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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Help! Did I buy the wrong bike?
I sold my H-D SoftTail and bought a 2010 Cross Roads. I bought this for a more comfortable ride when I ride with my wife, but when she's on the back I can barely keep upright at stops and low speed turns. Not big, (at about 130 lb.) when she's on, my lean angle when we're stopped is only 1-2 degrees either way before I'm gonna drop the bike.
I've played with shock air pressure and taken it down to zero with no help. Is there some set up point I'm missing?
I've got no problem riding single, but I bought this bike for two !
What can I do? |
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Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | You might try a lowering kit to give you a bit more leverage. Not being a HD person, I am only guessing here but your feet are probably out a bit further on the Vic than the HD. Other than that I would suggest a bit of parking lot practice with her on board. Not knowing how long you have had the bike, I will throw this out too. How comfortable are you on the bike riding solo? What can you do for lean angle at a stop? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Trade her in for a new model ...
Every hour or so I have to reach back and feel for MY wife's leg to see if she's still there. When she says something - I 'jump' when the sound comes thru my earphones ...
Is she maybe trying to help by 'leaning' ???
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | I've considered all of that. I'm a 22 year rider, honestly the H-D was much easier to handle 2-up. Solo, I've got no problem, lean angles, stopped, is probably 5-8 degrees.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | No, she's an experienced rider too. Good passenger. It just feels as though she's perched too high. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Hey radial
if you are having balance problems how do both of you get on the bike to begin with |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | I think your rear shock should be 40lbs (mine is always). and lean angle at a stop should be ZERO with both feet down.
I am on a Vision - not Cross so I can't say why/what would be different. I am only 5'8" and going on 70 years old. NEVER had a problem. Great ride today - here is a short video of one of our stops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vqJuXkf2Ho
I know, quit changing the subject ...
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | really? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Agree Don, awesome |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Thanks, guys.
I know the Vision has a similar cast backbone, but I don't think they're the same as the Cross |
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Cruiser
Posts: 209
| the soft tail is prob. lighter than the cr. for starters...the cr is prob. taller and longer. its just a bigger bike. the cr. can be lowered about an inch for a couple hundred bucks. I struggle some 2-up i'm only 5-8 170lbs. and wifey is heavier than me. just gotta be careful..you'll get used to it. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 209
| street eagle... as for mounting bike with wife..I leave it on kickstand, she mounts then me..she leans right to help me upright..works great, no struggle holding up bike while she gets on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | I get on - wife gets on ...
(DSC01085.jpg)
Attachments
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 DSC01085.jpg (86KB - 4 downloads)
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Banjodan - 2013-05-20 8:50 PM
street eagle... as for mounting bike with wife..I leave it on kickstand, she mounts then me..she leans right to help me upright..works great, no struggle holding up bike while she gets on.
We do that sometimes! So funny you said that. I'm 5'6", real featherweight, maybe 150lbs, wife is only slightly heavier than me (incase she reads this) . Other times I hold it upright while she gets on , no problem. 
Edited by jimtom 2013-05-21 6:50 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Thanks Banjodan
jimtom...you and I are the exact same stature as well as our better halves! I will try both these mounting methods....ok,....I mean the bike 
There was a thread on 2 up mounting techniques and I attempted to search without any luck. If someone comes across it could you please post it. Thanks very much!1 |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Found the link for passenger mounting suggestions
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9930&pos...
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | I know how to get on and off the bike, as does my passenger. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | I know how to get on and off the bike, as does my passenger. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | radial - 2013-05-21 9:07 PM I know how to get on and off the bike, as does my passenger. I don't know how to say this - other than ... in 50+ years on more than 21 bikes - I have NEVER had a problem riding 2-up. I even took my first wife for rides after she was partially disabled, before she passed away. So - don't blame the bike ... keep searching for an answer. Maybe have a friend try with your lady - on different bikes, including yours. Whatever. Don't give up! I have never heard of ANY road bike being a problem riding 2-up. Don't blame the machinery. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Yeh, I appreciate the thought, but I am not a novice. I've riddden 2-up for years on different bikes as well - SoftTail, Dyna Sport, Valkyrie, Bonnevilles way back . This bike is different. Sure, I can handle it, it's just that the point of no return tip angle -you know what I mean- is very limited.
I'm looking for set up suggestions to improve this. Lowering? Tires? Shock set up?
C'mon, I can't be the only one who's noticed this.
BTW, the Vision is not the XR. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 108
Conneaut, OH | Get a 1" lowering link it'll take 15-30 minutes to install. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | personally, I don't think my input is that valuable.
When I rode 2-up on my 84 GL1200 I just knew one day I would drop her and she'd never ride I again. It was always a struggle, even going down the road, because at first she was not a good rider. Once I got her trained, every stop, every take off was some sort of challenge. When I got the GL1500 I would not dare ride her on that one and got rid of it to get the Vision. I'm not a large man, and I've only be riding again for 7 years. Fortunately we only had one situation with the GL1200 where it would have been a total disaster if I let it go. I was on an incline, two-up on the Gold Wing stopped in gravel with about 5 Harley riders standing around. When I stopped, it was going down, but by brute strength I was able to keep it upright and just as I got back on balance, THEN they came rushing to help. I would have not only took us down, but a couple of other bikes as well. In the process, I pulled a muscle and nerve in my chest that has caused atrophy in my left hand. I'm short in stature, 30" inseam, 5'8" and a small build.
Since owning the Vision, I have never had a balance issue, with her mounting, dismounting, or riding, at stops or take offs. It is a night and day difference that made this novice look like a pro. So I truly don't know what the issue is that you are having with the Vision. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | he rides a CR. I can't speak to that. It and the fat tired bikes are the only Victorys I haven't ridden. 
Edited by jimtom 2013-05-22 9:01 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Radial, I have that same basic problem when riding 2-up, and it has not changed when I went from my FLHTCU to my FLTRU to my new Vision. I don't know what she is doing back there, she claims nothing, but I can ride easily at extreme low speeds when solo and have a hard time staying in control at as much 10MPH with her on back. I suspect she is nervous from all the times she has caused me to have trouble and now tries to help by shifting her weight around, which of course makes it worse. (That is just my guess)
Edited by Oldman47 2013-05-22 11:18 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Try the police slow manuevers, rev throttle and mid friction zone clutch and drag rear brake. Get the centrifugal rotational mass moving in the motor, helps stabilize the machine. Then ease out in the friction zone of the clutch while dragging the rear brake, slow manuevers are far easier this way. However, I have seemed to lost the ability to turn around in two parking spots, dropped the bike the other night 3 times and still couldn't do it. Losing my touch.
Also, pending the age of the bike. The steering stem bearings get sticky and notchy from time and wear, makes slow manuevers tough, same with worn front tire. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | jimtom - 2013-05-22 10:00 AM he rides a CR. I can't speak to that. It and the fat tired bikes are the only Victorys I haven't ridden. thanks for that correction, I blew by that for some reason. I've riden a Cross bike, and it does feel different, so maybe it's like any other bike. Solution: get a Vision. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | I've ridden a CCT but just a solo demo. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Pollolittle, the new Victories in general, and my Vision in particular does not have truly separate brakes. The rear brake also applies the front brake, which messes up that method to a large degree.
It is not a lack of ability to balance, it is about a passenger affecting your balance no matter what you do. My trouble started when I bought an Electra Glide that was too tall for me. By the time I got it lowered, the pattern had become established and even on my nice low Yamaha, I was suddenly having low speed troubles with her on board. I am tempted to take my 38 years old daughter for a ride and see if it still happens. That would at least narrow it down to me or the particular passenger. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Oldman, see my response to pollolittle's suggestion
Thanks |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I know how hard it is to say she can't ride...but I would have to if I felt she was a danger to the two of us. I recently scrapped the boards and she never even flinched. I was expecting it, but she just reminded me I wasn't alone. Nothing new, only a reminder. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Radial I don't see a response! Hmmm! May have something to do with my inability to turn around here in a parking lot. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 154
Danbury, Connecticut | Radial, I think what you are experiencing is the fact that the passenger sits quite a bit higher than you do on your CR vs. previous bikes. Ask her how much more view she has over your head on this bike. The higher she is, the higher your center of gravity-she has more leverage up high- so anything beyond 0 degrees gets magnified. I struggled when I first got my Vision, particularly when I was two up. I purchased some of the Ride Like A Pro DVDs and practiced. That absolutely improved my ability riding in many ways and I considered myself a pretty good rider before. I rode a Dyna-Wide Glide prior to the Vision and have been riding for over 30 years. Take an advanced riding course or the Ride Like A Pro videos and you will find tips and techniques that make you a better rider-regardless of how long you have been riding or how good you think you are. I promise you, I have been where you are. Lowering the bike is a crutch unless there is something mechanically wrong with it, but if that were the case you should have an issue solo too. I rode both a Vision and both Cross bikes during a demo ride 2-up and I don't recall any significant differences in that balance issue between the different bikes. Good luck! |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Well I have ridden a HD softail classic and I thought it would stand on its own without a kickstand, didn't feel as wobbly coming to a stop. The vision if not paying attention feels like my dirt bike come to a stop and be ready to put a foot down. Come to think of it I ride this bike more like a dirtbike than probably most. I'll drift it in the driveway, probably couldn't do that on the HD felt heavy. So, with the vision it feels more sportbike or dirt bike inspired than. Lazy old guy in a crown Vic. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Don't know what happened to my reply, but basically you've given the only response with any insight - compared with H-D rides.
The H-D key differences (perceptions)may be engine related. That hog engine has a lower C of G in the frame (any pushrod engine is gonna have smaller, lower heads). Plus it's got that big-ass flywheel. The gyro effect of the flywheel and a higher RPM at idle may give the different perception.
I've used the rev-and-drag-the-rear-brake technique and it does work.
I'm still open to any set-up suggestions, but for now I'll just keep the slow speed rev's a little higher.
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | I haven't really rode a hog for many miles but that was my perception. Thanks for replying that was helpful for me from your viewpoint. Didn't know the hog idled higher or had a lower cg. Probably why the vision handles so well at speed which would be the tradeoff slower. Interesting, but I would guess sport bikes are twitchy slower. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | One other thing, seems when you come to a stop with passenger if they move to one side or the other just a smidge would impact that slow balance. I use to fight mine with wife on board, come to find out that's what it was and I had to ask her to be motionless when coming to a stop but underway no bother. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Thanks.
I am a believer in the training courses. Taken the basic twice & advanced once - I learned something every time.
I have not seen Ride Like a Pro, but I may have to check it out.
Knowledge is power and more power is always good.
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Cruiser
Posts: 209
| very thankful for vision anti tipovers.....needed them a few times on those awkward hilly spots |
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Cruiser
Posts: 142
elgin mn | I have had some of the same Issues, maybe from being nervous or maybe my wife is nervous. of the 26000 on my vision my wife has ridden maybe 6000. I tend to ride a lot different with her on,slower in corners and slower overall. I try to make it enjoyable for her because she was never on a bike before 09. It is a work in progress. keep trying. It isnt the bike!!! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 804
Perry Hall, MD | When I went to the Vision there was a big change in weight and distribution. After using the tipovers a couple of times I finally learned that I needed to spread my legs a bit more with my toes pointed out. Problem solved.
Another observation about the Vision is that anything effecting the rear wheel is transmitted to the front. I refer to it as the tail wagging the dog. As the rear tire contacts the curb coming into my driveway the front end will shake. Certain intersections with particularly uneven surfaces cause a less pronounced but similar reaction and unsteadiness when the rear tire travels across the bumps and dips. This was accentuated when I went to the darkside. It helped to stiffen the rear end by increasing shock pressure to 40 when solo (w/ trunk and 190 lb rider) and 50 when 2 up (added 140 lb).
A stabilizer for the rear end would be a welcomed accessory. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | You know, I stated early on, I'm riding a CROSS ROADS. I really don't give a sh*t about your Vision's mileage. Don't you have yor own forum? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | radial - 2013-06-12 9:13 PM You know, I stated early on, I'm riding a CROSS ROADS. I really don't give a sh*t about your Vision's mileage. Don't you have yor own forum? EASY LITTLE MAN! This site is called "VISION-RIDERS" - not HARLEY-WANNABEES |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | +1 |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | The top of my page says
"Cross Riders" |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | radial - 2013-06-13 5:49 PM
The top of my page says
"Cross Riders"
Can't explain it, but the top of my page says "Vision Riders".
Ronnie |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | You're all correct. As I'm sure you know, there are a few "-Riders" (Hammer, Vegas, Kingpin, Cross and Vision) forums that are all intertwined. This is the General Victory sub forum which is the same on all the -Rider boards. Chill out, guys. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | The site started as "Vision Riders" - then other Victory models were added.
The site address I use is: http://www.vision-riders.com
and like it says "VISION-RIDERS.COM" - not "CROSS-RIDERS.COM"
If you click on HOME you can see the other models. If you don't see MY Vision in the lead-photo - you are not on the VISION page ...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | Doesn't matter if it started with Vision-Riders or not. The bottom line is, the General Victory Discussion sub forum is the same for all the -Rider forums. The home page is different as are the other sub forums depending on which forum you happen to be on. BTW, you don't even need to click on the Home button. Just hover over it and you should get a drop down menu of the other -Rider forums. Because this sub forum is the same across all the boards, radial is right (although he came across as an ass) as are you and Ronnie. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Awe Monkeyman! That's not FAIR!!! HE started it... Waaaaaaa...........
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Cruiser
Posts: 154
Danbury, Connecticut | If I have to pull this bike over to talk to you guys about this, someone's in trouble! LOL. Deep breath guys, we're all on the same team. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Ha! You nailed it. I'm a Harley wannabe. I guess I'll go trade in my Vic for a Sportster.
Look, all I wanted was info and experience from fellow Cross riders. What I got was cute remarks from Visionaries telling me I don't know how to ride.
Y'all ride safe. I'm done. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Hey Radial
Don't let those folks get to you. I too sometime wonder why editorial comments need to be shared when someone is reaching out to the forum for help and advise. Granted, there are forums that focus on specific models but that shouldn't prohibit folks to respond constructively.
I've learned a LOT from the awesome folks on this forum. The only thing I regret is the forum is costing me more and more money!!! I am having engine upgrades done as soon as Lloydz gets my parts in |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Lexington Park, MD | radial - 2013-05-22 9:19 AM
Yeh, I appreciate the thought, but I am not a novice. I've riddden 2-up for years on different bikes as well - SoftTail, Dyna Sport, Valkyrie, Bonnevilles way back . This bike is different. Sure, I can handle it, it's just that the point of no return tip angle -you know what I mean- is very limited.
I'm looking for set up suggestions to improve this. Lowering? Tires? Shock set up?
C'mon, I can't be the only one who's noticed this.
BTW, the Vision is not the XR.
Hey Radial, just curious on a couple things. I helped on a demo day at our dealer and road 3 different Xbikes and they all handled different it seemed at the stop.
What's our height/inseam? Possible aftermarket seat may help?
Back rest or not?
Are you flat footed on both feet at the light? At 5'8' I am usually one foot solid one on the toe
Gas tank full when experiencing this the worst? Roughly 6 pounds to the gallon. I know that was the first thing I noticed during the demo day on the X bikes since the visions tanks are lower.
Anything in your Saddle bags? Have you tried adding 10 pounds to the. Bags to see what happens
Set your shock pressure to the specs. My buddy rides a XCT and was commenting his was spot on for handling
Tires at 40/41
Hows your handlebars feel to you (don't recall if adjustable or not)
I'm certain everyone's wanting to help here, I understand what your going through from when I bought my TC. I think like you've already mentioned its a combination and configuration.
Safe ridin, Tim |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Columbus OH | Tims 11,
Thanks for the input. I've tried a couple of things. I'm 6', my wife is 5'9", we're combined about 330 Lbs.
I usually start out with a full tank.
I've got the tires set to spec, only 10 psi in the shock, and I added weight to the bags. I have solid stainless steel bars in the bags that lie very low and flat in the bags, about 15 lbs per side.
Took a ride on some twisties in Southern Ohio this weekend. What an improvement! Sure, there's added weight, but it lowered the CG enough to make a huge difference. Stops and tight turns are almost the same as solo. Riding 2-up is not a battle any more. It's almost hard to believe the weight made that much of a change, but it did.
I'd recommend adding some weight LOW in the bags to any Cross rider that has felt uneasy with a pasenger.
Thank you for the tip.
Ride safe,
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Lexington Park, MD | Glad to hear you got it bro! I know I NEVER noticed the weight of that fuel tank until jumping back on the TC after riding the Vision for a while. Not having a trunk on it I didnt feel what you did but I know during the Demo day it was differnt feeling to me. Sounds like an easy trick to keep your steed in balance. Safe ridin out there!!!
Tim |
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