fitting reverse to an '08 Vision. Maybe I can get him to post all he has found out. |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | I will be installing a reverse kit on an 09 this coming Wednesday. We are going to take time and look at the difference between the 08 and 09 and see if it can reasonably be done. My only concern right now is if there has been a frame modification between 08 and 09. Everything else should be changeable. I will let you know how it turns out by the end of the week. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Thanks Dave. I'll be looking forward to your conclusions. I would be willing to install the kit on my 08 even if it meant that the "R" indicator on the readout wouldn't work, as long as the reverse unit itself worked. I would even consider doing the installation even if it meant that a small amount of adapting the wiring harness is required, or using a separate, additional, switch instead of the starter button.
I'm very familiar with how electric power reverse assist works. Yes, I know that it isn't like putting your car in reverse gear. Yes, I know that it is slow. It is meant to help back up out of bad situations, not for driving down the road backwards.
Sometimes, no one is around when you need a hand pushing the bike backwards. You'll just be setting there looking at your bike, sweating and panting, and wishing someone would come by with a cold beer.......................
My world isn't flat. My legs aren't long. My bike outweights me 5 to 1. My beer drinking buddy isn't always handy.
It's one of those things you never knew you needed, or dismissed as a silly idea, until you've had one.
Ronnie |
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Jacksonville Florida | When we visited the R&D center this question was posed the the Victory Engineer and this was his answer. The 09 wiring harness has 7 interlocks built into it for the reverse gear. So, to start with you would have to buy a complete harness. He said that the 09 bike was designed differently so the reverse motor could fit in the hole. He said it could probably be done but that it would be pretty costly. So, I'm working my legs at the gym three times a week instead of two. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | So all of us who bought 08's have to be careful where we park |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Thanks Len. I suspected that there probably were wiring harness differences, due to the fact that there is a reverse indicator function in the 09 readout, and to the fact that the kit utilizes the starter button for the reverse function. Those can be worked around as long as the thing will physically fit in the space and engage the drive sprocket. As long as it physically fits, it could be powered by means of a relay and momentary contact switch. The engagement clutch appears to be mechanically operated anyway. All you would have to do is make sure you had the transmission in neutral first. It wouldn't work EXACTLY like an 09 setup; it wouldn't bring up an "R" on the display, and it wouldn't use the starter button, unless you were to put a SPDT switch in line with it; but it would work. I wouldn't change the whole wiring harness. I would just mount the reverse motor assembly and power it by alternative means. I'm sure David will have a definitive answer in a couple of days.
Ronnie |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| For those of you wondering about this and also wondering about the safety interlocks, the system is probably very much like that on the '88 to '00 Honda GL1500 Goldwing. The safeties are: 1) Bike must be in neutral with the engine running (to prevent too much battery drain) and 2) Primary starter motor is cut off by a relay and reverse starter motor is activated by starter switch (the Goldwing had one motor that was shifted by a mechanical lever to engage reverse). The Goldwing also had a safety cutout for the sidestand that the Vision does not have (that's why we have the rubber pad on the sidestand). |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada | My Vision is rarly parked, so I don't need reverse!!!!! lol |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | Never had reverse, so I am still not sure what all the fuss is about. Having said that, I also never had music until the Vision, now I can't think of riding without tunes. Hmmm. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 238
SF Bay Area | If dabbing to park a Vision is the goal, it sounds like it would be less expensive to simply bag the suspension. Lower height = more leg power.
In practice, people seldom use reverse... my buddy has never used his on his 'Wing, even after 100k miles over 2 years. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | I TRY to always park my Vis where I can gently roll backwards out of the space to get going straight again BUT recently I HAD to park in gravel on a slight downward slope ( nowhere else to park ). When it came time to leave, I had a VERY difficult time pushing back out of it, so my buddy Rick helped push me back so I could straighten out. Reverse would have helped me in that particular situation.
That said, I'm looking forward to David's write-up in the near future so I can make a decision on whether to drop another $2k on my Vis. |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | I have not forgotten anyone. Finished the install of the reverse Wed. Will try to get something posted this weekend with photos. The short of it, an 08 can be done, but with major work and cost. Buy an 09 and your better off if you just got to have reverse. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | CoolHandLuke - 2008-11-18 8:36 AM I TRY to always park my Vis where I can gently roll backwards out of the space to get going straight again BUT recently I HAD to park in gravel on a slight downward slope ( nowhere else to park ). When it came time to leave, I had a VERY difficult time pushing back out of it, so my buddy Rick helped push me back so I could straighten out. Reverse would have helped me in that particular situation. That said, I'm looking forward to David's write-up in the near future so I can make a decision on whether to drop another $2k on my Vis. Same thing happened to me, no alternative other than nose in on a bad downward slope. I tried for about a minute and only managed about 12" of movement. I just couldn't get enough ooomph to get it going backwards. Nobody available to give me an assist. So I dismounted and grabbed the handlebars and pulled back and it was fairly easy. Rolled right back out of the stall. To be honest it kinda suprised me how easy it was. Something to keep in mind for future. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Hendersonville, TN | My local dealer installed reverse on my 09 today, he said it was much easier than he anticipated...so I ran over there during lunch so I could play with it...lot's of fun and will be functional for me. I felt like a young kid at Christmas in the service area backing up and then forward...over & over again...they were laughing at me!! I also had the Victory lowers installed along with the Cee Bailey windshield, I can't wait to get on the bike and ride... |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Didnt mean to post twice.
Edited by dwhite28 2008-11-23 10:26 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | In short i have attached a photo of what keeps the reverse from being installed on the 08. If you notice the section i circled, this tapped boss area does not exist on the 08 frame. The rear upper main frame could be replaced to allow the install of the reverse motor. Me and one other guy are trying to make time to review the electrical schematic to see where we can splice in and make a clean factory install. I hope to have more decisive information on the electrical part in about another week. If anyone would like to see more photos of the install, let me know and i will post or e-mail them to you.
Edited by dwhite28 2008-11-23 10:27 AM
(Motor_Mount copy.jpg)
Attachments
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 Motor_Mount copy.jpg (35KB - 7 downloads)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| David, any further progress on the electrical portion of this fitment? Looking at the picture above I believe that it would be possible to modify the actual frame to do the installation by tig welding some added aluminum to create the bosses, filing them flat at the correct height, and then drilling and tapping the holes for the bolts. Also, looking at the picture it does not appear if the side to side placement is too critical as it looks like that is simply a support frame that the reverse motor is held into with straps. That said, it really comes down to the electrical question, perhaps simply a replacement main wiring harness is all that would be needed along with a reflash of the ecm? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | if you cut and mod the frame is there any legal issues if or when the time comes and you want to trade or sell the bike? |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Arkainzeye - 2009-01-05 9:10 AM if you cut and mod the frame is there any legal issues if or when the time comes and you want to trade or sell the bike? Like anything else, if you modify a factory OEM designed frame, you and you alone or the person responsible for the modification is responsible. We are talking about a cast peice of aluminum. Not something you would normally want to alter. The amount of time involved in properly modifying the frame to mount the motor, you would probably be better off financially and safer purchasing the rear 2009 frame section and just replacing it. |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Travelin' Man - 2009-01-04 11:43 PM David, any further progress on the electrical portion of this fitment? Looking at the picture above I believe that it would be possible to modify the actual frame to do the installation by tig welding some added aluminum to create the bosses, filing them flat at the correct height, and then drilling and tapping the holes for the bolts. Also, looking at the picture it does not appear if the side to side placement is too critical as it looks like that is simply a support frame that the reverse motor is held into with straps. That said, it really comes down to the electrical question, perhaps simply a replacement main wiring harness is all that would be needed along with a reflash of the ecm? You actually dont have to do a harness replacement. The wiring that is included with the reverse kit can be spliced into a few key points, if i remember correctly, 3 places that you would need to splice in at. This would actually give you the safety features of the OEM install. You will have to purchase a new drive sprocket so you can attach the added sprocket. You may be able to machine the 2008 sprocket to accept the reverse gear, but i do not know the particulars required for this. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 146
| David, just to be clear on my end, you would need to replace the rear frame section-purchase a new drive sprocket and then splice into 3 places on the wiring harness? Will the '09 rear frame section attach to the front section on the '08 without any problems? What would you be looking at to accomplish this.....ballpark figure?? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 146
| Well, I made the mistake in the first place by NOT researching this issue further BEFORE I sold my 2003 TC. I had been lead to believe from "2" different dealers that reverse could be added to the '08. It didn't help matters when I looked at the Vic website and saw that the '08 models ARE included in the list under the "Vehicle Fit" tab for the reverse kit. So, I tried my best to get into an '09 model but they are just too much right now. Now.....after complaining so much the last couple weeks I feel obligated to tell yall that I am the NEW & PROUD owner of an '08 Vision Tour Premium "Super Steel Gray". I had been saving to purchase one ever since they were first delivered to the dealers. I actually received a FANTASTIC deal on this '08 so I really can't complain too much since this also included installation of CB/Intercom, Trunk Luggage Rack, Heel/Toe Shifter, Stage 1 Level 2 with Fluted Tip. I am betting I will be able to sell the '08 in a year/year and a half and hopefully get as good a deal as I did on this one. Ships out to me next Tuesday. No more complaining.......LET'S RIDE!!!!!!!
Gadget |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Gadget - 2009-01-08 10:41 PM
David, just to be clear on my end, you would need to replace the rear frame section-purchase a new drive sprocket and then splice into 3 places on the wiring harness? Will the '09 rear frame section attach to the front section on the '08 without any problems? What would you be looking at to accomplish this.....ballpark figure??
I'm revisiting this issue again because I recently got back from a 9 day trip that included Deals Gap, the Cherohala Skyway, and part of the Blue Ridge Parkway. I definitely need reverse on this thing. I only have a 27 inch inseam and have a metatarsal amputation of my right foot, so I can only really effectively push backwards with my left foot. All I can do with the right is balance the bike. I can't push with my right foot. Not enough reach. No, taller boots don't help. Actually, they hinder me. I don't think that lowering the bike would help very much, and I don't want to give up any cornering clearance anyway.
I could just trade for a newer bike, but I don't want to because this one is paid for. My wife's job was outsourced overseas and she hasn't been able to find another one. The company I worked for was (is) contracted to haul gas to Walmart, and Walmart recently forced them to take another 20% rate cut. They were already hauling much too cheaply. Drivers were making about $140 for 12 hours of work. Now the rate is $112 for 12 hours of work. You are expected to work 70 hours per week. There is no such thing as overtime pay in the gas hauling business. It's strictly commission work. Plus, Walmart is a giant pain in the neck to get along with. So, I changed jobs. Net result is that our household income is about half what it was a couple of years ago. No new bikes for me for awhile, but I sure would like to have reverse on my '08 Vision. Looking at the pictures that David put on here, I think I could make the kit work with the '08 frame if I can figure out the wiring. I'm tempted to try it.
Does anyone have any real information on how to splice the reverse kit's wiring into the '08 harness?
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| I was looking at the pic of the frame section. Where the 2 bosses are is it flat or does it curve inward? I was wondering if you could just install 2 Rivnuts and use a spacer? We started using Rivnuts at work and they hold up really well. We had them pass shock test when installed properly. I like the ribbed style best. Then the wiring would be up to you. Just throwing ideas out. Hard to say without really seeing the area. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| From my understanding of the situation if you could properly mount the reverse then the wiring is easy enough, you just wouldn't have the "R" show up on the gear indicator and if that would be real important to you then you could achieve that with replacing the main wiring harness on the bike and having the computer flashed with an update making it think it was an '09. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 146
| Well, seeing that this thread does indeed still have some life and agreeing with "rdbudd" that mine too is PAID FOR FREE AND CLEAR and that I have already had so many options added to it, I would rather modify my '08 than go into debt for an '09. With this said......ANYONE FIGURE OUT HOW TO REASONABLY DO THIS YET?????????
Gadget |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Gadget best I can tell you need the rear frame part # 5136288. Now whether you need anything else body wise that was changed to accomodate the reverse I don't know. I would think the reverse assy would come with the sprocket that bolts onto the drive pulley? Maybe not, lol.
I would think that lowering the Vision 1" would help if you couldn't install reverse for whatever reason. I've lowered several bikes throughout the years and it has always made backing much easier. I believe you'd not give up anything in clearance lowering, tough bike to drag parts on. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 17
| I feel you on that one. I can think of so many more beneficial ways to spend 2K, and enjoy my Vision to the fullest. You might want to put that towards a Bushtec trailer and hitch. Pack up the 1st Lady and take a trip. I'll have to warn you though. Once she realizes she can travel and shop with the trailer, you may not get her off the back. ;-) But it's great quality time and a two for, because you get to ride the bike where you go. |
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