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Cruiser
Posts: 179
CARTAGENA Spain | SOMETHING IS FOR THE INSTALLATION OF UPPER AIR FILTER VICTORY VISION ON VOY OR HAS any modification to the engine or EXHAUST PIPES |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | I just put one in. According to Lloyd it is dyno tested to provide 7 hp and 8 ft lbs of torque WITH NO OTHER MODS. Not really sure what your question is. I can feel a difference. Also, if you do cams the upper filter is required.
http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000120
Edited by cw1115 2013-02-28 5:22 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I think he is asking if you just install the upper filter with anotherwise stock engine/exhaust do you have to re-flash or buy a fuel controller...I have the Vic Stage 1 kit with dealer install and I wonder myself if I install the Lloydz upper filter do I need to re-flash or install a fuel controller???? I suppose I could call Lloydz or Rylan and ask them which I will soon.... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | The quick answer is yes. The stock Victory exhaust if very free flowing. As a matter of fact, it's free flowing enough that the only 2 reasons you'd ever NEED to change it is either for the sound or because you're doing a big motor (like a 116" ). If you introduce more air into the system (which you're definitely doing by adding Lloydz upper filter), you'll run lean (you already have a free flowing exhaust). In order to compensate for that, you need to either reflash the ECM or get a fuel controller. If that's all you're going to do, the VFC should work fine. If you're planning on other performance mods in the future (like cams), you might want to consider the PC-V. The PC-V is more expensive and requires a dyno tune.
Edited by Monkeyman 2013-03-01 2:55 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| Monkeyman....Thanks so much for the info and explaining this issue....I will see what the future brings on this change....Regards Opas Ride |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | So I have a modified exhaust and victory performance filter and stage 1 flash do I still need a fuel controller if I go upper filter? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| PhantomX - 2013-03-01 11:33 AM
So I have a modified exhaust and victory performance filter and stage 1 flash do I still need a fuel controller if I go upper filter?
No.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | What Turk said and the modified exhaust doesn't matter anyway. The modified exhaust isn't making the bike breathe easier. It's just making the bike louder and/or sound better. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 160
Camas Washington | have the upper filter and putting glasspacks on. No need to flash. The bikes are 21 century bikes people, they have chip that will adjust to simple mods like adding the filter or exhust. One way to help the bike/chip adjust is after installing and running it a few miles, disconnect the battery for a couple of minutes then hook up and restart. It's like rebooting a computer. It will learn to adjust. This is no difference then if you were riding at sea level then climb to a 7,000 foot pass, the fuel injection will adjust. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | KevinX told me that if I drilled out my stock pipes to disconnect the O2 sensors. He stated the the bikes are already tuned on the lean side and the exhaust mod will lean it out even more. Not good for the motor. Now I have the L1S2 and intake and left the sensors unplugged. Bike runs great.
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Cruiser
Posts: 179
CARTAGENA Spain | My question is that IF ONLY WEAR UPPER AIR FILTER GAIN POWER OR NO |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Lexington Park, MD | Yes, you will gain power by changing only the upper air filter |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| adolfoch - 2013-03-01 3:48 PM My question is that IF ONLY WEAR UPPER AIR FILTER GAIN POWER OR NO YES YOU WILL GAIN think of it this way. If you were running a foot race how far and fast would you be if you could only breath threw your noise. Now run the same race breathing threw your mouth. Same for bike the more air they get the faster the gas goes in and burns |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| The stage 1 map, other than supplying a little more fuel, has a much more refined "personality" if you will. It is just smoother, and doesn't have that decel lean hiccup at around 1700 rpm.
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
| Was going to order the upper filter and adjustable intake from Rylan
I am planning on installing filter and intake now.
Have S1L1 now and was going to add adj. cam timing gear later in the year.
Will I need a fuel controller. I was going to ride over to Iowa to have Rylan install the gear.
I figured if I needed controller would install at that time and have him tune as well.
Would like your opinions.
Thanks Rick |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | Riverdawg - 2013-03-01 1:04 PM
have the upper filter and putting glasspacks on. No need to flash. The bikes are 21 century bikes people, they have chip that will adjust to simple mods like adding the filter or exhust. One way to help the bike/chip adjust is after installing and running it a few miles, disconnect the battery for a couple of minutes then hook up and restart. It's like rebooting a computer. It will learn to adjust. This is no difference then if you were riding at sea level then climb to a 7,000 foot pass, the fuel injection will adjust.
While this is a 21st century bike as you say, the parameters in the ECU only go so far. By drilling my stock pipes out only (I driled 6 1/2" holes in the ends and drilled the baffle out) the ECU show'ed codes for being outside it's parameters and the bike was running lean when we monitored it with the Victory software. Stage 1 put it back into it's working range. The ECU's have a range they work through, to many changes puts you outside the working range of the ECU and it will just do things like go full rich to try and compensate for lean conditions and just dump fuel. My fuel economy went up 2mpg after the S1 flash. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | If I remember right, a top filter, PC-v and pipes will get you between 91-93HP at the rear tire. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 179
CARTAGENA Spain | I have said that putting the air cleaner earns superior power at high revs but low miss something. this is so |
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Cruiser
Posts: 142
elgin mn | low end power should be the same. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 12
GREEN RIVER, WY | I put the upper Lloyds air filter in with noting else, The vision runs great and puts you back in the seat. Some have talk there is a little more intake noise that can happen at 2600 -2900 rpm if you dont like it just crank the throttle a little more. At crusing speed for me at 75mph you dont notice much if any intake noise unless you are in that 2600-2900 range which is about 60mph just shift down get the rev up a little. At 75+ in 6 gear it right at 3gs rpm and sounds good all with stock pipes it doesnt sound like a harly but a 6 litter v8 just crank it up! I live at 6500 ft elavation it has made a huge differnce for me I cant imagine how 116 with cams & upper air filter feels like. But im happy with the way it sits know. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | rev.rr - 2013-03-05 12:04 AM
I put the upper Lloyds air filter in with noting else, The vision runs great and puts you back in the seat.
Nothing else done to the engine; no ECM reflash? Not running lean?
Do you clean and oil the upper Lloyds air filter... like a K&N Filter?
Edited by willtill 2013-03-05 3:31 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Riverdawg - 2013-03-01 2:04 PM
have the upper filter and putting glasspacks on. No need to flash. The bikes are 21 century bikes people, they have chip that will adjust to simple mods like adding the filter or exhust. One way to help the bike/chip adjust is after installing and running it a few miles, disconnect the battery for a couple of minutes then hook up and restart. It's like rebooting a computer. It will learn to adjust. This is no difference then if you were riding at sea level then climb to a 7,000 foot pass, the fuel injection will adjust.
These bikes barely have 20th century FI systems. Closer to a mid 70's Super Beetle then a current car. Unless you have some way to trick your MAP sensor. It is NOTHING like traveling from sea level to 7000 feet. All hooked up these bikes have less the a 5% correction factor. So if you change flow more then that; you are out of bounds |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I would question that a stock bike or one with the Stage1 kit, without a re-flash or fuel controller runs fine with just the upper intake air filter. Maybe for a while, but increasing the air flow and not adjusting the fuel make-up somehow, the bike has got to run way lean.....It is my understanding they are "border-line" lean from factory now just to comply with EPA regs....I would not want to run the risk of burning valves/etc. without adjusting, in some way, the fuel mixture to a richer mix...JMHO. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Question - Do you clean and oil the upper Lloyds air filter... like a K&N Filter?
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | willtill - 2013-03-05 2:36 PM
Question - Do you clean and oil the upper Lloyds air filter... like a K&N Filter?
Not the original foam filter, the new ones I don't know. The second generation looks cleanable....... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | willtill - 2013-03-05 3:36 PM
Question - Do you clean and oil the upper Lloyds air filter... like a K&N Filter?
Yes |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 12
GREEN RIVER, WY | tourer nothing else done just the lodys upper air filter maybe cams in the future it runs great took it to the dealer last Friday for a new rear tire very happy with the filter. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 12
GREEN RIVER, WY | willtill I don't think you oil the upper filter, it looks like a k&n filter but blue in color I will check with Llodz and get back to you. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | I just put mine in a couple of weeks ago. The install guide makes no mention of oiling it. |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | I did S1L2 pipes, then removed the baffles. Put K&N in front air filter. Bike runs great as far as I'm concerned, but want to install upper air filter. I'm not sure my bike has been mapped/reflashed.
1) How can I tell the current mapping version?
2) Is soot buildup inside exhaust pipes indication of too lean?
3) Can someone please post pics showing mod install? Before, during, after
4) $85 and not designed to be cleaned?
Edited by Boots 2013-03-27 9:56 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | I believe it is cleanable, just doesn't require oil.
My last Vision had a fuel controller and was dyno tuned by Lloyd and I still was unable to keep my tips clean. Lloyd said it was crap fuel we use, not a rich condition.
I took a couple of photos with the intake plate removed and the filter in place. Doubt the will be much help.
It's very easy. Remove the center console and it's right there. An extra set of hands would be helpful to hold the wires out of the way while you maneuver the filter in place. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | So this upper air filter takes some sort of Form-a-Gasket to install it? And you would have to remove the gasket sealant and reapply each time your removed the filter for cleaning? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Yes, it does. Lloyd recently redesigned the filter with a rigid base plate. I was not going to use sealer but decided to run to the store and spend $5 to do it as instructed. The one I bought never actually gets hard, so removal in the future should be easy. I'll look at the package for you when I get home tomorrow.
Edited by cw1115 2013-03-27 1:00 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| The one I have never actually gets hard either......Oops, Sorry forgot we were talking about gasket sealer on air filters..!!!!(just kidding)At 73 it is sometimes difficult to stay focused..... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl |  |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Let's stay focused opas ride. I haven't been quite that fast to pick up a phrase and misinterpret it since I was maybe 14. Today I am 65 and would completely disagree with your first sentiment, at least for me. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | I have the Ness Twin Suckers; clean and oil both using a K&N kit. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 12
GREEN RIVER, WY | I just got this messageback from Lloyd Greer about the upper air blue filter Lloyd said "The filter is oiled and you wont have to clean it for 30K miles. Regarding the need for a tune up or controller for the stock vision He said "if the bike is running fine leave it alone"  I use to run heavy equipment getting more air in the engine meant more power and less service. Having two air filters on the vic its awesome I'm going for a ride today to start accumulating more of those 30,000 miles cause it runs so good now! Thank you Victory for a great bike and Lloyds for a little bit more power down low and all the way though the power range. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Well; I have decided and ordered the Lloydz's upper air filter from his website a couple of minutes ago.... I have earlier; pulled my spark plugs and they do look "leanish" not "white" but a very bright gray... I am still considering the Dobeck Fuel controller with the generous military discount... as opposed to Lloydz VFC.... I have some "feelers" out regarding the difference between the two... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Willtill, it is Permatex #2 form-a-gasket. Non-hardening
Edited by cw1115 2013-03-31 8:41 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | cw1115 - 2013-03-31 9:41 AM
Willtill, it is Permatex #2 form-a-gasket. Non-hardening
Thanks! |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 32
Galesburg, IL | When we installed my Lloydz upper air filter we called the Lloydz shop to ask about the gasket sealer. They said it is not "required". After installing this and disconnecting the O2 sensors (everything else is stock), I am EXTREMELY happy with the less than $100 performance upgrade!
I also like the muscle car-ish sound when I turn the throttle! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | +1 on just disconnecting O2 sensors. That was Kevin's suggestion when I drilled out my stock pipes to richen it up. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| cw1115 - 2013-04-10 9:34 AM +1 on just disconnecting O2 sensors. That was Kevin's suggestion when I drilled out my stock pipes to richen it up. Your statement makes it sound like disconnection the O2 sensors makes it run richer. Is that what you ment? It has aways been my understanding that disconnecting the O2 sensors mades the IAC default to lean. |
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Vision Intake Filter UPPER