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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I won't tell you why I was at the Harley dealer, but when I went there, I just had to look. I'll admit it, they did some subtle changes but I reallllllly like the newer look, and the price tag ain't bad. I didn't look at any of the new smaller bikes, you know the water-cooled ones, I didn't think about it at the time. However, the pictures that I have seen, I like them too. After I was there, I went to the Susuki-Yamaha-Honda-Kawasaki-Polaris (Victory is under the Polaris name) Dealer. They have a very sweet line up of the Cross bikes, about 7, and one 2014 Vision. Naturally I gravitated to the burnt orange Vision and if I was yet ready to buy I would of bought it. But I have to complain a little, with the black cowl piece really draws out the very poor fit and finish of this bike. I know I don't like to get on this topic, but it made the flow of the front look waving, like something was just not matching up. While the Vision is still my only rock-bottom choice, Harley still has Victory over clean looking details. But I've always said, I've got a go bike, not a show bike. Me think Victory needs to get serious about the details if they ever want to be considered a serious contender. My babble is done.
Edited by varyder 2014-01-18 6:56 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 523
seattle, wa | I doubt you will get an argument from anybody.
The details on the HD are top notch.
The details on the Vics......not so good. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Just take one out for a ride and see how important fit and finish to a rider really is. 2014 Harleys put out a whopping 76 hp and 94 tq. While I wish fit n finish was perfect. Nothing makes me smile more than my 110 hp and 111 tq on my 18,000 2008 vision with a 1100.00 investment to kevinx. It's all about what important to you. If fit, finish, idle sound, and how good the bike looks outside of a bar Harley's are for you. If your a rider who appreciates a performing, most comfortable touring bike out there your a vision man. My bike now has 80000 problem free miles, fit n finish be damned. I didn't buy this bike to impress anyone but me, and she still does. Sometimes a Harley or GW will step up on the road and they get to be impressed watching my tail lights. : ) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | Just because Victory has a more powerful, more comfortable ride, that doesn't mean they shouldn't improve if they want to stay in the game. There are long time Victory owners who have moved on to other brands because of fit/finish issues and/or the Vic corporate attitude. Maybe Vic will thrive without any changes however I think, without some serious changes, they'll go the way of the dodo bird. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 111
| Just for giggles, ask them what it takes ($) to change the belt on one. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | I went to a local motorcycle show on Saturday in Springfield, MA. Decent size show with HD and Victory setup side by side. Both of them had the largest booths/exhibit space. Guess who's had the most traffic??? Hint, the one that doesn't have a Willie heading up their design department |
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Cruiser
Posts: 52
The Great Northwet | Just had the chance to ride a 2014 Street Glide while on vacation in Kona. Put on 380 miles. The 2014 103 and trani are nice but run out of torque around 3500-4000. They still shake the crap out of you. The front end nose dives so bad/drastically I almost lost control. Handling was ok but soft when I got into some twisties?enough that I couldn't trust it to really ride aggresively. The combo nav/radio/info system is pretty nice. Wind management on this model was non existent. One would have to buy all the avaialble lowers and deflectors to even start to get any wind off of you. It was so bad that anytime over 30 mph my head and helmet just vibrated in the wind.
Although it was great to be able to ride a bike on vacation but wouldn't trade my Vision for any of the HD line. Fit and finish don't do shit for you when you're tryin to ride?..Just my opinion |
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Glendale, AZ United States | My brother bought a new 2013 road glide custom in the denim about 4 months ago, which to this day is bone stock. Beautiful bike with regard to fit/finish, but it is now 5000 miles later and he is already having issues even though he did everything he was supposed to do with the 500 mile break in period and nothing but premium gas and HD synthetic motor oil changes. He voiced his concerns at the 5K service this past week at the dealer. One thing I have to say with regard to HD dealer is they promptly took care of all the issues without any charge to him, but this included a new front tire and replacing the steering head bearing due to significant front end vibration he was experiencing, which seemed to take care of it for now. That's not the end of it. He's having a significant amount of valve train noise also, which may include a possible engine swap/top end rebuild in the near future per the dealer feedback. He's heavy-handed like me, but still absolutely no reason to be experiencing these issues this early on.
Fit and Finish vs mechanical issues? No comparison there even though the fit and finish on the Vic absolutely stinks and Victory didn't seem to pick it up one bit since the Vision roll out. If anything, it has continued to get worse. Yeah, I'm all about utility and function also as opposed to appearance, but keep in mind that if you bought a new VV you paid in access of 20k or roughly the cost of a new Camry, Accord, or Altima for a frame, engine, tranny, two tires, brakes, and plastic. I would like to have the complete package, but it will never happen with the Vision in my opinion since Vic doesn't gives a **** about rider feedback. I think HD has nothing to worry about long-term and people will continue to buy the outdated retro bikes because for most "weekend outlaw doo rag" riders it's all about fit/finish and the bling bling to begin with since HD can't match up on paper in the meat and potatoes department, which really doesn't matter or HD would have been bankrupt years ago. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | like has been said, Victory is for riders, HD is for owners |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Monkeyman - 2014-01-19 2:59 PM
Just because Victory has a more powerful, more comfortable ride, that doesn't mean they shouldn't improve if they want to stay in the game. There are long time Victory owners who have moved on to other brands because of fit/finish issues and/or the Vic corporate attitude. Maybe Vic will thrive without any changes however I think, without some serious changes, they'll go the way of the dodo bird.
A good point. Will Polaris notice ?? Who knows........... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I own two Visions, so you know I really like em. I've previously owned ten Harleys and a few sportbikes, but that being said it's mainly because I like the more modern and way more easily hopped up engine design of the Victory 106. The wind protection is the best and I like the styling also. However if Harley comes out with a larger version of it's new SOHC watercooled engine say around the 100 cu inch range and puts it into a revamped RoadGlide I'll be going to take a look.................. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 155
Victoria Tx, TX United States | Chevy v. Ford??. Riders v. Posers?.. OMG????? Pick your juice!! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 251
Mechanicsville, VA United States | This was funny to me: I was coming home from work today and I see motorcycle lights coming up behind me in the left lane on 95 in Richmond Va. I'm in the middle lane driving my truck and I've got a Victory sticker in the back glass and a Victory trailer hitch emblem, well the guy on a motorcycle (new Hd) pulls up beside me we're running 63mph and I look over at him and he points to the Harley name decal on his tank.well I just laughed and he pulled away.(didn't sound to powerful either)
I thought to myself well that was pretty cool of him, he thinks HD is great and I think Victory is great. It's just the way it is. I've never liked Hd bikes, don't really know why other then the arrogance of the people that ride them, as though they have something better then anyone else. I work at a very large Plant, 2200 people and on pretty days the motorcycle parking lot is full of Hd's and a few other named bikes, the way they walk away from their bikes it makes me want to puke...so I guess that's why I don't like them.....but then again I've seen the same thing from BMW guys and Goldwing guys and even Victory guys.....why can't we just ride and enjoy the ride. Buy what you want and not be an a$$ about it...your bike is not the best thing that ever happened to the earth! Lose the attitude guys! I guess the reason I don't like HD is there's more people riding them than any other motorcycle brand and I don't want to mistake my bike for someone elses in the parking lot........ Anyway just saying!
Edited by diamonbird 2014-01-20 6:20 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | diamonbird - 2014-01-20 6:18 PM
I guess the reason I don't like HD is there's more people riding them than any other motorcycle brand and I don't want to mistake my bike for someone elses in the parking lot........ Anyway just saying!
Made me laugh! 
Ronnie
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | My mom said something when I was a kid that I thought made no sense. Now, it is too true: "Choose your enemies well for that's who you'll most likely become." |
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Cruiser
Posts: 251
Mechanicsville, VA United States | You must have disliked somebody really bad SongFan! Did you become them? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I've spent my whole life bashing a certain American brand because they are so afraid to join the 21st century. Now I ride a 2014 American bike with spoked wheels, tubed white-wall tires and leather fringe. Just sayin.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | I love the way Harleys look and I love Victory. First everyone and their brother where I live has a street glide. My best friend spent $1000's on his just so he could tell his apart from the others. It's a sea you get lost in. Victory is still more interesting and rare and no one mistakes my bike for theirs. I'll echo my earlier sentiments. Cost of ownership! ALL OF MY HD RIDING FRIENDS and I mean all of them (except the ones that refuse to ride and have less than 10K on them) have had major repair work done, break downs far away from home, etc. And these are modern HD's not panheads or shovels. I know anything can break down and strand you but I just quietly survey these reliability issues real live experiences with my friends and come to the conclusion that HD cannot hold up to what I require of a bike. (I require high mileage service and zero repair expense) Almost 71K on my Vision and nothing but tires and oil (and brake pads). I could afford to own an HD , I just can't afford to ride (repair/service) one. That's the other thing. OIll changes , belt changes are easier on the Vic .I've never changed the belt on my Vic but you can do it on the side of the road. Hd oil has multiple drain points for oil change, and belt change requires much more disassembly of the bike on HD. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Lovettsville, VA United States | O.K. been riding for 40+ years. I had several H-D's Agree the new ones along with those that are 2,3 ,4 years older look and sound fantastic. My personal favorite was a 2001 Road King Classic. However the cost of owning and maintaining an H-D was always a thorn in my side. The Victory Vision so far(2012) has not come any where near the cost of the H-D. My wife and I are retired and as they say ,on a fixed income, the idea of paying out 300.00 plus dollars for a 5k service and the inflated prices for the parts or extras to make the bike more personalized is just not in our budget. I do agree that Polaris needs to address the fit and finish issues with their bikes. With particular attention to the front fender issues! We love the way the Vision rides and handles and when or if we manage to wear out our Spacebike there will be another Victory in our garage!
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | The last service I had done on my HD, other than warranty work, only cost me about $240. I guess you live somewhere with even higher costs than what bothered me hognit. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | jeffmack - 2014-01-19 1:43 PM
Just take one out for a ride and see how important fit and finish to a rider really is. 2014 Harleys put out a whopping 76 hp and 94 tq. While I wish fit n finish was perfect. Nothing makes me smile more than my 110 hp and 111 tq on my 18,000 2008 vision with a 1100.00 investment to kevinx. It's all about what important to you. If fit, finish, idle sound, and how good the bike looks outside of a bar Harley's are for you. If your a rider who appreciates a performing, most comfortable touring bike out there your a vision man. My bike now has 80000 problem free miles, fit n finish be damned. I didn't buy this bike to impress anyone but me, and she still does. Sometimes a Harley or GW will step up on the road and they get to be impressed watching my tail lights. : )
i surely dont buy a touring bike to make it as fast as possible?? if i want speed ill just jump on a little 600 or 900 cc sports bike that would destroy a cam'd vision and cost alot less.. for me when i went looking for a TOURING MOTORCYCLE, i went for comfort, radio, cruise control 6 speed, lockable storage. while performance is all good. i have Zero need to drop a 4 digit number into a "touring motorcycle" to get to the red lights first.. Those 2014 HD touring machines have some seriously nice Radios and integrated gps units. do i want one,? no? but i respect what they have done. they have made a very classy touring machine. at least in the screaming eagle version. and forget about the argument over what cost more. some HD guys dont care.. victory doesnt give you those type of choices... Victory doesnt have any special unit for higher end detail.. i saw a green 2014 Screaming Weasel (lol) touring bike and the paint alone was amazing.. and to be honest. so was the wheels and chrome..
http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/images/2014-Motorcycles/...
Edited by Arkainzeye 2014-01-21 4:58 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Agree with the first part of Arkainzeye's post. The Vision is a tourer. Not a Rocket. |
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Glendale, AZ United States | XRsteve - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM
I own two Visions, so you know I really like em. I've previously owned ten Harleys and a few sportbikes, but that being said it's mainly because I like the more modern and way more easily hopped up engine design of the Victory 106. The wind protection is the best and I like the styling also. However if Harley comes out with a larger version of it's new SOHC watercooled engine say around the 100 cu inch range and puts it into a revamped RoadGlide I'll be going to take a look..................
It will happen in due time. They have to bring the road glide back and on "steroids" since it is their only frame mounted fairing bike and the only model even remotely worth looking at in the HD lineup as far as I'm concerned. |
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Glendale, AZ United States | I wholeheartedly agree. Ride what you want. Just because you are Catholic doesn't mean everybody else has to be.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | On first look, the Harley seem to a solid foundation. As far as a motorcycle goes, as far as looks of the Harley I was ready to hope on and ride out the door. Knowing what I know though, I would still ride away on a Vision before I would the Harley. I rode a Harley a few years ago on a demo ride and wasn't too overly impressed. I could have gotten used to a few things, but overall I would be wishing I was riding my Vision. Same when I test rode the Indian, the best part of the whole test ride trip was riding my Vision the four hours there and four hours back. If Victory would step up the game a tad on the little details of the bikes, they'd be spanking Harley, or at least having them run scared. I feel like they just sit back and say, "Go ahead, Victory, you fill in the gap for those who wish they had a Harley but can't afford one." I see the perception that Victory competes more with the Japanese tourers and cruisers, especially when the top dog says it. It would take less of Harley to move into slapping a little more power in their bikes then Victory to step up the game in fit and finish. I hear Harley has raised the bar on handling and comfort on the showroom bikes so what's next? They could just be waking up. When I looked at the price tag on the Harley that caught my eye, I said, "Is that all?" I looked at it a second time when I left the boutique, but quickly came back to reality when I stopped by the Victory dealer. I still came away knowing that Harley has their owners pumped full of brand loyalty. As a post note, at the Harley boutique, my wife and I had a young lady standing in the shadows ready to meet our every concern. Outstanding salesmanship, never pushy, ever helpful. We even returned a second time to double check something and was greeted promptly by the same young lady. When we were at the Susuki-Yamaha-Honda-Kawasaki-Polaris (Victory is under the Polaris name) Dealership, it's "what's up bub, holler if you need anything." Come on Victory, time to step up the game. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
Virginia Beach, VA | varyder, you were in Prince George, Virginia. My buddy on his XCT and I were up there this past friday from Va Beach having our tires changed. I know what you mean about the details of the Visions. Mine is the same way, I have to keep tweaking things to stop squeaks and to line up panels and stop rubbing, etc... But, the ride is so good that I find it easy to overlook those things. Just put a Lloyds timing gear on it last week, low end is outstanding compared to original gear. The Harley dealer down the street has it going on, too bad these Victory dealers can't do the same. I love the looks of the Harley's but the mechanics of them puts me off. I like being able to change my own oil. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Lovettsville, VA United States | H-D of Frederick= 337.00 for 5k service. They said it was to check and or adjust an awful lot of points on the bike and retorque many more items than I can remember. As the miles are added to the bike ,the service prices go up as well. Could be a safety issue or a wear issue . When asked for specifics I got what seemed like the runaround or the standard canned answers from the service manager. The Vision we now have has not incurred as much in service expenses yet, however we have yet to log a lot of miles because of the mid atlantic weather. We are looking forward to the riding season and are planning many long rides. Only time will tell how long the honeymoon will last with our Vision. P.S. We bought our bike in mid Oct. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | I can say from cross-shopping the touring HD offerings with everything else on the market, I chose the Vision because it won fair-and-square. That is for me who did multiple HD bikes along with more performance based bikes; I still have and LOVE my Kawasaki Concours so my priorities tend to be more functional.
The new HD line (including the 2014 bikes) are beautiful. The accessories are sublime, the controls just "work" and are perfectly integrated into the bike- nothing seems like an afterthought or like and add-on. The fit of the pieces and panels are great from what I've seen and there is a reason HD is the industry standard. It really pisses me off that companies like Victory can take an arguably superior design in many respects and drop the ball with the details. I understand the laws of diminishing returns but "good enough" is a crappy way of doing business and kills brand loyalty; something HD has LOCKED for most.
Victory (Polaris) loses quite a bit in final fit and finish and is decimated with support and dealers, both in service and the network. For me, it came down to the riding experience with the Vision (went in initially to look at the Cross bikes). I have to say that the individualism of the Vision has become icing on the cake. I love my Vision but I will admit that I wish there was more aftermarket support and that that there were fewer flimsy plastic tabs BUT I these are niggles that I can work with.
If, and that is a big if HD improves the handling and powerplant with their touring bikes (Road Glide) then I may reconsider. The frame redesign a few years ago was a positive step but it was needed changes to a poor design.
With that, HD makes beautiful and classic bikes that I still love and would not slight anyone that opts for them. I just enjoy the ride and performance Victory offers and really like that my Vision stands out in the crowd.
I really wish Victory would step up their game in support and attention to detail. If they would, I would consider replacing my '13 Vision with an improved version in a couple of years but I just see them half-assing it for the foreseeable future when they could hit it out of the park...
/r
Allen |
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
CASTRO VALLEY, CA United States | Allen, I totally agree with you about Victory's fit and finish, but maybe Ma Vic doesn't want to put the money into Vic because that's what Indian is for. Indian is the brand to be known for their fit and finish and attention to details. As comfortable as the Vision is, it doesn't have the power of a sports tourer, and I've been looking into getting a Kawi Concours. How do you like yours? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 77
Bainville, & Mesa, AZ, MT | Allen B, you hit it out of the park. |
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Glendale, AZ United States | Allen_B - 2014-01-28 4:08 PM
I can say from cross-shopping the touring HD offerings with everything else on the market, I chose the Vision because it won fair-and-square. That is for me who did multiple HD bikes along with more performance based bikes; I still have and LOVE my Kawasaki Concours so my priorities tend to be more functional.
The new HD line (including the 2014 bikes) are beautiful. The accessories are sublime, the controls just "work" and are perfectly integrated into the bike- nothing seems like an afterthought or like and add-on. The fit of the pieces and panels are great from what I've seen and there is a reason HD is the industry standard. It really pisses me off that companies like Victory can take an arguably superior design in many respects and drop the ball with the details. I understand the laws of diminishing returns but "good enough" is a crappy way of doing business and kills brand loyalty; something HD has LOCKED for most.
Victory (Polaris) loses quite a bit in final fit and finish and is decimated with support and dealers, both in service and the network. For me, it came down to the riding experience with the Vision (went in initially to look at the Cross bikes). I have to say that the individualism of the Vision has become icing on the cake. I love my Vision but I will admit that I wish there was more aftermarket support and that that there were fewer flimsy plastic tabs BUT I these are niggles that I can work with.
If, and that is a big if HD improves the handling and powerplant with their touring bikes (Road Glide) then I may reconsider. The frame redesign a few years ago was a positive step but it was needed changes to a poor design.
With that, HD makes beautiful and classic bikes that I still love and would not slight anyone that opts for them. I just enjoy the ride and performance Victory offers and really like that my Vision stands out in the crowd.
I really wish Victory would step up their game in support and attention to detail. If they would, I would consider replacing my '13 Vision with an improved version in a couple of years but I just see them half-assing it for the foreseeable future when they could hit it out of the park...
/r
Allen
I agree with you. A few friends and I just did the Phoenix International Motorcycle show this past weekend. You could seriously get lost in the big blue sea stadium parking lot full of HD street glides with the majority of them being in vivid black of course and I'm not even talking about what it's like here during Arizona bike week. Needless to say I didn't have a problem finding my bike in that ocean. To each his own, but I will most likely not purchase another Vision due to Victory not picking it up across the board with fit/finish for starters in my opinion. Since the Vision would be the only bike I would own in the Victory lineup that only leaves one thing and that's to go elsewhere with my next purchase down the road. Brand loyalty is a biaach. Its like going to the same and only restaurant for years only to figure out they had better food and at a cheaper price down the road, but you were too pig-headed to check it out. Since I don't ride the "BRAND" for fear of pigeon holding myself I will be looking elsewhere. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | YENRABSRIDE - 2014-01-29 4:02 AM
Allen, I totally agree with you about Victory's fit and finish, but maybe Ma Vic doesn't want to put the money into Vic because that's what Indian is for. Indian is the brand to be known for their fit and finish and attention to details. As comfortable as the Vision is, it doesn't have the power of a sports tourer, and I've been looking into getting a Kawi Concours. How do you like yours?
That speaks to my point- making a product "good enough" is BS at these price points. They may want to take Indian to a new level (and price point) compared to Victory but that is speculation. They are two distinctly different markets and when (not if) they half-ass Indian with quality and poor dealer support both will suffer forget succeed.
As for the Concours, mine is a 2009- the only year for the Candy Diamond red and the last year before the refresh. I absolutly love it! Comfortable, descent range and runs like a banshee!
The mild redesign in 2010 did bring some improvements (especially heat management) but I am not a fan of the current styling. Add to that the minor heat issues on the 08-09 bikes are very easliy remidied and they have a very useful storage compartment on top of the tank. The newer ones shifted that to the side and added heated grips- the storage compartment is smaller and pretty useless and I added my own heated grips!
If I was forced to choose between the Concours and the Vision, it would be a very tough choice- both do what they do VERY well, they just do them differently. The Vision handles well and is a large comfortable tourer. We went with it as the best performing touring bike with all the bells and whistles for 2-up riding and I love the fact that I can pull the trunk, slick it down and make for a very comfortable bar-hopper or day rider.
The Concours is a functional ROCKET with exceptional storage in the removable side bags, a great riding position and makes for a formitable canyon carver and an interstate assault vehicle! It is not the choice for touring (no radio, no installed trunk, more upright euro-style riding position) 2-up specifically for my wife. If I am riding alone and with no other bikes, I love the Concours especially on the back roads. For commuting, it can get you in trouble- my commute is about 30 miles a day and mainly interstate. The problem with the Concours is it is quite content effortly cruising in triple digits if you are not careful!
/r
Allen
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Cruiser
Posts: 119
CASTRO VALLEY, CA United States | ALLEN B - Supernice! Me like! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | That Vision is gorgeous! Victory will prosper and Indian will prosper and so will their respective riders  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
Clinton, CT | I need some new pics with the D&D exhaust- subtle change with the reverse slash but changes the girl's tail-end for the better!
Thanks again!
/r
Allen |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | While I like all bikes basically, the vision doesn't seem toyious as others do. I love the clean smooth lines and have been complemented many times of the same. Some have tougher it was a custom. My point of the post is pointing out that many are engrained with what a motorcycle is supposed to look like and then the subtle details matter. And if you're blinded by details, function loses meaning. Add details and function, then people will notice. The Vision has it in styling, comfort, function, and ride, but lacks in detail and tradition. Even lacking the details, I can't see me riding anything else but a Vision or another Victory. |
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