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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | I bought the Victory Vision for many reasons; one of them being a little less maintenance required as you amass mileage. I know all about having to attend to the normal fair, wear and tear as well as consumables that's indicative of motorcycle maintenance and operation. I've always done the maintenance myself. What I especially liked was the lack of valve adjustments.
What I DON'T LIKE is the frikken requirement to change the front fork fluid every frikken 15, 000 miles... WTF?
And the Vic's front shocks are a pain to deal with; needing to compress that spring and all. I can do it.. but I planned to ride this particular bike out of my other two a lot more, without having to fuck with the GAWD DAMNED fork tubes EVERY 15K... What the hell !!! 
Thanks for letting me vent.
Edited by willtill 2012-12-20 6:55 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Don't sweat it. The world ends tomorrow, if you ain't done it yet, it don't matter! I have almost 40k on mine and haven't done it once. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | I prefer to ride it instead of work on it. If it required a lot maintenance I would have gotten rid of it a long time ago. I will rebuild the fork at some point in the future, but I'm not pulling them off every 15k. Remember back when some forks had a little drain screw at the bottom? Oil changes took about 10 minutes per side. Next up is pneumatic forks. You won't have to worry about messing with a spring when that technology finally becomes the common place. Might be a while before you see them on a Victory though. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | victoryvisiontour - 2012-12-20 9:16 PM
I prefer to ride it instead of work on it. If it required a lot maintenance I would have gotten rid of it a long time ago. I will rebuild the fork at some point in the future, but I'm not pulling them off every 15k. Remember back when some forks had a little drain screw at the bottom? Oil changes took about 10 minutes per side. Next up is pneumatic forks. You won't have to worry about messing with a spring when that technology finally becomes the common place. Might be a while before you see them on a Victory though.
My 1986 Kawasaki Voyager XII had pneumatic forks. They were a wonderful marvel until the fork seals wore out and the forks were permanently bottomed out with no spring action at all, until they were rebuilt. Be careful what you wish for.
Victory would do well to copy the 2 stage centerstand that Kawasaki came up with for the Voyager XII though.
Ronnie |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | rdbudd - 2012-12-20 10:36 PM
victoryvisiontour - 2012-12-20 9:16 PM
I prefer to ride it instead of work on it. If it required a lot maintenance I would have gotten rid of it a long time ago. I will rebuild the fork at some point in the future, but I'm not pulling them off every 15k. Remember back when some forks had a little drain screw at the bottom? Oil changes took about 10 minutes per side. Next up is pneumatic forks. You won't have to worry about messing with a spring when that technology finally becomes the common place. Might be a while before you see them on a Victory though.
My 1986 Kawasaki Voyager XII had pneumatic forks. They were a wonderful marvel until the fork seals wore out and the forks were permanently bottomed out with no spring action at all, until they were rebuilt. Be careful what you wish for.
Victory would do well to copy the 2 stage centerstand that Kawasaki came up with for the Voyager XII though.
Ronnie
Sounds like your Voyager only needed the fork seals cleaned or replaced, not rebuilt. Technology of modern pneumatic forks does not compare to anything of the past. The Showa units can be ran with no pressure and they still work well enough to ride. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | You guys don't get it. This scheduled maintenance is just a good excuse to upgrade. When my forks need that 15k mile service (spring '14, God willing), it'll also be time for some of Witchdoctors powdercoated/milled fork tubes. Since the forks have to be disassembled for the new fork tubes, I win. I'll do an oil change in the spring (early but after sitting for the winter, I'll feel better). What better time for my new K&P filter assembly? I could go on. Just make the most of it. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | For those that let the dealer do a job like this (along with doing the headset bearing lube) what can I expect to pay? I've got about 150 miles and my 15k is due (not bad for less than year of riding!). |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | The dealer near me quoted $150.00 for a fluid change in my front shocks; if I just brought the shock tubes in. But he said he couldn't guarantee his work if I did so.
That's why I'm doing it myself. No way to verify if they actually changed the fluid. I can't ever recall having a good dealer experience regarding maintenance for a bike that I have brought in; in the past.
That's why I do everything myself. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 135
Chesterfield, VA | I'm also coming up on my 15,000 mile service.? On my previous bike (2009 Vision) the dealer told me they didn't routinely change the fork oil at 15,000 miles if the seal wasn't leaking.? Not sure?if they really knew what they were talking about or not, but it makes me wonder if they really need a fluid change at 15,000.? Has anyone seen the Witchdoctor (Jon) video on replacing the seals and changing the fork oil (on a Kingpin I believe)??? He removed the whole internal spring assembly replaced the seals and forkoil without disassembling the spring.? Can this also be done on the Vision??? I imagine the procedure would be similar.? It's a much simpler method and requires no special tools. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4EvgiA9-Rg&feature=channel&list=UL
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | victoryvisiontour - 2012-12-20 10:34 PM
Sounds like your Voyager only needed the fork seals cleaned or replaced, not rebuilt. Technology of modern pneumatic forks does not compare to anything of the past. The Showa units can be ran with no pressure and they still work well enough to ride.
Yes, new seals fixed them. The Voyager pneumatic forks still had conventional springs also, but when there was no air pressure to help them then the forks would bottom out on any bump. The bike was still rideable , but not very comfortable or confidence inspiring. Of course, when the seals blew out, a lot of fork oil was lost and the damping also went away. Technically, the bike was still rideable. Seems like they were Showa forks too.
I do miss the 2 stage centerstand on that bike though. I wish I had one on my Vision.
Ronnie |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| sarvbill - 2012-12-21 3:58 AM
Has anyone seen the Witchdoctor (Jon) video on replacing the seals and changing the fork oil (on a Kingpin I believe)??? He removed the whole internal spring assembly replaced the seals and forkoil without disassembling the spring.? Can this also be done on the Vision??? I imagine the procedure would be similar.? It's a much simpler method and requires no special tools.
I don't see how for a few reasons:
1. The damping cartridge has oil in it and really needs to be pumped to get it all out. You can't do that with the spring installed.
2. The oil level is set with the cartridge installed and pumped but not the spring. The idea is to set the amount of oil based on its level rather than its volume.
3. The cartridge has to be pumped by hand to fill it up previous to setting the level. Can't do that with the spring installed.
BTW, if you have an 8-Ball its a snap since the spring isn't preloaded. Traxxion makes an inexpensive spring compressor as well as a more sophisticated one. The cheap one is usable if you have someone to help. I did it alone and it was a pain. I'll buy their better one next time. I did mine at 30K and it definitely needed new bushings and the action was getting pretty sticky by then. The parts are pretty cheap. I got them from Traxxion. I bought a level setting tool from the local bike supply. I think it was like $20 or so.
It is a messy job for sure but pretty simple :-) I also lubed the triple tree bearings at the same time. That is something I wouldn't do again only because I'm not flexible enough anymore otherwise its no big deal.
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | I don't worry about fork maint. Got over 40k and I haven't even thought about it in the 20K I put on the Visionquest. I'm terrible about maint. I haven't done anything but change the oil and filter. I haven't even cracked my owners manual open to look at a maint. schedule. As long as the bike is running good, I just ride it.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| Too each his own as they say......I agree some of us spend way to much time doing what we think is necessary maintenance on our bikes...I want my bike to run as best it can so I follow the owners manual as much as possible as I have never had any real serious issues by doing so......A lot of maint. requirements depend on how hard/easy we ride.....Whatever makes one happy with his ride is all that really matters in the long run.......JMHO |
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Cruiser
Posts: 78
| Can a traxxion replacement/upgrade be done at longer intervals than 15,000? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | I agree with doing all NECESSARY maintenance for a long life but some maintenance items aren't always necessary as the book says, like the belt change. I'll probably have the fork oil changed at the right time as I'll be getting Witchdoctor front end parts at the same time. One has to be done with the other but if I wasn't planning on getting bling....who knows. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 80
| Fork oil isn't subject to engine combustion heat or gear shear, so it stays relatively clean for a long time. Oils and seals have improved over the years. Victory mechanics have told me not to worry about it. The oil will be changed if and when new fork tube seals are needed. That's good advice!
Denny Pink
2008 Vision
2002 V92C
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Tourer
Posts: 520
Simi Valley, CA | My forks were rebuilt at 45k, under warranty when I had a small leak. Only cost me $50. I would not have done it unless it was leaking. The only regular maintenance I do is Oil changes (3k), and brakes when I change tires. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Denny Pink - 2012-12-21 2:02 PM
Fork oil isn't subject to engine combustion heat or gear shear, so it stays relatively clean for a long time. Oils and seals have improved over the years.I'll tell ya, Denny, you might change your mind if you had seen the bushings that came out of mine at 30K. All the bearing material was worn away on the thrust side leaving only the backing. All that crud gets in the oil which was completely black. I think there must be a lot of load on the Vision's forks to wear the bushings out like that.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| bigdogtx - 2012-12-21 12:24 PM
Can a traxxion replacement/upgrade be done at longer intervals than 15,000?I just emailed Martin at Traxxion to ask his opinion. I'll post his response.
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Cometman - 2012-12-21 6:51 PM
My forks were rebuilt at 45k, under warranty when I had a small leak. Only cost me $50. I would not have done it unless it was leaking. The only regular maintenance I do is Oil changes (3k), and brakes when I change tires.
Interesting. So the dealer took care of your leaking fork(s) even though you did not change the fork fluid at every 15K, per their maintenance schedule ??? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 96
Princeton, IL | Monkeyman - 2012-12-21 12:56 AM
You guys don't get it. This scheduled maintenance is just a good excuse to upgrade. When my forks need that 15k mile service (spring '14, God willing), it'll also be time for some of Witchdoctors powdercoated/milled fork tubes. Since the forks have to be disassembled for the new fork tubes, I win. I'll do an oil change in the spring (early but after sitting for the winter, I'll feel better). What better time for my new K&P filter assembly? I could go on. Just make the most of it.
I agree with this whole heartedly. I did mine at 60000 miles. They worked fine, I think, but I wanted them powdercoated so I did both, minimized the down time and killed 2 birds with one stone. I am as happy as a clam!
Edited by SammyJ 2012-12-21 8:51 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 96
Princeton, IL | Double post - sorry!
Edited by SammyJ 2012-12-21 8:50 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
| Oil IS OIL it breaks down.I change mine every fall,It is not that hard to do.You do not have to take the forks apart change the oil. |
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Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | I posted pics of what the stock fluid looked like when I changed my '09's fork fluid at 23,000 miles while replacing a front tire. It was doing its job & had a lot of suspended solids in it-could not see any sunlight through it. I got no problem performing scheduled maintenance and take great peace of mind knowing that it was done by someone I trust my life with, who was not in a hurry & always uses the best fluids available -me.
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6457&pos... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | ByteN2it - 2012-12-22 8:49 AM
I posted pics of what the stock fluid looked like when I changed my '09's fork fluid at 23,000 miles while replacing a front tire. It was doing its job & had a lot of suspended solids in it-could not see any sunlight through it. I got no problem performing scheduled maintenance and take great peace of mind knowing that it was done by someone I trust my life with, who was not in a hurry & always uses the best fluids available -me.
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6457&pos...
Thanks for your post and link. Great homemade fork spring compression tool! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | My take on it is if you like a well performing machine then you will do some sort of maintenance, As the tires and oils slowly degrade over time we become used to the way it is and think all is well. Sometimes we accept what may be a safety issue as ok cause you have learned how to deal with it.
Who ever drove a car/ truck that in order to keep it going down the middle of the lane you needed to constantly turn the wheel from right to left. Owner thought it was normal but until someone else got behind the wheel it was a non issue.
Those of us who have many miles on our bikes know how much better the bike corners with a new front tire no matter the brand and no matter the bike.
So that's two wins... One in Performance and one in Safety.
If you want to ride or drive a machine when it is performing at its best then you will need to do maintenance. The front forks and its oil are part of the performance package.
Sure they will continue to go in and out up and down without being serviced but left unserviced forever you are shorting yourself on what the Vision has to offer over time.
I am just shot of 90,000 and have changes the fluid twice. I have also used non vic oil and different weights. So on average I have gone twice as long as the recommended schedule. Next time I plan on changing the seals and upper bushing. BTW I did a head bearing service at 50 K and that really helped.
The spring tool that I made really is a needed item for the early forks.
So off I go and I hope you all get something good under the tree!
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| marcparnes - 2012-12-21 3:45 PM
bigdogtx - 2012-12-21 12:24 PM
Can a traxxion replacement/upgrade be done at longer intervals than 15,000?I just emailed Martin at Traxxion to ask his opinion. I'll post his response.
Marc
Just heard from Martin at Traxxion:
"The service interval on forks is usually 20-25K. The first thing that usually wears out is the inner fork bushings."
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | It looks like the Traxxion system is between $2500-$3000. W..O..W!!! At $300 for a shop to do all the work, I'm ok with the OEM front end every 15k miles. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Actually the front Traxxion suspension was $1100 and I installed it. To be honest, the 8-Ball springs and cartridges I installed on my '10 Vision worked just as well as the Traxxion setup does for a couple hundred dollars. The 8-Ball setup supplies a beautiful ride. The Traxxion has compression and rebound adjustments but I've never really used them since I was more interested in a comfortable ride than anything else.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Monkeyman - 2012-12-27 10:17 AM
It looks like the Traxxion system is between $2500-$3000. W..O..W!!! At $300 for a shop to do all the work, I'm ok with the OEM front end every 15k miles.Actually the Traxxion cartridges have no bearing on service intervals. The parts that wear which are the bushings are part of the OE fork and are the same regardless of the cartridges installed. I only asked Martin his opinion since he has lots of experience looking at worn forks and to see if he felt they could go further than the factory suggests which he did. Nothing to do with Traxxion. Sorry if that was confusing.
Marc |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| the difference between new bushing and ones with 60 thousand miles on them is 3 thousand.
The fork oil doesn't really wear out but can be contaminated with condensation. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | johnnyvision - 2012-12-27 2:50 PM the difference between new bushing and ones with 60 thousand miles on them is 3 thousand. The fork oil doesn't really wear out but can be contaminated with condensation. Johnny, So your telling us that after 60k on you 08 Vision the bushing had worn .003 on its ID ? Did you also notice a difference after the change? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | So I have a dealer quoting me 8hrs labor for the 15k service @ $65 an hour. This sound right? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | $500 for the 15k mile service?? I can see that for the 30k mile service (minus the belt change). I'll bet you could find an independent to do that for you for less than 1/2. The service manual might say to remove all the front tupperware but I'll bet you can disconnect the front brakes, loosen about 4 bolts and drop the forks right out of the triple tree. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | What a RIOT you guys are !
Funniest goshdarn bunch I ever saw words on a screen from .... you should all get together and write a comedy!
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| PhantomX - 2013-01-02 9:20 PM So I have a dealer quoting me 8hrs labor for the 15k service @ $65 an hour. This sound right? The labor rate is great buts the hours sound a bit much. Harley put new seals and bushing my HD for three hours. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | donetracey - 2013-01-03 1:57 AM
What a RIOT you guys are !
Funniest goshdarn bunch I ever saw words on a screen from .... you should all get together and write a comedy!
Are you drinking again? What has thou contributed? |
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Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | If you can't hold a wrench learn to hold your ankles. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | ByteN2it - 2013-01-03 6:25 PM
If you can't hold a wrench learn to hold your ankles.
touche'
(that's french.. I think he'll understand that)  |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Just 'shit disturbing', folks.
As I have aged, I find that life is too frikin' short to waste any of it 'tinkering' - I'd rather be riding or playing with my Co-Pilot. But the lengths some of you go I just find amusing - that's why I read this stuff. Sorry if that bothers some of you!
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | donetracey - 2013-01-03 5:17 PM
Just 'shit disturbing', folks.
As I have aged, I find that life is too frikin' short to waste any of it 'tinkering' - I'd rather be riding or playing with my Co-Pilot. But the lengths some of you go I just find amusing - that's why I read this stuff. Sorry if that bothers some of you!
I agree! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| Some people find tinkering fun. For some reason you find that amusing. You do your thing and let others do theirs. I'm sure a few people would disagree with your choices but I haven't seen anyone ridicule you. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Some people do enjoy wrenching. That's great for those who have the inclination, skill set, or money. I have neither so I ride ( on unserviced forks) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 259
Land O Lakes, FL | Finally got a firm quote from them, 5hrs labor (@$65) and parts. Should be under $400 for the full 15k service so it's going in next week to get done! |
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Really something that pisses me off about the Vision...