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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| I was driving home yesterday on my 09 Vision and I would go to accelerate, the engine would rev but it would not accelerate. If I eased into it would. So I think my clutch is slipping. I run Amsoil, so I went to autozone and purchased some other oil and changed that, no change. The Vic dealer is 30 miles away so I haven't used that oil. Any other possible causes other than the clutch? I have about 17k on my bike. I don't ride too hard. This will be my first time changing the clutch if I need to, I have the service manual and a good walkthrough but don't know what all would need replaced. Some good numbers and any advice would help. Also I have not been able to find the special tools needed online, part #'s PV-43502-A & PV-45032. When I get home I'm going to double check the clutch lever, the fluid reservoir and the diaphragm inside it. Thanks in advance. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | I assume you have been running Amsoil motorcycle oil? If not....
You can consider this; we've done it with DR650's... it has cleaned up some slipping clutch issues for others. Put a couple of ounces of SeaFoam into your oil and run it for 100 miles or so (city driving). Then change your oil out for fresh. Either that will clean up your plates or you'll need to tear into it to check/repair and replace them. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| I might try that. I'm going to look at my hydraulic clutch part tonight when I get home to see if maybe that is binding and staying engaged. Man that would be nice, quick fix. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | When you change your oil. Make sure to use a semi-synthetic motorcycle oil for wet clutches. Victory, Castrol, Spectro, would be my first choices
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | - Listen to Kevin
- Bled your clutch out.
I don't want to pee in anybody's cornflakes but I think you'll have to change your clutch. You'll decide that about changing your oil the first time, then in about 1,000 miles change it again and see how much it improves. Ride it hard from a stop and if you get noticable slipping, well... As far as the SeaFoam, I don't know, but I would be afraid to, because that might eat into the plate. I'm not saying to rule it out if the second oil change doesn't help, but that's when I would do it, you'll having to lose from there. I don't believe I had the slipping you seem to describe, but when I went away from full synthetic to a semi-syn blend (lucas 10w40 motorcycle oil) the slipping went away too. That was about 60,000 miles ago, or so. Keep us posted. PP |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| Thanks for your help gentlemen, I fixed it. There was some build up around the clutch lever, took it apart, cleaned and lubed it and voila, I'm back in business. I get deployed so much that it just sat there, I change the oil and things but must have missed that one. I am so happy. Cheap and easy. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | excellent. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 77
Bainville, & Mesa, AZ, MT | Prime Power - 2014-04-25 1:02 PM
Thanks for your help gentlemen, I fixed it. There was some build up around the clutch lever, took it apart, cleaned and lubed it and voila, I'm back in business. I get deployed so much that it just sat there, I change the oil and things but must have missed that one. I am so happy. Cheap and easy.
If I would have seen this thread sooner, I would have recommended checking the clutch lever as I had the exact same thing happen to mine. At least you're not the only one. |
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Tourer
Posts: 308
Vineland, NJ United States | what do you mean by "took it apart"? |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | Thank God now I can keep using my amsoil aro oil |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| I took the clutch lever out and cleaned all over |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| southjerseyrider - 2014-04-26 8:38 AM what do you mean by "took it apart"? There is your pivot screw un bolt it. You pivot pin will come out. Clean all. Lube pin and pivot screw and put back together |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
| The problem will never be because you use Amsoil Full Synthetic |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Never say never. Amsoil got my clutch, after a drain and refill with Vic, back to working fine. Tried amsoil a few oil changes later for a long trip..... Slipped again. Drain and rinse with semi syn rotella, slip gone immediatly. Been over 60k since my last amsoil run with zero slipping. I'm convinced, my bike and amsoil don't mix. I will say it only happened at very high speed very aggressive pulls in 4th, 5th and 6th gear.
I know amsoil works for many, but never say never.
Ride on! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Glad you got it fixed.
FYI, the bracket for the cable at the transmission can bend over time and cause the clutch to act up.
Always good to clean clutch lever every spring with the other spring prep stuff. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Thanks, I clean and lube clutch every 15k. 93k miles and still going strong. Never before have I owned a bike that had zero Mx issues with this kind of mileage, lovin it still |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Prime Power...you mentioned "deployed so much"...are you in the service. If yes, thank you so much for your service to all of us/USA!!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | CaptDenny - 2014-12-23 9:08 PM
The problem will never be because you use Amsoil Full Synthetic
True, as long as you use the Amsoil product specified for Victory (and the Japanese) motorcycles. Some folks insist on using the one meant for Harleys, and then have problems. Then they blame Amsoil for their own mistake.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i know this means nothing.. but i have used amsoil MOTORCYCLE oil in ALL my bikes and Atv's for as long as i have been riding.. I also own a Honda accord v6 automatic.. it has a horrible track record of transmission failures.. on the forums, you read about them failing almost daily.. But yet mine has not failed... (btw also using amsoil transmission fluid) . all this means really is , all things are NOT created equal.. Just way to many other-outside variables that could be overlooked , you pick one or a few... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i've said this before in another post.. im a little shocked the same clutch components are used in a 638 lbs Vegas , as in a 869 lbs Vision (weight based on victorys dry weights) then just for the hell of it i wanted to see what friction plates were used in a 2003 vegas.. well they are the same.. so a 2003 vegas as the same part numbers for the clutch plates as a bike much heavier that was made 5 years later... then factor in a vision probably has a much greater chance of being ridden 2-up and some people do 2 up and pull a trailer ! who knows maybe the much older vegas had a Super clutch and its more than just fine for the 231 lbs heavier Vision..? i remember reading Victory in their wisdom uses different Cams depending on if you have a touring model or not.. i guess that distinction does not apply for the drive train.? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Arkainzeye - 2014-12-27 11:15 PM
i've said this before in another post.. im a little shocked the same clutch components are used in a 638 lbs Vegas , as in a 869 lbs Vision (weight based on victorys dry weights) then just for the hell of it i wanted to see what friction plates were used in a 2003 vegas.. well they are the same.. so a 2003 vegas as the same part numbers for the clutch plates as a bike much heavier that was made 5 years later... then factor in a vision probably has a much greater chance of being ridden 2-up and some people do 2 up and pull a trailer ! who knows maybe the much older vegas had a Super clutch and its more than just fine for the 231 lbs heavier Vision..? i remember reading Victory in their wisdom uses different Cams depending on if you have a touring model or not.. i guess that distinction does not apply for the drive train.?
The tuners have found by trial that the Victory Freedom motor stock clutches are good up to about 120 FT/LBS of torque. That means they are more than adequate for the stock power output of any Victory model in stock form, and can handle a major increase in power too. They are "Super Clutches" right out of the box--regardless of the model they are installed in, including the heavy touring models. The amount of torque being applied to the ground is what overpowers any clutch--not the weight of the bike. Heavier bikes require more torque application than a lighter bike to achieve any given amount of acceleration, but it's the torque being applied that the clutch sees--regardless of the weight of the bike. It is true that the lighter bikes take less torque to accelerate and then the load curve drops off more quickly with a lighter bike than a heavier one, but it still comes down to the amount of time that a given amount of torque is being applied.
The stock Victory clutch is designed to transfer up to 120 FT/LBS of torque. Anything less than that, in any weight bike, and you're good.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Do you have any documentation on the 120 Ft/lbs number you quoted. what is the Stock torque of the freedom motor ?
i wanted to ask. so if you have a freedom 106 motor and the bike is 500 lbs or a bike that weighs 2000 lbs it has no affect on clutch life? "The amount of torque being applied to the ground is what overpowers any clutch--not the weight of the bike. " just as long as the torque of the motor does Not exceed 120 ft/lbs ?
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Arkainzeye, look at your drive train the way your clutch does. It sees power coming from the engine in the form of torque and passes it along to the rear wheel as so much torque. It knows nothing about horsepower because that is simply a product of torque and RPM. Rotational speed of a stock clutch should be completely unaffected by RPM. If you had a 2000 lb bike you would probably need lower gearing just to move it but the torque from a 106 engine would not change at all. In high gear on that bloated monster you might be going 70 MPH at 5000 RPM due to the reduced gearing to just make it go, but your clutch would simply not know that.
As far as documentation of the 120 ft-lb, I have seen both Rylan and KevinX give a number around that value as the max for a stock clutch in various forum quotes but I doubt either one can present a research paper on it. It is an empirical limit that they know about from their experiences and it affects their advice. Did you know that if you lay a 2x4 board across an 8 foot gap and try to walk across, it will break? How do you know that and can you prove it? I will go with experiences of people who have lots to draw on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i wasnt doubting the 120 ft lbs number. i was just wondering were such a exact number came from? I saw on lloyds website the mention of 120 ft lbs , but it was in relationship to this. http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000079
also i was just wondering something else.. its a honest question not a doubt of what anyone has said.. i saw the same clutch on a 2003 vegas, now i know i was told basically forget about the weigh of what the clutch / motor is pushing / pulling. what was the size of the 2003 vegas motor? were All victory clutch just completely over engineered to handle way more than they were designed to produce? if they used those components 12 years old and since then have increased HP & Ft lbs, are these Oem clutches best to be replaced when the ones in the bike go bad.. or should one still go the aftermarket route.. ive always wanted to know more about the clutches.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Arkainzeye - 2014-12-28 12:06 PM
i wasnt doubting the 120 ft lbs number. i was just wondering were such a exact number came from?
what was the size of the 2003 vegas motor? were All victory clutch just completely over engineered to handle way more than they were designed to produce? i
People like Lloyd, Kevin, Rylan, Kyle, etc have found through trial that the stock clutch can handle up to 120 FT/LBS of torque. So, yes, when installed in the stock bikes that come out of the box with around 100 FT/LBS of torque, or less, they are over engineered. There is a significant margin of safety built in.
The engines themselves were engineered to produce significantly more power than they come out of the box with--being of 4 valve hemi-head design. For reasons undeclared by Victory, they come with cams and programming designed to reduce torque (and horsepower) significantly above 4000 RPM. Lloyd has designed cams that make use of the engine design's potential and the top tuners have learned how to get the most out of them. Improved flow management (cams) at higher RPMs means that more fuel is needed to balance the higher air flows and so fuel controllers and better/more intake filters are beneficial. The potential was always there. The factory chose not to use all of it, but the stock clutch has been proven many times to hold up to 120 FT/LBS. Folks at, or near that level, and who tend to use it a lot, can beat the stock clutch down over time. Continuous hard use takes its toll.
Lloydz variable pressure clutch is designed for those folks who constantly beat on the clutch or have power exceeding the design limits of the stock one.
It isn't quite as cut and dried as all that because weight vs gearing vs rotational speeds do factor in, but basically, the stock clutch can handle up to 120 FT/LBS of torque at the typical gearing combinations and speeds of our Victorys.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2014-12-28 1:34 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | rdbudd , thank you very much for sharing all that info.. sorry i didnt mean to high jack this thread.. but i guess in a slight way, its still about clutches.. lol i always like to learn something new.. |
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Help please, slipping clutch