|
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | I know a lot of folks here have went with J&M speakers. And most are fairly happy with thier choice. But are they happy because they got rid of the cheap stock speakers? Or are they happy because the J&M speakers are the only option and/or the best option? But I was wondering if anyone has explored any other speaker options? There has to be other speakers out there that will work in the Vision. Are any of these other speakers better than the J&M speakers? I listen to my music turned up fairly loud, I want to make sure I purchase speakers than can handle this style. Not that I don't want J&M speakers. But I don't want to get the J&M speakers because they might be the only option that has been considered. Anyone have a stock speaker they can measure? Width & depth & mounting style. A picture of the front and back of a stock speaker would be great. If nobody has already explored any options I will take this info and go off on my little research journey and report back. I'm fairly confident that with my vast knowledge I can assure you that I will screw up somehow. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Just go with the J&M speakers, and spend your 'screw up' time riding instead. The J&M's work fine. You want concert-hall - go to a concert. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | David, topic has been here before. Use the Search function to find the previous threads. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Ok...I've done as suggested and searched the forum for posts regarding speakers. And unfortunately all I find are posts about J&M speakers. And a post or two from Mr. Pollolittle regarding using Polk units. And a teeny bit of info about the Hawg units. So basically speaker options have not really been discussed. Just discusion about how good the J&M speakers are...and it appears to be a "go with the herd" thinking. Experience has taught me that while sometimes its ok to go with the herd...sometimes its better to search out other pastures and perhaps create another herd. If I possibly missed a post about speaker options please link it. So back to the intent of my question....has anyone explored any other speaker options besides J&M? Pollolittle, what did you find with the Polk units? Does anyone have the dimensions of a stock speaker? On the tour models are the fronts the same as the rears? I assume they are. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | The 09 speakers from Victory are claimed to be an "upgrade" from the stock 08 ones. You might wait a bit and see if they actually are and if so, how much better. Perhaps someone with an 09 will get around to posting the manufacturer and model number or Vic part number and perhaps someone will be in a postion to offer a comparison of the 08 to the 09 speakers. I'm thinking that a really good speaker upgrade would include not only better speakers, but also a small additional amp to drive them. There is probably a member or two here with the expertise to elaborate on the subject, and even post a "HOW TO" for people like me who have little skill in the subject. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | I have enough knowledge about audio to somewhat grasp an idea as to what works and doesn't work. I'm hoping there might be an audio-guru lurking around here who might chime in. From what I can gather it appears that the stock system has enough power to run a decent set of speakers. However it would be sweet to have a small amp tucked somewhere to give the speakers the little extra oomph when so needed. But probably not a required option though. One issue I just though of is what is the imepedance of the stock speakers? I'm leaning towards 2ohms, doubt that its 8, could be 4?? Anyone? Its been said here that there isn't much room in the front housings. So options are going to be limited. However it sounds like there is some room in the trunk housings. So maybe a few options open up. Like perhaps a small two-way woofer? Do we have to have marine grade units? Think enough water would enter the speaker to cause issues?
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| The Polks are physically too deep and will not fit the fronts. They also require more power and play at a lower level with the stock stereo. www.hawg-wired.com offers a speaker set with a low-power-draw tripath digital amp, but the set is a bit spendy. Arlen Ness also sells this unit for the Vision through their catelog. Just found these, but have no experience with them. Biketronics have some small digital amps that might be modified for the Vision. They look small enough to fit under the seat and possibly under the fairing cover. http://www.biketronics.com/touring.html#bt1010
The J&M Speakers are more efficient than the stock speakers and play louder. Their cost is nominal. I think to get anything better, you need more amplification. On another note, Victory should have molded the fairing to house 6.5" round speakers and provided pre-amp outputs on the radio for clean aftermarket amplifier additions. The way the radio is built now, you need to use amplified speaker level outputs to add an amplifier which is a poor/noisy way to add an amplifier. HTH, Tim
Edited by TimS 2008-10-03 12:00 PM
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| The stock speakers are @ 4Ohms. I doubt the amps are stable enough to support 2Ohm speakers. If you want to risk frying the internal amps, you could try HogTunes.com or other 2Ohm 5.25" speakers, but the sensitivity level may still be too high to produce a louder volume. I tried the HogTunes 4Ohm speakers and they were not as efficient as the J&Ms.
I used to own Klipsch Chorus II's for the home. They were 101dB efficiency and you could probably drive them with a walkman. If there was any upsteam noise, it would come shining through the speakers while other nominal efficiency speakers would not reproduce the noise. Since then, I haven't found too many really efficient speakers (besides horns), especially in automotive audio. My home amp is stable down to 1Ohm loads, but strapping a 150lbs hunk of metal onto the Vision may not be the answer.
Tim
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | The Vision is the first bike I have owned with music, so I have little experience with all the bells and whistles that may be available to upgrade the sound system of the Vision.
To be honest, when I ride, my first priority is the ride; any music is just a bonus. Don't get me wrong, now that I have it I do enjoy it, but given all the wind and background noise, I am not convinced that spending huge amounts of money to upgrade the sound system is warranted, but that's just me. Having said that, I did install the J&M's, and I am really happy with them. The improvement is certainly noticeable, and for the price, I think it was a good decision.
Personally, if good sound is my priority, I'll stay home listen to the system in my living room. If riding is my priority (which it usually is), I will jump on my Vision, and enjoy bonus of a reasonably descent sound system.
For the money, the J&M speakers are hard to beat, and I am glad I installed them. As I have said in other forums, I am sure there are all kinds of things you can do to upgrade the sound system of the Vision. To some, that may be money well spent. For me, I just like riding. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 261
Sugar Land, TX (Outside of Houston) | I would not trade my J&M Speakers at all. 75 MPH down the highway and they sound like I am sitting still lietening. They were well worth the purchase. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | 20 years ago I had a 100W Pioneer amp on my 'Cycle Sound' unit - it was about the size of 3 bars of soap - end to end. Worked very well and was easy to hide/install. I would hope that there have been improvements since then. But I too find the J&M's work well - and don't feel the need for more power - although I am a 'power junkie' with 7 high end systems around my house including one 7.1 for my Home Theatre and one 5.1 for my computer room.
I noted when I replaced my Vision speakers that there is ample room below the windshield for a small amp - but decided it wasn't worth the effort. As I said earlier - just get on and RIDE! |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | 20 years ago I had a 100W Pioneer amp on my 'Cycle Sound' unit - it was about the size of 3 bars of soap - end to end. Worked very well and was easy to hide/install. I would hope that there have been improvements since then. But I too find the J&M's work well - and don't feel the need for more power - although I am a 'power junkie' with 7 high end systems around my house including one 7.1 for my Home Theatre and one 5.1 for my computer room.
I noted when I replaced my Vision speakers that there is ample room below the windshield for a small amp - but decided it wasn't worth the effort. As I said earlier - just get on and RIDE! |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Great...getting some good information !!!! Which beats the heck out of "search"  Looks like I might have to lean a bit more towards the J&M speakers. Still wondering if anyone has a stock speaker measurement. Which speaker is easier to remove...front? Or rear? Maybe if I find time I can simply remove one of my speakers and get some measurements and some of my other questions answered. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Rear speakers come out very easily - 5 minutes. The fronts took me 2 hours to replace - mirror bolts are a nightmare and for God's sake don't drop one - without a magnet and a spotlight. Good luck. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 261
Sugar Land, TX (Outside of Houston) | Agree on the front speakers. If you have smaller hands where you can easily replace the bolts, you are cherry. If not (like me) you thank God that the bolts only drop about 4 inches into the cowling well and not really far down.
Also the most scary part was removing the chrome-like bezel that surrounds the Speedo cluster. I was paranoid I was going to break it since I did not know where the push-in pins were located. But if you get a flat plastic putty knife and put it under the top edge and twist a little, you will get it started.
Tha back ones are extremely easy. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 79
Austin, Texas | The dealer here has an anniversary model on the showroom floor that apparently came with much better speakers than the '08's. They raved about the sound, although I've not heard it. I am definitely going to upgrade to either the J&M's or to the newer edition of the stock speakers. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 311
Atlanta Area | Here is the part number and retail price for the 09 "upgraded" speakers. You will have to spend more than double the cost of the J&Ms to get the new factory speakers:
SPKR-5.25",4OHM,POWDER (4012273) $104.99 |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | TimS wrote a good guide to the installation of both the front and rear speakers. Check out the link......
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1560&pos... |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 319
| I was at the dealer getting my recall reflash.......and looked over an 09. The speakers do sound alot better..& the improved gauges are now completley back lit..very bright vivid and more distinct..I like them....but no way I would spend $104 each for new vision speakers. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | I installed the J&M speakers and really like them and they do sound a lot better for the following reasons: The stock speakers on the Vision while they have an integrated tweeter are not efficient enough for the power of the amplifier. They are also a paper cone speaker that has been treated to make them water resistant but this type of speaker cone will not stand up to the weather over a the years. More importantly a paper cone speaker will start to break up causing distortion at high volumes because the cone is not rigid enough.
The J&M speakers are more efficient so they will play louder with the same output from the amp. While the J&M speakers do not have an integrated tweeter they still provide clean upper frequencies. The higher frequencies are hard to hear on any speaker on a bike due to the wind, noise and open air. The big advantage of the J&M speakers is they feature a very thin, hard, injection molded polycarbonate cone, titanium colored dust cover, super flexible rolled edge, high sensitivity voice coil and high flux strength Neodymium magnet structure. There is very little distortion at full volume. At 100 mph with the volume set to 13 using my iPod as the source it almost hurts my years.
I got to take a close look at the new 09 speakers today at my dealer. They had just stripped down an 09 Vision to custom paint all the body parts. The 09 speakers still have paper cones and the only difference is the tweeter is a little bigger. I have listened to them on another 09 bike and they don’t sound as good as the J&M in my opinion. While I am sure there are opportunities to improve on the J&M speakers I don’t think the time and expense would provide a worthwhile benefit but if someone finds something I am all ears. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | TimS - Since the Polk Speakers are physically too deep, is it not possible to remove material from behind the speaker to allow it to seat. On mine there is a large hole directly behind the speaker, just thinking it could be enlarged a bit to make room.
Lotzafun - I was looking into the polk and probably still will or some other speaker than the J & M, I'm not fond of the old school setup of that speaker, looking for a bit more modern speaker, with a wee bit more bass response. I was actually looking at the separates, and setting the tweeter on the outside of the bike speaker grill. Find a small amp and mount it where the xm and other units go next to the saddlebags. Should sound way better with a whole lot more punch to it.
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| pollolittle - 2008-10-05 7:46 AM TimS - Since the Polk Speakers are physically too deep, is it not possible to remove material from behind the speaker to allow it to seat. On mine there is a large hole directly behind the speaker, just thinking it could be enlarged a bit to make room. A couple of issues with that: 1) no longer sealed from the back (e.g. water tight, bass reflex, etc.). 2) The screw threads are in that housing. You would have to find another way to set the screws. 3) The Polks are still less efficient. Would need to add an amp to make up for the efficiency loss. HTH, Tim
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Look at the attached link. They have what you are looking for already set up to plug right in the Harness. They supply the system to Arlen Ness on his site. http://www.hawg-wired.com/ Under the "Systems" on the left hand side of the web page, this is the system designed for the Vision, DCS/SX/V.
Edited by dwhite28 2008-10-05 9:43 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | What about the rear speakers for the Hawg Wired system? |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| From the looks of it, it is a 2 channel amp (left and right).
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | You can call or e-mail the guys at Hawg Wired. They have been very helpful and quick to respond in the past. From what i understand, this is only a two channel amp with two speakers. So you insall this and replace the two front speakers. I am not sure, but you would probably have to get another system all together to replace the rear speakers. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 447
Northeastern Penna. | Did someone mention that they saw the 09 visions in the showroom and had improved gauges -completely backlit.Are you talking about the gauges for the radio or are all the buttons/switches,
even on the handlebars lit? |
|
| |
Stock speaker options?