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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Been doing a little research on oil filters lately and have found out some interesting facts about some those listed for our Visions. Now I'm not trying to start another oil thread here, so this is just for informational purposes only. For those of you that are using aftermarket oil filters a heed of warning about a popular brand name filter that a lot of you maybe be buying that could be damaging your engine. If you are using the Purolator filter #PL14610 or the #PL14620 you might want to stop and switch to the motorcycle equivalent. The bypass pressure valve setting is too high for our bikes. Our bikes oil pumps are designed to run with a bypass pressure of only 8-9 psi. These filters have a back pressure of 14-18 which is very bad. This could actually help starve the upper portion of motors once the filter starts to get a little dirty.
The filters I have found that have the correct bypass pressures are the ones listed below:
WIX WX51358
WIX WX51365
WIX WX51365XP (synthetic media)
Purolator ML16817
Purolator ML16819
Fram PH6017A
Fram PH7317 ( this one is rare to find around here, longer filter housing)
and of course the Polaris one listed for our bikes.
Haven't complied a complete list of all the manufacturers, but these are some the major brands I figure most of us are using. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | And what about the wix 51356? Don't see that on your list. That is the one a lot of use.
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | varyder - 2013-04-24 7:03 AM
And what about the wix 51356?? Don't see that on your list.? That is the one a lot of use.
Same here.
Is convenient because my truck and wife's car all use this same WIX Filter.
Edited by Boots 2013-04-24 9:25 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | varyder - 2013-04-24 8:03 AM
And what about the wix 51356?? Don't see that on your list.? That is the one a lot of use.
The 51358 he listed IS the listed filter for our Victory and many other bikes (such as the Goldwings). It's motorcycle specific, meaning it's about 3/4 inch shorter to fit in the confined spaces of many motorcycles. The exact same filter, except for being 3/4 inch longer is the 51356. Since the Victory has no space limitation, it can be used instead. Either is correct for the Victory. If you go into the auto parts store and ask them to look up the filter for a Victory, you'll probably be handed the 51358 since it is what is actually listed.
Wix makes the filters for the NAPA and Carquest chains. The NAPA Gold equivalent of the 51356 is the 1356 and the Carquest is the 85356. Same deal for the 51358. NAPA Gold 1358, Carquest 85358.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Odd, I go to the Wix site and go to the Motorcycle listing and the Filter for the Victory Vision 51356. Not trying to argue with you, and I'm fully aware that other filters can work just as well, longer, or shorter, but the only recommended Wix filter that I knew of is 51356. Where did you find your information, another forum? |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | I guess it depends on which way you go to their website. I got it two different ways and the older website shows the 51356, but the newer site shows the other two. Go figure! By the specs, the 51356 shows to have the right bypass pressure. I mainly wanted to post about the Purolator filters because I knew a few on here that had been using them. It maybe the reason some are hearing the valves clatter on start ups.
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | varyder, if you use the cross reference feature and put in say the Fram PH6017A it will give you the 51358 number instead of the 51356. Depends what other filter cross reference number you use. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | I've got a K&P. |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I just use the one that comes in the Victory oil change kit...Why mess with success...It seems to work fine for me..So many aftermarket items are sometimes risky, sometimes not...I'll stick with Ma Vic filters and hopefully will have no worries.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | varyder - 2013-04-24 6:01 PM
Odd, I go to the Wix site and go to the Motorcycle listing and the Filter for the Victory Vision 51356. Not trying to argue with you, and I'm fully aware that other filters can work just as well, longer, or shorter, but the only recommended Wix filter that I knew of is 51356. Where did you find your information, another forum?
I guess you could say that. I started recommending the Wix 51356 as a good alternative to the Victory filter about 13 years ago on the old Yahoo forum when there was a LOT of discussion about oils and filters and Victory motorcycles. The listed filter for Victory at that time was the 51358 and I suggested the 51356 as a cheaper alternative to both the Wix 51358 and the Victory filter. The old Yahoo forum morphed into the current Victory Motorcycle Club (VMC) of which I am a charter member (#13). I was the one who suggested the Wix filters be added to the original parts cross reference.
Now, 13 years later, you'll find both filters listed depending on which cross reference you look at. The 51358 is the one that matches the Victory filter in length. The 51356 is longer, but less expensive.
For those who feel that they don't want to take a chance on anything but a Victory branded filter (at $9 or so), I would suggest they consider the fact that Victory has their filters made by a filter manufacturer, and I would ask them to compare a Wix filter physically side by side with a Victory branded filter and show me the differences. I do not know who does make the filters for Victory, but the Wix looked just like the Victory filter 13 years ago. I haven't compared them lately, since I've been using the Wix/NAPA for so long.
Ronnie |
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Cruiser
Posts: 238
SF Bay Area | yup...
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| You can get the Wix filter at your local NAPA store. All their Gold filters are Wix. I have used K&N, Amsoil and NAPA Gold over the years.
How many times has anyone in 15 years had their oil filter use it's bypass? Another marketing ploy? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| I've always used the Napa gold on everything I drive. Good filters and a good price. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| The research I did tells me that the 51358 is not only shorter but has a lower bypass pressure. Which is what most motor cycles want. O'Riely's parts look up shows 51356 for a Victory. Clerks say that the Motorcycle guy's use the 51358. I did see where it has a blow out pressure of 215lb. What ever that is. My guess is thats when it comes apart. I couldn't find the blow out pressure for the Victory 51356 |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | wingit3611 - 2013-04-25 8:33 AM
The research I did tells me that the 51358 is not only shorter but has a lower bypass pressure. Which is what most motor cycles want. O'Riely's parts look up shows 51356 for a Victory. Clerks say that the Motorcycle guy's use the 51358. I did see where it has a blow out pressure of 215lb. What ever that is. My guess is thats when it comes apart. I couldn't find the blow out pressure for the Victory 51356
Hmmm.
My research shows the bypass pressure to be 8 pounds on one and 8 to 11 on the other and the blow out pressure to be a lot higher than what you listed.
I buy mine here in case lots, along with filters for my other stuff so I get the volume discount.
51358 has 265 pound burst rating http://www.fleetfilter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=...
51356 has 363 pound burst rating http://www.fleetfilter.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=...
If anybody cares, here's some filter comparisons http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter-comparisons.html
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2013-04-25 11:03 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| Does anyone know who makes the Victory/Polaris oil filters?? |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | It has been posited in the past that Wix makes filters for Victory. I don't know that to be a fact, but the 51356 has worked very well for me, and externally is identical. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | A filter that is a bit longer has more surface area to become plugged. That means a bit longer life to me. If the bypass pressures and filter particle ratings are comparable, the filters should work just as well as each other until they reach that pressure drop. Once they are bypassing, they are no longer filters at all, they are just so much piping. A filter on a Vic, with running oil pressures of around 75 psi, means that a low relatively DP, be it 7 psid or 14 psid means nothing in terms of oil flow. A drop of 15 psid for that "less desirable" filter will still leave 60 psi to the bearings and such with a fully plugged filter. That is plenty for lubrication. The difference in dp can only matter to someone with a filter to sell, not to a real world filter user. A real world user will get plenty of oil flow at all times from either configuration. Choose whatever filter you prefer, it will work just fine.
Edited by Oldman47 2013-04-25 7:56 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| drbudd: Thanks for the info, great chart. I hate to ask this but are all paper element filters 21 micron filter? They don't show that on the chart so I suppose everyone knows it but me. The K&N metal I beleive is 10 micron. If the oil film under pressure in the engine is 21 micon or more then that would be fine. You don't need a 10 micron, just extra security. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Got the name wrong, Sorry Oldman47: From another old old man. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Would the 51356XP be worth the little bit extra? |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | The 51365XP is a synthetic media filter instead of the paper. I believe it is a 10 micron filter media designed for use with synthetic oils. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | I use the Purolator L14610. Any info good or bad on y=this one? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 281
| Interesting read.
I've been using the Wix 51356 since 2007 on all my Vics.
Since I often use the Mobil 1 v-twin synthetic should I use the Wix 51356XP? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Double Vision - 2013-04-27 6:03 PM
Interesting read.
I've been using the Wix 51356 since 2007 on all my Vics.
Since I often use the Mobil 1 v-twin synthetic should I use the Wix 51356XP?
I've been using the Wix 51356 / NAPA Gold 1356 with synthetic oil since 2000. No issues.
To answer the question about the Purolator (or any other brand) filters, I'm sure they're fine. I started using the Wix filter because they are a premium filter and they save me money compared to many others. They cost me $4.81 each, including the shipping to my front door.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| I was changing the oil filter on my 1960 Ranchero with a Ford 302. The filter is a Carquest Racing filter and it says right on it "Made by Wix". Just another source for us. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | You know, ever since this thread came up, I have scoured the internet. I have been using the PureOne PL14610, and will probably change to Wix/Napa Gold/CARQUEST, whichever is cheapest at the time, since they are all the same. And since there is maybe a couple dollars difference between them and the PureOne. However, in all that I could find and read, no one was certain. Lots of ifs, maybes, and I thinks. Not one posting that I could find, had drawn a direct line between an oil filter's bypass psi set too high, the motorcycle engine failure, and was damaged or had be rebuilt. I did find lots of HD'ers who are told that use of the wrong oil filter can void their warranty. Just found this interesting. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Whether the bypass is at 5 psi or 15 psi should not matter for these bikes. The idle pressure of the oil pump is close to 50 psi so it will bypass plenty soon enough if it gets plugged and will still deliver at least 35 psi to the bearings even then. Do not look for a failure of oil delivery with any reasonable filter, it just will not happen. |
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