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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | So Dunlop has announced it's new and improved Elite 3 Rear tire for our bikes and Goldwings.
A Multi tread compound for a longer lasting tire.
http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product/dunlop-elite-3-mt-radial-to... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 804
Perry Hall, MD | Nice, I on a trial darkside now, but can't say that I'm the biggest fan and could consider the new E3. While on the site I took notice of the Michelin Commander II. Anyone know if this an option for Vision riders? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 30
Leighton, IA | Lennyb,
lstayner is riding on the Commander II and is on his second set. He told me that he really likes them and they give him excellent performance and long wear. He also highly recommends Centramatic wheel balancers. I'm going to give the Commanders a try after my E3's are worn out. I should be able to get another 5-7K out of my E3 so it will be a little while. I will probably put on Centramatics in the next month or two. (Cash flow going in the wrong direction right now.)
Remember that the Commander is a Bias Ply tire so you should replace both the front and rear if you are considering changing from a Radial.
Hopefully, Larry (lstayner) will read this and give you his thoughts on the subject. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Woot, woot, I'll be ordering the new e3 soon. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Yeah - time for my bi-annual free weekend in northern Washington State - you know... the one where I save so much money buying my tires there, that it pays for a 3 day weekend with meals and accommodations. ($1,000 in Canada - $600 in WA. =$400 for having fun).
Almost sad to think I would have to stretch it to tri-annual if the tires last longer !!! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 91
| I went with Avon cobra about a month ago. I haven't put many miles on but I'm pleased so far.
Avon Offers Cobra Tire Combination For Victory Motorcycles
http://www.avonmoto.com/blog/4465
Edited by boatsrfun 2013-06-03 6:05 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| boatsrfun - 2013-06-03 4:03 AM
I went with Avon cobra about a month ago. I haven't put many miles on but I'm pleased so far.
Avon Offers Cobra Tire Combination For Victory Motorcycles
http://www.avonmoto.com/blog/4465
I'm running cobras as well and they really work well. Watch out for the rear, 7000 miles give or take is all its good for.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Does anyone know for definite where the E3 howl comes from, front or rear?
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | rear, negligible from the front... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Thanks Chris.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| On my third set of E3's on this bike.... Never heard 'em howl |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Consider yourself very, very fortunate. It'll drive you nuts.
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | love to hear the them howl. The louder they howl only means the harder I'm ridin'... |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | I had a howl on Dunlops on my HD with even a mild lean into a turn once they had a bit of wear on them. My guess is that it comes from the slight cupping effect at each side wall tread groove. It definitely got me to check my tires long before they needed any attention . |
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Cruiser
Posts: 54
Bancroft Ontario, Canada | They would have to be much better than the existing 3's.....i am sick of the howl, cupping and lack of milage....i have just went DS with 185 Hankook and love it so far.....may change my mind as i ride and tire wear shows up....don`t know what MT i would go back to...
Bear |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | My next rear tire will probably be a CT but if I stuck with a M/C tire it would have to be one of the multi compound tires. The days of single compound rear tires are gone (or should be), especially on the heavier bikes. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| VBear - 2013-06-04 4:44 AM
They would have to be much better than the existing 3's.....i am sick of the howl, cupping and lack of milage....i have just went DS with 185 Hankook and love it so far.....may change my mind as i ride and tire wear shows up....don`t know what MT i would go back to...
Bear
My experience with the E3's is polar opposite of yours.
Howl = NO
Cupping = NO
Mileage = YES (averaging 16k+ from rear)
But, I keep them aired up properly.... ( 41 rear, 38 front, set in the morning, in my garage, before the bike ever moves). Once the bike starts rolling the mile or two down to the gas station to set pressure, you've already thrown the readings off by as much as 5psi.
Several years ago, I did have an E3 front tire cup on my old Kingpin, but I don't think I was airing them up adequately back then. I think I had it around 32-34psi.
Edited by Turk 2013-06-04 6:57 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | I'm an air pressure freak too, Turk. You know I ride 2 up, trunk and bags and rack loaded all the time.
I got 8K on the E3 before I couldn't take it anymore. Howl started at less than 3K. Go figure |
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Cruiser
Posts: 281
| I just ordered a set today. We shall see. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | okie vision - 2013-06-04 9:11 AM
I'm an air pressure freak too, Turk. You know I ride 2 up, trunk and bags and rack loaded all the time.
I got 8K on the E3 before I couldn't take it anymore. Howl started at less than 3K. Go figure
Same here. I switched to Bridgestones the last time precisely because of the cupping and attendant howling of the Dunlop E3s. We like the curvy backroads and the constant howling was driving me nuts.
I hope the new and improved E3s will address that problem. If they last longer, but howl longer too, they are not for me.
Dual compound tires are becoming more common. They have become popular in the sport bike sizes. There will be other choices in the touring bike sizes too.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | My E3's howl a bit... but that's OK because it works in tandem with the lone wolf clutch cover that I have; howling at the moon.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Turk - 2013-06-03 6:54 PM
On my third set of E3's on this bike.... Never heard 'em howl
Me either, but I keep my shock pressure high
Edited by kevinx 2013-06-04 2:23 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 73
Nor Cali | kevinx - 2013-06-04 12:23 PM Turk - 2013-06-03 6:54 PM On my third set of E3's on this bike.... Never heard 'em howl Me either, but I keep my shock pressure high Never heard them "Howl" either...but I'm listening to music anyway.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | I've got a little under 5k miles on my Vision and I don't think I've heard the tires howl yet. I'm pretty particular about tire pressure and they're not cupping (yet) so maybe that's it. |
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Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | lennyb - 2013-06-02 8:18 PM
Nice, I on a trial darkside now, but can't say that I'm the biggest fan and could consider the new E3. While on the site I took notice of the Michelin Commander II. Anyone know if this an option for Vision riders?
I am on my 2nd Commander II rear and 1st front Commander II. My front tire wore out so I decided to change the rear at 22.5 K. I think there was another 3k left on it but wanted to start with a new set. I have added the Centramatic wheel balancers this time around. Another one of our members tried the Commander with the Centramatics and when I spoke with last week about the tire and balancers, I think he was very happy with the ride and performance of the tire and balancers. He had to go with an E3 front because the dealer didn't have a front in stock yet. We hit one of our favorite twisty roads after a reasonable break in period of the tire and it is the best handling I have gotten yet from the Vision. 45 mph curves at 70 mph was a piece of cake.
I will watch the new E3 and see if they have stepped up their game. If so I may give them a try again. They have quite a hill to climb though. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | I run the Bridgestone G709's on mine and love them. I only get 10-11k out of any rear tire no matter what, even on my Goldwings. I had the dreaded howl on my E3's as well and I'm a tire pressure nut too. My stones have no howl and last just as long. About to change out my rear again after another 10k miles. I feel the stones are smoother, quieter and handle every bit as well as the Dunlop. Just a thought... |
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Tourer
Posts: 430
| Nitrogen in the tire baby! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Darkside fix's it right up for good......
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | I am amazed at the mileage I am still getting with my E3 rear (now 13.5k) and still more useable rear center tread to go... I have never had a motorcycle rear tire last that long. I'll get the E3's again. I am pleased with it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I'm trying to remember when I put on my last rear E3, but it has seemed like it was time for a change. I looked at it today and it looks good still, so now I'm wondering when it was. I replace the rear about every 6 months, and I thought it was december/january, but I might be wrong or I've got the new MT E3 |
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Tourer
Posts: 430
| I've got 10k on my e3 rear, looks good for many more. Got 13k on my front when I replaced it with another e3. I think when it is time to replace the rear I will try a set of Micheline Commander II. seeing good reviews about the C II. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Be careful. That Commander is a bias ply tire while your E-3 is a radial. I do not buy into the idea that all tires must match but I believe that they should at least be the same type. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
| I get 20k out of my E-3. |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | The load rating on anything other than the E3's keeps me from changing brands.
I've averaged 14,000 on the rear tires over 53,000 miles.
The front tires had a lot of life left in them but I like new rubber so I change them out with the rears.
As far as the howling goes, I'm fairly certain it comes from the front tire and I only hear it in the turns.
Both tires are duel compound tires and you can plainly see that as they wear down.
http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/tire-catalog/road/touring/elite-3/ |
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Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | Avon Cobra rear has an 80 load rating-So far I'm liking it better than my E3's but need to wear it out to make the overall comparison. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 42
Bella Vista, AR | I've got 7,000 on my rear E3 and it's shot. I know weight has a lot to do with tire wear, and my passenger and I are not little people, but I really expected better mileage out of this tire. Tire alignment is good, and I always run 41-42psi in the rear. I bought this bike as a demo with 2200 miles on it, so I can't say what happened before I got the bike, but the tires were already cupped by then. I've thought about going DS, but just don't know if I'd be satisfied with it for my area and riding style. Thinking of trying the Commanders, but don't see the sizes for the Vision, at least not where I've looked. Maybe lstayner can chime in with some more info? |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Michelin does NOT recommend the Commander for Visions.
Avons lose too much in carry capacity.
The new E3 rear tire is duel compound, but the front isn't.
The new E3 rear has a 992 pound rating.
I spent about 4 hours yesterday checking out all the tires for my Vision and there really is only one choice.
E3 |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| bigfoot - 2013-06-29 3:45 PM
Avons lose too much in carry capacity.The new Cobra has the same 80H rating as the E3 so I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Marc |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 42
Bella Vista, AR | bigfoot - 2013-06-29 5:45 PM
Michelin does NOT recommend the Commander for Visions.
Where did you find this info? Commander is a higher load rating than the E3. |
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Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | fish51 - 2013-06-29 7:59 PM
bigfoot - 2013-06-29 5:45 PM
Michelin does NOT recommend the Commander for Visions.
Where did you find this info? Commander is a higher load rating than the E3.
He didn't find the information on the Michelin site. Just because they don't make an exact tire size he is making an assumption. I did a bunch of research and asking my tire shop about running a size larger. They said one size larger is not a problem. I did it on my VStar 1300 several times with no issues. |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | fish51 - 2013-06-29 8:59 PM bigfoot - 2013-06-29 5:45 PM Michelin does NOT recommend the Commander for Visions. Where did you find this info? Commander is a higher load rating than the E3. TRUE But Michelin doesn't have the correct size for our bike and the closest fit would be a biased ply tire instead of a radial. If you go to the Michelin site and use their "tool" to find the correct tire you'll see that they say they don't have a tire for our bike. I wanted to try Michelin's my next tire change, but if they don't recommend their tires for my bike, then it's a no-go. |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | marcparnes - 2013-06-29 7:35 PM bigfoot - 2013-06-29 3:45 PM Avons lose too much in carry capacity.The new Cobra has the same 80H rating as the E3 so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Marc It seems that as of April of this year, you are correct. Avon Offers Cobra Tire Combination For Victory Motorcycles
STOW, OH – The new Cobra tire combination from Avon Tyres is the perfect choice for a wide variety of Victory motorcycles model year 2008 and newer.
When compared to the stock tires, the new Cobrarear tire features a triple compound, including a longer lasting compound in the center, softer shoulder compound for improved grip and cornering performance,and a third compound that binds these compounds together to reduce tire temperature and increase mileage. The six-ply design for the rear includes two Aramid belts and a nylon belt to reinforce and stabilize the tire carcass, reduce tire flex under heavier loads, and provide a more comfortable ride. Force Following Groovestransmit energy across the surface of the tires for even wear and longer life. “It’s important to select a replacement tire that’s designed to meet the unique needs of specific Victory motorcycle models,” stated Sukoshi Fahey, Sales & Marketing Manager, Avon Tyres. “The Cobra tread design resists uneven wear and tracking on irregular road surfaces, while the distinctive snakeskin effect sidewall makes these tires a real head turner.” The Cobra for Victory motorcycles is available in size 130/70R18 front, and180/60R16 rear for the following models: Victory Vision® Street (2008-2009), Victory Vision® Tour (2008-2012), Arlen Ness®Victory Vision® (2009-2010), Arlen Ness® Vision Tour® (2011-2012), Victory Cross Roads® (2010) and Cross Roads/Classic LE (2011-2012), Victory Hard-Ball™ (2012), Victory 8-Ball® (2010-2011), Victory Cross Country® (2010-2012), Victory Cross Country Tour® (2012) and Victory Cory Ness Cross Country® (2011-2012). For more information, visit http://www.avonmoto.com. |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area |
lstayner - 2013-06-29 9:50 PM fish51 - 2013-06-29 7:59 PM bigfoot - 2013-06-29 5:45 PM Michelin does NOT recommend the Commander for Visions. Where did you find this info? Commander is a higher load rating than the E3. He didn't find the information on the Michelin site. Just because they don't make an exact tire size he is making an assumption. I did a bunch of research and asking my tire shop about running a size larger. They said one size larger is not a problem. I did it on my VStar 1300 several times with no issues. I'm fairly certain that this is Michelin's site for motorcycles. Click on it and then fill in the search area blanks with a Victory Vision and see what they say. http://michelinmotorcycle.com/tire-selector |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I'm on my second set. They have superior wet weather performance, no howl at all, great cornering feel and don't' square off. BUT, be aware that the rear will only last half as long as an E3 in my experience. For me about 6K is about it. I have the next set on the floor as we speak. I'm doing an 11K mile trip this summer and will have to plan two tire and oil change stops along the way. One stop for a rear and one stop for both. Its a bit of a pain since nobody stocks them but its still worth it to me.
Marc |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area |
fish51 - 2013-06-23 2:26 AM I've got 7,000 on my rear E3 and it's shot. I know weight has a lot to do with tire wear, and my passenger and I are not little people, but I really expected better mileage out of this tire. Tire alignment is good, and I always run 41-42psi in the rear. I'm 6'4" tall and weigh 300 pounds. I've averaged 16,000 miles per rear tire which I find perfectly acceptable. I keep 38 PSI in the front and 40 PSI in the rear and I use a $40 pressure gauge from Summit Racing that is extremely accurate. (I threw away my stick gauges due to inaccuracy, some by as much as 4 PSI) That average would have been considerably higher except that I had to change out my tires due to longer trips coming up of 7,600 miles, 3,000 miles, and 4,700 miles. I didn't want to have to worry about tires while on the road. First tire change was at 14,600 Second tire change was at 29,500 (14,900 miles) Third tire change was at 48,000 (18,500 miles) Getting 18,500 miles on a rear tire before I hit ANY of the wear bars is fantastic. This tire had a born on date of just one month prior, but I doubt that had much to do with it. I always change out both tires at the same time. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | bigfoot, 18,500 is outstanding !!!!!!! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | bigfoot - 2013-06-30 11:30 AM
http://michelinmotorcycle.com/tire-selector
Michelin Tire site
MICHELIN provides tires for more than 3000 motorcycles
... but unfortunately for this one.
Michelin needs to hire a new proofreader. I'm sure it was supposed to say "...but unfortunately NOT for this one.". |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Actually you could use the 180/65/16 Commander for the rear. It is only a 1/4" bigger in diameter so your speedo will only be off just a tad. The load rating for that size is an 81H which is more than the Elite 3. I have an Dunlop American Elite rear tire instead of the Elite 3 on mine and it is the same as the Commander with an 81H load index. It too is a bias ply, but I have found no ill effects so far. Have 10,000 miles on it so far and they look like they are about 1/2 worn. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 42
Bella Vista, AR | marcparnes - 2013-06-30 10:33 AM
I'm on my second set. They have superior wet weather performance, no howl at all, great cornering feel and don't' square off. BUT, be aware that the rear will only last half as long as an E3 in my experience. For me about 6K is about it. I have the next set on the floor as we speak. I'm doing an 11K mile trip this summer and will have to plan two tire and oil change stops along the way. One stop for a rear and one stop for both. Its a bit of a pain since nobody stocks them but its still worth it to me.
Marc
Are you talking about the Michelins or the Avons? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| fish51 - 2013-07-01 12:26 AM
marcparnes - 2013-06-30 10:33 AM
I'm on my second set. They have superior wet weather performance, no howl at all, great cornering feel and don't' square off. BUT, be aware that the rear will only last half as long as an E3 in my experience. For me about 6K is about it. I have the next set on the floor as we speak. I'm doing an 11K mile trip this summer and will have to plan two tire and oil change stops along the way. One stop for a rear and one stop for both. Its a bit of a pain since nobody stocks them but its still worth it to me.
Marc
Are you talking about the Michelins or the Avons?
Oops, sorry! Avon Cobra.
Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 271
Belding Michigan | I had a little excitement on Saturday. My bike has always been very stable but I don't ride in the rain often at least not if I can help it. We got caught in a little downpour on Saturday morning I have a new Dunlop E3 on the bike about 2 to 3 hundred miles on it pressure is right and the shock set to hard as I am a big guy. We hit some tar snakes at about 50 mph and the bike was all over the place. Not a pleasant experience this was my first issue with the Victory and far different for the GW I used to ride not sure of the problem yet but this is a show stopper from my point of view. Not being able to trust my footing in the rain is something that may make this have to change. Any ideas are welcome. Archie |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| amessen - 2013-07-01 7:59 AM
I had a little excitement on Saturday. My bike has always been very stable but I don't ride in the rain often at least not if I can help it. We got caught in a little downpour on Saturday morning I have a new Dunlop E3 on the bike about 2 to 3 hundred miles on it pressure is right and the shock set to hard as I am a big guy. We hit some tar snakes at about 50 mph and the bike was all over the place. Not a pleasant experience this was my first issue with the Victory and far different for the GW I used to ride not sure of the problem yet but this is a show stopper from my point of view. Not being able to trust my footing in the rain is something that may make this have to change. Any ideas are welcome. ArchieThis is exactly my experience with E3s but without the tar strips. Riding in West Virginia in a moderate rain the front slid out twice for no good reason. I've been riding for near 50 years and have never experienced anything as disconcerting. I considered getting rid of the bike and getting something else if I couldn't ride it safely in the rain. Before doing that I tried a set of Cobras and the problem evaporated. They wear out faster but they restored my confidence in the bike so it's worth it. On the other hand you will hear from plenty of guys that never have a problem in the wet so I don't know why I did but the Cobras resolved it so it doesn't matter.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| amessen - 2013-07-01 9:59 AM
I had a little excitement on Saturday. My bike has always been very stable but I don't ride in the rain often at least not if I can help it. We got caught in a little downpour on Saturday morning I have a new Dunlop E3 on the bike about 2 to 3 hundred miles on it pressure is right and the shock set to hard as I am a big guy. We hit some tar snakes at about 50 mph and the bike was all over the place. Not a pleasant experience this was my first issue with the Victory and far different for the GW I used to ride not sure of the problem yet but this is a show stopper from my point of view. Not being able to trust my footing in the rain is something that may make this have to change. Any ideas are welcome. Archie
Wet tar snakes don't care what brand of tire slides across them.... nor do hot gooey tar snakes. Tread compound and siping only make a difference when there is a surface to adhere to. Wet tar snakes are like wet paint.... all things being equal (bike, speed, lean angle) two different brands of tire are gonna slip equally. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | This is exactly my experience with E3s but without the tar strips. Riding in West Virginia in a moderate rain the front slid out twice for no good reason. I've been riding for near 50 years and have never experienced anything as disconcerting. I considered getting rid of the bike and getting something else if I couldn't ride it safely in the rain. Before doing that I tried a set of Cobras and the problem evaporated. They wear out faster but they restored my confidence in the bike so it's worth it. On the other hand you will hear from plenty of guys that never have a problem in the wet so I don't know why I did but the Cobras resolved it so it doesn't matter. Marc In my opinion, a dangerous assumption. Our contact patch is so small, you would have to go and examine every inch of the area where you slipped to find the root cause. It takes a very small spot to encounter that would cause you to go down, and as others mentioned, it's susceptible to any tire. So you switch brands and you don't hit a spot, so you assume that all is well using that tire. Just this morning alone, I was at the courthouse, the parking had recently been resealed. I never gave it much thought, moved slow as I normally would moving about. When I went to leave, I got a little heavy on the throttle and I found myself drifting. It took me back to the days when McDonald's would reseal the parking lot and little bleach and water would get some good smoke from the tires.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 160
Camas Washington | Here in the Pacific NW on the west side of the Casade Mts all it does is rain, rain rain. Have E3s on the Vision and there is no poblem with wet roads. People tend to forget if it has not rained for awhile the roads get an oil film on them, when it rains you might as well be on ice. It takes a good rain storm to wash the oil off the roads. Dry spell + light rain = slick roads. |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Touring through southern Utah and the 4 corners region when the temperature was in the 110+ region I found that hot tar snakes are equal to black ice.
Two different motorcycles, two different brands of tires. (Bridgestone Battlax and Dunlop E3's)
I was on one road for over 50 miles that had more tar snakes than areas of the road without them.
Touring through Canada on a circumvention of Lake Erie I had similar tar snake issues during a hard rain.
Two wheeled vehicle don't like tar snakes.
As far as the E3's in heavy rain at freeway speeds, no problem at all.
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New Dunlop Elite3 Rear tire