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Prairie City, IA United States | I am going to add either a Ness or Lloyds air filter to the bike this winter. I see that ness makes both the main and extra performance air filter kit while Lloyds just makes the extra filter. Lloyds extra filter does look like it is a bit larger than the Ness but he does not offer the main filter as part of a value package. I do not plan to add pipes or a fuel controller.
Do I need to have the computer reset?
If you go with Lloyds, do you just use the stock main filter or is there a K&N style filter available?
Which way is the best way to go and why? I guess I am looking for the best bang for the buck. |
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Cruiser
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Lexington Park, MD | lstayner - 2012-12-06 2:37 PM
I am going to add either a Ness or Lloyds air filter to the bike this winter. I see that ness makes both the main and extra performance air filter kit while Lloyds just makes the extra filter. Lloyds extra filter does look like it is a bit larger than the Ness but he does not offer the main filter as part of a value package. I do not plan to add pipes or a fuel controller.
Do I need to have the computer reset?
If you go with Lloyds, do you just use the stock main filter or is there a K&N style filter available?
Which way is the best way to go and why? I guess I am looking for the best bang for the buck.
I debated over this for some time as well and I didnt see the kit (which I now do) on the Ness website but it almost balances out. Heard all kinds of thoughts about continuing to use the stock front filter (someone had flow metrics) or replacing it with the Vic Performance front after 10K and the stock was due. Also read several thoughts on the Ness in comparison to Lloydz 2nd upper filter assembly. LOTS of info... Personal thoughts and recommendations.
I went with this thought. IF the K&N improved my V92, then the K&N "STYLE" should improve airflow for my VV as well. When to replace it? When the old one is ready to be trashed... Why? Because I am ADDING the 2nd upper.
Which one to use, Ness or Lloydz? I went with Lloydz. It's 2nd generation and think about this. Ness, good stuff I know, supports mulitple bike brands while Lloydz continues to develope VIC performance. Just read about his latest swing on Dyno'ing and the direction he is now going. He is about developement and improving our performance to get the most for the buck I believe. So that was my deciding factor, call it what you may. The man is making his living and has been by IMPROVING our bikes performance. Im not sure if that funky designed figure 8 really improves the turbulence but hey, thats where I spent my 85.00. (plus shipping).. :-)
Let us know what route you go and why... Safe ridin
Tim
Edited by Tims_11Vision 2012-12-06 4:30 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I am still considering the upper intake filter for my 2011 Vision..Still not really sure how it will effect fuel delivery from a leaner side...Currently run the factory S1L1 kit with Victory HP front filter and re-flash...I am on the fence with the change for now..The Vic Shop (Rylan) has a set-up with the Lloydz upper filter, timing wheel change, and dis-connecting the O2 sensors to eliminate any "popping" that he is using with success...I might go this route next spring, I just need to see/hear some evidence that I can do this minor mod without having to buy a fuel controller, etc....(tight budget)....Bike runs great as is and I don't want to screw it up just for a couple of ponies and somewhat better throttle response.....I agree that Lloydz is the better filter, but do not really know for sure...... |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I put in the ness filter two years ago and have S1L1 and I do get popping. I do get 44mpg. I unplugged the 02's for about a week and did see less popping and gas went down to 42mpg. I don't see a need for a fuel tuner or a flash.
Our bikes are designed to run at sea level or at pikes peak so I don't see the need. If I get cams then yes the tuner would be the right thing to do.
I would do Lloydz cause it lets in more air. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | I have run a Ness upper intake, L1S1 and K&N front filter for 2 years with zero problems. I do not know if my ECU was flashed because the L1S1 was done by the dealer prior to purchase. I have also run with Thrush mufflers with only minimal popping (only when I wasn't paying attention to my shifting habits). I have not really noticed any effects from the upper air filter, including any performance benefits. Maybe once I get my cams. |
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Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | K&N doesn't make a filter for a Vision-you must have the Victory one that came with pipe upgrade-I have the same one with a Ness on top-Lloyd just had the old style ones available when I was looking to open up the top & the Ness was better at that time. I did notice my throttle response was a bit better. Now with cams & a controller it all work great together. |
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Cruiser
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elgin mn | I have the old stlye loydz upper ,victory k &n style filter went withfuel controller and got dyno'd at the AVR in 11 LOVE it |
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Visionary
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Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | johnnyvision - 2012-12-06 6:31 PM
I put in the ness filter two years ago and have S1L1 and I do get popping. I do get 44mpg. I unplugged the 02's for about a week and did see less popping and gas went down to 42mpg. I don't see a need for a fuel tuner or a flash.
Our bikes are designed to run at sea level or at pikes peak so I don't see the need. If I get cams then yes the tuner would be the right thing to do.
I would do Lloydz cause it lets in more air.
Unless you are tricking the ECM for height or temp. It does not have the capability to adjust far enough for your parts; using the o2 sensors. The reason unplugging the, does help; is that it throws the bike in open loop. In open loop the ECM is set up to run at a safer rich mixture. Your misconception on how things work. Is not doing your engine any favors. |
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Cruiser
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The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | If you want a really nice, inexpensive way to increase throttle response, see picture.
The Lloydz timing gear and intake.
I did this to a gentleman's Vision the other week. About an hour of labor and $250 in parts. You must unplug the O2 sensors! Kevin is right, your exhaust valves will thank you in 30K miles for the extra fuel.
Anyway in and out in a hour and the customer was SUPER impressed with the change to his simple STG1 Vision.
(Vision intake [640x480].jpg)
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Tourer
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Prairie City, IA United States | Vicbuilder - 2012-12-07 9:49 AM
If you want a really nice, inexpensive way to increase throttle response, see picture.
The Lloydz timing gear and intake.
I did this to a gentleman's Vision the other week. About an hour of labor and $250 in parts. You must unplug the O2 sensors! Kevin is right, your exhaust valves will thank you in 30K miles for the extra fuel.
Anyway in and out in a hour and the customer was SUPER impressed with the change to his simple STG1 Vision.
Thanks for the response. I might just make a short drive over to your shop sometime and discuss this in a little more depth.
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The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | lstayner - 2012-12-07 1:01 PM
Vicbuilder - 2012-12-07 9:49 AM
If you want a really nice, inexpensive way to increase throttle response, see picture.
The Lloydz timing gear and intake.
I did this to a gentleman's Vision the other week. About an hour of labor and $250 in parts. You must unplug the O2 sensors! Kevin is right, your exhaust valves will thank you in 30K miles for the extra fuel.
Anyway in and out in a hour and the customer was SUPER impressed with the change to his simple STG1 Vision.
Thanks for the response. I might just make a short drive over to your shop sometime and discuss this in a little more depth.
Anytime! Feel free to drop by, these parts are the kind of popular parts that are always in stock. |
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Cruiser
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elgin mn | Hey RYLAN i HAVE THE PC5 i AM DYNO'D RUNNING GOOD WHAT would this timing gear do for me have old loydz upper filter and you installed intake fore me at 11 avr would it make a diff |
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Posts: 169
The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | pete a - 2012-12-07 10:59 PM
Hey RYLAN i HAVE THE PC5 i AM DYNO'D RUNNING GOOD WHAT would this timing gear do for me have old loydz upper filter and you installed intake fore me at 11 avr would it make a diff
Yes the timing wheel is nice for any combination from stock to big-bore. It works particularly well with the PCV as then you can taylor your own timing map similar to your own fuel map.
This isn't a HUGE change, it is just a bit more snap, sooner in the range, and you should see slightly better milage. |
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Cruiser
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Flowery Branch Ga | Vicbuilder or Kevinx......I recently installed Witchdoctor Muscle mufflers, a new standard air filter, and unplugged the O2 sensors. I have always had popping since new. I currently have decel popping and popping on most up shifts. I also have pinging in high heat, high speed, hard throttle situations. I plan on adding Lloydds top filter and a Stage One download. I am on a fairly tight budget. Any suggestions or ideas that would better fit my bike and it's problems? |
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The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | wtwhitelaw - 2012-12-09 9:14 AM
Vicbuilder or Kevinx......I recently installed Witchdoctor Muscle mufflers, a new standard air filter, and unplugged the O2 sensors. I have always had popping since new. I currently have decel popping and popping on most up shifts. I also have pinging in high heat, high speed, hard throttle situations. I plan on adding Lloydds top filter and a Stage One download. I am on a fairly tight budget. Any suggestions or ideas that would better fit my bike and it's problems?
The popping is normal on down shifts. Some bikes pop more than others, but if popping on upshifts then thats usually just too lean. I think you are right on track with the download, keep the 02's unplugged as a budget fix.
Pinging can be normal in high heat, high load, hard throttle conditions too. Cheap solution: downshift. Expensive solution: PCV and timing wheel and a dyno tune. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | Should I stay with the paper filter in front only or would I be good with a top filter also after the download with my current symptoms? I checked and re-gapped my plugs recently (around 19,300 miles). Slight white, light gray tint indicating running a little lean. I hope this helps.
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The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | wtwhitelaw - 2012-12-10 12:53 PM
Should I stay with the paper filter in front only or would I be good with a top filter also after the download with my current symptoms? I checked and re-gapped my plugs recently (around 19,300 miles). Slight white, light gray tint indicating running a little lean. I hope this helps.
The download with o2's unplugged should cover a top filter and any front filter. I prefer the reusable "performance" front filter, because it's, umm.... reusable. |
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Flowery Branch Ga | Thanks Vicbuilder for the help. I'm sorry, lstayner for the hi-jack. |
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Prairie City, IA United States | wtwhitelaw - 2012-12-11 3:07 PM
Thanks Vicbuilder for the help. I'm sorry, lstayner for the hi-jack.
Not a problem Man. This is a forum for learning and social interaction. |
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Posts: 169
The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | Oh and by the way, Lloyd told me today that his hourglass top filter flows about 60% more than the smaller square Ness top filter. So there you go! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| Vicbuilder - 2012-12-12 9:41 PM Oh and by the way, Lloyd told me today that his hourglass top filter flows about 60% more than the smaller square Ness top filter. So there you go! How does it compare to his older filter? |
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Iron Butt
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Orlando, FL | Vicbuilder - 2012-12-12 10:41 PM
Oh and by the way, Lloyd told me today that his hourglass top filter flows about 60% more than the smaller square Ness top filter. So there you go!
Thanks! I was wondering is the hourglass shape increased surface area and hence air flow.
+1 in the info~! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | kris1956 - 2012-12-13 6:33 AM
Vicbuilder - 2012-12-12 9:41 PM Oh and by the way, Lloyd told me today that his hourglass top filter flows about 60% more than the smaller square Ness top filter. So there you go! ?How does it compare to his older filter?
If you have the old filter. I would highly advise replacing it with the new style |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| kevinx - 2012-12-13 11:12 AM kris1956 - 2012-12-13 6:33 AM Vicbuilder - 2012-12-12 9:41 PM Oh and by the way, Lloyd told me today that his hourglass top filter flows about 60% more than the smaller square Ness top filter. So there you go! ?How does it compare to his older filter? If you have the old filter. I would highly advise replacing it with the new style I'm not questioning you but whats the reason? |
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Cruiser
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The Vic Shop - Central Iowa | I've never personally seen it, but there were a few cases of filter breakdown on Lloyds old foam style top filter. If you have one of those old foam filters from Lloyd and it does break down, send it back and he'll send you his new cotton (K&N) style filter for free to replace it. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| Vicbuilder - 2012-12-14 4:18 AM I've never personally seen it, but there were a few cases of filter breakdown on Lloyds old foam style top filter. If you have one of those old foam filters from Lloyd and it does break down, send it back and he'll send you his new cotton (K&N) style filter for free to replace it. Thanks, mine seems to be working fine. My HD friends comment on the noise but it reminds me of the cowl induction cars. |
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Cruiser
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Princeton, MN | Has anyone ever calculated the "filter" comparison in sq inches between the foam top and the new top? Just installed the new top and as far as Im concerned it IS quieter. I put about 20k on the old top filter, after cams pulling even more air through I put the new one on,,, I like!  Thanks again Rylan for great work...as I filled up yesterday a couple of hd pulled up and started to fill/talk. He said he just likes the true sound of a hd. I said that's nice,,, finished filling and leter rip.... I could see him pointing at me as I drove off and talking to his buddy next to him,,, made a believer! and thanks Lloyd for great products! |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Just installed Lloyd's top filter. Plugs look like my vision is running rich. No pop on decal but pops on upshifts when I don't return throttle to min. Thinking of not unplugging the O2 sensors and checking the plugs. Anyone do the upgrade but no unplug the O2's?
Edited by nailer 2013-06-08 12:53 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I have the Ness filter and get 44 mpg if I stay under 70 mph with 02's hooked up.
Yes I get popping on up shifting but have learned ho to avoid the popping. Try doing a mild speed shift. The more you get use to doing the mild speed shift you'll find it very easy to eliminate the popping. (Kevinx told me that)
By the way once your spark plugs are black they will stay that way. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | johnnyvision - 2013-06-08 7:03 PM
I have the Ness filter and get 44 mpg if I stay under 70 mph with 02's hooked up.
Yes I get popping on up shifting but have learned ho to avoid the popping. Try doing a mild speed shift. The more you get use to doing the mild speed shift you'll find it very easy to eliminate the popping. (Kevinx told me that)
By the way once your spark plugs are black they will stay that way. Unless you clean them with a small wire brush; re-gap, and re-install them. Gives you another chance to evaluate your plugs in the future. I have done this twice now, on my Vision.
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | johnnyvision - 2013-06-08 5:03 PM
I have the Ness filter and get 44 mpg if I stay under 70 mph with 02's hooked up.
Yes I get popping on up shifting but have learned ho to avoid the popping. Try doing a mild speed shift. The more you get use to doing the mild speed shift you'll find it very easy to eliminate the popping. (Kevinx told me that)
By the way once your spark plugs are black they will stay that way.
Thanks jv,
Will give speed shifting a shot. Will run the plugs thru my harbor freight sp cleaner. Should be able to tell if I need to unplug the O2`s.
Edited by nailer 2013-06-08 7:41 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | I want to find out how my vision runs with the O2 sensors unplugged. Easily located the rear cylinder sensor cable/conn. underneath the left side panel below the seat. It's a little more difficult to trace the front O2 sensor cable underneath the body panels. I did find an identical connector underneath the panel between the seat and the console. Can anyone confirm that the conn in the pic below is the front O2 conn...thnx
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | nailer - 2013-08-10 11:17 AM
I want to find out how my vision runs with the O2 sensors unplugged. Easily located the rear cylinder sensor cable/conn. underneath the left side panel below the seat. It's a little more difficult to trace the front O2 sensor cable underneath the body panels. I did find an identical connector underneath the panel between the seat and the console. Can anyone confirm that the conn in the pic below is the front O2 conn...thnx
That is a front o2 plug on an 08 |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | willtill - 2013-06-08 7:11 PM
johnnyvision - 2013-06-08 7:03 PM
I have the Ness filter and get 44 mpg if I stay under 70 mph with 02's hooked up.
Yes I get popping on up shifting but have learned ho to avoid the popping. Try doing a mild speed shift. The more you get use to doing the mild speed shift you'll find it very easy to eliminate the popping. (Kevinx told me that)
By the way once your spark plugs are black they will stay that way. ? Unless you clean them with a small wire brush; re-gap, and re-install them. Gives you another chance to evaluate your plugs in the future.? I have done this twice now, on my Vision.
Avoid steel brush on spark plugs |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | kevinx - 2013-08-10 12:45 PM
willtill - 2013-06-08 7:11 PM
johnnyvision - 2013-06-08 7:03 PM
I have the Ness filter and get 44 mpg if I stay under 70 mph with 02's hooked up.
Yes I get popping on up shifting but have learned ho to avoid the popping. Try doing a mild speed shift. The more you get use to doing the mild speed shift you'll find it very easy to eliminate the popping. (Kevinx told me that)
By the way once your spark plugs are black they will stay that way. ? Unless you clean them with a small wire brush; re-gap, and re-install them. Gives you another chance to evaluate your plugs in the future.? I have done this twice now, on my Vision.
Avoid steel brush on spark plugs
Steel brush on threads and face, avoid the ceramic insulator where the electrode is....
Edited by willtill 2013-08-10 11:58 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | kevinx - 2013-08-10 10:43 AM
nailer - 2013-08-10 11:17 AM
I want to find out how my vision runs with the O2 sensors unplugged. Easily located the rear cylinder sensor cable/conn. underneath the left side panel below the seat. It's a little more difficult to trace the front O2 sensor cable underneath the body panels. I did find an identical connector underneath the panel between the seat and the console. Can anyone confirm that the conn in the pic below is the front O2 conn...thnx
That is a front o2 plug on an 08
thanks kevx,
I noticed that since I've disconnected the O2 sensors, the bike seems to run a little hotter than it used to. I've read conflicting statements that say disconnecting the sensors makes it run both richer and leaner. Which is it? Will check the plugs! (running lloyds upper air filt, stage 1 map/air filter, muscle muffler/no baffles) |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Unplugging o2 moves it to open loop, and makes it run richer period. If it is hotter; it is either weather related, or something else is going on |
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