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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| I stipped a 10mm bolt on the Lloydz timing wheel. I was backing it off to 3 degrees, I was using a torque wrench, it slipped before I was at 12lbs. I forgot to clean the oil from the hole before putting the bolt in, so it could be my fault.
Now the timing wheel is stuck, I need to put the stock one back on. It will not budge at all, I have pulled pushed, hit, yelled. It isn't moving. The 13mm bolt is out, the wheel is stuck.
Also if/when I do remove it I don't know if I should adjust my VFC settings. I have a performance front filter and the Lloydz top filter. It was sent to me set at G-3.5 Y-2 R-1 G/B-0 Y/B-5 R/B-3 considering the two filters and the ATS. My exhaust it stock.
Thanks for any help in advance. I don't know what to do! I'm partly tempted to run the ATS with one bolt if I never get it off, but I'm afraid that would be risky throwing it out of balance, plus it is supposed to have two. I'd really like to get the stock timing wheel back on and figure out what to do about the hole I stripped out.
The most frustrating part about this is I don't have any real Victory resources nearby, the dealer is about 70 miles away. I'm a little worried didn't need to back the wheel to three degrees, I think I just wasn't use to the extra noise from the motor after the upgrades. When I first installed the top filter and timing wheel I did get ping in the higher gears, after adding the VFC I didn't get the ping in higher gears, but I was concerned about the 'clickety clack' of the motor being so much louder under load, and I was trying to be safe by adjusting the timing wheel back....
Anyway, any help is much appreciated. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | I had previously removed my Lloydz timing wheel before I took my bike in to the dealer. It was indeed harder to remove the Lloydz timing wheel vs the stock wheel. I eventually got it to start to move by GENTLY prying all angles behind it.
If you have stripped one of the two bolt holes in the center of the Lloydz wheel, you could just add a locknut to each bolt behind the wheel. I was going to actually do that but locktite took care of needing to do that. In your case, locknuts are going to be needed. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| Thanks for the reply! I just got it, lots of prying. Is there enough clearance for lock nuts? Anyone have input on the VFC-III settings? |
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Tourer
Posts: 537
, FL United States | +1 on VFC setting. I know it depends on setup just wondering what others are set at. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | byufan - 2014-08-24 4:01 PM
Thanks for the reply! I just got it, lots of prying. Is there enough clearance for lock nuts? Anyone have input on the VFC-III settings?
I'm sure that there's enough clearance, the two bolts that hold the wheel together stick out farther than a locknut screwed down on them anyway. I already have mine back together; just eyeball what is behind the timing wheel on your bike, in relation to locknuts being affixed on the bolts behind it. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| willtill - 2014-08-24 2:57 PM
byufan - 2014-08-24 4:01 PM
Thanks for the reply! I just got it, lots of prying. Is there enough clearance for lock nuts? Anyone have input on the VFC-III settings?
I'm sure that there's enough clearance, the two bolts that hold the wheel together stick out farther than a locknut screwed down on them anyway. I already have mine back together; just eyeball what is behind the timing wheel on your bike, in relation to locknuts being affixed on the bolts behind it.
You must have received longer bolts than I did. Mine is screwed all the way in and only about two threads are sticking through the other side. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| Ok, so I did a test ride with the stock wheel back on. It is amazing how much more quickly this bike accelerates with the Lloydz wheel. I would say it makes as big of a difference for my bike as adding the top filter. Both are worthwhile upgrades.
Now for my next question/issue. The pinging I had originally was the occasional high pitched 'tink' noise in the higher gears under load (like a bb hitting your heat shield). I have heard some people describe their pinging as a can full of nuts, or shaking a paint can real fast. This is the noise I got after adding the VFC that made me think I needed to back the timing wheel off. (To me it is closer to the sound your valves make at idle, but really fast, like rolling your tongue fast) Now that I have it off, I think I probably just needed to adjust the fuel controller, not the wheel. I only get the noise under load at half throttle. Not at idle or at full throttle, just in the middle. When I get the noise I can go to full and it goes away, or let off and it goes away. I tried adding fuel on the Yellow setting and seemed to get better, but then I changed my settings back to what Dan at Lloydz recommended and it seemed to be unchanged from the improvement, suggesting maybe the bike needs to adjust.
Bottom line is I don't know the answer. I know I want the ATS back on for the power, but I also want to make sure the noise I'm hearing isn't doing damage to my motor. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | byufan - 2014-08-24 5:48 PM
willtill - 2014-08-24 2:57 PM
byufan - 2014-08-24 4:01 PM
Thanks for the reply! I just got it, lots of prying. Is there enough clearance for lock nuts? Anyone have input on the VFC-III settings?
I'm sure that there's enough clearance, the two bolts that hold the wheel together stick out farther than a locknut screwed down on them anyway. I already have mine back together; just eyeball what is behind the timing wheel on your bike, in relation to locknuts being affixed on the bolts behind it.
You must have received longer bolts than I did. Mine is screwed all the way in and only about two threads are sticking through the other side.
My bolts stick out in excess of 1/4" from the rear of the Lloydz flywheel. I think you will be OK but now it sounds like you don't even have enough thread available for a locknut(s) to gain purchase on.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| byufan
are you running 91 octane gas.
Have you unhooked the 02's like Lloydz says to do.
I didn't see where the VFC111 changes any timing I might be wrong.
Where do you live ? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| johnnyvision - 2014-08-24 5:27 PM
byufan
are you running 91 octane gas.
Have you unhooked the 02's like Lloydz says to do.
I didn't see where the VFC111 changes any timing I might be wrong.
Where do you live ?
I am running 91 octane and I live in Utah at 4500'. My Vision is an 08. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| willtill - 2014-08-24 5:25 PM
byufan - 2014-08-24 5:48 PM
willtill - 2014-08-24 2:57 PM
byufan - 2014-08-24 4:01 PM
Thanks for the reply! I just got it, lots of prying. Is there enough clearance for lock nuts? Anyone have input on the VFC-III settings?
I'm sure that there's enough clearance, the two bolts that hold the wheel together stick out farther than a locknut screwed down on them anyway. I already have mine back together; just eyeball what is behind the timing wheel on your bike, in relation to locknuts being affixed on the bolts behind it.
You must have received longer bolts than I did. Mine is screwed all the way in and only about two threads are sticking through the other side.
My bolts stick out in excess of 1/4" from the rear of the Lloydz flywheel. I think you will be OK but now it sounds like you don't even have enough thread available for a locknut(s) to gain purchase on....
Longer bolts would likely be available where I get the lock nuts. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | If you want to remove the ATS and restore the OEM wheel it should be easy. Try just wiggling that ATS while exerting a bit of pressure to remove it. The keyway is going to keep you from doing much else but won't keep you from wiggling it. If it refuses to play, try lightly tapping the wheel itself to encourage it to move even slightly. That should set you up to easily remove the wheel by hand. I am reluctant to advise a wheel puller although that would work. It really should not be needed. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| If you can't fit a nut on the back side and clear. Tap it out to the next size it will not hurt nothing if one bolt is a ten and the other is a what ever |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| Any advice about the engine noise in the middle of the throttle? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | byufan - 2014-08-26 10:31 PM
Any advice about the engine noise in the middle of the throttle?
Engine noise can mean a lot of things.
What exactly does it sound like?
Where is it predominately coming from?
Is it pinging, tinking, or tapping?
Is it the roar of the top filter intake?
Does it still do it when you reinstalled your OEM timing wheel?
Are you running 91 Octane (premium)
Edited by willtill 2014-08-27 7:36 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| willtill - 2014-08-27 6:22 AM
byufan - 2014-08-26 10:31 PM
Any advice about the engine noise in the middle of the throttle?
Engine noise can mean a lot of things.
What exactly does it sound like?
Where is it predominately coming from?
Is it pinging, tinking, or tapping?
Is it the roar of the top filter intake?
Does it still do it when you reinstalled your OEM timing wheel?
Are you running 91 Octane (premium)
I described it earlier in the thread, but I realize you probably didn't read the whole thing...
Now for my next question/issue. The pinging I had originally was the occasional high pitched 'tink' noise in the higher gears under load (like a bb hitting your heat shield). I have heard some people describe their pinging as a can full of nuts, or shaking a paint can real fast. This is the noise I got after adding the VFC that made me think I needed to back the timing wheel off. (To me it is closer to the sound your valves make at idle, but really fast, like rolling your tongue fast) Now that I have it off, I think I probably just needed to adjust the fuel controller, not the wheel. I only get the noise under load at half throttle. Not at idle or at full throttle, just in the middle. When I get the noise I can go to full and it goes away, or let off and it goes away. I tried adding fuel on the Yellow setting and seemed to get better, but then I changed my settings back to what Dan at Lloydz recommended and it seemed to be unchanged from the improvement, suggesting maybe the bike needs to adjust.
Bottom line is I don't know the answer. I know I want the ATS back on for the power, but I also want to make sure the noise I'm hearing isn't doing damage to my motor.
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | I did read what you previously posted. I was just asking additional questions for clarification, trying to help narrow down some possibilities....
I wonder if you have an exhaust leak between the headpipe and the cylinder exhaust port(s)? Check that.
High tinking noise could likely be detonation. Quite possibly your motor may not be eligible for the Lloydz timing wheel.
Edited by willtill 2014-08-27 10:20 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| The high tinking (Detonation) was resolved with the VFC. This noise is coming from the motor and it does still do it after the stock timing wheel was installed. It is only at half throttle. I am running 91 octane. The noise is a rattle, like I said earlier, similar to the valve tick at idle, but way faster, it happens in all gears at half throttle. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Call Lloydz and ask if the VFC add's timing. The PCV add's timing above 2500 rpm.
Your setting might be to lean. Remember the higher the speed the more fuel it needs |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Call Lloydz and ask if the VFC add's timing. The PCV add's timing above 2500 rpm.
Your setting might be to lean. Remember the higher the speed the more fuel it needs |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | byufan - 2014-08-27 7:01 PM
The high tinking (Detonation) was resolved with the VFC. This noise is coming from the motor and it does still do it after the stock timing wheel was installed. It is only at half throttle. I am running 91 octane. The noise is a rattle, like I said earlier, similar to the valve tick at idle, but way faster, it happens in all gears at half throttle.
I am sort of stumped at this point. I've been sitting here for awhile, trying to think what could be a transient rattle at mid throttle. Possibly a harmonic vibration at that engine speed that is rattling something on the engine assembly or surrounds....
.....I (we) would have to actually hear it. Unless someone else here on the forum has any other ideas what to check. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| I was able to tap the wheel again and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to torque the bolts with some thread lock before I install it.
As for the weird noise. I put the top plate back on and disconnected the VFC-III. Noise is gone. I won't have time to work on this for another couple days, but I plan to put the top filter back on and start with settings I have found for the VFC with top filter and stock exhaust and see what happens, if it goes well then I'll re-install the Lloydz wheel. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Like I said the wheel only works up to 2500 rpms. If your noise is higher up then that its not the wheel. The top filter being open you'll here 100% more noise.
Your VFC might have been set to lean and you were hearing pinging.
If you live where there is a good tuner like Rylan or Lloydz or Kevinx go see them or call them they are guys that like to help others |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| "Like I said the wheel only works up to 2500 rpms. " Johnnvision I hope you didn't mean what you wrote. The Timing wheel works from zero all the way to 5400 on a stock bike. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| Update--- I had some time to work on this today. I put the plate back on and disconnected the VFC, (Back to stock) sound was gone, bike was back to normal.
I took the top plate off and went for a ride, the sound of the motor was much louder, but barely heard the sound I'm concerned about. I connected the VFC and the sound was back. It sounds like a knock or a rattle in the motor at mid throttle. I left the center panel off so I could watch the VFC, it was at 2+ green lights or 2 yellow depending on speed. The sound didn't seem as bad, it could be normal for all I know, I just know that it doesn't make the sound when stock. I don't think it's a lean problem since I don't get it at stock, and the VFC is adding fuel, but then again, what do I know?
I plan on calling the dealer on Tuesday to see if they recommend a local tuner, or if they'll take a listen (I'm long since out of warranty). They would have to ride it since it doesn't make the noise in neutral, it has to be under load. I plan on waiting until I understand this noise before putting the ATS back on. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | johnnyvision - 2014-08-29 7:09 PM Like I said the wheel only works up to 2500 rpms. If your noise is higher up then that its not the wheel. The top filter being open you'll here 100% more noise. Your VFC might have been set to lean and you were hearing pinging. If you live where there is a good tuner like Rylan or Lloydz or Kevinx go see them or call them they are guys that like to help others Total BS.The timing wheel has no input for engine RPM. It does its thing from zero to infinity. A Power Commander cannot affect timing below 2500 RPM but that does not mean that the ATS stops working at that point. Think about it this way, because it is reality, a timing wheel works by telling your ECM that the crank is at a different position than where it really is. The ECM reacts to the position signal in its usual fashion which results in an advance or retard based on what it sees, as affected by the timing wheel setting. With my wheel set at +3 my ECM sees my engine about 3 degrees retarded from where it actually is and responds accordingly with a spark using that time as its signal. That results in a +3 degree spark compared to the OEM setting. It is purely mechanical and cannot do anything with respect to any RPM. It keeps right on lying to the ECM from idle to infinity. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Exactly and explained perfectly!
Marc |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 39
| Update: Took the bike into my dealer yesterday. The mechanic I trust was working and agreed to take it for a spin. He said that he heard what I described and that he doesn't think anything is wrong, just that there is a lot more noise that comes from the intake with the top filter. He said that they have installed several timing wheels and top filters and have had no problem with them.
I hope to get exhaust soon, and then hopefully next summer head out to the Vic shop for cams and a Dyno tune. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| "It does its thing from zero to infinity". Guess you didn't like my max rpm (5400) for a STOCK bike. But your's is a good discription also. I liked it.
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | Moved my ATS to +6 tonight, took it for a spin and whoa... I thought +4 was good, but +6 really woke it up! No pinging, but it is 60 degrees here right now and I didn't have much of a load on it. I'll keep an eye on it, but I like it. |
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HELP! Loydz timing system