|
|
Puddle Jumper
Posts: 13
| I have been debating to trade my 2002 Honda Gold Wing for a 2013. Any previous Goldwing owners who made the switch out there & if so did they miss the Wing? Any input will be greatly appreciated!
TKS!!! | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | If you're asking if any current Vision riders used to be Goldwing riders, then the answer is yes.
Check this thread out http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11433&po...
Ronnie | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | 2002 is a long time. I'm sure that you are very accustomed to your Wing. Only you can make the final decision to switch.
I have ridden many different styled bikes through my motorcycling years; and currently have a Vision, A Triumph Rocket 3 (enhanced with Carpenter's 240 Silverback package :-) ) and a Suzuki DR650SE.
My previous (many motorcycles I do not miss (well some of them...) ...but if you are again contemplating a Vision... do it.
You could be dead tomorrow... and never know what you missed out on. | |
| | |
Cruiser
Posts: 143
Lexington Park, MD | When you DO take your test ride, you will want to make sure it is long enough to get the feel of this bike. Like another VV rider told me when I was about to pull the trigger on a GW, you get on a Wing, you get IN a Vision... After I rode 200-300 hundred miles on the trek home with my new steed, that is exactly what it felt like. Me part of the bike. I think the gas tank configuration REALLY plays a part in the CG of the bike giving it that TOTAL controll feeling. What I have heard from my GW buddies back seaters, and the only negative, is the 2up seat height and open-ness along with leg position for your rider. You didnt mention if your 2up or not most of the time. If so, make a ride for yourself, then one with mamma. MAKE SURE you set the shock pressure for the appropiate weight for your rides, it makes a difference. Good luck in your search. Safe ridin, Tim
Edited by Tims_11Vision 2012-12-11 7:42 PM
| |
| | |
Cruiser
Posts: 207
| My last few bikes were Valkyries and I looked at GL1800's and Victories for almost two years before deciding to buy a Vision.
As mentioned do a lot of two and one up test rides and choose the best bike for you and your passenger. For us, the Vision was by far the best ride and most comfortable for long two up trips. We carry as much luggage as we do on the Valk Interstate so space isn't the huge deal it is with some couples. | |
| | |
Cruiser
Posts: 281
| FWIW my wife & I spent a couple of days on a GW and couldn't wait to get back on the Vision.
Whatever you decide, best wishes! | |
| | |
Tourer
Posts: 500
| The Gold Wing is a little smoother with the flat 6, a little faster and has somewhat larger bags...Being only 5'9" after riding the Vision I was sold on the handling, seat height, adjustable windshield, and floorboards...My Goldwing was a good bike, but the Vision is a "great" bike....Good Luck in your choice.... | |
| | |
Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | Traded my 2010 GW after 26K for a 2011 Vision. I ride solo 98% of the time as my wife rides her own bike. The times she has ridden with me, she says the head buffeting much better on a Vision. As for me, I love the lower seat height. I am 5'-9" and can easily flat foot straddling the bike. The riding position is not as rigid as the GW because the long floor boards allow you to move your legs around. The electric windshield is the best option. You can adjust it on the fly to the right height for the riding conditions.
You give up a little bit of storage space and maybe a little bit of performance but you gain more comfort and wind management. I never said after owning a GW that I loved the bike. Every time I ride the Vision I can actually say, I LOVE THIS BIKE.
27K smiles so far | |
| | |
Cruiser
Posts: 118
Spfld, IL but temp Bay area, CA | As Tims11 says, when your significant other is riding with you, be sure to follow the air pressure shock chart in the left ide bag. I have a new riding buddy who thought the ride was somewhat rough the first time she rode with me. Befre her next ride, I corrected the rear shock for 2up riding and she now loves riding the Vision. | |
| | |
Cruiser
Posts: 277
Apopka, FL | Never owned a GW, but I have ridden my buddy's 2007 GW extensively. We swap every now and then. Just bikes, not wives! I own a 2009 Vision. It is my second Vic. While I can say I enjoy the serenity in the GW, I find it soul-less. It's too smooth. It sits too high for my 5'9" frame too. I also find the foot position very restrictive. The Vision overflows with SOUL! You feel the bike, you feel the road. You are in total control of the machine. I not only have highway pegs, I also have 22" of floorboards I can place my feet upon into any position! I can say, I love this bike!!! | |
| | |
Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| Having owned a GW prior to my Vision I'll have to agree with the Dr. The wing is a nice bike with no bad habits except the floorboards. But in my opinion it's missing something. I'm 6'2' so the seat height isn't a problem but the wing was a bit too vanilla for my tastes. | |
| | |
Puddle Jumper
Posts: 22
| I've been riding GWs since 1978. Ridden them from 1000, 1100, 1200, 1500, and 1800. Went back to a 91 1500 a few years ago for more room because the 1800 fairing is too close to my knees and more storage in the 1500. Late last summer the dealer had a new 2011 carry over Vision. Took it for a ride and bought it. Still have the 91 GW too. Can't say one is better than the other. Each is just a different ride.
For handling tho the 1800 is far head of the 1500 and better than the VV. The VV handles better than the 1500.
For leg room the VV is much nicer than either GW. The VV sits different. My 1500 GW has floorboards but the space is limited due to the heads. The seating on the 1800 without floorboards is with your feet more under you, sort of sport bike seating. I like to be able to stretch out on the VV much better.
As far as power the 1800 would run off and leave the VV without having to downshift to do it. On the 1800 roll into town into a reduced speed zone, ride thru town in high, and give her the gas on the other side and the 1800 won't shutter or complain. Roll into town on the VV in 6th gear and it's going to be rattling for a downshift.
Of course both the 1500 and 1800 flat 6 engine is a lot smoother and less vibration than the VV. Not really a fair comparison because they're just different motor designs. The vibration just comes wth a V twin and when a person gets a V twin they need to expect it.
Storage comparison is in ranking order from most to least would be the 1500 GW, 1800 GW, then the VV. The saddle bags on the VV just don't cut it and really should be redesigned for a touring bike.
As far as wind protection the VV has both 1500 and 1800 GW beat. Far better protection with the VV and none of the back push wind current of the GW. And the on-the-fly electric windshield height adjustment is a very nice touch on the VV.
As far as engine longevity I really doubt the air cooled VV is going to come close to either the 1500 or 1800 GW. People talk about their VV engines going 100,000 miles. If you've been riding GWs long you know that 100K on a GW is nothing. A GW with 100K miles still brings a good price on the used market and will still run another 100-200K. A properly maintained GW engine will run over 300K with never having a wrench on the engine. If you listen to a HD rider they brag of their high mileage engines going 60K they've only had to replace cam shoes or did an upper or some other wrenching job. If you hear of a GW with 100K that has had engine work you wonder what the owner did to tear it up and you steer clear of it.
If I decided tomorrow morning to take a cross country several thousand mile ride I'd probably flip a coin between either GW and the VV but wouldn't hesitate to take either. If I knew I was going to be traveling in 100+ deg heat everyday I'd probably take the 1500 GW as I get less heat with it than an 1800 GW and definitely less heat than an air cooled VV.
Edited by Wadcutter 2012-12-15 2:21 PM
| |
| | |
Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | My Wing buddies who ride a Vision bitch about the heat from the rear cylinder. I've been riding it for about 2 years and don't notice it any more. Redline is similar, power is similar. More engine customization options for the Vision and more power than the wing if you get cams. I need the legroom so the Vision was the winner for me. Check out the motorcycle ergonomics website. Do a google search and you'll find it. You can enter height and leg length and chose different motorcycles to see how they would fit you differently from what you are accustomed to. Good luck. | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I would only differ from Wadcutter's evaluation of the Vision vs Goldwing in two areas. One is power in high gear. He didn't compare apples to apples. The Vision has a true 6th gear overdrive, which has the Vision's engine running quite a bit slower than the Goldwing's at 70 MPH. 6th gear on the Vision is meant for the open road, not cruising through town. 5th gear is high gear, just like the GW, and you can hit 122 MPH in 5th gear on the Vision even with the speed limiter. It will run 130+ in 5th gear if you do away with the speed limiter, which some of us have done. 6th is overdrive. The only "overdrive" on the Goldwing is the indicator light that comes on when you shift it to 5th gear. The GW has no 6th gear overdrive. 5th gear on the Vision is much closer to 5th gear on the Goldwing and if you do a roll-on test with both bikes in 5th gear, they run pretty equal from 50 to 100 MPH, like when you're making a passing maneuver. The torque at the rear wheels is actually pretty close between the two bikes, but the Goldwing is geared lower in 1st gear than the Vision and "feels" more powerful because of the gearing difference. The GW will often outrun the Vision in a drag race mainly because of the very low 5500 RPM rev limit from the factory. Hitting that limiter, which is easy to do, kills forward acceleration. If you can avoid hitting that rev-limiter, the bikes are pretty close and rider weight and skill will determine the winner. The Vision can also be made more powerful than the GL1800 with just three parts that cost less than what lots of GW riders spend on plasti-chrome and lights.
The other area is probably somewhat subjective, but I think the Vision handles better than the GL1800, but it's a small difference, and the Vision definitely has more cornering clearance. The Vision also rides better than the GW and has more rear suspension travel. They are both excellent touring bikes. Ride them both, using a a full tank of gas non-stop each (200+ miles). Try to make the ride a mix of hills and curves and freeway blasting. The Vision may just speak to you as it has done to so many of us.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2012-12-15 9:49 PM
| |
| | |
Puddle Jumper
Posts: 22
| What rdbudd posted is accurate. My point with the gearing is avoiding the downshift when rolling on from low speed to highway speed. If you're running in 6th on a VV and you go into a 30 mph zone you're going to have to downshift or the Vic is going to let you know it. No downshifting needed on the GW.
He is right about the ride. Better corning with the VV. Handling at low speed gives a slight edge to the VV. At above walking speed I give a slight advantage to the GW mostly because of the quicker throttle response. With both cases of low speed and faster tho I emphasis "slight" difference. Neither are bad at all. I prefer the seating on the VV to the GW. Hard not to like 18" floorboards of the VV. The seating on a GW puts your feet under you. Floorboards on a GW help some giving you a little bit of movement but every set of floorboards I've seen on GW cuts down the cornering even more by dragging sooner.
I like my Vic and have no intentions of getting rid of it any time soon. I still have my 1500 GW too. Haven't decided yet whether to sell the GW this spring. If one or the other has to go for some reason then the 1500 will have a new owner and I'll ride the VV. If Honda would redesign the GW a bit to give more knee room at the fairing and allow my feet not to be under me so much I might look at a GW. However, they've been making the 1800 for 12 yrs and haven't seen fit to redesign those yet so I'm not holding out hope they'll do it soon. I know I won't be riding an 1800 GW until they do change. | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Just to elaborate a bit on what Wadcutter and I are talking about concerning the in-town behavior of the GL1800 and the Vision, 30 MPH in 6th gear on the Vision is 1100 RPM. 6th gear isn't for in town. It's for the open road over 60 MPH, or better yet, over 70 MPH. 30 MPH in 5th gear on the Goldwing is 1300 RPM. 30 MPH in 5th gear on the Vision is 1350 RPM. Either bike will pull up from 30 MPH in 5th gear just fine.
3000 RPM is 70 MPH on the Goldwing in its top gear (5th) and 80 MPH on the Vision in its top gear (6th). You can't really compare the two bikes' top gears, either in slow in-town traffic or on the highway. You can honestly compare the first five gears. The Goldwing only has five. The Vision has six, and the sixth one is a true overdrive.
You don't cruise 30 MPH through town in overdrive in your car do you? Why would you expect your bike to do it?
Ronnie
| |
| | |
Puddle Jumper
Posts: 22
| rdbudd - 2012-12-16 7:46 PM
Just to elaborate a bit on what Wadcutter and I are talking about concerning the in-town behavior of the GL1800 and the Vision, 30 MPH in 6th gear on the Vision is 1100 RPM. 6th gear isn't for in town. It's for the open road over 60 MPH, or better yet, over 70 MPH. 30 MPH in 5th gear on the Goldwing is 1300 RPM. 30 MPH in 5th gear on the Vision is 1350 RPM. Either bike will pull up from 30 MPH in 5th gear just fine.
3000 RPM is 70 MPH on the Goldwing in its top gear (5th) and 80 MPH on the Vision in its top gear (6th). You can't really compare the two bikes' top gears, either in slow in-town traffic or on the highway. You can honestly compare the first five gears. The Goldwing only has five. The Vision has six, and the sixth one is a true overdrive.
You don't cruise 30 MPH through town in overdrive in your car do you? Why would you expect your bike to do it?
Ronnie
On a Vic it's going to require downshifting. I fully understand the RPMs and gearing of both bike. As I've said twice, when coming into a reduced speed zone you're going to have to downshift on the Vic for the reasons rdbudd stated, but it is still going to mean a downshift and not just roll on the throttle like on a GW. They're geared differently.
Edited by Wadcutter 2012-12-17 9:56 AM
| |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Wadcutter - 2012-12-17
On a Vic it's going to require downshifting. I fully understand the RPMs and gearing of both bike. As I've said twice, when coming into a reduced speed zone you're going to have to downshift on the Vic for the reasons rdbudd stated, but it is still going to mean a downshift and not just roll on the throttle like on a GW. They're geared differently.
You're right. They are geared differently. The Goldwing has only 5 gears and no overdrive. It can run 120 MPH in 5th gear. The Vision has those same 5 gears (with minor differences in actual ratios) and can also run 120 MPH in 5th gear. The real place they are "geared differently" is, the Vision has an overdrive 6th gear that allows for much more relaxed cruising at highway speeds and generally, in my experience, allows the Vision to get better fuel economy than the Goldwing. You're right too, in that trying to run though a 30 MPH speed zone in overdrive with the motor just idling isn't going to work very well and you'll need to downshift to the same gear that the Goldwing would be in, which is 5th gear. You win.
That overdrive grows on you. After riding my Vision for a while, I swapped bikes with my buddy who rides a GL1800. I didn't remember the Goldwing feeling "busy" back when I rode one, to the contrary, it was the smoothest and quietest bike I had ever ridden, but after having the Vision for a while and then getting back on the Goldwing, it suddenly felt very "busy" and even "noisy" and I kept trying to shift up to a higher gear, which just wasn't there. Running 3000 RPM @ 70 MPH just felt wrong and was annoying. I've come to prefer the gentle V-Twin lope of the Vision running 2600 RPM at highway speeds as I stretch out on those long floorboards. I find it to be much more relaxing than the Goldwing, but that's just me.
I can't imagine that when Honda finally gets around to designing a truly "New Goldwing" that it wouldn't have an overdrive 6th gear (which you would have to shift out of in 30 MPH speed zones) and a power windshield. I don't know how they are going to match the comfort of the Vision's 26.5 inch seat height and long floorboards though, if they stick with the trademark flat six engine. The answer would be to go to a V-Twin, but the Goldwing purists would probably have none of it. Some would eventually come around, just as the Kawasaki Voyager riders did when Kawasaki replaced the in-line six with a four and then with a V-Twin.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2012-12-17 11:02 AM
| |
| | |
Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | The Honda website says that the Goldwing has a 5 speed trans with OD. 5th gear is OD. | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Rollin' - 2012-12-17 11:06 AM
The Honda website says that the Goldwing has a 5 speed trans with OD. 5th gear is OD.
I know. And they have an indicator light that comes on when you go into 5th gear. It's a misleading marketing ploy. Kawasaki did the same thing with the old Voyager XII, which also had a 5 speed transmission. The fact is that the Goldwing still runs 3000 RPM @ 70 MPH in "overdrive". The Vision runs 80 MPH @ 3000 RPM in its overdrive. The Vision runs 2650 RPM @ 70 MPH and the 2012 Harley UltraClassic with the 6 speed runs 2700 RPM @ 70 MPH. Honda gets away with calling 5th gear "overdrive" because the internal transmission 5th gear ratio is an overdrive ratio. However, the combined primary, transmission, and final drive ratios still have the Goldwing motor spinning 3000 RPM @ 70 MPH in its top gear vs 2600 or 2700 for their competitors. The 2012 Kawasaki Voyager has double overdrive (5th and 6th) gear ratios and runs just 2450 RPM @ 70 MPH in 6th gear.
The Goldwing is downright busy in its "overdrive" compared to its competitors, with the exception of the BMW K1600GTL, which is even busier, but then most journalists called the BMW a "sport-tourer". The BMW has an 8500 RPM redline and uses much stiffer gear ratios overall than any of the other bikes mentioned.
3000 RPM is anywhere from 11% to 22% more engine RPM at 70 MPH than any of the Goldwing's competitors. Calling the Goldwing's 5th gear "overdrive" doesn't make it so. That's just Hondaspeak, just like Honda calling the Goldwing the "gold standard for touring bikes". They had a legitimate point at one time (13 years ago). Today, many riders would say that Honda is getting left behind in that category and needs to come up with a new design. Maybe, when they do, it will have a real overdrive.
Ronnie | |
| | |
Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | The gear ratio for 5th gear is listed as .685. That's overdrive. | |
| | |
Cruiser
Posts: 78
| Rollin' - 2012-12-17 10:12 PM
The gear ratio for 5th gear is listed as .685. That's overdrive.
RPM's at 80 was around 3300 and the vision was running about 2900 if I remember correctly | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Rollin' - 2012-12-17 10:12 PM
The gear ratio for 5th gear is listed as .685. That's overdrive.
I already pointed that out, saying the internal 5th gear ratio was an overdrive. BUT, when it's combined with the primary reduction and the final drive reduction, the net effect on the RPM to MPH relationship is not overdrive. The GW motor is running 11% to 22% faster at any given road speed than its competitors. Effectively, in comparison, the Goldwing has an overall underdrive.
Think of it this way. You have two identical cars with the same type transmissions that have a .685 5th gear, such as a couple of Mustangs. One of them has a 2.73 final drive and the other has been changed to a 3.23 final drive. Both cars have overdrive transmissions, but the one with the 3.31 rear end is going to be turning 18% more RPM at the same road speed because of the overall gearing. Effectively, it's now underdriven.
The Vision gets 26.42 MPH per 1000 RPM in its top gear while the Goldwing only gets 23.33 MPH per 1000 RPM in its top gear due to the overall gearing of each machine. Yes technically, both machines have overdriven transmission ratios, but there is a lot more to it than just that. The primary reductions plus the final reductions play into the overall gearing. When both the Vision and the Goldwing are in their overdrive gears, the Goldwing's motor is spinning 13% faster at any given speed than the Vision's. To me, that is effectively an UNDER drive, in relation to any of the Goldwing's main competitors. Put another way, 3500 RPM on both bikes yields 82 MPH on the Goldwing and 93 MPH on the Vision. Which one has a true effective overdrive when the total gearing is added up? There are three gear ratios (plus the tire height, which we can ignore in this case since they are the same) to multiply on each machine. The transmission ratio is only one third (or fourth) of the total equation and can not be considered alone when determining whether the machine has an effective overdrive or not.
Ronnie | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | bigdogtx - 2012-12-17 10:58 PM
Rollin' - 2012-12-17 10:12 PM
The gear ratio for 5th gear is listed as .685. That's overdrive.
RPM's at 80 was around 3300 and the vision was running about 2900 if I remember correctly
Since this discussion has turned so technical, 80 MPH on the Goldwing is 3429 RPM and on the Vision it is 3028 RPM, which is a 401 RPM overdrive advantage for the Vision. The Goldwing, with its "overdrive 5th gear" is turning 401 more RPM than the Vision at 80 MPH.
Ronnie | |
| | |
Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | rdbudd - 2012-12-16 8:46 PM
You don't cruise 30 MPH through town in overdrive in your car do you? Why would you expect your bike to do it?
Ronnie
When I used to drive a truck, I'd pull into a town in 13th gear, going uphill, with a full load, at 20mph.....with the Jake on. 
(Just thought this thread needed a break. Back to the OD/rpm arguments. ) | |
| | |
Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | rdbudd - 2012-12-18 12:40 AM bigdogtx - 2012-12-17 10:58 PM Rollin' - 2012-12-17 10:12 PM The gear ratio for 5th gear is listed as .685. That's overdrive. RPM's at 80 was around 3300 and the vision was running about 2900 if I remember correctly Since this discussion has turned so technical, 80 MPH on the Goldwing is 3429 RPM and on the Vision it is 3028 RPM, which is a 401 RPM overdrive advantage for the Vision. The Goldwing, with its "overdrive 5th gear" is turning 401 more RPM than the Vision at 80 MPH. Ronnie If you put a larger rear sprocket on a Vision the RPM will be also be higher at 80 mph but it still has an overdrive transmission. | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Rollin' - 2012-12-18 1:08 AM
rdbudd - 2012-12-18 12:40 AM bigdogtx - 2012-12-17 10:58 PM Rollin' - 2012-12-17 10:12 PM The gear ratio for 5th gear is listed as .685. That's overdrive. RPM's at 80 was around 3300 and the vision was running about 2900 if I remember correctly Since this discussion has turned so technical, 80 MPH on the Goldwing is 3429 RPM and on the Vision it is 3028 RPM, which is a 401 RPM overdrive advantage for the Vision. The Goldwing, with its "overdrive 5th gear" is turning 401 more RPM than the Vision at 80 MPH. Ronnie If you put a larger rear sprocket on a Vision the RPM will be also be higher at 80 mph but it still has an overdrive transmission.
Exactly, and you would have defeated the reason for having the overdrive gearset, just as Honda did. It would be just like changing the rear end gears in my car example. The transmission ratio is an overdrive ratio, but the overall combined gearing is not. Honda used an overdrive 5th gear ratio just so they could make the claim they have overdrive. In practice, they do not have overdrive.
Honda could even make the claim that they have a bigger overdrive in their top gear than the Vision does, .685 for Honda and .84 for the Victory. If you only look one transmission ratio, you could be misled into thinking the Honda has a better overdrive ratio. They could even legally get away with that claim.
Honda uses a primary ratio of 1.591 and a final drive ratio of 2.75. Multiply those with the .685 5th gear and you get a gearing ratio of 3.00 (2.9970 to be exact). The engine turns three times for each time the wheel rotates.
Victory uses a primary ratio of 1.5 and a final drive ratio of 2.12. Multiply those with the .84 6th gear ratio and you get a gearing ratio of 2.67 (2.6712 to be exact). The Vision's engine turns over 2 and 2/3rds times for each revolution of the rear wheel.
Honda can call it whatever they want, but the COMPLETE transmission package is not overdrive and their motor is spinning 13% faster going down the road than the Victory's is. If you have to insist on the point that a single ratio in the complete driveline is an overdrive ratio, then I would have to agree, but it takes three ratios plus the tire height to determine whether you've accomplished an overdrive function or not. Functionally, the Honda does not have overdrive. They defeated it with their choices of primary and (mostly) secondary gearing.
Overdriven (and underdriven) gears also have a lot more frictional losses than direct driven gears. The bigger the ratio, the more friction. This causes power losses between the engine and the rear wheel. The Goldwing has a .685 ratio and starts out with 118 HP at the crank and delivers 96 to the wheel, losing 22 HP in the process. The 2008 Vision has a .84 ratio (and a belt drive) and starts out with 92 HP at the crank and delivers about 83 HP to the wheel, losing 9 HP in the process. More importantly, the Honda starts out with 128 FT/LBS of torque but only delivers 104 FT/LBS to the wheel. Victory starts out with only 109 FT/LBS at the crank but gets 101 FT/LBS to the wheel. Honda is shooting itself in the foot with their choice of gear ratios. They probably did it to get the favorable 1st and 2nd gear ratios that make the Goldwing feel so powerful at low speeds.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2012-12-18 10:45 AM
| |
| | |
Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Ovedrive - an automotive transmission gear that transmits to the drive shaft a speed greater than engine speed.
If your biggest concern is the number of gears and low engine RPM you could trade the Vision for a dump truck. | |
| | |
Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Rollin' - 2012-12-18 10:42 AM
Ovedrive - an automotive transmission gear that transmits to the drive shaft a speed greater than engine speed.
That's true. So what? That's only one part of the drive train. You left out the rest of the story. The drive shaft only applies power to the final drive and the combination of the transmission and final drive ratios determine whether you end up with a true overdrive or not. The Goldwing has a combined gear ratio of 3.00-1 while the Vision has a combined gear ratio of 2.67-1 with both machines being operated in their overdrive gears. The internal gearset ratios are not the end of the story and, by themselves ,do not determine whether you have an effective overdrive or not. One gearset does not, by itself, make an overdrive combination. That would be an oversimplification to say that it does. Is Honda's .685 transmission gearset more of an overdrive ratio than Victory's .84 transmission gearset. Sure it is. If you wanted to, you could make the claim that the Honda has more overdrive than the Victory if you limit your view to just those two ratios. Is the Honda's combined 3.00-1 ratio more or less than the Victory's 2.67-1 ratio? Is the Honda's 3000 RPM @ 70 MPH more engine speed or less than the Victory's 2650 RPM @ 70 MPH? Which one really has overdrive when the complete driveline is looked at?
The whole purpose of overdrive is to lower engine RPM at a given road speed for the purpose of increasing fuel economy or to increase the speed achievable for a given final drive ratio. It also affects the riding experience, giving you a relaxed engine or a busy engine. The Vision runs 2650 RPM at 70 MPH vs the Goldwing running 3000 RPM @ 70 MPH with both machines being operated in their transmissions' overdrive gears. In my experience, the Vision always beats the Goldwing on fuel economy when they are ridden together. In some conditions, I've beat the Goldwings by 5 MPG while running 80+ MPH. In my opinion, the Vision is also much more relaxing to ride than the Goldwing, and the engine speed has a lot to do with that.
Dump trucks? Where did that come from? Very few dump trucks have overdrive, even within the transmission ratios. They use a large number of gears to multiply the engine torque to move heavy loads. They use a lot of UNDERdrive gears to get the load moving and up to road speed. Redline in 1st gear will only get you up to about 5-7 MPH. It takes 9 or more gears to even achieve a reasonable road speed. I've driven 15 speed trucks that couldn't go over 85 MPH and that was wound out at 2200 rpm in 15th gear (redline). Apples and Oranges.
You are using the term "overdrive" as it relates to ONE particular gearset out of the total package of primary gears, transmission gears, and final gears. I'm using the term "overdrive" as it relates to the whole driveline and how it relates to the RPM/MPH equation, which is the only thing that matters in practice. True overdrive reduces the engine speed, usually increases fuel economy, and can enhance the driving/riding experience.
I know you're a smart guy. I think you're just funnin' me  Winter blahs setting in?
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2012-12-18 12:18 PM
| |
| |
|
ON THE FENCE AGAIN