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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 42
Vacaville, CA United States | I'm thinking of putting Amsoil 10-40 synthetic oil in my 2013 Vision. Any experience with same or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Daveg53
2013 Victory Vision Tour
Loydz flywheel
Witchdoctor baffled mufflers
1/4 turn throttle |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Princeton, MN | I use Ams 20-50 mc oil,, recommended for wet clutch.. or in a bind Mobil MC oil both work well 54+k on my Vision, pure one Purolator filter |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I know I'll be disputed but I used synthetic oil in my bike, including Amsoil and I noticed two things. I would get seepage around the cam cover on the right side and I felt a slight slippage when the bike had around 100,000 miles on it. It was enough to make me think it was time to replace the clutch. It was at that time I felt using a full synthetic was not such a great idea so I switched back to a semi-synthetic blend before I replaced the clutch. With the first oil change I noticed a difference, but I still sensed a slight slippage but on the second oil change it seemed normal again. That was 50,000 some miles ago. I've convinced to stay with a semi-blend. And I've gotten no seepage either around my cam cover since changing back. That's my story. Up until then I would swear by a synthetic and you can find posts to that claim here in Vision Riders. I no longer feel that way, but each of us have to be convinced on our own merits.
Edited by varyder 2014-03-17 9:14 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | I used Rotella T6 for about 20K - 25K miles on the VV. All of a sudden when I started to downshift into 1st at a stop sign I would get a shudder in the clutch when I let it out. I took it to the dealer under warranty and they tore is down. What they found was a dry clutch due to the synthetic oil (per Polaris). They soaked the plates overnight in Vic oil and reinstalled it. I haven't had the problem again since I switched back to Vic oil. Polaris was pretty set on using a semi synthetic oil only. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | varyder - 2014-03-17 10:12 AM
I know I'll be disputed but I used synthetic oil in my bike, including Amsoil and I noticed two things. I would get seepage around the cam cover on the right side and I felt a slight slippage when the bike had around 100,000 miles on it. It was enough to make me think it was time to replace the clutch. It was at that time I felt using a full synthetic was not such a great idea so I switched back to a semi-synthetic blend before I replaced the clutch. With the first oil change I noticed a difference, but I still sensed a slight slippage but on the second oil change?it seemed normal again. That was 50,000 some miles ago. I've convinced to stay with a semi-blend. And I've gotten no seepage either around my cam cover since changing back. That's my story. Up until then I would swear by a synthetic and you can find posts to that claim here in Vision Riders. I no longer feel that way, but each of us have to be convinced on our own merits.
WERD!
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | And to KevinX who told me so about 100,000 miles ago... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA |
for what its worth.. i saw this info and remembered it from a while back..
Synthetic oil flow more readily than petroleum oil does so if you have a leak it will tend to leak from it more freely. This however is caused by an all ready failing seal. Not by the synthetic oil itself.
Petroleum motor oils are notorious for forming what's know as a "false seal" Varnish and crud will build up around a failing seal over time and help keep a more viscous petroleum oil from leaking. Synthetic oils that are highly detergent will clean off the build up and expose the all ready failing seal. There's your leak!
For this reason I suggest that synthetic oil's only be used in mechanically sound engines. If you have a leaking seal replace it prior to installing synthetic motor oil.
I have also seen many cases where older engines are starting to seep oil because some motor oils have poor long term seal compatibility. Exposure to these low grade oils causes the seals to harden and seal poorly.
All motor oil, synthetic and petroleum alike contain chemicals as part of the additives that are added to the oil that are there to keep engine seals pliable and to cause mild swelling so the seal works properly. Some oils are better at this function then others.
Edited by Arkainzeye 2014-03-17 11:00 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Daveg53 - 2014-03-17 7:40 AM
I'm thinking of putting Amsoil 10-40 synthetic oil in my 2013 Vision. Any experience with same or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Daveg53
2013 Victory Vision Tour
Loydz flywheel
Witchdoctor baffled mufflers
1/4 turn throttle
I've used it for many years and like it. I run it 5000 miles with a WIX 51356 filter that you can buy at any parts store.
Just do NOT use the Amsoil 20W-50 MCV oil in your Victory. It's designed specifically for Harley and Buell and has additives the Victory (and Japanese bikes) doesn't like. It's not unheard of to have some clutch slippage if you use it in a Victory or Japanese bike. Wrong application.
I've had good luck with the 10W-40AMO in my Vision and it or the 20W-50ARO in my Sport Cruiser. I've never had any clutch issues and I've broken three belts on the SC and pulled wheelies with the Vision while drag racing them. No clutch slippage with either.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arkainzeye - 2014-03-17 11:59 AM for what its worth.. i saw this info and remembered it from a while back.. Synthetic oil flow more readily than petroleum oil does so if you have a leak it will tend to leak from it more freely. This however is caused by an all ready failing seal. Not by the synthetic oil itself. Petroleum motor oils are notorious for forming what's know as a "false seal" Varnish and crud will build up around a failing seal over time and help keep a more viscous petroleum oil from leaking. Synthetic oils that are highly detergent will clean off the build up and expose the all ready failing seal. There's your leak! For this reason I suggest that synthetic oil's only be used in mechanically sound engines. If you have a leaking seal replace it prior to installing synthetic motor oil. I have also seen many cases where older engines are starting to seep oil because some motor oils have poor long term seal compatibility. Exposure to these low grade oils causes the seals to harden and seal poorly. All motor oil, synthetic and petroleum alike contain chemicals as part of the additives that are added to the oil that are there to keep engine seals pliable and to cause mild swelling so the seal works properly. Some oils are better at this function then others. good explanation, but it doesn't explain why there was clutch slippage with full synthetic and not with the semi-blend. Too my knowledge I do not have seals leaking, rather gaskets leaking. I don't know what the time frame for varnish to build up to seal any leakage but I wouldn't think it to be right away. I'm not afraid of full synthetic and I only returned to semi-blend when the clutch began to slip to see if it would help this el cheapo rider make his clutch last longer. When I felt the difference I realized what I onced believed to be myths were in fact true. It's hard to convince folks with real world experience of one truth to be convinced by another just because "research shows x y z". Diet suppliment companies make their living off of "proven research". Not that I'm implying anything...
Edited by varyder 2014-03-17 12:56 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you said in our previous discussions that the synthetic oil you had been using for a long time, when you experienced clutch issues, was the Rotella T6 full synthetic. I don't doubt your experiences, but the OP was asking about the 10W-40 AMSOIL..................
Two completely different products. You can't condemn all synthetics based on the results with one particular brand and weight. If you were using Rotella diesel truck oil, what does that have to do with Amsoil?
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | I am going to agree with VARyder. Unless you have long term data to present, not just a couple of oil changes, you have zero evidence of a particular oil being acceptable for an engine. Either use the specified oil or you are on your own. There are lots of good oils out there but the Vic oil is made to match the engine and transmission's needs. If you choose not to use it, why would you expect equally good outcomes? I hate when a company says use my stuff or you will suffer, but the fact is that other oils are not designed to exactly match the needs of a Vision. They are designed to match what their manufacturers think are great standards and they have tons of evidence that they were successful in doing so. The problem, at least in my mind, is that they are not designed to meet the needs of this particular engine/transmission. Heck people even come on line and propose using oil with the wrong viscosity because it works in other engines they have. Those other engines are not Vics so the results they have had on other engines are basically not applicable to a Vic.
As an example: If I have a conventional traditional air conditioning system it has a specific refrigerant that is ideal for use in that system. A few years ago the EPA basically outlawed that refrigerant. Today I could come on and recommend that same outlawed refrigerant but i would help nobody. The stuff is illegal to use today and new refrigerants have been developed as replacements. None of those replacements actually perform as well as the originals but they are the best you can get today, except on the back market. Is it ideal, no way. Does it meet OEM standards, again no way. Can the manufacturers show that it works pretty well, you bet they can. Now I look at substitute oils in the same light. Can Amsoil or Royal Purple or several others show that they are identical to the original Vic oil? No way. Can they say they have tested their oils to meet their standards? You bet they can. Are they really the ideal oil for your engine? I seriously doubt it. Do they really claim to meet each characteristic that Vic oil meets? Heck no, they claim to be in some way superior. Now we get down to the real nitty gritty. Does Amsoil or Royal Purple define the needs of a Vic engine better than Victory does? I seriously doubt it. The best they can hope for is to match Victory oil, but that is something they will tell you they do not intend to do. Instead they will tell you that mama knows better and Victory is misguided in their own engine's needs. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Daveg53 - 2014-03-17 7:40 AM
I'm thinking of putting Amsoil 10-40 synthetic oil in my 2013 Vision. Any experience with same or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Daveg53
2013 Victory Vision Tour
Loydz flywheel
Witchdoctor baffled mufflers
1/4 turn throttle
i use that in my last 2 visions.. its in my 11 vision now.. i mostly used 10w40. there has been times i used 20w50 (not needed) and there has ben times i did a 50/50 mixture of Amsoil 10w40 and amsoil 20w50 mc oil.. btw all that does is make a very thick w40 "almost a 50weight" i used to do this with my kawasaki vulcan 2000 and had the oil tested by black stone labs... I really like how amsoil makes the transmission shift. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Oldman47 - 2014-03-17 5:50 PM
I am going to agree with VARyder. Unless you have long term data to present, not just a couple of oil changes, you have zero evidence of a particular oil being acceptable for an engine.
13 years and counting, using Amsoil in Victory motorcycles. It performs far better in MY real motorcycles than the Victory factory oil. More than twice as good, in fact, in many years of personal real world usage.
I'm not going to rehash all the details again. A search of this and other forums will tell the story.
The Op asked if anyone else had used the 10W-40 Amsoil, and I replied in the affirmative.
Have you ever used it, or are you just speculating?
Ronnie
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| only having a 08 and amsiol with not a 1000 miles but have had no problem with clutch. All clutch manufactures will tell you they will work with syn oils. I use 10w40 cause the motor warms up quicker and cools like 20w50. Guys that have clutch slippage probably have use many other oil in there bike. Diesel oil is not for my bike.
Make sure you have 25 hundred miles on bike before going to any syn oil |
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Cruiser
Posts: 155
Victoria Tx, TX United States | I have spoke to many Oil Company reps.. I personally use Maxima 4 Synthetic 10/40. What they all seem to say.. IF you choose to use other than your factory oil. MAKE SURE the later # which in our case is 40 matches. The 1st # which in my case is 10 just means the oil flows quicker. Yes there are addvantages of Synth over Dyno oil. Vic added the two together because 100% Dyno won't work. I agree with johnntvision wait till 2,500 miles or your 2nd oil change to go synthetic. THERE I feel better? Put my 2 cents in. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | The Royal Purple rep that came to my store. Would not sell their product to us; after he looked at one of our clutch plates. He said between the high metallic content, and toque. He was sure we would see some slippage. This was a man who made a living selling motor oils. Pretty much confirmed my own observations |
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Cruiser
Posts: 155
Victoria Tx, TX United States | According to my friends that are bike techs. It is Purples additive package that limits them in which bikes can use their product. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | el spanky - 2014-03-17 9:08 PM
According to my friends that are bike techs. It is Purples additive package that limits them in which bikes can use their product.
And so it is with Amsoil products too. They make many different oils for many different applications. As I have said before, the 20W-50MCV oil is specifically formulated for Harley and Buell usage and is NOT listed for the Victory or Japanese bikes because of the special additives. It is NOT recommended by Amsoil for use in Victory or Japanese bikes. Says so right in the applications. Yet, some people used it anyway, and sometimes had problems with their clutch. Then they blame the synthetic oil and categorically dismiss all Amsoil products, when they are the ones who screwed up by using the wrong product for the application.
Amsoil makes three other oils that are compatible with the Victory and Japanese clutches. Those brands are specifically listed in the applications for the 10W-40MCF motorcycle oil. The other two are not marketed as "motorcycle oil", but meet and exceed all the requirements put forth by Victory.
The Royal Purple representative that spoke to Kevin is to be commended for recognizing that not all synthetic oils are the same, not all wet clutches are the same, and that his product does not match the requirements of Victory clutches either. Does that make Royal Purple a bad product? Of course not. It's great stuff for the applications it is designed for.
Sort of like synthetic diesel truck oil. It's great for the diesel trucks and their operating conditions and requirements.
Ronnie |
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
Virginia Beach, VA | I say use what ever you want. Sounds like that is what most here do any way. Why seek advice if all that happens is that you are trying to change the minds of those not intending to listen. As an old retired Navy jet engine mechanic, I believe in fixing and maintaining them as if I'm flying them and there is no place to land but the ship. I will do what the maintenance manuals require me to do. Use the Fluids that are specified for use. If you feel comfortable messing with your own stuff, then so be it. Have fun. I believe in doing what's right. If proper testing is completed and the results say that there are alternatives that are safe to use, then fine, use them. If you don't think that the Victory oil is good enough to last 5,000 miles, change it more frequently. It can't hurt. If something falls apart inside that motor or clutch, I don't want any fingers pointing at me because I used the wrong oil. We put a lot of money into these bikes, what's a couple dollars more or less for an oil change? Like I said before, use what ever you want. Just don't complain when things go south. I just changed the oil in my Vision the other day, guess what I used. If you have to question something, then are you really sure? Now, bring on the better weather. I want to ride. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Haze_Gray - 2014-03-18 8:29 AM
I say use what ever you want. Sounds like that is what most here do any way. Why seek advice if all that happens is that you are trying to change the minds of those not intending to listen. As an old retired Navy jet engine mechanic, I believe in fixing and maintaining them as if I'm flying them and there is no place to land but the ship. I will do what the maintenance manuals require me to do. Use the Fluids that are specified for use. If you feel comfortable messing with your own stuff, then so be it. Have fun. I believe in doing what's right. If proper testing is completed and the results say that there are alternatives that are safe to use, then fine, use them. If you don't think that the Victory oil is good enough to last 5,000 miles, change it more frequently. It can't hurt. If something falls apart inside that motor or clutch, I don't want any fingers pointing at me because I used the wrong oil. We put a lot of money into these bikes, what's a couple dollars more or less for an oil change? Like I said before, use what ever you want. Just don't complain when things go south. I just changed the oil in my Vision the other day, guess what I used. If you have to question something, then are you really sure? Now, bring on the better weather. I want to ride.
Transmissions WERE falling apart on Victory motorcycles, using Victory oil, changed at 2500 mile intervals, when I started my search for a better lubricant. Like many others, MY transmission was acting up badly after 2000 miles on Victory oil. Victory claimed their oil was good for only 2500 miles. They set the change interval at 2500 miles. They were almost right. It is good for about 2000 miles in the early bikes. Changing to fresh Victory oil always made the transmission "straighten up and fly right" again--for about 2000 miles. Then, the troubles would return. Obviously, the oil was worn out by 2000 miles and no longer providing sufficient lubrication to key areas. Victory was getting a bad reputation for having transmission troubles, yet they maintained all along that their transmissions weren't the problem. What was then? Why did fresh oil restore the shifting qualities? Why did the shifting always become problematic after 2000 miles on the "Victory recommended oil"?
14 years later, I agree, their transmissions weren't the problem, per se. The problem was insufficient lubrication, which led to physical parts breakage and broken transmissions. Once parts are damaged, no oil is going to fix them. The wise course of action would be to prevent the damage in the first place. Two options here. Change the Victory oil at 1500 to 2000 miles, at the first sign of trouble-----or use a better lubricant in the first place.
After trying some other brands, with no improvement over the Victory oil, I finally tried Amsoil. I gradually stretched out the change intervals and finally settled on 5000 miles, and the transmission has never acted up since the switch, EXCEPT for the time that I needed to change oil and didn't have enough Amsoil on hand. I used a Victory oil change kit that I had left over from before the switch to Amsoil. 2000 miles later, my transmission was acting up again, just like the old days. A change back to Amsoil, and the transmission was shifting fine again. It's that much better than Victory oil, in the early bikes' transmissions.
The later bikes, such as a Vision, have much more refined transmissions that don't place such quite such high demands on the oil as the earlier bikes. Yet, Victory still recommends 2500 mile oil changes on my 2008 Vision using their oil...........
It turns out that it is also cheaper to use than the Victory oil, due to the extended service intervals.
My 2000SC still has the original transmission, and never misses a shift on Amsoil, even with 5000 miles on the stuff. On the Victory oil, it would start missing shifts and jumping out of gear around 1800-2000 miles on the oil. Had I stuck with the "factory recommended oil", I have no doubt that the transmission would have failed long ago, like so many others. The poor shifting and the concern over the transmission was the reason I tried other oils in the first place--NOT just because I "wanted to be different". I still owed a lot of money on that bike at the time, and I thought I had made a bad mistake in buying a Victory because of the transmission troubles all around the Victory community. Better lubrication was the answer to the problem.
That's the facts, borne out by personal experience--not unsubstantiated opinion and conjecture.
I don't know about the Navy, but I know the Army specified better lubricants as they became available. That often meant synthetics. In fact, the military was at the forefront in the search for better lubricants for the extreme operating conditions they encountered. Synthetics were the answer. The civilian market benefits from that search.
I agree, use whatever you want. It's your bike. The OP asked about actual experiences using Amsoil in Victory motorcycles. Those are mine.
Side note: I fly ultralight aircraft that are powered by Rotax aviation 2 stroke engines. These engines are mounted in the inverted position. The "factory recommended oil" is Pennsoil 2 stroke aviation oil, which is a petroleum oil. Rotax, like all aviation engines has a TBO. Engines run in the inverted position also have a periodic carbon removal schedule. The Pennsoil is recommended to be mixed at a 50-1 ratio. Carbon buildup is a minor problem, as is oil accumulation on the spark plugs, resulting in fouled spark plugs. Pulling over to clean the spark plugs is a bit of a problem should they foul while in flight, but I've done it, as has many other UL pilots.
I still have 2 gallons of the stuff. However, I've switched to Amsoil 2 stroke aviation oil, which is a synthetic. It is mixed at a 100-1 ratio, doesn't foul spark plugs, doesn't leave near the oil trail on the rudder, and doubles the TBO in practical usage.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2014-03-18 11:33 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | A touch of clarity here on the early transmissions. My findings are based on tearing down many of them for upgrades. The most common cause of failure had nothing to do with lubrication. It has to do with insufficient anchoring, and support for the shift drum. The bearings for the ends of the drum were allowed to move in the locating hole which would cock the drum. The cocked drum would apply uneven pressure on the shift forks, and eventually they would wear thin, and allow the drum even more movement. Until the drum would break the heads off the bolts of the bearing retainers. Yes an oil jet was added to the upgrade, but that was there for cooling. I know for a fact I can destroy any 99-00 stock transmission in under 100 miles.
As for any oil being "better" that's an ambiguous call. Sure people can trot out the amsoil white sheet, but it has a couple of problems. First being that it is of course bias, and testing is done to show it's strengths. Second being it does not test in any engine that is close to a Victory's needs. Through my rather larger exposure. I personally will not use or recommend a full syn in any Victory. However I do run Amsoil in my wife's Caravan, and will be switching to their old car formula in my Bug. I'm not a hater....Just an observer. Now hopefully I will quit being drawn to oil threads
Edited by kevinx 2014-03-18 12:28 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Right On, Kevin.
My philosophy: IF IT AIN'T BROKE ---- DON'T FIX IT
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | rdbudd - 2014-03-17 6:43 PM Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you said in our previous discussions that the synthetic oil you had been using for a long time, when you experienced clutch issues, was the Rotella T6 full synthetic. I don't doubt your experiences, but the OP was asking about the 10W-40 AMSOIL.................. Two completely different products. You can't condemn all synthetics based on the results with one particular brand and weight. If you were using Rotella diesel truck oil, what does that have to do with Amsoil? Ronnie I wasn't using the diesel truck oil it was the MA rated oil. When I surmised that maybe, just maybe the syn oil was the culprit and give the blend another try, I didn't want to take any chances to "see" what AMSOIL will do. I've been using Lucas 10w40 motorcycle oil since and it seems to serve my purpose. I've got 154,000 on the clock and even if I replaced the clutch today, I would stay with the blend. The bike doesn't smoke or leak oil and it still has the chatter at oil changing time. The main positive I found with the full syn was it would chatter until around 3,000 or later. The blend, it will start to chatter around 1,800-2,000, giving me time to plan my oil change. I'm like others, I'll use Amsoil in my car, at the present I am not using AMSOIL, but I would in a minute. Unless Vic comes out with a recommendation for a full syn, I'll stick with a properly rated blend. I have never used any additives in my bike oil, except when I had a sticking lifter. I used MMO, but that was around the 40 or 50,000 mark. It's not likely I'll do that again for any reason, but it seemed to work at the time and caused no harm that I know of. Warranty is long gone, I've gotten more miles out of this bike with minimal issues so I figure from here on out, I'm on a free ride. |
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Iron Butt
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| Varyder,
where do you purchase the Lucas oil from? I can find it for 40.00 for 6 qts...got a better deal? not a bad price, little more than the Rotella T5 10-40 I've been usuing. May give the Lucas a shot. |
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Cruiser
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Victoria Tx, TX United States | WOW?? All this over asking a question about oil? Just make sure your 2nd # on your oil is 40 weight. AND your oil is a JASO MA rating not a MA2. Funny in Ma Vic book? It does not read do not use synthetic oil. But we all have our fav oil as myself.. Try it.. Don't like it change it out..  |
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New Bohemia, VA | O'Really auto parts. Any where from $7 to $9 a quart, with a 10% military discount. |
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Jasper, MO | kevinx - 2014-03-18 12:24 PM
A touch of clarity here on the early transmissions. My findings are based on tearing down many of them for upgrades. The most common cause of failure had nothing to do with lubrication. It has to do with insufficient anchoring, and support for the shift drum. The bearings for the ends of the drum were allowed to move in the locating hole which would cock the drum. The cocked drum would apply uneven pressure on the shift forks, and eventually they would wear thin, and allow the drum even more movement. Until the drum would break the heads off the bolts of the bearing retainers. Yes an oil jet was added to the upgrade, but that was there for cooling. I know for a fact I can destroy any 99-00 stock transmission in under 100 miles.
As for any oil being "better" that's an ambiguous call. Sure people can trot out the amsoil white sheet, but it has a couple of problems. First being that it is of course bias, and testing is done to show it's strengths. Second being it does not test in any engine that is close to a Victory's needs. Through my rather larger exposure. I personally will not use or recommend a full syn in any Victory. However I do run Amsoil in my wife's Caravan, and will be switching to their old car formula in my Bug. I'm not a hater....Just an observer. Now hopefully I will quit being drawn to oil threads
You and I agree on most things mechanical and on performance upgrades, what works and what doesn't, and I respect your opinions and observations. This is one area where we diverge.
In my mind's logic, the missed shifts and jumping out of gear that occurred as the miles accumulate on the oil are what lead to the shift drums getting cocked and applying uneven pressure, which wears the shift forks and leads to failure. The missed shifts and jumping out of gear is due to insufficient lubrication in the first place, which puts undue strain on the components, knocking them out of alignment. How else do you explain the fact that the transmissions shift fine with fresh Victory oil, but act up after 2000 miles on it? That is a very common pattern with the early (and not-so-early) Victory transmissions. How else do you explain the fact that my transmission never acts up on Amsoil, but always does on Victory oil? It's the same transmission.
One thing is for sure. The early Victory transmissions that missed shifts and jumped out of gear weren't "fixing themselves" every time they got fresh oil. They would be fine until the oil got some miles on it, then the troubles reappeared. Enough missed shifts and jumping out of gear, and permanent damage is inevitable. That requires new parts, and no oil will fix broken parts.
I didn't like the missed shifts and jumping out of gear, knowing that damage would be permanent if it were allowed to continue, and went looking for a solution BEFORE my transmission joined the ranks of damaged transmissions. In my case, a better oil was the solution.
There were many transmission failures, of which you have seen many. You've seen the aftermath of missed shifts and jumped gears, but you're doing an autopsy after the wreck. You get to see the results of the missed shifts and jumping out of gear and the damage that results from such abnormal operation. We only disagree on the root cause of the missed shifts and gears jumping out of engagement that result in damaged transmissions.
Actually, I suspect we're both right. The transmission design is less than optimum, requiring a severe duty oil for best performance and longevity. Using less than a severe duty oil exacerbates the design deficiency. Using a premium severe duty oil mitigates the design problem.
In my bike, the transmission always acts up with Victory oil in it, after about 2000 miles on the oil, then returns to normal operation with fresh Victory oil in it, for about 2000 miles, then back to missed shifts again. Does the transmission really "fix itself" with fresh oil? I don't think so. In my bike, the transmission never acts up, even with as much as 5000 miles on the Amsoil. The logic seems clear to me. Same bike, same transmission. The only difference is the lubrication quality provided by the two different oils. I consider the Amsoil to be preventative maintenance, and so far, I've been rewarded with an unbroken original transmission.
White sheets don't mean anything to me, and I've never touted them or referred to them in my arguments. That is a distracting argument that proves nothing. All that matters to me is what DOESN'T work and what DOES work, as proven by actual experience and performance. That's no different than my (and your) approach to performance modifications. It either works, or it doesn't, and only experience gained through trial and error can tell you which is which. I've tried Amsoil (after some other brands) and found it to be better at lubricating Victory transmissions than many other alternatives, including Victory oil. I'm convinced the early transmission failures were the result of poor design combined with insufficient lubrication. I'm just as convinced by my experiences that the design deficiencies can be mitigated, preventing damage, by using a superior lubricant.
Come on Spring! We need a ride.
Respectfully Sir,
Ronnie |
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Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | varyder - 2014-03-18 2:20 PM
rdbudd - 2014-03-17 6:43 PM Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you said in our previous discussions that the synthetic oil you had been using for a long time, when you experienced clutch issues, was the Rotella T6 full synthetic. I don't doubt your experiences, but the OP was asking about the 10W-40 AMSOIL.................. Two completely different products. You can't condemn all synthetics based on the results with one particular brand and weight. If you were using Rotella diesel truck oil, what does that have to do with Amsoil? Ronnie I wasn't using the diesel truck oil it was the MA rated oil.? When I surmised that maybe, just maybe the syn oil was the culprit and give the blend another try, I didn't want to take any chances to "see" what AMSOIL will do.? I've been using Lucas 10w40 motorcycle oil since and it seems to serve my purpose.? I've got 154,000 on the clock and even if I replaced the clutch today, I would stay with the blend.? The bike doesn't smoke or leak oil and it still has the chatter at oil changing time.? The main positive I found with the full syn was it would chatter until around 3,000 or later.? The blend, it will start to chatter around 1,800-2,000, giving me time to plan my oil change.? I'm like others, I'll use Amsoil in my car, at the present I am not using AMSOIL, but I would in a minute.? Unless Vic comes out with a recommendation for a full syn, I'll stick with a properly rated blend.? I have never used any additives in my bike oil, except when I had a sticking lifter.? I used MMO, but that was around the?40 or 50,000 mark.? It's not likely I'll do that again for any reason, but it seemed?to work at the time and caused no harm that I know of. Warranty is long gone, I've gotten more miles out of this bike with minimal issues so I figure from here on out, I'm on a free ride.
Rotella T6 is a diesel truck and heavy equipment oil. I've used Rotella for many years in my farm tractors. Until recently, it did not carry the JASO-MA rating at all. Even though it does now, the JASO-MA rating is NOT the end of the story. All it means is that is rated for SOME wet clutches, not ALL wet clutches. Wet clutches differ in materials, composition, and oil requirements, and there are other ratings the manufacturers require in addition to JASO-MA.
Case in point:
How many times have I posted that users of Amsoil should NOT use the 20W-50 MCV oil in their Victory motorcycle??? I've warned about that many times. It is formulated for the wet clutches used in Harley and Buell bikes, but not Victory and the Japanese bikes. Neither Victory, nor the Japanese brands, is listed in the applications. It also carries the JASO-MA rating. There is more to it than just that rating.
Another Amsoil product also carries the JASO-MA rating, but with the other requirements for Victory and the Japanese bikes. It is specifically recommended for Victory use. Victory, and the Japanese brands, are specifically listed in the applications. It is the 10W-40MCF.
You're just kidding yourself if all you look at is the JASO-MA rating. There's more to it than that, and the T6 didn't even have that rating for a long time anyway. Even though it now does, the total package is primarily geared to the heavy equipment industry wet clutch requirements, such as truck and power unit PTO clutches, not motorcycles.
Rotella T6 isn't Amsoil in any case. Apples and Oranges. This thread started out asking about a particular Amsoil product, not Rotella.
You probably surmised correctly that your clutch problem was with the Rotella T6. What the heck does that have to do with the AMSOIL 10W-40 MOTORCYCLE oil that the OP asked about??????
Personally, I'm not happy with an oil that "causes my engine to chatter after 1800 to 2000 miles, giving me time to plan my oil changes". YMMV. At least you've proved that frequent oil changes work too. That's something else I've always told people who ask about oil and Victorys. Change your oil at the first sign of abnormal operation, regardless of the brand of oil or the miles on it. Search the forums. I'm on record.
I do not use Amsoil in my cars. I do use it in my motorcycles, and different Amsoil products in my air-cooled power equipment, including an aircraft engine that gets me high above the trees. You don't F**K around with engines that get you high above the trees.  You use what works best.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2014-03-18 8:08 PM
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New Bohemia, VA | Maybe I have a whacked out engine and I'll barely get 200,000 miles out of it. Even with Amsoil I would get a chatter after about 3,000 to 3,500 miles. That's with an oil that is suppose to be rated from 5000 to 10,000 miles. It costs a lot more with not much more benefit. I'm more than satisfied using what I'm using now and changing the oil at the intervals that I change it.
Edited by varyder 2014-03-18 8:44 PM
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San Antonio, TX | This video was made as a warning for oil discussions.........
After a talk about the benefits of using additives the user now adds garlic to the oil.
Ride Safe
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Jasper, MO | varyder - 2014-03-18 8:43 PM
Maybe I have a whacked out engine and I'll barely get 200,000 miles out of it. Even with Amsoil I would get a chatter after about 3,000 to 3,500 miles. That's with an oil that is suppose to be rated from 5000 to 10,000 miles. It costs a lot more with not much more benefit. I'm more than satisfied using what I'm using now and changing the oil at the intervals that I change it.
You stated that your are paying between $7 and $9 per quart at O'Reilly, including a 10% military discount, for the Lucas oil you are now using. I'm paying $7.75 per quart for the Amsoil, using the Preferred Customer 25% discount. Even using YOUR stated figures of 1800-2000 miles for the Lucas and 3000-3500 miles for the Amsoil, I fail to see how the Amsoil "costs a lot more with not much more benefit". Using YOUR stated figures, you're effectively paying twice as much for the Lucas oil per mile. Even if you changed both at the SAME interval, the cost would be directly comparable. ??????????????? I just don't understand the logic here, or this "New Math". I'm still using the math I learned in the 1950s and 1960s. I guess it's outdated and 2+2 doesn't equal 4 anymore.
The important thing is that you are happy with what you are using. I'm happy with what I'm using. The OP has received a discussion revolving around Amsoil and Victory motorcycles in response to his question regarding the same. Everybody is happy.
Spring is nearly here, we can all get out on our bikes soon, and we can have another oil discussion to pass the Winter in a few months.
How are your roads over there? I'm getting some warmer weather now, pleasant enough to ride a distance, but my roads into town or to the highway are still a muddy mess. The snow is almost all gone, but the resulting mud remains. Our weather is alternating between 50-60 degree days and sub-freezing and ice and snow accumulation. We had another freezing rain, turning into snow, pass through here last Sunday.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2014-03-18 11:39 PM
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New Bohemia, VA | Even if I could get it Amsoil at your price, another 1,000 between oil change didn't impress me much.
Edited by varyder 2014-03-19 4:18 AM
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Iron Butt
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| I'm one of the unlucky ones that had clutch slippage with amsoil. Since going to 10-40 t5 I had none. Last 3 oil changes I have mixed rotella t 15-40 (3 parts) with T6 (5-40) (1 part) (yes, she'll says this is perfectly fine and their T oils are compatible and can be mixed). I think I have better shifting than with the T5. But that's just me. But I am going to give the Lucas a shot as I can't argue against V's results and mileage. |
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Iron Butt
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Broken Arrow, OK | I've used the Rotella 10W40 T5 semi syn for the last 25K miles too, Jeff.
Now sit down and take a breath because there's not a Jaso MA rating on the bottle so we're defying all laws of MC oil threads.
I'm expecting a total meltdown any day now. |
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Iron Butt
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| yup, no MA rating, but has all the proper qualities. I agree with you. According to many my bike should have blown up 70,000 miles ago. I must say I do like the mix better than the T5. I do 3 qts T 15-40 and 1.5 qts T6. But thats just me. I have a Old Norton that loves the high Zinc content of Rotella and since it works perfectly without slipping in the Vic (got slipping with Amsoil and Mobil 1 4T) I'm sticking with it. Not to mention the price is on point.
This email from Shell:
All of our Shell Rotella multi-grade viscosity products are
completely compatible with one another in any ratio. A 50/50 blend
of Shell Rotella T Triple Protection Oil SAE 15W-40 with our Shell
Rotella T6 Synthetic Oil SAE 5W-40 would be perfectly acceptable.
You could then switch to Shell Rotella T5 Synthetic Blend Oil SAE
10W-30 whenever you desire.
Thank you for your interest in Shell Lubricants!
Regards,
Edward A. Calcote
Staff Chemist
Shell Lubricants US Technical Information Center |
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Iron Butt
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Broken Arrow, OK | I love the oil, bike runs great. Only issue I'm having is it's getting harder to find here.
Last 3 jugs I ordered on Amazon. I can sometimes find it at Tractor Supply.
Got all excited this morning when I went to Autozone, they had a display of the silver T5 jugs for 13.00 gal.....but only 10W30 weight, no 40 weight. |
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Iron Butt
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| same with me Okie...tractor supply is my only way of finding it, that why I looked into mixing and was happy to find it works. Now it only a quick stop at any wally world |
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Central Maryland | jeffmack - 2014-03-19 9:36 AM
yup, no MA rating, but has all the proper qualities. I agree with you. According to many my bike should have blown up 70,000 miles ago. I must say I do like the mix better than the T5. I do 3 qts T 15-40 and 1.5 qts T6. But thats just me. I have a Old Norton that loves the high Zinc content of Rotella and since it works perfectly without slipping in the Vic (got slipping with Amsoil and Mobil 1 4T) I'm sticking with it. Not to mention the price is on point.
Shell Rotella T6 DOES NOT have a high zinc (ZDDF) content anymore. It ruined my cams and tappets last year on my modified Rocket 3 motor. |
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New Bohemia, VA | to my understanding roteller sells a semi-syn blend 20w-40, but it seems to be only available in some locales, or am I loco? I might would go back to roteller if that be so... |
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Broken Arrow, OK | 10/30 and 10/40 in the semi synthetic silverT5 jugs is all you'll find Chris, but I like your loco attitude!! |
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New Bohemia, VA | golfer in florida I thought ran a 20, maybe it is a 10. But the main point is, I haven't seen the semi-blend here except 10/30. I doesn't want to run 10/30. |
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Jasper, MO | willtill - 2014-03-19 2:55 PM
jeffmack - 2014-03-19 9:36 AM
yup, no MA rating, but has all the proper qualities. I agree with you. According to many my bike should have blown up 70,000 miles ago. I must say I do like the mix better than the T5. I do 3 qts T 15-40 and 1.5 qts T6. But thats just me. I have a Old Norton that loves the high Zinc content of Rotella and since it works perfectly without slipping in the Vic (got slipping with Amsoil and Mobil 1 4T) I'm sticking with it. Not to mention the price is on point.
Shell Rotella T6 DOES NOT have a high zinc (ZDDF) content anymore. It ruined my cams and tappets last year on my modified Rocket 3 motor.
You are absolutely correct about that. The reason for it is that Rotella T6 was specifically developed for heavy trucks that have been required by the EPA in recent years to have exhaust filters and regeneration systems. The ZDDP was removed because it would clog up the DPFs on the big trucks and the manufacturers couldn't pass EPA any other way. Rotella T6 is a diesel truck oil designed to help the trucking industry pass EPA exhaust emissions rules.
A similar disussion has been going on over on an MG forum I visit. The old MG motors use flat tappet cams and people have been having cam failures when they thought they were being smart by putting Rotella diesel truck oil in their engines. Wrong application. With the old MGs, the problem today is finding an oil that has enough ZDDP in it. Lots of folks buy a ZDDP additive, or use a specialty oil made for the old cars.
Ronnie |
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Central Maryland | There are many oils specific oils out there (Amsoil, Joe Gibbs, etc) that have higher levels of ZDDP. I am currently using Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil; which is recommended by Bob Carpenter Racing (Carpenter Racing - whom installed my 240hp package in my Rocket).
The referenced oil is not a motorcycle oil, but has high levels of ZPPD and since I'm running beefier clutch springs, the oil does not produce clutch plate slippage, even under high torque. |
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| willtill - 2014-03-19 2:55 PM
jeffmack - 2014-03-19 9:36 AM
yup, no MA rating, but has all the proper qualities. I agree with you. According to many my bike should have blown up 70,000 miles ago. I must say I do like the mix better than the T5. I do 3 qts T 15-40 and 1.5 qts T6. But thats just me. I have a Old Norton that loves the high Zinc content of Rotella and since it works perfectly without slipping in the Vic (got slipping with Amsoil and Mobil 1 4T) I'm sticking with it. Not to mention the price is on point.
Shell Rotella T6 DOES NOT have a high zinc (ZDDF) content anymore. It ruined my cams and tappets last year on my modified Rocket 3 motor.
No synthetic for the Norton. Rotella t triple has approx 1300 zinc content. Perfect for the bike. |
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Jasper, MO | jeffmack - 2014-03-19 8:11 PM
willtill - 2014-03-19 2:55 PM
jeffmack - 2014-03-19 9:36 AM
yup, no MA rating, but has all the proper qualities. I agree with you. According to many my bike should have blown up 70,000 miles ago. I must say I do like the mix better than the T5. I do 3 qts T 15-40 and 1.5 qts T6. But thats just me. I have a Old Norton that loves the high Zinc content of Rotella and since it works perfectly without slipping in the Vic (got slipping with Amsoil and Mobil 1 4T) I'm sticking with it. Not to mention the price is on point.
Shell Rotella T6 DOES NOT have a high zinc (ZDDF) content anymore. It ruined my cams and tappets last year on my modified Rocket 3 motor.
No synthetic for the Norton. Rotella t triple has approx 1300 zinc content. Perfect for the bike.
The discussion had been referencing Rotella T6 synthetic.
You are correct about the Rotella Triple T and ZDDP. It is still popular with truckers who have the older trucks, but it causes problems with the newer EPA spec trucks. For them, Shell came out with the Rotella T6.
Triple T is popular in the farming community. I use it in my newer tractors, and T1 in the antiques.
T6 was developed specifically to help the truck engine manufacturers pass the new stricter EPA exhaust regulations, and to meet the more stringent requirements of the newer, tighter tolerance, truck engines.
Ronnie
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| Never understand why you put diesel oil in a motorcycle
Never understand why you use tow different blends
Never understand why you pay big bucks for a bike and put in cheap oil |
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Central Maryland | johnnyvision - 2014-03-20 6:44 PM
Never understand why you put diesel oil in a motorcycle
Never understand why you use tow different blends
Never understand why you pay big bucks for a bike and put in cheap oil If you have ever gazed upon a 2300cc 3 cyclinder Triumph Rocket III engine... ....you would understand Grasshopper 
Edited by willtill 2014-03-20 6:19 PM
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Tourer
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Case in point:
How many times have I posted that users of Amsoil should NOT use the 20W-50 MCV oil in their Victory motorcycle??? I've warned about that many times. It is formulated for the wet clutches used in Harley and Buell bikes, but not Victory and the Japanese bikes. Neither Victory, nor the Japanese brands, is listed in the applications.
Ronnie
Funny, this from the Amsoil site: http://www.amsoil.com/AmsoilGarage/MotoLookup.aspx?url=2008+VICTORY...
BTW, the same 20W-50 is listed on the Harley page. |
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| Daveg53 - 2014-03-17 7:40 AM
I'm thinking of putting Amsoil 10-40 synthetic oil in my 2013 Vision. Any experience with same or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Daveg53
2013 Victory Vision Tour
Loydz flywheel
Witchdoctor baffled mufflers
1/4 turn throttle
I am using the Amsoil 10-40 in my 2008 Vision and i am happy with the smoothness of the transmission operation. When i bought this bike and before i did any service on it the clutch would slip under full throttle in 3rd gear and up but I would just back off some and it would be fine but what I didnt like was the way it shifted, how hard it was to find neutral at a stop light without having to shut engine off and just the transmission felt not smooth like I was expecting.. First thing I did was research what Amsoil to use in this year and model and did an oil change with the 10-40 Amsoil you are asking about. After first 50 miles I noticed the transmission was smoother and shifts were easier and it started feeling like what I would expect from a luxury touring bike. Now granted, the clutch would still slip under w o t in higher gears like before but it didnt make it better or worse. I recently took bike apart to replace clutch and found clutch plates heavily worn (I bought bike used and it had at least 2 previous owners and without bike history cant elaborate on why so worn) so I replaced the worn parts and did another complete oil and filter change which (5 quarts of Amsoil 10-40 and a Amsoil filter shipped to my house at preferred customer price of $70.)wasnt due for another 1500+ miles but I wanted to start fresh. So, new clutch and Amsoil 10-40 full synthetic and using stock OEM clutch spring, the clutch no longer slips at full throttle in any gear and transmission shifts are smooth and positive and it is easier and I am able to put bike in neutral while stopped. Time will tell how the clutch will hold up ( as many years as I have driven bikes, I have never burned out a clutch) but in my opinion the Amsoil 10-40 improves the operation of the transmission and makes it well worth the price. Quality is remembered long after price is forgot!
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Jasper, MO | tralphaz - 2014-04-27 11:29 PM
Case in point:
How many times have I posted that users of Amsoil should NOT use the 20W-50 MCV oil in their Victory motorcycle??? I've warned about that many times. It is formulated for the wet clutches used in Harley and Buell bikes, but not Victory and the Japanese bikes. Neither Victory, nor the Japanese brands, is listed in the applications.
Ronnie
Funny, this from the Amsoil site: http://www.amsoil.com/AmsoilGarage/MotoLookup.aspx?url=2008+VICTORY...
BTW, the same 20W-50 is listed on the Harley page.
I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie |
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New Bohemia, VA | AnotherMotorSnakeOIL
I will admit that a full synthetic allowed me to go a few miles more between changes, until my clutch start slipping at around 98,000 on hard throttles. When I used ANY JASO Rated Synthetic, it gave me the same service, just as when I use a JASO Rate Semi-Synthetic gives me the same service.
RB, from a previous question - our roads are fine now. Trying to get all the sand washed off that is still around when they went overboard with our few "snow" days. |
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Pittsburgh, PA | i try not to even go by the terms synthetic or semi synthetic. For the longest time those terms have meant hardly anything...Its more about the additives. The word synthetic many years ago used to mean something... http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/defining-moment-synthetics-1-5-a-10215...
on a personal note, i would love to know what those oils had in it that YOUR vision doesnt like but others are just fine with? I completely believe you 110% in regards to your issues... no doubting it.. Stuff like this just really interests me thats all... similar to when you may read about how someones victory needed a trany replaced or at least a gear or what not.. it interests me as to what about THEIR transmission causes "issues/failure" where has others like yourself could reach 1,000,000 miles with no issues... =) |
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, IA | Amsoil aro |
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I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
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Jasper, MO | tralphaz - 2014-05-01 8:34 PM
I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
.
Like I said, that's screwed up and Amsoil needs to fix it.
Again, go look at the PRODUCT itself and see what applications are listed FOR THAT PRODUCT.
Ronnie |
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| rdbudd - 2014-05-01 7:16 PM
tralphaz - 2014-05-01 8:34 PM
I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
.
Like I said, that's screwed up and Amsoil needs to fix it.
Again, go look at the PRODUCT itself and see what applications are listed FOR THAT PRODUCT.
Ronnie
I have the product and nowhere on the jug does it say "do not use in Victory Motorcycles", it does say suitable for all wet clutch applications and I have a wet clutch in both my Victory's, I guess that means it's fine. |
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Jasper, MO | tralphaz - 2014-05-02 2:42 AM
rdbudd - 2014-05-01 7:16 PM
tralphaz - 2014-05-01 8:34 PM
I know. Amsoil needs a new webmaster. That's screwed up. Go look at the product itself and pay particular attention to the applications listed.
Ronnie
Here's the Amsoil Powersport application guide, http://www.amsoil.com/products/power_sports_guide.pdf
Victory M/C are listed on page 56 as group 1 which happens to have the MCF 10w-40 and MCV 20w-50 listed.
.
Like I said, that's screwed up and Amsoil needs to fix it.
Again, go look at the PRODUCT itself and see what applications are listed FOR THAT PRODUCT.
Ronnie
I have the product and nowhere on the jug does it say "do not use in Victory Motorcycles", it does say suitable for all wet clutch applications and I have a wet clutch in both my Victory's, I guess that means it's fine.
Does it say "suitable for all wet clutch applications", or does it say "suitable for all wet clutch applications calling for a 15W-50 or 20W-50 oil, such as Harley, Buell, Ducati, Aprila, BMW, Triumph". Victory does not call for either of those oils, and neither do the Japanese bikes. They are NOT listed in the applications listed for the product. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2090.pdf
Victory calls for a 20W-40 oil, or oils meeting that requirement.
Now, look at the 10W-40MCF. It says it is recommended for "all motorcycles" requiring a 10W-40 or 20W-40 oil, such as Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW, Husqvarna, VICTORY. http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2089.pdf
The bikes listed for the 20W-50MCV are different than those listed for the 10W-40MCF.
When it says "all motorcycles using a wet clutch", that is not the end of the story. The whole story is "all motorcycles using a wet clutch and calling for an oil meeting 10W-40 or 20W-40 requirements".
Nearly every instance I have ever heard about where a Victory owner had clutch slippage on Amsoil was those using the Harley spec 20W-50MCV, which IS NOT specifically recommended for use in Victory OR the Japanese brands.
You can't just look at the bottle and see the JASO-MA rating and think you're good to go, whether it's Amsoil or some other brand of oil. There are other more specific requirements than just that alone. There are differing types of wet clutch materials among different motorcycle brands, which have different oil requirements. That JASO-MA rating is just ONE of SEVERAL requirements an oil must meet. It is not the "end all, do all" stand alone requirement by itself.
It's not just Amsoil. It's all brands, such as Royal Purple and others too. People have had trouble with other brands besides Amsoil, because all they looked at was the JASO-MA rating and failed to look at the rest of the specifications, and just "assumed". That's operator error.
You have to read past the beginning of the sentence and the words "all motorcycles" and see the rest of the qualifications, which amount to "all motorcycles calling for oils meeting a particular specification". That is not the same thing as "ALL MOTORCYCLES".
It's your bike. If it ever starts slipping the clutch, you were warned to not use oil specifically formulated for Harleys in a Victory or Japanese bike. About 1 in 4 people who use the wrong oil (20W-50MCV) in a Victory have clutch slippage. Your chances are pretty good you'll never have a problem.
Ronnie
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New Bohemia, VA | I used AMSOIL 20/50 in June/July 2010 when I rode to CA due to the higher temps, 100+ nearly daily. When I returned I went back to 20/40 AMSOIL and eventually went to Rotella, all full synthetic. I never felt I had any issues with a full Syn until around the 98,000 and I precieved I was getting clutch slippage. At that time, for sanity sake, I returned to the semi-syn blend and the issue cleared up. While it all can be argued whether what did what and when, I prefer to use a recommended semi-syn blend here on out and forever more. Apparently I didn't pay attention to the labeling of the AMSOIL 20/50 and took the advise from a forum (?) that it would be okay to use. My last 58,000 miles has been on a semi-syn and I'm still on the original clutch, so I'm happy. |
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| Amsoil never changes color
Here is a year of reading about oil
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/ |
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Dallas, Texas | Still using and liking my 3 qts Brad Penn m/c 20W/50 and 1.5 qts Castrol full syn RS V-Twin 20W50 at each change. I call it a 'premium home made semi-syn'.
Edited by iluvink 2014-05-02 10:33 PM
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Jasper, MO | johnnyvision - 2014-05-02 6:25 PM
Amsoil never changes color
But, like most other oil brands, they do make specialized products for specific uses, with differing additive packages.
Amsoil 20W-50MCV is specifically formulated for the requirements set forth by the manufacturers of the brands they list for it, namely Harley, Buell, KTM, Ducati, BMW, and Triumph.
Why do you think they list only those brands for the MCV, or even go to the trouble to list any brands at all if it did not matter? Wouldn't they want to sell it to the owners of as many different brands as possible?
Amsoil 10W-40MCF is specifically formulated to meet the requirements set forth by the manufacturers of the brands they list for it, namely Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, BMW, Husqvarna, and Victory. The brands listed for the other oil are notably missing from the list.
Why do you think they list only those brands for that product, or even go to the trouble to list any brands at all, if "Amsoil never changes color"?
Why, when a poll was done asking about Amsoil use in Victory motorcycles, did virtually all the reported problems arise from the use of one Amsoil product in particular, the 20W-50MCV specifically, and not the other Amsoil products? Could it be because the MCV has additives that aren't recommended for the Victory or Japanese wet clutches, which is the reason they are not listed in the recommended applications for that particular product?
I'm a strong believer in using Amsoil, but I'm also a believer in using the correct product that is recommended for my bikes. That requires reading the manufacturers applications sheets for the particular products in question, and not just "assuming".
I linked to those applications sheets for your perusal and edification. Do with them as you wish.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2014-05-02 10:47 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Well stated Ronnie.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| I was one of the unfortunate souls that had clutch slip with amsoil 10-40 mcf. I will say that the slip occurred only when very aggressive riding, but that's how I like to ride. After going back to 10-40 t5 rotella slip has been gone. Bummer, I wanted amsoil to work for me for longer rides and intervals |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I use Amsoil 10/40 and ask them it does not change color or go black like other oil. You go to all clutch manufactures and they will tell you they are made to work with synthetic oils. Most guys have tried five different brands of oil and expect there clutch to work. From stock to big bore stroker motors never had a clutch go bad cause of oil.
I never under stood guy that mix oil weights guess they never have read about what oils will do.
I have only work on motors from balancing rods and fly wheels to building bikes for forty some years. I'm no rookie when it comes to motors and clutches.
If you were selling oil wouldn't say its specific for a brand of motor to get more sales. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Check the oil on the dipstick. If it's black, change the oil. Experts say this is a myth, as is the related notion that you can identify spent oil by smell. "That is old school," says Kristen Huff, vice president of Blackstone Laboratories in Fort Wayne, Indiana. "Oil is meant to get dark ? it means it's doing its job," she says. As GM's Matt Snider says in this video, different additives change the oil's color. The bottom line: Black oil still has plenty of life left in it.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/top-7-urban-legends-about-motor-oil...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Johnnyvision,
Please stop trying to "understand" everything. Nobody is trying to talk anybody into anything. Simply answering questions. You do what you like and everyone else will do the same. Nobody is trying to recruit you or anyone else to be a oil minion. Nobody here is a idiot and we all make our own research and use our experiences to come up with our plan. As far as mixing I'll take the advice of the Shell chemist over what you or I know, and to say I must not have read what oils do is a pompous asshole thing to say and typical of a message board dbag, I have read and researched and that why I sought the advice of and posted the response of the shell chemist, if you can't "understand" that I can't help you and don't give a shit. If you can't "understand" why I don't use expensive oil it's because it's the only oil that caused my clutch to slip, that should be easy to "understand". That is awesome that some have not seen this and I am jealous.
Edited by jeffmack 2014-05-04 8:41 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 155
Victoria Tx, TX United States | I have spoke to several "sales" and "engineers" @ shows and shops and phone... They ALL recommend their product!! UNTILL I say Victory... Had 1 say do not use our oil. Then asked me questions.. They may soon will have an oil for us riders. OTHERS I will ask ask ask hole them.. They said 20/40 is propitiatory and Polaris is KNOWN for this. We recommend 10/40 for your bike do not use the 50 wt. Your engine is not designed for it in the long run issues will arise. The 40wt will handle all the heat PLUS it match the factory 40wt requirements. Castrol does a semi synth. I use Maxima Extra 4 10/40 Synth. AND most likely go over to Suzuki 10/40 Synth. Both rated JASO MA. Maxima did tell me their oil will not effect my clutch. BASIC diff of oils Synth will flow easier and cuts heat and engines will last longer. Dino will flow less and less heat taken and engines will not last as long. I JUST LOVE THESE OIL SPATS!!
Edited by el spanky 2014-05-05 11:50 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 132
Durango, Colorado | jeffmack - 2014-05-04 7:28 AM Johnnyvision, Please stop trying to "understand" everything. Nobody is trying to talk anybody into anything. Simply answering questions. You do what you like and everyone else will do the same. Nobody is trying to recruit you or anyone else to be a oil minion. Nobody here is a idiot and we all make our own research and use our experiences to come up with our plan. As far as mixing I'll take the advice of the Shell chemist over what you or I know, and to say I must not have read what oils do is a pompous asshole thing to say and typical of a message board dbag, I have read and researched and that why I sought the advice of and posted the response of the shell chemist, if you can't "understand" that I can't help you and don't give a shit. If you can't "understand" why I don't use expensive oil it's because it's the only oil that caused my clutch to slip, that should be easy to "understand". That is awesome that some have not seen this and I am jealous. AAaaawwwww SNAP ! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | paulhu - 2014-05-05 2:14 PM AAaaawwwww SNAP ! It may be interesting to note I was using 20w50 Amsoil when I rolled through Durango in 2010. Did you see me? I stopped at the Super Wal-Mart to get some batteries for my camera. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 132
Durango, Colorado | I think I DID see you, weren't you that other hansome devil on that other really cool bike? Seriously though, next time through here give me a heads up and I'll treat you to some of the local color. I'm actually a little hurt you didn't call me the last time. WTF  Hope you rode some of the passes! paulhu |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I rolled 160 from I25 to just the otherside of Tuba City on my way to the Grand Canyon. I rolled over Wolf Creek Pass, which is up on the Great Divide. Fantastic ride through the plains. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Brad Penn oil is awesome. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
| Every new bike I have owned got Amsoil Full Syn at 500 miles. Never a problem or issue. My transmission never slip and they shift like greased velvet. Period. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| CaptDenny - 2014-12-23 9:05 PM Every new bike I have owned got Amsoil Full Syn at 500 miles. Never a problem or issue. My transmission never slip and they shift like greased velvet. Period. I don't think Amsoil rec amends putting in there oil till motor is broke in so that would be after 25000 miles |
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Cruiser
Posts: 161
Albuquerque NM | I would like to thank everyone one here for the great information regarding the additives for our wet clutches, and I will make sure to watch that information like a hawk when I'm picking out my next oil. I have been using Lucas motorcycle full synthetic, and I haven't had an issue. But I would like to share a story about my 1950 Chevy truck with the 235 inline six cylinder. When I was still running dino juice in it I would shut it off on a hot summer day and watch the H2O gauge shoot all the way to pegged. It wasn't a big deal because as soon as the engine was running again the temp came right back down.
Then I switched to synthetic, and in similar circumstances the temp would only rise 10-15 degrees. That's when I knew that a quality synthetic was different than a quality petroleum oil.
Just my $0.02. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Still using and liking my 3 qts Brad Penn m/c 20W/50 and 1.5 qts Castrol full syn RS V-Twin 20W50 at each change. I call it a 'premium home made semi-syn'. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | whats synthetic oil ? is there any advantages do using it? who makes the best oil? .... ( as i hide under my bed trembling in fear..) |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | You need to stir that pot with a bigger spoon. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | just for Victory!
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I think 20w40 syntactic is to thick for our clutch's. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | .................... I'm STILL alive, Guys 'n Gals. .... and you're still talking OIL ! And CT's ...
SHEESH
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | donetracey - 2015-01-27 12:19 AM
.................... I'm STILL alive, Guys 'n Gals. .... and you're still talking OIL ! And CT's ...
SHEESH
Go back to your martini's... you crazy Canuck.
:-)
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