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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Hendersonville, NC | i am finally getting all my goodies i am adding the ats, top lloydz filter, front k&n filter having a dyno done but my question to all is which one do i go with , vfc3 or the pcv, what are pros and cons what would be the benefit of one or the other, my appointment is in couple weeks at fall beach rally. will the deccel popping go away and i also noticed sunday on our ride some grey powdery sout on the exhaust caps, she runs fine so im not sure what the powdery substance is exactly maybe fuel not burning off??? also adding the 1/4 turn throttle for even better throttle response, later i will add a better cam but for now this is all please and thank you for all comments to help with decision | |
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | If you are going to add cams later you'll need the PC V. When I was at Lloydz debating to change my PC V to VFC III, he stated I needed the PC V with my setup. My setup is below on my signature. So I would go PC V, but don't do auto-tune. I got rid of my auto-tune. One less electronic thing to worry about going bad. Mine went on me... | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | With cams, intake, pipes, and timing gear. All you need is a VFC3. I have installed a couple hundred of these set ups, and prolly 50 with PCV. To date I have not seen any significant improvement with a PCV in this configuration. No better performance, mileage, or drivability gains. If you want to go big bore. There is something to be had, but otherwise IMHO a PCV just adds cost, complication, and a higher failure rate to the equation | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Hendersonville, NC | visionary that is why im asking cause your signature is so true, i have read a bunch and heard many comments but have never asked myself yet, I have owned many bikes all different kinds but have never wanted to do anything to motor, just looks, now i want to get max performance cause i already have a good looking machine and real comfortable, everyone that has answered mp threads about performance all came up with the same set up except the fuel controller didnt know if the extra 120$ was worth it or needed for the pcv, i appreciate the info. Go Gators
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Those that get the vfc, usually get the Lloydz ECU flash as well. The PCV guys may or may not. So cost is about the same. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | bigd2013vv - 2013-09-17 4:33 PM
visionary that is why im asking cause your signature is so true, i have read a bunch and heard many comments but have never asked myself yet, I have owned many bikes all different kinds but have never wanted to do anything to motor, just looks, now i want to get max performance cause i already have a good looking machine and real comfortable, everyone that has answered mp threads about performance all came up with the same set up except the fuel controller didnt know if the extra 120$ was worth it or needed for the pcv, i appreciate the info. Go Gators
Not just the $120, but another couple hundred on dyno tuning or another $300 for a auto-tune. Gotta love a person that ends a post with Go Gators!
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Hendersonville, NC | so if i get the vfc3 i don't need a dyno tune everything just works itself out plug n play
love me some gators
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Hendersonville, NC | nozzledog what is this ecu flash you mention and do you agree as well to go with the vfc3, after all said and done this is the set up
1- victory stage 1 map download
2- lloydz top filter
3- front k&n filter
4- lloydz ats
5- vfc3
like i said ive never done any of this performance work and i just want to make a wise decision would i need anything else | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 37
Dayton, OH | With cams, intake, pipes, and timing gear. All you need is a VFC3. I have installed a couple hundred of these set ups, and prolly 50 with PCV. To date I have not seen any significant improvement with a PCV in this configuration. No better performance, mileage, or drivability gains. If you want to go big bore. There is something to be had, but otherwise IMHO a PCV just adds cost, complication, and a higher failure rate to the equation
Not just the $120, but another couple hundred on dyno tuning or another $300 for a auto-tune. Gotta love a person that ends a post with Go Gators!
KevinX - Can you explain the difference in how the controllers operate?? I'm not familiar with the VFC3 but I have a PC3 on my ZX12r. My understanding on how the PC3 works is that both the ignition timing and fuel maps can be altered at different throttle positions and RPMs which allows you to optimize air/fuel ratio or maximize HP or both?? Additionally, are you implying that using the VFC3 eliminates the need to dyno tune?? | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | The Lloydz ECU reprogram extends the RPMs to 6400, advances the timing and eliminates the 120mph governor.
I can't find it on Lloydz website right now, but you send him your ECU and about $205 and he reprograms it.
The VFC3 is easier to use and onboard programming can get you in the ballpark if you don't want to spend the money for a dyno tune.
VFC - $269
ECU - $205
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Total $474
(If you get the ECU reprogrammed, you may need to back your ATS down to compensate.)
The PCV will allow you to extend the rpm range by 500 RPMs (more if you want to submit a writtten request to Dynojet). This will get you to around 5750 in 1st, 6000 RPM in 2nd - 5th and 5050 RPM in 6th. 500 more if you request the 1000 RPM extender.
The PCV requires a map to be programmed into the unit that gives fuel values in 250 RPM increments at 10 different throttle positions for both cylinders. This can be done for each gear if you want as well. This is not something you can do on your own, but there are a few options.
$0 - download maps off of Dynojets website that are similar to your setup. These will get you in the ballpark as well.
$200+ Pay for a Dynotune (must be redone if you change anything on the bike).
$290 - add the Autotune (AT300). This will adjust the fuel map while you ride based on the air fuel ratios it senses using wideband O2 sensors. Once you've been riding for a while, you can set the fuel map and turn the Autotune off. You can then sell it if you want, or keep it for any further mod adjustments you might make.
Since you are adding Lloydz ATS, you may want to take advantage of the PCVs ability to change timing as well. If you advance your ATS and start getting pinging above 2250 RPMs, you can back the timing back down with the PCV instead of changing the ATS.
PCV - $295
AT300 - $290
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Total $585
Difference - $116
As you can see, the PCV can be more expensive but has far more ways of adjusting things, far more than you will ever need. But it can also be cheaper too (if you want higher rpms without the ecu reprogram).
I honestly, think it's a toss up between the two VFC/ecu vs. PCV/AT.
If you don't plan on getting the ECU reprogrammed, then the PCV would probably be better.
Since you have the Stage 1 flash, you may also already have more fuel than needed in some areas. The PCV will reduce fuel in those cells, the VFC will not. There is talk of a VFC4 now that will.
Edited by Nozzledog 2013-09-17 11:05 PM
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | And to throw another option in the mix,
At the AVR Victory-Riders.com Tech Talk, Lloyd mentioned he will be coming out with a new VFC that will auto tune instantaneously. No word on specs or price but maybe worth a call to Lloyd.
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | BlackMandingoWarrior - 2013-09-17 11:31 PM
With cams, intake, pipes, and timing gear. All you need is a VFC3. I have installed a couple hundred of these set ups, and prolly 50 with PCV. To date I have not seen any significant improvement with a PCV in this configuration. No better performance, mileage, or drivability gains. If you want to go big bore. There is something to be had, but otherwise IMHO a PCV just adds cost, complication, and a higher failure rate to the equation
Not just the $120, but another couple hundred on dyno tuning or another $300 for a auto-tune. Gotta love a person that ends a post with Go Gators!
KevinX - Can you explain the difference in how the controllers operate?? I'm not familiar with the VFC3 but I have a PC3 on my ZX12r. My understanding on how the PC3 works is that both the ignition timing and fuel maps can be altered at different throttle positions and RPMs which allows you to optimize air/fuel ratio or maximize HP or both?? Additionally, are you implying that using the VFC3 eliminates the need to dyno tune??........................
VFC is load based and looks at what is happening at the injector. PC is RPM/Throttle based, and makes the same changes all the time. Accell, decell, cruise. Does not matter. PC alwatys gives the same throttle for a specific range. Does not tun dynamically as the VFC does.
As for dyno tuning. There may be a little that can be wrung out of a properly set VFC on the dyno, but the average person can set one up. With a little open road, and an easy half hour of tinkering
Edited by kevinx 2013-09-19 1:30 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 523
seattle, wa | With the VFC is it possible to "choke" the bike enough to kill it?
I am familiar with carbs on the older cars, turn the screw in and get an immediate reaction.
Can you feel an immediate change in the bike if you were riding down the road and made adjustments? | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | rwilly - 2013-09-19 10:00 PM
With the VFC is it possible to "choke" the bike enough to kill it?
I am familiar with carbs on the older cars, turn the screw in and get an immediate reaction.
Can you feel an immediate change in the bike if you were riding down the road and made adjustments?
Absolutly | |
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vfc 111 or pcv