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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
| Hi All,
I have an 09 Vison Tour that has stopped charging the battery - it's intermittent. Is good when cold, goes up to 14 volts, is normal, then drops below 10 volts, the low battery indicator lights up, and the check engine light goes on.
If anyone has seen this problem before, please let me know what you did to fix it.
Stator, Voltage Regulator, short, etc...?
Bike is down, any help is sincerely appreciated.
Thanks!
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | My first check would be the battery contacts. Remove the bolts and clean the battery terminals/cable terminals. Install star lock washers between the cables and the battery terminals. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| #1 check battery bolts with 10mm wrench. Your hand will lie to you.
#2 after full charge get battery load tested. Its at the end of its life if it orginal. Amazon has good prices on battery dealer will screw you.
#3 if battery checks out good then with a voltmeter start bike and check volts it should be around 14v.
If no 14v pull regulator plug clean and retest. Still bad then you need dealer | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | is this the Original battery from 7 years ago? | |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| its so urgent he doesn't have time to respond I guess | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
| Hi All, Thanks for the good replies. I also have a job that keeps me traveling, so, it takes a bit of time to get back on the forums, etc... I actually was working on this Vision during some of this time - at a customer's house, 700 miles from my home, living in a hotel, working on his driveway, soooo, a bit of pressure there.
Now on to the progress:
A. I'm a mechanic and very electronic/electric knowledgable. A/C and DC circuits.
B. It's very RARE that I'll take my bikes to the dealer for service, other than a Digital Wrench hookup, etc... My dealer and I have a very good relationship, and I trust them, but I have a good shop and usually don't need them for most wrenching I do, not to mention, most of my Visions are out of warranty and insurance salvage that I rebuild.
So, after determining the charging system was intermittent - failed after about 15 min. of riding, getting hot, battery reached fuller charge and became more resistant, the voltage dropped to the dreaded red 10 volt zone on the voltmeter, and the check engine light came on - battery was low enough to cause backfiring due to low fuel pump pressure, etc...
I used my factory service manual and did all the drain tests on the battery and system. No drains. I raised the Vision and pulled the connector between the recitfier/voltage regulator and the stator/alternator and found the stator connector was burnt, plastic connector cover melted, pins fried. The inside of the regulator connector had heat damage, too.
I pulled the regulator and the clutch side engine cover and found the rotor/flywheel (as Victory calls it) had a broken magnet, and the stator had scratches on the outer edges. This is the old style rotor with exposed magnets that comes stock with the 08 - 10 models. I decided to replace the system, all three components. I had 2013 versions of these components in my shop - the new style rotor has a metal ring covering the magnets to make it more bulletproof, along with other stuff, including a rear cover that's riveted on to prevent warping when using a standard puller to remove the difficult little bugger. Victory has a special tool - PV-43533 to remove the rotor properly and I highly recommend it. $55 including ground shipping to the dealer.
Now for the interesting stuff that leads me to ask another question:
The 2013 rotor doesn't fit on the 08-10 crankshaft. The taper on the conical crankshaft end is different. The rotor sticks out about an eighth of an inch, maybe 3mm for our wonderful EC friends, and doesn't allow for the cover to go back on the engine, stator hits it, etc... not a good situation. Also, the rotor doesn't seat on the crankshaft. So, one keeps looking for a proper solution to the problem.
I call my dealer, whom I've been working with for over 5 years - I buy a lot of Vision parts from them. I have rebuilt and customized 25 Visions now. (This is the first alternator/regulator/charging system problem I've had!) They look in the parts system and see that Polaris/Victory has an "accessory kit" for an alternator upgrade for 08-10 Visions, and it's only $265. This is a rotor and stator. Normally more than double that - so, looks like Polaris knew about this rotor magnet failure and has a "reasonably-priced" fix for it that is called an "accessory". It even has an accessory part number which isn't near me right now, but I've ordered it and will see if it is the proper solution for the problem.
So, instead of a warranty repair, or a recall, Polaris sells a parts upgrade "accessory kit" at basic "cost". I guess that's one way to solve the problem.
I had a hint that there were problems in the early model rotors, as I bought a theft recovery 08 Vision a couple years ago that had a missing rotor and stator and the starter motor and drive gears. I researched alternators then and saw that Polaris had changed the charging system in 2011 with higher-output/better components, including the rounded fin voltage regulator, and the sleeved rotor. I bought a used 2013 stator, rotor, and regulator to put into the 08 engine, but never got around to it - I would have discovered the problem then, but other projects came up and it was a parts bike, not rebuildable, so, I just kept taking parts off it, etc... Now I know there would have been a problem with that swap. Also, funny thing, whomever sold me that setup on ebay, sent a stator with BURNT CONNECTOR PINS!!! Pretty funny, eh? (I thought after 5+ years specializing in Vision rebuilds, I would learn of all the mods Victory has done, but here was one more... live and learn). Hopefully, you won't have this problem, but if your charging system dies on your older model Vision, this is probably the problem.
More later, probably mid-week when the parts arrive. I'll give you a complete wrap-up. Thanks to everyone who contributed! Let me hear your thoughts on all this drivel.
More Questions:
1. Has anyone used this charging system upgrade kit on an 08-10 Vision? Does the new rotor fit?
2. Round Finned Regulator goes out? I thought it's supposed to be the upgrade to the square finned regulator?
3. johnnyvision - you like your darkside - I have two of them in my shop. Looks like lots of Vision riders agree with you. My buddy is putting one on his 08 Vision with 55k miles on it. He's tired of changing rear m/c tires. What is your typical mileage with your Potenza tire? Does the squared-off car tire tread edge effect you in turns, etc...? Do you feel any handling differences, etc...? I'm in the Reno, NV area, it's an 09 Vision Tour Premium.
Have Fun and Keep it in the Wind! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | While I knew the 2011 charging system was upgraded, I honestly never knew in which ways it was upgrade. I just remember reading somewhere that you got full charge right off of idle now? Or something like that... it's been a few years.. I have to thank you for the informative details! | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
| Thanks for the info. I think the newer style regulator with the rounded fins is more efficient at low rpm's.
I found the Polaris/Victory/Vision part number for the Stator and Rotor Upgrade Kit = 2204532. It's supposed to be for 08 - 10 Visions.
I'll have it in a couple days and let you know if it fits properly on the 09 Vision I'm working on. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| you all most would never know there was a CT under you. Turns like normal you just don't lean as far into curves. You get about 25k out of one.
There was a guy here by the name of Rollin. He has a ton of iron butt patches. He's ridden his vision to Alaska 3 or 4 times using a car tire | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
| Good to know. Thanks! | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 8
VA Beach | Great info on the upgrade kit. Can someone add it to the PARTS section of this Forum?
JC | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 196
Asheville, NC | Thanks for your in depth write up. Much appreciated from an ancient electrician, part time bike mechanic. | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
| OK, got the 08 -10 rotor/stator upgrade kit. It's the same as the 2011 and later rotor/stator, just a bunch cheaper!
The rotor is the same late model part number 4012716 and the stator is a 4012715, also the late model part number. I made copius measurements and the rotors all fit on the crankshaft cone all the same. I finally measured the original rotor engine case to outer edge of rotor distance and the new rotor is actually 2 mm narrower, meaning more clearance with the stator and engine cover.
So, my mistake was to think there was a problem with the case/stator fit to the rotor, when it was probably a pilot pin or something else that was preventing me from getting the case closed after being on my knees for a couple days. The rotor just didn't look seated on the shaft after proper torque was applied, so, I stopped assembly, not wanting to create a certain disaster. I wanted to be sure, and that's why I ordered the new kit and chose to spend more time and money making sure things were correct and everyone is happy.
In the process, we all get to learn that the 08 -10 Stator/Rotor Upgrade Kit 2204532 for $265 is an excellent deal offered by Polaris if you need to replace your rotor and stator in any year Vision. The late model Voltage Regulator/Rectifier is part number 4012717 that completes the trio responsible for charging your battery and supplying power to your Vision while riding. That's the voltage regulator with the rounded edge fins.
So, it appears to me that the upgrade for the 08 - 10 is the same 2011 and up rotor and stator, just cheaper for the 08-10 bikes because of the original rotor open magnet failures. If something goes wrong with your 2011 or later, I'm pretty sure you can order the 08-10 upgrade kit and have the same rotor and stator for much less. The kit does not include a new voltage regulator. The new rotor looks so bulletproof that I predict it will last 100k miles or more, ergo, Victory isn't worried if a late model bike needs to change rotor and stator - it probably won't happen very often.
That should fix the issue. More in the morning after an extensive test ride.
Keep it in the Wind!
Edited by 08Tour 2016-01-27 8:36 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
| I got the 09 Vision all buttoned-up, gasket and o-rings sealed properly - no leaks! Did a 100 mile test ride - 14 - 14.5 Volts all the way, even at idle! I had all accessories on , Xenon Driving Light, headlamps, stereo, cruise, heated grips and seats and the voltage stayed over 14 the entire trip. Looks like the problem is fixed. Going for another test ride in the morning, then giving her back to her owner. | |
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09 Vision stops charging the battery - Urgent!