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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | Anyone experiencing excessive belt noise?
I now have close to 14,000 miles on the bike and the belt noise is almost unbearable. The Victory dealer in SD told me that everyone that comes through has complained, but he indicated that mine was the most loud that he has heard. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Bob, yes its terrible. I started off with the squeek and chatter new to 500 miles. They adjusted the belt and that fixed it for 500-600 more miles. By the time I returned from a 5k trip it was so bad and making so much noise it drown out every other noise the bike makes. Adjusted a THIRD time which cured the problen for 500-600 more miles at which time I reported it to the dealer again. Rode with it making noise under load for the past couple thousand miles but it got real noisy again (chatter) the day before yesterday when I took the bike in for other stuff. They adjusted it AGAIN (number 4) but I expect that by next week when it needs to go back in for the headlite and other repairs it will need adjusted again. I'm at 10k miles and 4 adjustments but really it should have been adjusted every 5-600 miles which is absolutely absurd. My Harley would make noise when wet otherwise it didn't make any noise. It also NEVER needed any adjustment between tire changes (10-12k miles).
Here is the problem as I see it. The dealers KNOW the belt & pulley setup is bad on the vision. The belt is either too narrow or just a crappy design which means it stretches far to easy and REQUIRES constant adjustment. Now I'm sure someone is gonna say they have never had a belt issue. Ok great..... but the vast majority of folks are having issues. The dealers are not pressing this with Victory. It is so bad that victory does NOT sell just the belt anymore. In order to get the belt dealers must by the drive kit which includes both pulleys and the belt. Great for Victory at $600 but bad for us. I have a good mind to pull my drive off this winter and have a machine shop turn me a new front and rear pulley so I can install a HD belt, and I might just do that. It says a great deal about the parts when Victory has a low mileage replacement interval for the belt. However, as I stated the dealers need to press this issue with Victory. Pissed off customers aren't going to help sell bikes and both the dealers and Victory better catch on quick. A TOUR bike that requires the CONSTANT maintenance the Vision requires is NO tour bike, its a bar hopper. The Vision is a great machine, but it has too many minor annoyances that are not being addressed for it to last. Once the novelty wears off of folks buying something neat looking, this bike will not stick around, UNLESS Victory gets with the program and addresses these concerns. JMO
ps... I was talking to a friend who sells polaris but not Victory and I asked when he was going to begin selling Vic. His reply was NEVER. He said they just don't sell without the dealer taking a big hit on price (true for my area) and he doesn't like Victories attitude. He pointed out that Victory designed a couple bikes for a couple years and then dropped them, their reasons??? Crappy design and the NEW is much better. Who wants to be told their new bike they shelled out a bunch of cash on because Victory said it was "all that," and then read in a magazine the same manufacturer calling their bike a piece of crap because they came out with something NEW. He's got a point (simplified explanation). | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 55
Las Vegas, NV | As a totally new Vision owner (I don't even pick it up until next week!), is this a problem most of you are seeing? I'd like to know what I'm getting into... | |
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New user
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Ventura, Ca | hey all, i am a new user to this site. i have heard of this issue & have repaired it several times. i am a victory tech that was the service manager/tech at v-twins 101 before it closed. i am now in the prosses of opening my own shop in ventura county ca. what cured this problem in most of the bike was aligning the pulleys. on one bike i had to go as far as replacing the belt & pulley & performing the belt alignment at that time, but was able to cure the issue on all the bikes. get together with your locale dealer to get this procedure done. if the service guys do not know how to do it & there is a procedure to doing it correctly, have them get ahold of bob vonvett at tech services to give them the procedure. i hope this help all of you.
Jon Johnston
Octane Motorsports
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Northeast Pennsylvania | Teach wrote "He pointed out that Victory designed a couple bikes for a couple years and then dropped them, their reasons??? Crappy design and the NEW is much better. Who wants to be told their new bike they shelled out a bunch of cash on because Victory said it was "all that," and then read in a magazine the same manufacturer calling their bike a piece of crap because they came out with something NEW. He's got a point (simplified explanation)."
Teach I feel really bad for the pain you are going through with your Vision. And for the people that are thinking about buying one and are reading these threads, I think there should be a counter point to the so called "I love my Vision, but ..... threads Teach has been putting out for awhile. If I had read your gripes about Victory prior to to buying the Vision, I may have missed out on owning a great bike. For the people thinking about getting the bike, there are some really good threads here that bring up potential problems with the bike and solutions and stay away from constantly bashing the company. There are mechanics and dealers out there that will bend over backwards to fix anything, and some that only have excuses and blame it on the company. I luckily have not had that problem and feel bad for those that do. So, if I'm getting my belt, radio and cosemetic issues taken care of when I find time to actually stop riding this beautiful bike and take it in.. I don't get excuses.. I get good service and its the same company. I got no problem with people bringing issues and possible solutions up on these beautiful bikes.. but when you bash a company thats taking a chance on turning out new bikes each and every year and succeeding in a tough business, I don't get it. I've owned Victories since they started and for those people thinking about buying one..go ride one..talk to the dealer..ask them if they're fixing the few problems they're seeing with the Visions. If they come up with excuses, find another dealer.
I had belt noise at 2500 miles and had it fixed..haven't had it since and I'm at 7700 miles now.
Never have I heard about the "crappy design" you wrote in your thread. I have heard the Victory almost always has some bike of the year award in at least one magazine ever since they started.
I love my Vision but...... I love my Vision 
...And thank you Octane Jon for providing a possible solution to the problem.
Edited by victory2002 2008-08-22 7:08 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | To Victory 2002,
Thank you for the counter point and also thank you to Jon Johnston.
I have been prepping Visions since they came into the Hampton Roads area of VA back in Nov of 2007 and have yet to deal with the belt issue or even hear of it in this area, this is not to say it does not exist, the customer may have fixed it himself or it is so minor they have not bothered with it. I recently took possesion of my own Vision and have 2700 miles on it in the last 3 weeks. Never one issue with the belt or noise. I am glad Jon mentioned the belt/pulley alignment issue, but that is also covered in the service manual for the Vision. It is a crying shame that a few techs can't take a moment to look in the manual and double check something as simple as that. I have run chain driven bikes for years and that is the first thing to check for. With so few dealers across the US, it can make it hard for the few reputable dealers that have a good relationship with Victory. Yes Victory just like any other business can be diffucult to approach or a paiin in the A$$, but in the overall scheme of things, they are good on taking care of problems that are brought to their attention. I will keep riding my Vision till i have to replace it.
Just keep riding and stay on those dealers that give excuses and remember to report them directly to Victory instead of just venting. The root of the problem has to be attended to for it to be fixed. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | I had what i thought was belt squeal and after reading numerous posts here i was sure i did. But my tech called and said that after everything was aligned the sound was still there. He said we tried everything....then one of the other guys mentioned that on his Harley he found he had accumulated a lot of small rocks and sand in the front cover, so the tech took an air hose and blew it out, around the front pulley and lo and behold he said a sh$t load of rocks and sand came out. He then test rode it and no more noise. He then took the cover off and checked the pulley and the belt for damage and with finding none put it back together. So now every once in awhile i take my air hose and do the same thing, and everytime get some debris out. Oh i also live on a dirt road so this greatly contributes to the accumulation of dirt. So i guess if you have a squeal you might want to try and use an air hose first and see if it cures the problem.
mike v | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | I had a very good conversation with a service guy at a Victory shop in Montana while I was on my recent 5400 mile trip from CO to WA to BC to MT and home. We talked a bit about belt noise. Here was his explanation....
Victory KNOWS there is a problem, and is working on it. He said that the belts on Victories are "hard" in comparison ot the Harley belts, which contribute greatly to the problem. He also told me there is a VERY tight tolerance between the Victory belt width, and the pulley size, so if the belt is not PERFECTLY aligned, you will get belt noise. He suggested that I occasionally focus on cleaning the belt and pulley, especially after riding on any gravel/dirt roads, or where there is a lot of road construction debris, like when they rotomill the asphalt in prep for a new surface. He suggested I use a tooth brush to clean the pulley and toothed portion of the belt, which I personally think is a crock!
I had the dreaded belt noise problem on my Vision as well. Three visits to the dealer's service dept did not cure it. With help from pollolittle's write up on him adjusting his own belt, I adjusted mine, and the noise was gone. That was almost 6000 miles ago! Currently, I notice a slight noise when under acceleration when I first start out on the bike, not the constant ear splitting noise I once had. Because my rear tire is BALD, I'm awaiting delivery of a new rear tire, then I'll remove the rear wheel, take it to the dealer to have the tire installed on my wheel, then I'll reinstall the wheel myself, realign the wheel myself, and I'm pretty confident that I'll have no belt noise for a long time.
I like the one idea above about blowing out the dust/dirt/road grime from the belt & pulley, but it will be a cold day before you'll see me with a toothbrush, cleaning by belt & pulley!
For all of you that currently have belt noise, do one very simple check - get down on all fours behind the bike and look at how your belt CURRENTLY aligns on the rear pulley. If you cannot verify that the pulley is not against either the left or right edge (most likely) of the pulley, you have an alignment problem! If you have or have access to a motorcycle jack, align it yourself, as it is easier than you could possibly think! It will take about 30 minutes to complete, you only need a large crescent wrench capable of opening to 1-1/16", and a 1/2" wrench. Here are the steps:
1. Lift the bike so the rear wheel is off the ground
2. Place the trans in neutral
3. Loosen the 1-1/16" axle nut
4. Turn the right side ("passenger" side) rear axle adjuster 1/4 turn using a 1/2" wrench - move axle towards front of bike if belt is against right side of pulley, or move axle towards rear of bike if belt is against left side of pulley.
5. Turn the left side ("driver" side) rear axle adjuster 1/4 turn, using a 1/2" wrench - move axle towards rear of bike if belt is against right side of pulley, or move axle towards front of bike if belt is against left side of pulley.
6. Spin rear wheel by hand, turning wheel as if the motorcycle is going forwards at least 2-3 full rotations
7. Observe if drive belt is now centered on rear pulley - if so, skip to step 9.
8. If observation in step 7 shows drive belt is not centered on rear pulley, repeat steps 4, 5, 6, & 7 until belt is centered.
9. Carefully tighten the 1-1/16" axle nut to factory specs
10. Lower the bike off the motorcycle jack
11. Enjoy chirp-free riding!
My recommendation with the above is IF you repeat steps 4-7 more than about 4 or 5 times, you should recheck the belt tightness to see if it still is within spec. By turning one side of the axle one way, and the other side of the axle the other to help align the wheel and belt, its relative location on the bike does not change significantly, and should not cause the drive belt tightness to go out of spec. If you have to make a LARGE number of adjustment cycles to get the belt to track properly, it MAY affect the belt tightness spec.
I hope this helps...I know I was sure frustrated for some time when my belt was making so much noise, so I can surely sympathize. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Octane Motorsport, thanks for the info and I'll have my dealer look into that.
victory2002, Threads I've been putting out for a while? Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a Vision site dedicated to the vision and a place where all can come to bump idea's, fixes, issues, one off's and get some idea of what to do and where to go if they do encounter an issue? As for bashing the company? Well I need not even go down tha road... how many Harley dealers have closed up recently compared to Victory dealers? Ask yourself why...
Now I don't want folks to think the Vision is some crap MC that Victory threw together on a whim, but they should know that other folks are experiencing the same and perhaps as in this post someone provided some info that may be helpful. Lets face it unless you are moding your bike or returning from a cool trip, there aren't really any OTHER posts on the site.
My bike is functional for the most part and I believe that to be the case for most riders here, BUT that doesn't mean the bike is without bugs/issues/problems. In fact I would go so far as to say the Vision has far more bugs than ANY bike I have ever owned and I have owned more than 40 in some 40+ years of riding. This reality does not STOP the Vision from being a great ride. If it was JUST me having these issues then it might be a case of a one off poorly maintained bike, that is NOT the case. Read the post before yours from a guy who does deal with this as a tech. I have NO doubt that Victory will address the concerns expressed by owners over what I refer to as "bugs." These are not major issues, just annoying ones when forced to ride daily with them without a suitable resolution. Most of the bugs are BEYOND th dealerships control to address, for example the leg heat, poor radio reception, defective bar controls. Yes the dealer could bandaide the hand control by installing another bad part but its better to wait for the new one. Oil sending sensors that give false readings... dealers problem or Victory? I'd say the company since this has been an issue for Victory since it rolled the very first victory onto the showroom floors. The dealer can only replace the defective part.
I ride a lot and in all weather. I therefore tend to find the bugs rather quickly. Am I worked up? Nope not one little bit, bikes like cars have bugs its the nature of the beast. BUT I would like Victory to inform the dealers of whats in the works, projected release dates, etc...the bulletin process is not used effectively by Victory. I also don't want my dealer SWAPPING parts just to say they did something.
Bottom line is if WE as owners cannot discuss here, we have a bigger problem because some of the BEST fixes will be home grown.
Oh and I was simply relaying what was passed onto me by someone who already sells polaris but not Victory. I will have to say he was being HONEST since the first Victory dealer in my area got rid of them only 2 years after first picking up the franchise. The current dealer is in his 3rd or 4th year with the brand. Business is beginning to pick up slowly and more Vic's are seen on the roads here, but it is still a slow growing company for my area.
I'm not offended by your comments, so don't feel as though they were taken that way. It's good to have open discourse...... | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | Thanks for the input from everyone. I am currently in CO in the middle of a 6k trip and would like to get the problem resolved if possible before I get home in about a month.
Are you saying that there is an alignment solution for the Vision and do the dealers know about it?
I think there is a dealer in Colorado Springs, CO that I could get to. Maybe I will call and see if they can help.
The dealer in SD didn't have a clue and when he talked to Victory, they weren't nay help. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | visionbob -
There are numerous dealers in CO. Yes, Co Springs has a dealer, and some in the Denver/Ft Collins area as well. I would not recommend trying to get your belt chirping solved by the dealer in Thornton, CO (north side of Denver), as that is the one I dealt with, and did not have very good luck. Since you are on the road, it would be really difficult for you to adjust it yourself, without the aid of a motorcycle jack. The noise will not cause any damage to the belt nor the pulley, just drive your ears bonkers from the noise. Let me know if I can help further. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Northeast Pennsylvania | Visionbob I don't understand that the mechanic didn't understand about fixing the belt squeek. Maybe the next time you go in give them this website and have them search belt alignment under forums, or go into the owners manual.
Teach, sorry I hadn't had my coffee yet before my rant, it just seems that you come over as very negative and there are alot of Victorys that seem to not have as many problems, so the company must have spit out a few good ones.. I just don't think there's that big of a conspiracy, nor do I think that the issues brought up aren't able to be fixed thru the warranty. What was funny to me is that it seems when someone brings up a problem they may have, You seem to be next in line stating you have the same problem and proceed to bash Victory every chance you get. So what I'm trying to say is I'll stop commenting on your right to say anything you would like on this site. I was just hoping that you might realize that you where coming across a bit Bi#chy in your comments and that optimism and perserverance win out in the long run. Have a great day. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | The belt squeak issue is NOT rocket science, and SHOULD be able to be easily fixed through the warranty process, but I can tell you from personal experience that it does not always get resolved, or doesn't get resolved as easily as one would expect. I passed on my experience to the service dept head at the dealership I bought my bike from, and who I took it to numerous times to try to cure the belt noise issue. I cannot comment whether it has helped other Vision owners coming through that dealership since that time or not. I KNOW it is frustrating, as it frustrated me greatly, and the frustration became worse when I was able to fix the belt squeak problem myself in about 30 minutes of novice wrench time.
Visions are GREAT motorcycles, and I think only a very few on this forum would think or respond otherwise. I think the largest frustration for us all is the lack of communication between the mother company (Victory/Polaris) and the dealers that the owners of these bikes have to deal directly with. In many cases, we on this forum are better informed and equipped than the dealers are, and that is terribly sad. THIS is what really needs to be improved, but I'm not sure we as owners can do much about that. If corporate kept their dealers (and us) better informed about what they are aware of, status of fixes/upgrades/workarounds, I think we would all be a lot happier.
In addition to the belt squeak issue, there are many more "small" issues related to various electrical anomalies, chrome accessory availability/quality, and might I add transmission gear noise. If we all knew these specific issues were being worked, given an estimate of when a resolution could be expected, and what, if any, workaround could be employed in the interim, these "small" issues would easily fall well below the noise level.
There are a few folk who will never be satisfied, but hopefully we can properly communicate that we are xx% happy with our purchase, and our occasional rants are blowing off pent up frustration when we experience some of these "small" issues.
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | I do have to make a comment here. It is amazing that there are so many dealers that just bullshit you and tell you there is no communication. I know if i need to know something, i go to the dealer website and check for current bulletins and tech tips. If there is a specific item i need to know about, i can call directly and ask what is going on and when and if a bulletiin will be issued. The only problem as far as communication between the dealer and the company is the fact there are dealers to damn lazy to learn the product properly and get involved. I see every Victory Vision that is in the Chesapeake, Virginia Beach, Newport News and Sufflok area of Virginia. I have only had the following issues,
1. Faulty Stator, not charging. 30 min fix, very unusual.
2. Rattle from trunk area.
3. loosing oil after 2500 mile.
4. foot brake was soft.
Took care of each one the moment it was brough to our attention. Nothing to report to Victory since they were such isolated items and things that can happen from a production stand point.
Again, the customer can call Victory direct and make it clear they are unhappy, quit relying on some of these dealers that complain about communication between themselves and Victory, it is all a crock. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| victory2002, I took no offense bud. You nailed one thing though. You said when someone mentions some issue I jump on board, yes I do. I have rarely posted about any issues I have had except in response to others, because I do not want to be knit picking. I also haven't gone looking for the issues I have experienced on my vision, but I have had just about every thing that could be an issue become one. As I stated the bike is for all RIDING purposes very good, but it has bugs.
Space cwboy basically restated what I have, we need better communication channels between Victory and the dealers and owners. It can really suck having something that REALLY does bug you and have NO answer as to whether Victory is aware and/or working to correct it.
Space cwboy when you say alignment fixed your belt issue you are talking rear adjusters and belt tension?? If so thats a big negatory for me. Yes it cures the noise initially but it comes right back within 500 miles. Leave it and it progressively worsens. I'm thinking they will need to replace the entire drive on mine to cure this. I'm sure the worn bushings on the shock didn't help.
As to the small percentage that will never be happy? Well I would have to agree, some folks would gripe if you gold plated their butt. Hopefully between Victory and here the bugs can all be ironed out.
Ride safe all........ T | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | Sorry to hear about your belt issue Teach. I adjusted mine at around 5000-5500 miles on my odometer. Since then I have taken my long trip, ridden a LOT, and have 11300 on it now without touching any adjuster, using a toothbrush, blowing compressed air on it...nothing. I've ridden a few dirt and gravel roads on my trip, and currently I only have issue when the bike is stone cold, the temp is around 50 degrees outside, and then and only then do I hear a faint chirp under acceleration for the first mile or so, then it goes completely away. As I stated before, I'm changing out my rear tire next week, and as part of the reinstall, I'll go through the steps I posted above to ensure that the belt tracks in the center of the pulley before lowering the bike off the jack. I fully anticipate that it will be quiet for a long time and many miles. If you have personally looked at the centering of the belt on the rear pulley carefully, and can confirm that it is not against one side or the other of the pulley, then you have a different issue than I experienced. Before I adjusted mine, it hurt my ears while riding it made som uch noise. Even with my Stage1/Level1 mufflers, I could barely hear the exhaust note under hard acceleration over the loud chirping coming from the belt.
For you Teach, maybe you should take up "Octane Motorsports" suggestion to call Victory and contact Bob Vonvett at Tech Services to see if he can assist you in resolving your issue. Best of luck in getting your Vision to put a big grin back on your face. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | Thanks to everyone for your input. I am currently in Ft Collins and found a dealer in Longmont (Extreme Performance) that is going to look at the issue for me tomorrow (saturday) morning. He indicated that it would be no problem to resolve.
I will keep everyone posted.
For those that haven't looked at my web site (http://web.mac.com/carlan01), I am posting pictures and narratives of my travels that began with a trip to the AVR last week.
Thanks again. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois | This thread makes me wonder why I've never heard a peep, much less a chirp from the belt on my Vision.
I've ridden less than many that post here but I have 7K on it and haven't had the belt adjusted at all (unless Randy's did it sometime w/o telling me).
This makes me wonder why. I'm thinkin that its beause I had the rear pulley chromed (amoungst other stuff) before I rode it home the first time. I seems like chrome plating might be slicker than the original. Hmmmmmmm......
Dunno. could be so | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | Consider yourself lucky Willie - go buy a Powerball ticket!! | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Eden Prairie, MN | SrBiff - 2008-08-21 11:14 PM
As a totally new Vision owner (I don't even pick it up until next week!), is this a problem most of you are seeing? I'd like to know what I'm getting into...
Don't worry about it. Most people love their Victory. I have 40000 miles on my Kingpin and 14000 miles on my Vision, with no major problems. Nothing on either bike ever made me wish I bought another Harley or another Honda. The only thing I ever took my bike in to dealer for was to get the tires changed. Try riding a Harley for 40000 miles with out ever needing to go in for service! My Low Rider required major service every 8 to 10k. I sure don't miss that!
I use to think it was the relationship with the dealer, or how commited the dealer was to actually solving a problem or how competant they are. All of these things are factors. If you don't like you dealer find a new one, if that isn't possible ask us for help, but filter out the constructive stuff from the bitching.
I feel really sorry for guys that can't seem to get happy. I reall do! This site is where I'd hope we could find solutions and help each other out. But some guys only come on here to complain, trash their dealers or Victory or both. Frankly they are so good at bitching, it wouldn't surprise me if they are planted here just to make the rest of us feel bad about a good thing.
Think about it. Some one asks "have you heard a squeak" and asks if some knows why or how to fix it And then one of these guys jumps in freaking out about the whole morotcycle, the company and the whole human race.
You should be able hear what causes the noise, how to fix it and how to prevent it. Instead you get someone dumping a whole lot of irrelevant no factual garbage that doen't help anyone.
I just got back from the VRA in Spirit Lake. There were at least 50 to 100 vision riders there. I talked to a bunch of them. No one was unhappy about buying a Vision. Yeah we all talked about things that bugged us, like AM radio reception (I never listen to AM) and shared how we overcame some of them. We told the Victory engineers there about the things we wanted fixed. I pretty sure they were listening.
Cancel your order if you wish, but you'll miss out on the best bike you ever owned. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| rainmaker, Glad you bike is perfect, not so for many of us. I will say this... before I bought my Vision I frequented this site for MONTHS reading everything you guys posted about. Unfortunately guys didn't really speak up about the issues big or small and focused more on "this bikes cool" or "added this to my bike." I won't say it would have mattered much in my decision about buying the Vision, BUT it might have been nice to know what to expect, or what might become an issue. If thats bitching, guilty as charged.
My dealer is very committed to;1. getting my bike fixed 2. solving the issues .... However, I have been on the speaker when Victory told the dealer what to do to address TWO separate issues and I can assure YOU that you would not have been happy and I know I wasn't. So you'll have to excuse some of us who do not share your opinion of irrelevant non-factual garbage.
You said "We told the engineers there about the things we want fixed." Why are they NOT listening to the dealerships who have had these issues?? If you are going to toss indirect insults at last get your facts straight. Either folks are bitching without grounds, or they have a legit reason to groan a bit.
This I can say..... I didn't join the VRA, just as I never joined HOG. The reasons are for just what we see in postslike you just made, brand loyalty regardless of reality. A wise man told me a long time ago the best bike you will ever own is the one you just got rid of or the next one you will get, never the one you have.... think on it a bit...... Ride safe....... T
ps... I put 125k on two separate HD's with NO maintenance other than routine, 40k on the last one without issue..... 2 Goldwings both in excess of 120k and neither neded anything besides routine maintenance. So I guess sometimes we are lucky with brand and sometimes not. | |
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New user
Posts: 3
Ventura, Ca | the procedure for aligning the belt & pulleys is in the service manuel (as "dwhite28" stated), i got this information from tech services while the folks at tech services was writing the service manual. my other point for bringing the unit to the dealer is that it is a warranty issue and those of you that are still under warranty & most of you still should be can get this covered by warranty, victory will pay the dealers for this issue.
one of the way that victory goes about fixing any of your concerns is by having the dealer perform the diagnostics & repair, then following through with the warranty claim. if tech services at the factory find that there is a hign number of bikes out with the same problem they will get engineering involved to solve the concern. if they only get a few complaints of the same concern they chalk it up to manufacturing. it is important to have warranty issues taken care of at the dealer & the warranty claim filed to resolve problems.
the comunication between the factory & the dealers is great if your dealer knows how to use its resources.I feel that the communication is better then harley, i have worked with both types of dealers for several years(15).
I can not help but agree with "rainmaker" on the way this thread reads out half of this thread is stuff not related to the topic of the belt noise issue. i'm sorry if i stepped out of line with this response. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I too, have had very few issues with my Vision. I had iPod issues at first, and they were resolved by using a non-hard drive iPod, and a new cord to replace the faulty one. I do have a crack that may be a stress fracture on the upper fairing, but have not heard back from Victory on it as yet. That is about it. Cruise works, windshield works, everything works. I am WAY happy. Just reporting in, as today was a nice 300 miler with my Dad, and his 08 Goldwing. ------Metalguy | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Octane Motorsports - 2008-08-22 10:51 PM
the procedure for aligning the belt & pulleys is in the service manuel (as "dwhite28" stated), i got this information from tech services while the folks at tech services was writing the service manual. my other point for bringing the unit to the dealer is that it is a warranty issue and those of you that are still under warranty & most of you still should be can get this covered by warranty, victory will pay the dealers for this issue.
one of the way that victory goes about fixing any of your concerns is by having the dealer perform the diagnostics & repair, then following through with the warranty claim. if tech services at the factory find that there is a hign number of bikes out with the same problem they will get engineering involved to solve the concern. if they only get a few complaints of the same concern they chalk it up to manufacturing. it is important to have warranty issues taken care of at the dealer & the warranty claim filed to resolve problems.
the comunication between the factory & the dealers is great if your dealer knows how to use its resources.I feel that the communication is better then harley, i have worked with both types of dealers for several years(15).
I can not help but agree with "rainmaker" on the way this thread reads out half of this thread is stuff not related to the topic of the belt noise issue. i'm sorry if i stepped out of line with this response.
Hey Jon! are you open yet? Are you able to do warranty work? Since V twins closed I have had to go to Harbor city. Theyre OK but mor Yamaha oriented. I'm on my second trip for the gear indicator not registering correctly. (i know, has nothing to do with belt noise, but mine is OK). I NEED a good service dept!!! | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Eden Prairie, MN | Teach - 2008-08-22 11:20 PM
rainmaker, Glad you bike is perfect, not so for many of us. I will say this... before I bought my Vision I frequented this site for MONTHS reading everything you guys posted about. Unfortunately guys didn't really speak up about the issues big or small and focused more on "this bikes cool" or "added this to my bike." I won't say it would have mattered much in my decision about buying the Vision, BUT it might have been nice to know what to expect, or what might become an issue. If thats bitching, guilty as charged.
My dealer is very committed to;1. getting my bike fixed 2. solving the issues .... However, I have been on the speaker when Victory told the dealer what to do to address TWO separate issues and I can assure YOU that you would not have been happy and I know I wasn't. So you'll have to excuse some of us who do not share your opinion of irrelevant non-factual garbage.
You said "We told the engineers there about the things we want fixed." Why are they NOT listening to the dealerships who have had these issues?? If you are going to toss indirect insults at last get your facts straight. Either folks are bitching without grounds, or they have a legit reason to groan a bit.
This I can say..... I didn't join the VRA, just as I never joined HOG. The reasons are for just what we see in postslike you just made, brand loyalty regardless of reality. A wise man told me a long time ago the best bike you will ever own is the one you just got rid of or the next one you will get, never the one you have.... think on it a bit...... Ride safe....... T
ps... I put 125k on two separate HD's with NO maintenance other than routine, 40k on the last one without issue..... 2 Goldwings both in excess of 120k and neither neded anything besides routine maintenance. So I guess sometimes we are lucky with brand and sometimes not.
Teach, for the most part you talk about the issues, but I do take issue with the Post Script you added earlier. Maybe I shouldn't, all manufacturers make improvements and don't go back and try and correct old mistakes.
Anyway I wasn't trying to directly or indirectly insult you. There are some really negative people on this sight that I can't figure out what they are trying to prove.
Thanks for the reply, I believe in the exchange of opinions, opposing or not. I just don't think we need to be nasty about it. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 117
South of Houston Tx | When I first got my Vision back in June I read about this belt noise, seems like I read that most people were getting it somewhere around 2k. I actually fully expected to have to get it aligned at my 25k service but I now have 8700 on her and haven't heard a sound from the belt. I look at it like any other vehicle, all of them have problems, theres no such thing as "man made perfection". when I was a GM technician I can't count the times I told people "If man made it, it will break" in response to their query's about why their new vehicle is broken. The manufacturers all know this, thats why a dealership has a service department, they don't have them by choice, they do not make money in the the backend, and it's always been the unwanted stepchild of the business, so the manufacturer makes them have a service department if they want to sell their product. They do this because they know they are going to have issues with man made devices as complicated as a motor vehicle and they need to have competent professionals available to resolve these issues or else the frontend, where they do make money selling their products, is not going to make so much because people will buy where they can get service. Thats also why they give you a warranty so you can have these problems fixed without having to pay. the percentages of the vehicles of any make and model that do have a specific problem are very low, but with a network of dealers across the country the manufacturer can obtain and dissect data and in most cases their engineers can come up with a fix. If you have never had a problem with a vehicle before, and thats not all that unusual because like I said the percentages are low, then you may think that "this thing is piece of crap, my _____ never had these problems". Well I can assure you that maybe your _____ never had any but someone else's did. Furthermore I guess you could say that there are just way to many issues on your Vision to explain it away like this, but let me remind you that you bought a First Year Model and it always takes time to iron out all of the bugs, I personally have never bought a first year model before, but to me the Vision was to pretty not to buy it, so I will willingly put up with some issues. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Rainmaker, I agree we don't need to be nasty. Unfortunately for us "type" cannot reflect our attitudes, expressions, etc... I have said several times my bike has bugs, no biggy as all bikes do. Hell my service rep and I were laughing our butts off this morning over the windshield cracks (yep I missed the other three cracks, lol) because he just made a comment the other day about broken ws and warranty claims for his Yamaha Venture.
Folks get worked up and most times it isn't necessary...... but most often this occurs when communication breaks down. For example the belt issue we are talking about in this thread. Some folks had a simple one time alignment FIX the noise for them. Others have had an ongoing or routine trip to the dealer to have it readjusted. A fix would be preferable if you understand what I'm saying. I'm sure that my dealer will eventually end up replacing the pulleys and belts, probably just got a bad one that stretches too much. Same with the oil sending sensor that they already replaced but with one that is worse (a new one is on order). However based just on the replies from folks here the belt adjustment is an issue that Victory might be well served to address. If alignment is SO critical then perhaps a different configuration should be looked at by the engineers?
Hows that saying go "one hundred adda-boys are voided by one ah-crap."
If I was displeased with my Vision it would be GONE by now. I will NOT ride a problem or a bike I'm not comfortable with for any reason. What I reported earlier was a comment from a dealer friend as to why HE would not be carrying the line even though he sells polaris. Thats his take and the former Vic dealer basically told me the same thing. This may not be true, but it is a perception on the part of several dealership owners. What I would like to see as an owner is better communication with owners, whats in the works/pipeline, what concerns are being looked at etc...
Oh and I do apologize if I seem negative at times. As stated earlier it is hard to express with typed messages, but I can assure you I don't get mad, upset, or insulted on the internet (and most times real life, lol). Sometimes I summarize a conversation and the meanings can be unclear, feel free to ask for clarification anytime. I expect by 2010 the Vision will be the gold standard in custom touring bikes. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 332
Dale, Indiana | I have only heard a belt noise on really hot humid days after I take my bike of my air-conditioned garage.
It seems the cooled metal sweats a little until it warms up to the outside temperature (usually takes about 5 miles).
I also wash the underside of my bike every time I give her a bath. This includes the pulley and the belt. After the bike dries I give her a bit of belt dressing on the belt.
I will also add my dealer did an outstanding job aliening my bike.
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | I'm in the middle of my 5000 mile trip and have noticed a couple of different issues with the belt noise. It is most noticeable when taking off in the morning and in cool weather, not much of that in the Houston area. Also after running through rain it goes away for a few days. So I think when washing the bike, give the belt a good cleaning....... | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | I hope you guys and gals will forgive me for being obtuse, but isnt belt alignment directly related to proper wheel alignment?
If the belt is singing, then by logical extension, we must be wearing belts and tires prematurely and affecting the bikes directional stability because the singarm/subframe isnt in proper alignment with the engine pulley.
If the motorcycle needs re-alignment at very short intervals then there must be something other than the belt that is causing this; and if so, shouldnt we and the dealer consider this more of a safety issue than an nasty little annoyance?
Having witnessed a buddy lose a chain while passing a big rig in Virgina years ago (he survived because the wheel did not lock and he was able to pull to the right before he had Perterbilt tatooed across his shoulders) I admit to a certain heightened level of paranoia about final drives.
Help me out here if I'm missing something?
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
Cumming, GA | I told you that I would update you after my visit to the Victory Dealer here in Longmont, CO.
I would like to say that the service manager agreed to see me 1st thing this morning and the people at Extreme Performance were 1st Class.
They took my bike in as soon as the shop opened and had it ready to test ride in about 45 minutes. It turned out that the alignment was ok, but the belt tension was so loose that it had about 2" of play. I thought the shop in Rapid City adjusted it to specifications, but I guess not. Any how! The tension is now correct with about 1/2" of play and NO NOISE. The technician test rode it and let me test ride it to make sure that I was satisfied before they they gave it back to me.
I could detect no belt noise and rode it back to Ft Collins, about 30 miles, at about 70 - 90 mph without and noise.
Again, my thanks to the service staff at Longmont, CO. If you ever have a need when traveling through here, give them a call.
I love my Vision, my problems and all. I now have slightly less that 14k with about another 3-4k before I get home.
Thanks for all the input. Visionbob | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 11
Centerville , Utah | I dont believe its an alignment issue. I know of a couple of Visions that have belt noise. I think its belt tension. Its imparitive to keep proper tension on the belt. The belt is cooler in the AM. when the pulleys and belt heat up it goes away.
I know there is a issue just with the Visions,not any other model. The belts are much longer on the Vision. Anyone else experienced this?
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| bob, glad they got you hooked up.
kellyd. I'm not sure I understand what you are asking? There are several specialty bikes with long belts, this said I don't believe the Vision has a longer than normal belt (I could be wrong but don't think so). It is more exposed than on other bikes of this type that run belts.
It is alignment BUT tension affects the alignment. With proper tension the belt runs slightly inside of the outer rear pulley edge, but once it becomes loose it travels to the outside edge and rubs. Mine has bad shock bushings as well which I believe accounts for the additional need for adjustment.
I think the dealer went too tight the other day when adjusting. As I rode today and the temps increased, the noise produed by the belt (like a groannnn) could be heard very loudly. If I stopped and let everything cool it was good for about another 50 miles and then loud groan again.
Winter project but I'm going to look into a different belt/pulley setup if nothing new comes from Victory by then. Several customs like BigDog and Iron Horse may provide a sitable sub for the stock Vic stuff. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | You should see the drive belt on a BRP Spyder. That looks to be twice as long than the Victory belt.
Just for information, the Vision belt span length is only 50 mm longer than other Victory's. Another issue in the mix that can cloud things is the fact that driven pulleys for VICTORY not just the Vison, are a different material from 2008 on. If any one is paying close attention, they will notice that a 2008 belt tension is a bit looser than previous years. This is due to the expansion rate of the driven pulley. The only reason i now this is due to the Polaris school that takes place each year for the techs. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| dwhite, so what you are suggesting is that as an earlier poster suggested (had his pulley chromed before pickup) that coating the pulley (with say chrome) might in fact eliminate the noise issue????
Another question since you are the resident tech: Does the amount of air in the rear shock impact on the belt tension? Say you have it adjusted and have 25lbs in the shock and then load the bike for a trip and/or passenger so you raise pressure to 45lbs, what affect on the belt??? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | A coating on the pulley should have little to no effect on the noise. I hope no one thought I was suggesting coating a pulley or chroming it. That is purely an aesthetic choice of the owner. I have 14 years in the heavy equipment industry with the Railway and equipment used for maintaining track and roadbed. Much of my work has been with design and repair of OEM equipment and we used a lot cog belt and v-belt driven devices. Alignment and proper tension is of the utmost importance to maintain long life and low noise levels. This entails occasionally hitting the belt and pulley with a water hose or compressed air to free it of loose debris.
If the pulley is machined correctly, chroming should make no difference. I have seen chromed pulleys that had sever broaching marks where the teeth were cut for meshing with the belt. They did not make any noticeable noise.
Visions belt tension when using the deflection method is up to 20 mm (Almost 1 inch which is 25.4 mm) older Victory bikes have a deflection of 10 to 12 mm (1/2 inch). Not a lot of the dealerships use the sonic belt meter (Due to expense) which is a much more accurate method of adjusting belt tension. We just happen to have one at our shop because we carry the BRP Spyder. Brp only provides the sonic information for adjusting belt tension with no information on deflection. I have gotten to where I use the sonic meter on everything that comes in so I have a good feel for what really needs to be adjusted and what doesn't. Most of the victory manuals give +/- variance of 1Hz sometimes 2 Hz. I will go as far as allowing a 3Hz variance, but I will ask the customer if he has had any problems and also depending on the mileage of the bike if I do re adjust the belt.
Basically if you have no noise and as much as 1 inch of deflection with no problems of drive lash or slipping, leave it alone.
Air pressure of rear shock effecting the belt tension: Due to the relationship between the swing arm and the drive sprocket, there will be some minor effect on the tension. But as the manual notes, the belt tension should be checked with the bike in an upright position and with the rear wheel off the ground. This ensures the inspection is done in the same manner each time. The 20 mm allowance for deflection helps to compensate for the belt getting tighter as the bike is lowered back down to its normal state.
I know this is a bit long winded in type, would have taken a total of 5 minutes in person. I hope this helps some of you when looking over your bike. Noise from the belt will almost always be an alignment issue that causes the belt to track hard to one side of the pulley. The material from which the belt is made will have some effect along with how the teeth of the belt are cut to mesh with the drive and driven pulleys.
WHEW!!!!
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | I thought the book stated 25/32 inch, which is right at 1/2 inch, for deflection with 10 pounds of pressure. I'll look in my book and see again what it states. Good explanation, though. That answers a lot of questions. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 293
Arkansas | 25/32 would be about 3/4 in. Po | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| dwhite, then if I understand you correctly there should NEVER be an occasion for the belt to track to either edge of the rear pulley??
Maybe I should explain my thoughts here. If the front pulley is say 3" wide (roughly) and the rear approximately 1.5" wide, and the rear wheel is adjusted to align the front and rear pulley so the belt runs dead center in the rear pulley, the belt should never walk to the outside or inside, after all the alignment has not changed only tension, and since the teeth of the pulley and belt must align for proper operation, the belt should always track true (if the rear wheel is aligned so as to keep the rear pulley in line with the front). So this being the case why would tension become so critical? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Tension will cause the belt to track against its will. Dirt, water other sources of debris can cause the belt to shift from one side or the other. It has to be free to move within reason. They are built with tight tolerances, but there are still variations in them. It can be difficult to summarize when there are reams of paper devoted just to the art and science of running belts for either drive systems or even conveyor systems.
A belt when running forward can track just to the edge or close to center, but the moment you reverse direction, it can move hard to the other side. Many times i have had to take a belt or chain and square the wheel with the frame first and then see where the belt or chain wants to naturally align. Sometimes i have to take a full turn or two on the adjustment screws to keep the belt or chain from riding hard to one side. A few instances a belt will wallow or shift from side to side as it is running in the same direction, but the movment should only be minor and within the pulleys edges. The more tension on the belt, the more sensitive it will be to debris or wear of the teeth on the belt, thus causing it to track quickly, whereas a looser belt is more forgiving.
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Hmmm, well perhaps Victory should consider a different style belt and pulley? I'm just speaking generally here but if you are using a lobe style belt tooth and it is this prone to alignment issues compounded by tension issues then perhaps a square tooth system would be better? I mean I have ownd a number of belt driven HD's, ridden many in excess of 100k miles and never except when wet does a belt make any noise. In addition they require little in the way of maintenance and from my experience rarely need adjustment between tire change. So given this isn't an issue for HD, but is for Victory would it not make sense to follow that lead? Again I'm just comparing what works (based on experience) and what doesn't as obvious by the large number of folks experiencing this belt issue. Does that make sense? and if not why would the square be less prone to the variables? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | I would think one would look at how many bikes are actually out there with no problem versus the number of problems. We are but a small group of the total number of Vision owners out there. My bike has 3000 miles on it and has had nothing done to the belt. I get no noise that i can tell whether i am in the rain or dry. Belt technology is not new and has a very good foundation. Most everything has been designed or developed through the Gates company or similar manufacturer. As for HD, you had a good experience, but i also know of a few of my riding freinds over the years that had horrible trouble with their belt drives till it was properly taken care of by HD. I guess some people forget when HD first went to the belt, the belt teeth and driven pulley were more of a square style, this caused early belt failure among other issues. It took a couple of years for HD to finally get things changed. I know no one wants to hear it, but sometimes that is just the way it is. Sometimes there can be a tolerance between 4 or five parts that once they are all put together will be just enough to multilply into a true problem. If you have a product and it works great on 10,000 of them and you have 1,000 come back with a serious problem, you dont change the entire line up. You find the issue with the isolated cases and correct them. Just like with any other ISO 9000 process. You correct the issue and document it so it will hopefully not happen again. There are some V92C's from around the year 2000 that had to have the drive sprocket changed and the entire rear drive sprocket was removed, a rasied lip on the actual wheel around the bearing had to be ground off and a cushion drive installed. If there is an actual manufacturing problem, i have no doubt that Victory will correct it. The best thing as usual is for the people to make sure this information is being reported properly to Victory so they can decide if it is an assembly problem or a fabrication problem. By the way teach, i have to say i would like to run into you on a ride or rally somewhere and buy you a beer or soda. This discourse has helped remind me why i enjoy being a tech and also make me dust off some brain cells from my past experiences. At least when the day comes and someone brings in their Victory with a belt issue, i will be more than ready to attack the problem quickly and efficiently. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 55
Las Vegas, NV | Rainmaker: As for this comment from you "Cancel your order if you wish, but you'll miss out on the best bike you ever owned."
Don't worry about that happening. I spent over a year deciding on my next bike. It was between the Triumph Rocket Touring and the Vision. When riding them both, back to back, the decision to go with the Vision was easy (although the torque of the Rocket was intoxicating).
Right now, the Ness dealer down here is putting on all of my toys. I get to pick her up next week. Can't wait. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | jama - I appreciate the reality check, didn't have my handy watch calculator handy to figure that out (anybody else remember those).
Just so you know I can do very small amounts of math - 16/32, should be 1/2, still no calculator, but I think I got it right this time. Do I get another prize, a sticker, bubble gum, bodacioustwentysomethinghottie?
Straight from the book:
Belt Deflection
Deflection @ 10 lbs. force Street or Tour - 20.0mm +/- .5mm or 25/32 +/- 1/64"
that seems pretty tight tolerances. I don't think I calibrated my hand to be +/- 2 lbs of force and 1/64, owweeee. I guess I got fortunate.
As for this exchange of question and answer I have read and learned. Dwhite28, have another Dr. Pepper, you deserve it for entertaining me and the little school lesson, did you get the last one? As for a tech, not bad grammar, English must be your first language, Victory motors must be your Second.
ISO 9000, OHHHHH, big technical terms, kudos to ya, you sure your in the right job, too helpful and knowledgeable to be just a tech. Oh, you must be Senior Tech.
I do have a question, though. When I was re-aligning my belt, the directions are:
pg. 2.21
step 2. Turn axle adjuster nut on each side of swingarm to achieve: Belt tracking to inside of wheel sprocket flange during forward wheel rotation.
step 3. Rotate wheel backwards. If belt begins to move axially off inside flange of sprocket (toward the outside edge of sprocket), proceed to step 5.
Question - Never could get it to do this, if I understand correctly, when looking at it from the rear, looking forward behind the tire, the belt should be on the side of the pulley closest to the tire. When rolling forward. Then reverse rotation on tire and belt should track further away from tire. Never could figure that out. My belt was on the outside edge, farther away from tire, while rolling forward. (FYI, it is hard to keep up with bike on all fours and watch the belt while the bike is moving to get the tire to roll.) I managed to adjust it to move off of that edge toward the tire and once it started it went all the way over. Managed to get it stay just a little off of the outer edge of the pulley. But reverse direction and no movement. I have no more belt squeak, so it must be right, it just doesn't do what the book describes and there weren't pretty pictures or movies for me to watch. Dwhite28, have one more, just to wet the whistle. Thanks for the info.
Teach, not sure what happened but your ability to rearrange english words and choice of different style of typing in the last couple of posts, don't seem to be as b!t@hy. Applaud, golf clap, round of applause, continue till satisfied. I had asked you previously if you tried aligning your belt on another post, no update, so did you? Multiple others have posted the same info for you and still no update, still wondering? Many have been given the belt too loose, belt to tight, pulleys must be bad, scenario and the absolute final fix that I have heard so far has been alignment, wonder why more don't look at that. Final note, for you, good questions to keep the Dwhite28 on his school lesson. Teach, don't know if you drink a cold Dr. Pepper, but if so, get you one too. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Pollolittle, Thank for the comments. Over the years I have been a Laborer, lead man in an assembly environment, Field Service Tech/engineer, R & D Service, Project Manager, Service Manager and Sales Engineer. 14 years with www.kershawusa.com and 7 years with www.plasseramerican.com All Railroad related OEM manufacturers of heavy equipment. That is where I developed and acquired my ISO training along with project management. I have been tied up with writing technical manuals and operations manuals as well as putting together contracts for sales and leases of such equipment. I finally had enough and chucked my past life and went back to my hobby and passion. I turn wrenches on power sports craft. My big love is the Victory line. I do work on all Polaris and the BRP product line as well. As for watching the belt track, you did a great job. Sometimes that is all you can get the belt to do. Just barely get it to move off of the inside edge. You may want to invest in a good set of knee pads and gloves to keep up with the bike when it is rolling to watch that belt next time.  I have to be off to work now, time to hope on my Vision and run off to the Victory shop and see what comes in today. Yall be safe now, ya hear. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | I'm looking for knee pads and gloves with wheels in them, they do it in shoes. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Northeast Pennsylvania | I seriously dreamt my belt was squeeking last night. What a nightmare..rode this morning ..no problems. Took the trunk off yesterday.. and at the risk of sounding freaky... I like it both ways..like havin' 2 different girlfriends. LOL | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | dwhite28 - 2008-08-23 11:43 PM
You should see the drive belt on a BRP Spyder. That looks to be twice as long than the Victory belt.
Just for information, the Vision belt span length is only 50 mm longer than other Victory's. Another issue in the mix that can cloud things is the fact that driven pulleys for VICTORY not just the Vison, are a different material from 2008 on. If any one is paying close attention, they will notice that a 2008 belt tension is a bit looser than previous years. This is due to the expansion rate of the driven pulley. The only reason i now this is due to the Polaris school that takes place each year for the techs.
That interesting. As i do not have the belt noise (yet) i did notice my belt is alot more loose than my other belt driven motorcycle i have owned. I thought to myself yesterday "is this normal"? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Victory2002,
After reading this thread concerning belt noise, i am surprised you didn't have a nightmare of being chased by your drive belt. lol | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Po, yep I did have the belt aligned and I checked it myself 5 times now. Still only goes 500-1000 miles before the chatter begins again and the process needs repeated. I'm thinking I'll be forcing the dealer to install a new belt and pulleys when it goes in for the other stuff next week. With the miles I ride I can't be adjusting weekly. On a side note hehe figured I'd change a verb or two and try to sound a bit more friendly, lol..... Oh and Coffee works for me....
dwight, What you say makes sense except I'd point out that it isn't a "few" folks having belt issues but closer to half the folks that are. Even if we said a 1/4 or a third were having issues it should be more than enough fo Victory to be addressing an obvious issue. Something is wrong with the setup and I can't quite putmy finger on it yet but I will or I'll get rid of the Vision. | |
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New user
Posts: 4
| I'm curious about what type of torque wrench (if any) that people are using to re-tighten the axle nut. I have the S1/L1 exhaust on and can't get a torque wrench with socket on the nut. With the bike raised up (wheels off the ground) even an extension won't fit under the exhaust. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | If you are truly concerned about applying 65 foot pounds of torque to the rear axle nut, you may need to get a crows foot wrench to put on the end of your torque wrench. If you take a moment or two and set your torque wrench for the 65 ft-lbs and apply that amount of pressure to a fastener of no consequence, you will realize that 65 foot lbs is not difficult to pull. You can tighten the axle nut safely without a tourque wrench with a little practice, (other words, calibrate your elbow) you may hit the 65 or pull as much as 75 with a little practice. With the axle being of a hardend steel considering the diameter, it can take a whole lot more than the 65 foot lbs with out damage. When tightening the nut, you are only pulling the swing arm together with the left and right spacer against the left and right inner bearing race and then against the pipe spacer between the left and right inner bearing race. The 65 foot lbs is a minimum that helps ensure its tight enough to keep the wheel rolling on the bearing races. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 377
O'Neill, Nebraska | rainmaker - 2008-08-22 9:51 PM
SrBiff - 2008-08-21 11:14 PM
As a totally new Vision owner (I don't even pick it up until next week!), is this a problem most of you are seeing? I'd like to know what I'm getting into...
I just got back from the VRA in Spirit Lake. There were at least 50 to 100 vision riders there. I talked to a bunch of them. No one was unhappy about buying a Vision. Yeah we all talked about things that bugged us, like AM radio reception (I never listen to AM) and shared how we overcame some of them. We told the Victory engineers there about the things we wanted fixed. I pretty sure they were listening.
I've had my Vision for 1 month and absolutely love it. Is it perfect....well to me it is. Does it have alignment problems on the left bag....yep!
Do I regret not buying a GW or UC (I rode both). Certainly not!
As for this quote (above)....my only question is were you able to find one of those rascally engineers in Iowa? I'd love to hear their take on the radio and the radio controls.
Stay safe! | |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Teach, I was thinking today, (i am ok, didnt hurt to much) with the belt issues you are having, i believe you are right in asking for a new belt along with both pulleys. If either of the pulleys were machined just a little bit off, they would wear crooked on the belt. So you adjust it to compensate for the poorly made sprocket and then the belt wears more or stretches in that particular plane till it has to move over again and of course the noise starts all over again. Have you noticed any unusual wear on the sides of the belt? and with a light and good magnifying glass, can you tell if there are any possible stress marks cracks in the the belt. These would hopefuly show up on the outer layer of the belt as well as the inside. Just a thought that crossed my mind. If no one is looking at the belt or teeth of the sprocket close enough and just trying to adjust the belt with out truly investigating the cause, this would explain the constant adjusting. You will also want to look for uneven wear on the teeth of the belt, this means from the left side to the right side, not just from tooth to tooth.
Edited by dwhite28 2008-08-26 10:52 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 340
Regina Saskatchewan Canada | I have a squealing belt but most of the time it was just the first few blocks on a cool morning, nothing I worried about to much. On my vacation it seems to be getting worse. One day it squealed most of the morning mostly under power and every time I stopped for gas or a break I could smell burnt rubber. My front tire is wearing uneven, instead of wearing flat in the centre it is wearing more on the right side. My thoughts are that the rear wheel is slightly out of alinement which is causing the belt to squeal and the front tire to wear uneven.
I had it in this morning to the dealer to check a number of things out including the belt tension and alinement. They tightened the belt but can't figure out why the front tire is wearing uneven. The mechanic thinks it is too much or to little oil in one of the front fork shocks.
Oh surprise surprise, after I left the dealership, the belt is still squealing. The mechanic also said that when he rolled the rear wheel the belt would move from the right side of the rear pulley, to the centre and than to the left and back again, that just doesn't sound right to me.
I feel that there is something not right with the rear end of the bike which causes the squealing belt and uneven tire wear. Does anyone think the same thing as I do or am I out to lunch?
Edited by Crawford 2008-08-26 11:44 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | The mechanic at your dealer THINKS there is too little oil in the forks - did he check? If not, Why not?
Severely uneven tire wear is never a good sign. Something is wrong, somewhere. Forks, stearing head bearings, triple clamp alignment, wheel alignment, swing arm bearings, tire pressures and load distribution all effect tire wear, handling and safety.
Find the problem, replacing the tire which I assume that you are doing , is only masking the real issue.
I would suggest that they need to figure out what.
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | The belt moving from one side to the other points to something that is not stable (maybe the mechanic?). I personally would limit my riding until the root cause of this is determined and corrected, as this also sounds like a potential safety issue to me. Uneven front tire wear sounds like yet a second safety issue. If your dealer is unable or unwilling to spend the necessary time to troubleshoot and correct these problems in short order, I suggest you take it to another shop for a second opinion. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 340
Regina Saskatchewan Canada | Tarpits99 - 2008-08-27 12:56 AM
The mechanic at your dealer THINKS there is too little oil in the forks - did he check? If not, Why not?
Severely uneven tire wear is never a good sign. Something is wrong, somewhere. Forks, stearing head bearings, triple clamp alignment, wheel alignment, swing arm bearings, tire pressures and load distribution all effect tire wear, handling and safety.
Find the problem, replacing the tire which I assume that you are doing , is only masking the real issue.
I would suggest that they need to figure out what.
Tire pressures have always been in the proper range. As far as load balance for the most part it has been one up riding with no luggage. One 3600km(2250mi) trip with two up and the luggage seemed to even from side to side. I don't believe either of those two are the cause.
I firmly believe it is the alignment of the rear wheel that is causing the belt squeal and uneven front tire wear.. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Crawford my front tire has a band around 1.5-2.5 inches wide and is raised a good 1/8 of an inch from the rest of the tire. This is a COMMON tire wear pattern. The tire manufacturers use a stiffer compound in the middle of the tire to cut down on flat wear in the front. The result is the sticky sidewall compound wears quicker producing a ridge. Road crown and road surface compounds effect the tire wear pattern in this manner as well. I've had this same issue with Bridgestone tires which could be corrected by running additional tire pressure in the front tire. That hasn't seemed to work for the E3's.
Now the belt moving side to side? Ok you have some movement where you shouldn't have movement. Either the pulley is warped, wheel bearings bad or the swingarm is moving side to side for the belt to worm across the rear pulley. I'd have the dealer check the swingarm pivot, rear wheel bearings and shock mount bushings asap. If nothing is found there a new belt and pulley set should be installed. Something is allowing the rear pulle to swing in and out thus causing the belt travel. | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
Biddeford, Maine | I had the squeak so bad, I had to wear ear plugs in addition to my helmet. The dealer that I purchased the bike from adjusted the belt numerous times. New pulleys and belt were installed, problem solved for about 50 miles. Went to a different dealer, fixed in fifteen minutes no charge. Just starting again after 3500 miles. Never had this issue with my '05 Touring Cruiser.
Knowing what I now know, I would still buy the Vision, just from a different dealer. | |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | I posted this in a different belt squeal thread but will also post here...
I've received an email from Phil Ross who owns Super Max Products, a belt drive/pulley manufacturer. It was in response to this thread.
He writes:
"My name is Phil Ross. I own Super Max Products. We have been in the belt drive
business since the early 70's and we make all of our belt drive products
with Poly-Pulleys. Over the last few years, we have perfected a method to
Over-Lay many of the existing rear wheel pulleys currently on the market. Nearly
all aluminum pulleys squeal after only a few miles and looking at a thread on
your website, I see that there innumerable people with that problem but no one
seems to be aware that the noise can be stopped by having us over-lay their
existing pulleys. The early Victories were machined out too far and couldn't
be over-layed but we now see they the later ones can be done over..Longer belt
life and no lubrication is required..www.supermax.net.
Thank you, Phil Ross"
Just thought I'd pass this on.
Jeff
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Cruiser
Posts: 70
Central Victoria, Australia | has anyone followed up with the supermax people?
Sounds like these people know what they are doing ?
id really like to get rid of my drive line noise, is everyone got it sorted or just putting up with the noise
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
West Bend, WI | Phil Ross passed away last December. Not sure if the business is still up and running. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | They still have a web site. I sent them an e-mail to see if I can get some info. If I get a response I will post. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada | Change tire air to nitrogen, and if that does not work, make sure the gas cap is on tight. Sorry I could not resist, I too had the squealing belt probrlem, I found the cure.......tighten belt. First check belt alignment, if good then I loosened axle nut, and turned tightener 1/6 of turn tighter, and tightened axle nut. Took for a ride, and have not had the squeal since. May take 1-2 tries, however, a belt only squeals when loose or out of allignment. Not saying there could not be something else wrong, but lets "KISS" Keep It Simple Stupid. We are riding Victory Motorcycles, not Harley Davidsons, that need to be re-engineered aft over 100 years of production! | |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | Just a suggestion and I am NOT a wrench by any means. After owning my Vision for about six months, my belt developed a chirp on hard acceleration as well. My Harley riding friend suggested I try the using Harley moly oil. It is designed to lubricate the front belt gear but also lubricates the belt. Looks very similar to Vaseline. So I bought a tube, three or four dollars. Put the bike on my jack stand, started the engine, dropped the bike into first gear. As the belt rotated, I dabbed about four pea sized globs of lub on the belt. Noise gone. This was in September. This last week I noticed a very small chirp again. Repeated the procedure, chirp gone. Now this may not be a permanent fix, but it worked for me. Again NOT a wrench by any means. Just offering a little info. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 70
Central Victoria, Australia | thanks folks,
sad to her about Ross sounds like he was a visionary.
I had my bike serviced and was told all was good, and developed the "noise" about 2 miles from the shop!!
i spoke to shop, they said you can check your alignment by.. I explained thats what i just paid for
they were forwarding my concerns to the Service Manager
Phil | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | As stated earlier I am posting the reply;
Hi Gary,
We are indeed still in business. At present we are able to do our overlays on the following tooth count: 61, 64, 65, 70. Most for what is sent to us is 1 1/2". But we can also do 1 1/4" or 1/1/8". Our base price for the 1 1/2" is $535.00 plus shipping, insurance back to you. Every other week is machine week, and all orders are done by appointment, due to the large volume of pulleys we receive. Call me and set up an order, 928-649-2836. And yes, 98% of the time is does take care of the noise. The only problems some of the guys might have is if you are using a belt with too much wear, that does not correctly fit the pulley.
Thanks Gary,
Vyvyan Ross SMP
That's hot off the e-mail!
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | space_cwboy - 2008-08-22 10:45 AM
For all of you that currently have belt noise, do one very simple check - get down on all fours behind the bike and look at how your belt CURRENTLY aligns on the rear pulley. If you cannot verify that the pulley is not against either the left or right edge (most likely) of the pulley, you have an alignment problem! If you have or have access to a motorcycle jack, align it yourself, as it is easier than you could possibly think! It will take about 30 minutes to complete, you only need a large crescent wrench capable of opening to 1-1/16", and a 1/2" wrench. Here are the steps:
1. Lift the bike so the rear wheel is off the ground
2. Place the trans in neutral
3. Loosen the 1-1/16" axle nut
4. Turn the right side ("passenger" side) rear axle adjuster 1/4 turn using a 1/2" wrench - move axle towards front of bike if belt is against right side of pulley, or move axle towards rear of bike if belt is against left side of pulley.
5. Turn the left side ("driver" side) rear axle adjuster 1/4 turn, using a 1/2" wrench - move axle towards rear of bike if belt is against right side of pulley, or move axle towards front of bike if belt is against left side of pulley.
6. Spin rear wheel by hand, turning wheel as if the motorcycle is going forwards at least 2-3 full rotations
7. Observe if drive belt is now centered on rear pulley - if so, skip to step 9.
8. If observation in step 7 shows drive belt is not centered on rear pulley, repeat steps 4, 5, 6, & 7 until belt is centered.
9. Carefully tighten the 1-1/16" axle nut to factory specs
10. Lower the bike off the motorcycle jack
11. Enjoy chirp-free riding!
My recommendation with the above is IF you repeat steps 4-7 more than about 4 or 5 times, you should recheck the belt tightness to see if it still is within spec. By turning one side of the axle one way, and the other side of the axle the other to help align the wheel and belt, its relative location on the bike does not change significantly, and should not cause the drive belt tightness to go out of spec. If you have to make a LARGE number of adjustment cycles to get the belt to track properly, it MAY affect the belt tightness spec.
I hope this helps...I know I was sure frustrated for some time when my belt was making so much noise, so I can surely sympathize.
At 6000 miles I just started to develop a new noise. Having never owned a belt driven bike I turned to the VV forum and found the answer.
Thanks to Space Cowboy and everyone else who provides these great tips. The archives are a treasury of knowledge that I really appreciate. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | So I'm getting ready for a trip and my belt has been squeaking two-up for about a week. I tried adjusting the belt, and since it's against the right side of the pulley, I naturally moved the right side of the axle backwards a little bit, thinking then the left side would be closer to the front, and the belt would move over that way. Unfortunately, like most things scientific, the real answer, as proposed by Spacecowboy above, appears to be the exact opposite, I suspect because the belt will actually "climb" to the most rearward side of the pulley as opposed to "falling" to the most forward side. Oh, well, that's why I don't live in Vegas, since I got a 90% chance of blowing a 50/50 bet.
That said, I had read before that some belt dressing would also take care of the problem. Well, I bought some, squirted it on a portion of the belt that was exposed, figuring it would spread itself evenly around the pulleys, etc., as the wheels turned. It stopped the squeal, sure enough, but then I had a "grench-grench-grench" noise. Thinking I was on the right track, I applied more, figuring that as an American, more is better, and I just needed enough to coat everything better. The "grenching" noise kept getting worse. Scratching my head, I reread the can, and the words "for V-belts" jumped out at me with new importance. What does a slipping V-belt have in common with a toothed belt that squeaks? Not much, as the v-belt needs GLUE to stop slipping and squealing, and the toothed belt needs LUBRICANT! If the teeth are still there, slipping isn't the issue. So I boogied over to my garage medicine chest and pulled out a spray bottle of "Wax as you Dry" and squirted a liberal dose on the belt and crossed my fingers, and lo and behold, the problem seems solved for the time being, until I get an opportunity to adjust the right side of the axle forward a bit to try and align the thing on the pulley before I hit the slab. Hope this helps, and frankly, I'm thinking of picking up a small can of silicone lube to spray on the belt in case the problem returns while I'm on the road or I'm unable to cure it with the adjustment approach.
Edited by rainryder 2011-06-20 1:33 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 95
Alberta, Canada | My dealer replaced my rear pulley on warrenty and it has not made a sound again!! Been over 20,000 K and its quiet!! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| All ways roll belt forward like riding. Chirp or squeal comes from when belt teeth come out of the grove and hit the flange that holds the belt in place.
We can't see it on our bike but you want the belt to go is straight as possible. Looking on the bottom is really not the answer cause the front pulley
sends it back to the rear pulley in a straight line.
No I don't have a answer other then keep trying. | |
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Belt Noise