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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | I have a 2009 Vision Tour. New to me. I've only had it about two weeks and it runs fine.
However, I have already ordered the Lloydz ATS timing wheel. As I read further, I realize that there are different cams for different models of Victory motorcycles, right?
My question, before I open the package when it arrives, is, will I get the intended benefits of the ATS wheel on a Vision motor??
thanks - new guy, KS. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Phenix City AL. | Yes you will get the intended benefits, As I know it the motors are the same in all bikes ( of the same year and displacement) might as well order the cams too LOL. |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | Yes, It is intended for all Victory motors from 99-up. I installed it in my 2010 Vision and noticed quicker throttle response throughout the rpm range. Seat-of-the-pants analysis says the bike is faster off the line as well as roll-on acceleration. Some have claimed better MPG but I haven't yet gone through a full tank yet since installing it. Installation took 10min. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | thanks guys. looking forward to it |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| simple to do take about twenty minuets if you have all your tools on the floor.
Put towel over pipes and un bolt floor boards. I use a SAE allen socket.
Pull dip stick and put rag in hole.
Take timing cover bolts out and very easy pull on cover. Maybe old gasket will not break.
Un do center bolt 13mm socket.
Put on new wheel and add blue loctite to bolt.
Toque to 17ft pounds.
Wipe gasket surfaces clean and put cover back on.
Tighten cover bolts is a X pattern.
You might loose three drops of oil.
Your done clean up and ride. It will take maybe twenty miles and no more popping.
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| sorry i for got when righting wheel you will have to stick screw driver between teeth and catch motor bolt in back.
You will get to 70 very quick and the motor becomes very smooth. You should even pick up some gas mileage |
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Cruiser
Posts: 251
Mechanicsville, VA United States | Yes for 2008-up not 99 and up. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| ksievers - 2013-09-06 7:48 AM I have a 2009 Vision Tour. New to me. I've only had it about two weeks and it runs fine. However, I have already ordered the Lloydz ATS timing wheel. As I read further, I realize that there are different cams for different models of Victory motorcycles, right? My question, before I open the package when it arrives, is, will I get the intended benefits of the ATS wheel on a Vision motor?? thanks - new guy, KS. Yes there diffrent cams. Visions and X models have a touring cam for the weight they have. The frame bikes are lighter so they have a quicker cam. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Read the instruction sheet that came with the wheel. It gives you hints on how to set things depending on what other performance mods you have. Some things, like a PC5, affect timing and you will need to compensate for that on the PC5.
I put mine on today in about 45 minutes. For me the hardest part was getting that darned right side floorboard off and back on. It has to come off to get at the timing cover machine screws. I took it out afterward and rode about 30 miles. According to the mileage indicator, it gave me around 4 MPG average. I'll see what it really did when I get my next tank of gas. It also pulls a bit better at low RPM. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | thanks.. is getting the floor board off pretty obvious? any tips?? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | installed it this afternoon. took probably 20 minutes; had to scrape some old gasket off or the job would have gone quicker... rode into work after, not a long ride or a great test, so can't claim too much extreme results, but it seems like it's just humming along, and I felt that when I was merging on the interstate, not really anticipating anything (too busy watching traffic) the bike was "sportier" pulling into where I needed to be (maybe in the 2500+ rpm range). and as others have reported (realizing the MPG computer is not the same as actually doing the math at fill-up) the mileage computer was going between 48 and 49 where it had been at 42. interesting....
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | ksievers - 2013-09-09 8:40 AM thanks.. is getting the floor board off pretty obvious? any tips?? The floorboards are obvious. There are two 8mm machine screws holding them on. My trouble was getting them to move with the thread locking material on them. No technical issues at all. I used blue lok-tite when I remounted them.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | all done. see above. my floorboard bolts took a bit of strength too but all OK. I put blue loctite on them as well. the rest of it was duck soup. the old wheel came out with fingers only, no prying. new wheel only goes on one way, gasket and wire took a bit of finesse to hold in place, tightened like lug nuts, opposite bolts, etc., no torque wrench used, just by touch.. no leaks, really runs great. Took a longer ride after my night class last night. It just "feels" good. Better engine-wise in all ways. It went from fine to really fine. Seems to have more zip for merging, wants to rev higher before shifting, etc..
It reminds me of my 76 KZ900 that I re-jetted from the starved EPA version back to prior years before the EPA killed the performance. Put in the old gauge jets, zooom!!
so, so far, am very pleased with a simple and inexpensive tweak. we'll see how the mpg's work out. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | What did you use for a setting? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
Las Vegas | Street Eagle - 2013-09-10 11:48 AM
What did you use for a setting?
That's what I want to know also. After all, it's an "Adjustable" Timing Wheel.
Thanks! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | I just received mine from Lloyzd. By default it is set to +4 |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | I left mine "as is." (+4)
I am not greedy. the benefit is real "as is." enough for me. no sense pushing the envelope. I figure Lloyd knows better than I so there you go.
Edited by ksievers 2013-09-10 6:43 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| start with +4 its so simple to go back in and change if you want.
By the way do not add loctite to floor board bolts. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | already added Loctite to floor board bolts. why not? |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | I read the included instructions that said a minimally modified bike like mine should be +2 to +4 degrees. As a bit conservative rider I chose to go with +3 degrees, not the default that Lloydz would give. It seems to work just fine so far but I cannot comment on people pushing the envelope. I simply will never go there. In most ways I am very conservative and changing things and just hoping for the best strikes me as irresponsible, but that is just me.
Edited by Oldman47 2013-09-11 4:41 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
| I saw a post by a CC owner that he noticed less engine heat with the ATW. How about it on the Vision? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | haven't noticed a change in the heat, but I haven't had a chance to log a lot of miles since I did the ATS. Mine has those adjustable louvers too.. they really do help direct the heat away, and I ALWAYS wear boots, so the heat issues for me are no big deal. It's hotter than Hades where I live (OK) anyway.. most of the time I wear overpants too. When I don't I wear the Draggin' Jeans. The jeans do not do as good a job at deflecting the heat, but the overpants do. So worst case scenario the heat from the engine doesn't bother me anyway. My other ride is a Honda ST1300 (for sale by the way :-)) and on that forum people bit-- about the heat from that. I guess all engines make heat.. so boots help.
Not sure it's logical that advancing the timing would alter any of that but I'll find out over time.
Edited by ksievers 2013-09-11 6:50 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Advancing timing will always make an engine run cooler. In the old days, yea I really am an old man, we all knew that retarding timing caused a serious increase in engine heat. Back then only a fool would advance timing from standard settings, but we did not operate under EPA mandates back then either. These days the EPA has dictated timings that are, at best, barely tolerable for your engine. There is no doubt at all that a small 4 degree advance, or 3 degrees as I did, will cause cooler running. The only questions are about things like ping, pre-ignition knock and similar things. It goes almost without saying that the engine will run cooler. That aspect is not subject to conjecture, it is a fact. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Installed the wheel and took it for its first run...UNBELIEVABLE!  I would have never of imagined the gain in power in low RPM range. Throttle response went form having to really twist the throttle, even with a 1/4 turn installed, to pretty much instant on. With the Lloydz upgrades and Witchdoctor's Voodoo exhaust, the thing is a ground pounding BEAST |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Oldman47 - 2013-09-11 7:44 PM
Advancing timing will always make an engine run cooler. In the old days, yea I really am an old man, we all knew that retarding timing caused a serious increase in engine heat. Back then only a fool would advance timing from standard settings, but we did not operate under EPA mandates back then either. These days the EPA has dictated timings that are, at best, barely tolerable for your engine. There is no doubt at all that a small 4 degree advance, or 3 degrees as I did, will cause cooler running. The only questions are about things like ping, pre-ignition knock and similar things. It goes almost without saying that the engine will run cooler. That aspect is not subject to conjecture, it is a fact.
Advancing timing causes a rise in combustion pressure, subsequently, a RISE in TEMPERATURE, it doesn't lower it. This is the condition that ping or knock thrives in, excess heat.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Norman, OK | does anyone know FOR SURE about the timing/heat question? mostly just curious.. as long as the bike runs well and is not knocking I'm good to go either way.. but I would like to know. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | When you advance the timing it fires the spark sooner. (advance, get it?) It will not affect pre-ignition knock since that is a result of combustion starting pre-ignition, before the spark. It is how a diesel engine works where compression of the fuel mix alone causes ignition and it can happen if your octane rating is so low that the mix ignites before it should, without benefit of a spark. Timing will affect ping which results from firing the spark too early compared to the piston position. That is the threat of this timing wheel. It could cause the spark to happen too early in the cycle and give you a ping. Retarding timing, the way the EPA retards would have you do, can mean that the flame front has not finished before an exhaust valve opens. Have a look at the glowing exhaust on a retarded timing engine to verify that things are still burning in the exhaust. No internal engine part should ever glow red, that happens right before the metal becomes so soft that it distorts. You may see steel glow red a bit at 1050 F and at 1100F it will start becoming soft and will glow a bright red. If you apply much pressure to the area at 1100F it will start to distort the metal.
Edited by Oldman47 2013-09-12 10:57 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Why were my three recently made posts removed?
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | David,
Your 3 posts are in the thread titled "auto volume control" |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Thanks. Not sure how that happened. lol
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Where is that post? I don't see it here in the Q&A section OV. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
| Danny from Lloyds said if anthing will run cooler. Sounds like heat could be a problem if it's timing is way off either way. I plan on following the Oldman's advice and advancing 3 degrees.
Thanks for the feedback |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Turk - 2013-09-12 12:42 PM Why were my three recently made posts removed? TURK It was good information Over there on the radio post |
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
Boydsville, AR United States | Had mine done in Sturgis, when I had them dial in the fuel controller on the dyno. Now putting out 117 HP, and it runs smooth as silk now. Thanks Kevin, Lloyd, and KMC! Low RPM throttle response is better, and low RMPs are wayyyyy smother.
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