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Cruiser
Posts: 244
Lindale, TX | If your Vision was totaled, and insurance settled on your side, would you consider the new Honda?
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Cruiser
Posts: 209
| yes I would 'consider' it. I love my vision, but i would open minded, and give it a test ride. i like the pic. , and this is not the only forum around lol!
Edited by Banjodan 2012-11-18 8:44 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | The look is not too bad. However, this thing has foot pegs!! I want looks and comfort......and performance! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Of course I would consider, ie a test ride. Doubt I would ever switch from a Vision. After 70,000 miles on a Vic I rode a HD Ultra for the first time. I let my buddy take me new Vision for a spin and followed on his HD. I was amazed on how much I disliked it.
:-) | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 281
| Nope. We spent 2 days on a GW, we ain't getting one. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Ha! | |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| The new F6B is just an old Goldwing without a trunk, no ABS brakes, and no adjustable windshield...Not enough change to get my attention...... | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | I have bad knees and need to be able to stretch my legs out from time to time. For that reason alone, I wouldn't buy the Wing. I like my e-shield, big floorboards, etc, too. I'm not stuck on a big V twin but the last couple of bikes I've had have been just that. I like the sound of a big V twin exhaust. I can also make my Vision into something other than a cookie cutter bike. Other than adding a bit of chrome (which I'm not into), there's not really alot you can do to a Wing to make it "my own".
Bottom line is, no. I wouldn't consider the Wing (in any of its forms) now. If they changed a lot of stuff (e-shield, skinnier motor, floor boards, less crotch-rocket-on-steroids look, etc) AND lowered the price, I'd consider it but still not over the Vision. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Looks like a good replacement for my Vision 8-Ball.
The ergos can't be too bad. Some of the most extreme long distance rides I have read about were done on a Goldwing.
Most resent was a rider that did 3 - 1500 mile days in a row and he has done that twice!
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Rollin' there is no doubt that for some that the Gold Wing is suitable for them. Having put long distance on both a Gold Wing and a Vision, there is a night and day difference. The floorboards on the Vision is the part that makes the big difference. On a Wing, I had two choices for foot positions, the foot pegs, or spread eagle on the engine guards. Both positions would cause great problems in my knees, and made it difficult to dismount the bike. So, my hats off to folks like yourself who do not suffer with knee problems like I and others do. In all seriousness, if it was not for the Vision, I would not be taking any long trips on a motorcycle given the other choices and knowing what I know now.
Edited by varyder 2012-11-19 9:56 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | It looks good in the pictures, but I'm not going back to a "footpeg" bike of anykind that is a touring rig or "bagger"....... | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Easttexasrider - 2012-11-18 6:17 PM
If your Vision was totaled, and insurance settled on your side, would you consider the new Honda? ?
Nope. I would get a new Vision. I like the trunk and power windshield, floorboards, V-twin. I also like to support American companies and jobs when possible. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | Monkeyman - 2012-11-18 11:02 PM
Bottom line is, no. I wouldn't consider the Wing (in any of its forms) now. If they changed a lot of stuff (e-shield, skinnier motor, floor boards, less crotch-rocket-on-steroids look, etc) AND lowered the price, I'd consider it but still not over the Vision.
Monkeyman,
Aren't you glad you found out how much fun the Vision is before you drank the HD Koolaid?  I can see by your comments that you are "all in" when it comes to the Vision. I came off a Goldwing and have not regretted it for a moment. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | does it still have a 5 speed? | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 48
huntington In. | no not a chance. you will have to pry me off my Big Blue Vic | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| Arkainzeye - 2012-11-19 4:21 PM does it still have a 5 speed? Still a 5 speed. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Of course I'd consider it. But as it is, with the foot position, I feel the same way as the other folks. No dice. I'm just too tall. I sat on one this weekend, and it was harder to get my leg over, and I felt pushed forward on the engine. Just didn't care for it. Now, if there was a $16k rebate or something like that, I could prolly get used to it. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Of course I'd consider it. But as it is, with the foot position, I feel the same way as the other folks. No dice. I'm just too tall. I sat on one this weekend, and it was harder to get my leg over, and I felt pushed forward on the engine. Just didn't care for it. Now, if there was a $16k rebate or something like that, I could prolly get used to it. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | kris1956 - 2012-11-19 5:03 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-11-19 4:21 PM does it still have a 5 speed? ?Still a 5 speed.
Still the same bike that was released in 2001, but with a tupperware change in 2012. And a loss of the trunk, centerstand and a few other things for 2013.
I quizzed my Goldwing riding buddies about the "new" F6B and they are not happy. They are still waiting for the long rumored 2000+cc six speed bike with the 150 HP motor and power windshield that gets 50 MPG. They were expecting it this year ( and last year, and the year before that). They were so very sure that with the move back to Japanese production that an all new Goldwing was just around the corner. They sure weren't expecting a sliced and diced old Goldwing as the "new" offering.
Ronnie | |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| If I was interested in a honda, I'd go to a honda discussion website, not a Victory. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| rdbudd - 2012-11-19 5:51 PM kris1956 - 2012-11-19 5:03 PM Arkainzeye - 2012-11-19 4:21 PM does it still have a 5 speed? ?Still a 5 speed. Still the same bike that was released in 2001, but with a tupperware change in 2012. And a loss of the trunk, centerstand and a few other things for 2013. I quizzed my Goldwing riding buddies about the "new" F6B and they are not happy. They are still waiting for the long rumored 2000+cc six speed bike with the 150 HP motor and power windshield that gets 50 MPG. They were expecting it this year ( and last year, and the year before that). They were so very sure that with the move back to Japanese production that an all new Goldwing was just around the corner. They sure weren't expecting a sliced and diced old Goldwing as the "new" offering. Ronnie I have a few wing friends too and they're waiting on the new 2000cc bike. Frankly I'm surprised it's not out yet. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 78
| Just came off a wing and have been there since 2002. I would not have it if you gave it to me,,,,,if I had to ride it. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 238
SF Bay Area | Naw, have ridden many 'Wings, over the years no thanks. I used to sell GoldWings... | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| No forward controls ,no floor boards same uncomfortable ride with no storage . | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | lstayner - 2012-11-19 3:21 PM
Monkeyman - 2012-11-18 11:02 PM
Bottom line is, no. I wouldn't consider the Wing (in any of its forms) now. If they changed a lot of stuff (e-shield, skinnier motor, floor boards, less crotch-rocket-on-steroids look, etc) AND lowered the price, I'd consider it but still not over the Vision.
Monkeyman,
Aren't you glad you found out how much fun the Vision is before you drank the HD Koolaid? I can see by your comments that you are "all in" when it comes to the Vision. I came off a Goldwing and have not regretted it for a moment.
Very much so. I've never had a bike I've enjoyed as much as I have the Vision. I just......fits me. It's not that I would never, ever, til my dying breath consider another bike but I don't know of any other bike currently in production that suits me more than this. Let me put it this way. I owned my last bike ('07 Kaw Nomad) almost exactly a year. I've had my Vision just over 2 months (and it's been rather chilly here since I bought it). I've put almost as many miles on the Vision in the pasts 2 months as I did the Nomad in 12 months.
Every brand has it's good/bad points. If I didn't mind the lack of legroom and the value was better, I might very well have considered a Gold Wing (then rode a Vision and kicked the Wing to the curb). I actually rode a few Harleys. It didn't take long to cross them off my list. If the Wing/Harley/Kawasaki/Ducati works for someone else, super! As long as you're on 2 wheels, you're my brother/sister. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 207
| "Would You Consider the New Gold Wing F6B?"
No | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | rdbudd - 2012-11-19 4:51 PM
kris1956 - 2012-11-19 5:03 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-11-19 4:21 PM does it still have a 5 speed? ?Still a 5 speed.
Still the same bike that was released in 2001, but with a tupperware change in 2012. And a loss of the trunk, centerstand and a few other things for 2013.
I quizzed my Goldwing riding buddies about the "new" F6B and they are not happy. They are still waiting for the long rumored 2000+cc six speed bike with the 150 HP motor and power windshield that gets 50 MPG. They were expecting it this year ( and last year, and the year before that). They were so very sure that with the move back to Japanese production that an all new Goldwing was just around the corner. They sure weren't expecting a sliced and diced old Goldwing as the "new" offering.
Ronnie
My Goldwing buddy was also pissed!  | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
| I like the F6B just fine, and at the same price, I wouldn't mind having one at all. I've removed my Vision trunk and like it better that way so no real issue there. But, footPEGS, bogus passenger pegs, no electric windshield, no heated seat and no self-canceling turn-signals? I'll stay with the Vision. And besides, the heart of the machine -- the motor, is a work of art. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | IndyVision - 2012-11-19 7:27 PM If I was interested in a honda, I'd go to a honda discussion website, not a Victory. I agree, what do you expect us to say on a Victory website about a Honda. While comments are gently put, try reading about a Victory on a Harley, or Wing site. The notion to put a poll on a Victory site about a Honda is laughable at best... | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | varyder - 2012-11-20 7:38 AM
IndyVision - 2012-11-19 7:27 PM If I was interested in a honda, I'd go to a honda discussion website, not a Victory. I agree, what do you expect us to say on a Victory website about a Honda.? While comments are gently put, try reading about a Victory on a Harley, or Wing site.? The notion to put a poll on a Victory site about a Honda is laughable at best...
That's true. See for yourselves what the Goldwing riders themselves think of it. They seem to be more interested in whether Honda has fixed the transmission problems yet. http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?334893-What-do-you-th...
Ronnie | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| To each their own, the poll doesn't bother me and people here are much more civil about the wing. The wing forum I read thoroughly trashed the Vision. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | Just because they don't know any better doesn't mean they're sub standard. (They just ride sub-standard bikes.) | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| <p><font size="3" face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Honda Won't fix the Transmission because they are coming out with new dual clutch tranny with automatic option ! Wonder were Victory stands on this,</font></p><p><font size="3" face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> we already have the 6 speed</font></p> | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 59
Marietta, GA | I wonder what an automatic would be like on a bike? I know the Spyder has an automatic and has great performance (the looks take some getting used to - though some say the Vision takes some getting used to too.). | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | i don't want an auto bike. I love changing gears. My Gold Wing buddy has expressed that he would love an auto trans. He loves scooters too. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | kris1956 - 2012-11-20 9:12 AM
To each their own, the poll doesn't bother me and people here are much more civil about the wing. The wing forum I read thoroughly trashed the Vision.
I'm a member of the Stratoliner forum and Victory ( mostly Visions and X bikes) comes up quite a bit there and they are largely positive about our brand.
Edited by jimtom 2012-11-20 11:58 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 166
Bullhead City, AZ | If you like to sit like a jockey or are under 5' 9" the GW would be comfortable. I tried one before the VV and never thought that it was bad until I took a ride on the VV | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | i'm 5'7". Iwould be comfortable on a wing if I had never sat on a Vision. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | wingit3611 - 2012-11-20 12:13 PM
Honda Won't fix the Transmission because they are coming out with new dual clutch tranny with automatic option !?? Wonder were Victory stands on this
Just noticed this post. (oops) I like an slush box in my truck so I can sit back and drive from point A to point B. It's transportation only. My Vision is rarely used "just for transportation". I put more miles on 2 wheels than on 4 but it's still just a toy. I enjoy shifting the bike just like I enjoyed shifting any of my Pontiac Fieros. It adds to my enjoyment. Honda can keep the slush box (as can BRP). They need to focus a bit more on ergonomics than a fancy tranny. | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 48
huntington In. | An automatic makes as much sence as one in a sports car or muscle car, it is just wrong. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| jimtom - 2012-11-20 11:52 AM i don't want an auto bike. I love changing gears. My Gold Wing buddy has expressed that he would love an auto trans. He loves scooters too. I have a few friends that as they've aged would ride an automatic, that's their decision. One day some of us may feel that way. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | I won't say never but I don't see me owning an auto trans bike (spyder maybe). I hope the good Lord sees me through to old age . If so, I know there will come a time when I can't hold up a bike and will have to look at trike kits or a Spyder. I test rode a spyder and it was fun, they seem to have a lot of trouble with them though and they only get about 30 mpg. I looked at the zero electric bikes in Atlanta earlier this month. they are of course automatic and I wouldn't mind having one to serve as commuter only to save on gas not for recreation though, nothing beats the Vision for that . | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | I lot of people say the F6B is not a touring bike because it doesn't have cruise, ABS and a power windshield. Next everyone will "need" an automatic transmission. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 430
| loren2 - 2012-11-26 9:52 AM If you like to sit like a jockey or are under 5' 9" the GW would be comfortable. I tried one before the VV and never thought that it was bad until I took a ride on the VV Ditto - I am 6' 2" and thought I had gone to mc heaven when I sat on the VV after test riding the GW. Could not believe the difference in the floorboards vs pegs, plus a v twin has soul. Sooo glad I got my Vic. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 161
Albuquerque NM | I would consider it, but I prefer to support American companies and American workers. So for me to switch to a foreign brand it would have to be a whole lot more bike for the money, and even being in my mid 30's I find the big foot boards are indispensible. So I doubt that I would switch away from my vision for a foreign bike. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Always one to stir the pot I have never understood people who say they want to "buy American". I first heard someone tell me that in 1980, when I pulled into the parking lot next to an associate. I was in a BMW and he was in a Caddy. He gave me a friendly sneer and made a comment about buying American made cars. To which I relied. "Really? Well, please tell me Cal, where was your Swiss watch made, and what about your Italian Loafers? And your French designed suit? And didn't you get that shirt tailored in Hong Kong?" He laughed and knew his buy American comment really did not hold water. Most people are the same. It's impossible to "Buy American" anymore.
We live in a Global society and have for the last 30 years. But today it is more evident than ever. Do you have an iPhone/iPad/iPod? MADE IN CHINA!! Duh~
And I would be willing to bet that while Victory Bikes are assembled in America, that many of their parts/components/raw materials came from another country.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the sentiment. It's just not valid anymore. We are in a Global society. We compete in a global society. And if we can build a better mousetrap, so be it. But build a better bike, no matter what the brand name or what country it is associated with and I'll buy it!
If Honda or Kawi, or Suzuki came out with a copy of the Vision I would very likely buy it. I find the engine design (water cooled), materials, and workmanship of those companies far better than the Victory or HD. Take the floppy shiter and brake pedal. Never had that in other bikes. And the Vision has had it for over 10 year. And it is such a simple fix. WTF~? There are other simple fix items that Victory has never addressed. I can only conclude that wither they don't ride (they would know and fix the deficits), or they don't care (they make a good profit, so like HD why change it?).
By the way, until the spring of 2009 Honda made 120 motorcycles a day in Dayton Ohio~
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-11-27 3:10 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | MaddMAx2u - 2012-11-27 3:05 PM
Always one to stir the pot I have never understood people who say they want to "buy American".
By the way, until the spring of 2009 Honda made 120 motorcycles a day in Dayton Ohio~
Because manufacturing creates wealth in a nation's economy and the citizens of that nation get to share in the prosperity. When we manufactured most of our consumer goods here, we had a trade surplus and a booming middle class. Now, we don't and we don't. We've joined the "global economy" and the race to the bottom.
By the way, until the spring of 2009 Honda ASSEMBLED 120 motorcycles a day in MARYSVILLE Ohio, from parts manufactured in Japan, Korea, China, and some from the USA. They moved final assembly back to Japan so they wouldn't have to pay the ever increasing cost of shipping the parts.
Ronnie | |
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Puddle Jumper
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Aberdeen SD | why is this in the VISION discussion section when it should be in General section | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 65
| No matter how old you get if you are able to hold up a bike as heavy as a Goldwing you DO NOT NEED AN AUTOMATIC TRANS unless your arthritis is really bad. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Ronnie, I'm afraid you are a little mistaken when referring to the former Honda of America motorcycle manufacturing plant in Ohio. First, it is in Marysville, Ohio, which is just northwest of Columbus, Ohio (I've been to the old Honda Homecoming a few times), second, as far as manufacturing plants go, Honda manufactured the frames for the Goldwing, VTX, and 1100 Shadows on the premises and all paint work was also performed there, the engines for those three different bikes (actually four because of the 1800 and 1300 VTXs) were manufactured and assembled from U.S. sourced castings in the Alma, Ohio engine plant, and the abs body panels for the Goldwings were also sourced from U.S. manufacturers, and third, the primary reason given by Honda for moving motorcycle production back to Japan was to insure higher quality standards (if you know, Honda had MAJOR problems with the frames of the '01-'04 GL1800 Goldwings along with other issues) and to centralize all large displacement motorcycle manufacturing under one roof to better accommodate a fast changing global market. The only parts of the '84-'10 Goldwings that came from Japan or other foreign countries were the forks, brakes, wheels, and electronics. If you pull the tire off of the stock rim on your Vision you will find "Made in China" cast into the wheel, the forks and rear shock are sourced from Showa (a company partially owned by Honda) in Japan, if you pull your brake or clutch reservoir covers you will find that they are manufactured by Nissin as well as the brake calipers and proportioning valve in the linked braking system (the front calipers are the same ones used on the '02-'03 Honda VTX1800 and on all years of the GL1800 Goldwing) the only difference is that Victory paid Nissin to cast the Victory name into the calipers. The radio on our Visions is made here in the U.S. by the same company that first was putting audio on the old Vetter fairing, Cycle Sound although I believe they changed their name, personally if it would have been me I would have sourced the audio and CB equipment from either Clarion or Mitsubishi as they have both been manufacturing the audio systems for the Honda Goldwings (Clarion for the GL1100, GL1200, and GL1500, Mitsubishi for the GL1800) since the early 1980's.
Edited by Travelin Man 2012-11-27 8:34 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| BTW, if you have never ridden a modern motorcycle with an automatic transmission (yet with manual clutchless shifting if desired) you don't know what you are missing or how much fun they can be, especially as a commuter bike. My wife rides a Suzuki Burgman 650 which I prefer to call a step through motorcycle rather than a scooter due to the performance ability it has, and it is a blast when you are running errands around town. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Buying American is important because it supports and bolsters American jobs which we need more than ever. It doesn't matter where the parts are sourced from , buying American when possible still supports an American worker. I buy American WHEN I CAN / WHEN I'M AWARE OF AN AMERICAN OPTION. I've noticed that people who argue against it are usually trying to justify themselves and their imports with the tired argument of foreign parts that make up the American made product. You are still supporting an American worker /American economy with the purchase of an American product no matter the foreign content of the item, you put food on an American table. I , along with many others, feel a strong conviction to buy American WHEN AVAILABLE / WHEN WE ARE AWARE OF AN AMERICAN MADE OPTION. This is a free country, if you buy or own anything import, that's your business and your right but don't pretend and try to convince others the We the people who share this conviction are hypocrites or that it doesn't matter, because it does. Yes, I'm sure I have tons of import crap at my house but if there was an Amercian option, and I was aware of it, I would choose American. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 804
Perry Hall, MD | Tempting lines, but that is where it stops. I swapped rides and took one 20 mile ride on a new wing and I couldn't wait to get back into my own saddle. Besides, the 2014 Vision is certain to have even greater aesthetic appeal, while retaining the floorboard and electric windshield features. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| jimtom - 2012-11-28 5:40 AM Buying American is important because it supports and bolsters American jobs which we need more than ever. It doesn't matter where the parts are sourced from , buying American when possible still supports an American worker. I buy American WHEN I CAN / WHEN I'M AWARE OF AN AMERICAN OPTION. I've noticed that people who argue against it are usually trying to justify themselves and their imports with the tired argument of foreign parts that make up the American made product. You are still supporting an American worker /American economy with the purchase of an American product no matter the foreign content of the item, you put food on an American table. I , along with many others, feel a strong conviction to buy American WHEN AVAILABLE / WHEN WE ARE AWARE OF AN AMERICAN MADE OPTION. This is a free country, if you buy or own anything import, that's your business and your right but don't pretend and try to convince others the We the people who share this conviction are hypocrites or that it doesn't matter, because it does. Yes, I'm sure I have tons of import crap at my house but if there was an Amercian option, and I was aware of it, I would choose American. +1 I wasn't trying to make excuses with my previous post, one of the reasons, besides the fact that it is a better and more reliable product than H-D and has a better comfort level, I switched from my Goldwing to the Vision is because even with some foreign sourced parts it is still built here in the United States. My wife and I have owned two new Kia Sorentos (2011 and 2013), a Korean owned company but with Sorento production and final assembly in a Georgia factory by American workers, it is one of the highest rated SUVs for safety and economy (my wife puts on 30K miles a year on her Sorento).
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Travelin Man - 2012-11-28 7:21 AM
jimtom - 2012-11-28 5:40 AM Buying American is important because it supports and bolsters American jobs which we need more than ever. It doesn't matter where the parts are sourced from , buying American when possible still supports an American worker. I buy American WHEN I CAN / WHEN I'M AWARE OF AN AMERICAN OPTION. I've noticed that people who argue against it are usually trying to justify themselves and their imports with the tired argument of foreign parts that make up the American made product. You are still supporting an American worker /American economy with the purchase of an American product no matter the foreign content of the item, you put food on an American table. I , along with many others, feel a strong conviction to buy American WHEN AVAILABLE / WHEN WE ARE AWARE OF AN AMERICAN MADE OPTION. This is a free country, if you buy or own anything import, that's your business and your right but don't pretend and try to convince others the We the people who share this conviction are hypocrites or that it doesn't matter, because it does. Yes, I'm sure I have tons of import crap at my house but if there was an Amercian option, and I was aware of it, I would choose American. +1 I wasn't trying to make excuses with my previous post, one of the reasons, besides the fact that it is a better and more reliable product than H-D and has a better comfort level, I switched from my Goldwing to the Vision is because even with some foreign sourced parts it is still built here in the United States.? My wife and I have owned two new Kia Sorentos? (2011 and 2013), a Korean owned company but with Sorento production and final assembly in a Georgia factory by American workers, it is one of the highest rated SUVs for safety and economy (my wife puts on 30K miles a year on her Sorento).
I wasn't refering to your posts. I was just saying I feel strongly about American workers. It is and always has been our nations lifeblood. The less support American jobs/workers gets the more American jobs that go away. The more American jobs that go away, the more America goes away. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Seems the pot has been stirred!! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Travelin Man - 2012-11-27 8:28 PM
Ronnie, I'm afraid you are a little mistaken when referring to the former Honda of America motorcycle manufacturing plant in Ohio. First, it is in Marysville, Ohio, which is just northwest of Columbus, Ohio (I've been to the old Honda Homecoming a few times), second, as far as manufacturing plants go, Honda manufactured the frames for the Goldwing, VTX, and 1100 Shadows on the premises and all paint work was also performed there, the engines for those three different bikes (actually four because of the 1800 and 1300 VTXs) were manufactured and assembled from U.S. sourced castings in the Alma, Ohio engine plant, and the abs body panels for the Goldwings were also sourced from U.S. manufacturers, and third, the primary reason given by Honda for moving motorcycle production back to Japan was to insure higher quality standards (if you know, Honda had MAJOR problems with the frames of the '01-'04 GL1800 Goldwings along with other issues) and to centralize all large displacement motorcycle manufacturing under one roof to better accommodate a fast changing global market. The only parts of the '84-'10 Goldwings that came from Japan or other foreign countries were the forks, brakes, wheels, and electronics. If you pull the tire off of the stock rim on your Vision you will find "Made in China" cast into the wheel, the forks and rear shock are sourced from Showa (a company partially owned by Honda) in Japan, if you pull your brake or clutch reservoir covers you will find that they are manufactured by Nissin as well as the brake calipers and proportioning valve in the linked braking system (the front calipers are the same ones used on the '02-'03 Honda VTX1800 and on all years of the GL1800 Goldwing) the only difference is that Victory paid Nissin to cast the Victory name into the calipers. The radio on our Visions is made here in the U.S. by the same company that first was putting audio on the old Vetter fairing, Cycle Sound although I believe they changed their name, personally if it would have been me I would have sourced the audio and CB equipment from either Clarion or Mitsubishi as they have both been manufacturing the audio systems for the Honda Goldwings (Clarion for the GL1100, GL1200, and GL1500, Mitsubishi for the GL1800) since the early 1980's.
That's what I said. The Goldwings were assembled from parts manufactured in Japan, Korea, China, and the USA in Marysville Ohio. Go back and read my post. The transmission cases were cast in the USA, but the gears that went into them and the engine came from Japan. My point was that the Goldwing wasn't "manufactured" in the USA. Much of the manufacturing, which creates wealth in the economies of the countries that do the actual manufacturing, was done somewhere else. The older Hondas that people like to say were "made in the USA" , like my old Honda CB900 Custom, had a sticker on the frame that read "assembled from parts manufactured in Japan and the USA" . The 2001 - 2010 Goldwing had nothing on them that read "Manufactured in the USA". Assembly and manufacturing are two completely different concepts. Sure, the American assembly plant worker has a job, but what about all the other manufacturing jobs that went overseas that could have been American jobs, but aren't? That was my point.
Sadly, Victory has moved in the same direction. They had to in order to compete in "the global economy" (read- race to the bottom of the economic wage scale). My 2000 Sport Cruiser had enough American manufactured parts that it came with a "Made In The USA" sticker and an American flag decal, with "Made In The USA" on the rear fender. The Victory boots I bought that year are also "Made IN The USA". Sadly, by the time Victory got around to producing my Vision, they had outsourced much of the manufacturing to Japan and China. My Vision is not "Made In The USA". It is ASSEMBLED in the USA. Like many other American jobs, those manufacturing jobs are lost to other countries. Like I said before, we have joined the "global economy" and the race to the economic bottom. That's bad. Very, very bad. When the "global economy" takes everybody's wages to the bottom, ours go with it. I liked it better when we had an independent economy. That is what allowed this country to become the most prosperous on earth. We are rapidly losing that.
American manufacturing jobs were very important. We've lost far too many of them. We, the USA, used to be the world's leading manufacturer and ran huge trade surpluses. Everybody else was in debt to US. Jobs were readily available and paid well. Now, we are the world's larger debtor nation, $16 Trillion in debt and counting, are literally selling the USA to China piece by piece, and have millions of people out of work and parasitically living off those who do still have a job here. I love my Victory bikes, but I'm not happy that they are only ASSEMBLED in the USA. That is not good enough.
Ronnie | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Um Ronnie, please re-read my post, if you had ever visited the Honda engine plant in Alma, Ohio you would know that the Goldwing and VTX engines were MANUFACTURED there with US SOURCED INTERNAL PARTS, not merely assembled. The engine case, which in the case of all Hondas includes the transmission, had cast right in it "MADE IN U.S.A.". Other than a few parts like electronics, brakes, and suspension, the '01-'10 Honda Goldwing was as Made in U.S.A. as any Victory or Harley-Davidson.
I love my Victory but if you are going to talk crap about the competition such as Honda, at least truly educate yourself about the subject and I don't mean by listening or reading what is said by fellow riders. In the case of Honda I have been on multiple tours of both the Marysville assembly plant and the Alma engine plant (which still MANUFACTURES engines for the Honda Civic, Accord, and Element). | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I'm quite familiar with the GL1800. Somehow, I missed the "Made In The USA" cast into the engine. I'll have to get my magnifying glass out and see if I can find it. It is my understanding that the frames for the Goldwing were made in Canada (per a dealer statement), and yes, I'm very aware of the cracked frames. And, the overheating motors and the transmissions jumping out of 5th gear. However, I have not been through the Marysville plant myself. I'll have to defer to you on that one. However, you may have been misled about where the parts being assembled were actually manufactured. When the Tsunami hit Japan, the assembly plants in Marysville were severely affected, because they couldn't get enough parts from Japan. http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2011/mar/30/honda-reductions-impact-mary...
As I recall, 3 or 4 GM plants also had to reduce operations because of the Japanese Tsunami, and so much of the GM products are assembled from parts manufactured in Japan.
I have been through the Spirit Lake Victory plant. I could see that it is an assembly plant. Parts are assembled there. Some of the parts were made here. Some weren't.
I'm not talking crap about Honda. I like Hondas. I've owned a few, as well as several Suzukis and a couple of Yamahas and two Kawasakis. I know that Victory and Harley (and Chevy and Ford)also assemble their products from parts manufactured elsewhere. That is what I'm complaining about. That is the point I am trying to make. We've lost too many jobs because we do not manufacture much here anymore. We assemble parts manufactured somewhere else. It doesn't matter which parts are made where, if they aren't made here. As I get older, I can see in hindsight just how important American manufacturing was to this country. We are losing that. We are going to pay the price. We are paying the price already, and it's going to get much worse if we don't bring manufacturing back to this country.
You will not find a post made by me anywhere on this forum or any other where I said I don't like Honda Goldwings. You will find posts made by me that say I like the Victory Vision better than a Goldwing and I list the reasons why. You will also find posts by me where I said that I consider the Goldwing and the Vision to be equal overall, with each one having some features better than the other.
You did not see me say I did not like the new Honda F6B. I did report that my friends who still ride Goldwings did not like it.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2012-11-28 10:11 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Ronnie,
I agree about the loss of American manufacturing as I am one of them, especially with my primary product line of cutting tools. My business has picked up dramatically in the past three months, just one of the reasons I fell behind on getting the second run of the jet exhaust tips machined, and now I'm in a position where I need to fill at least two full time positions (I'm currently down 10 employees to 6 from 2008 but I will never again go above 10 full time employees total due to Obamacare) with qualified machinists which are next to impossible to find due to people getting out of manufacturing jobs and into the service industry. Where as 20 or 30 years ago kids in high school either had a shop class that taught them basic machining skills or went to a vocational school to learn to become a machinist, today they are told in high school that if they do not attend college they will never become anything, which of course is a bunch of liberal B.S. The funny thing is that these are good paying jobs, between $50K to $60K for someone with even basic experience and I haven't been able to find one qualified applicant out of nearly 100 people that have applied and those who have applied run from right out of college expecting $80K a year to no machine shop experience at all where they can't even read or properly use a micrometer. We have lost a skill set in our workforce that will be next to impossible to replace in today's working environment and mindset.
That said, while the Honda F6B, which the name is a take-off of the original F6 Valkyrie, is a sharp looking bike, I feel it is Honda's late, very late, attempt to seize on the bagger fad, kind of like when Honda introduced the Fury, just a little late on the chopper scene. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | Travelin Man - 2012-11-29 6:53 PM
Ronnie,
I agree about the loss of American manufacturing as I am one of them, especially with my primary product line of cutting tools. My business has picked up dramatically in the past three months, just one of the reasons I fell behind on getting the second run of the jet exhaust tips machined, and now I'm in a position where I need to fill at least two full time positions (I'm currently down 10 employees to 6 from 2008 but I will never again go above 10 full time employees total due to Obamacare) with qualified machinists which are next to impossible to find due to people getting out of manufacturing jobs and into the service industry. Where as 20 or 30 years ago kids in high school either had a shop class that taught them basic machining skills or went to a vocational school to learn to become a machinist, today they are told in high school that if they do not attend college they will never become anything, which of course is a bunch of liberal B.S. The funny thing is that these are good paying jobs, between $50K to $60K for someone with even basic experience and I haven't been able to find one qualified applicant out of nearly 100 people that have applied and those who have applied run from right out of college expecting $80K a year to no machine shop experience at all where they can't even read or properly use a micrometer. We have lost a skill set in our workforce that will be next to impossible to replace in today's working environment and mindset.
That said, while the Honda F6B, which the name is a take-off of the original F6 Valkyrie, is a sharp looking bike, I feel it is Honda's late, very late, attempt to seize on the bagger fad, kind of like when Honda introduced the Fury, just a little late on the chopper scene.
Amen! on all points. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 281
| There are pretty clear guidelines on what products can be shown as MADE IN USA or not.
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard
FWIW, when you buy a car in the USA, the window sticker will indicate what percentage of parts are Made in USA/North America, or elsewhere.
I would gladly pay more for a Victory if it was able to sport the claim MADE IN USA and not just assembled in USA.
FYI, I believe the Victory engine and transmission are made at a facility in Wisconsin and shipped to Spirit Lake for final assembly. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Travelin Man - 2012-11-29 8:53 PM
Where as 20 or 30 years ago kids in high school either had a shop class that taught them basic machining skills or went to a vocational school to learn to become a machinist, today they are told in high school that if they do not attend college they will never become anything, which of course is a bunch of liberal B.S.
That said, while the Honda F6B, which the name is a take-off of the original F6 Valkyrie, is a sharp looking bike, I feel it is Honda's late, very late, attempt to seize on the bagger fad, kind of like when Honda introduced the Fury, just a little late on the chopper scene.
Yea, Damned liberals. Of course I hear the Right Wingers talking the need for more vocational schools all the time. (Please note the sarcasm dripping from that comment) It's a Brave New World, and not your Fathers Era anymore. We are a service not a manufacturing society today. Apple designs and creates the iPhone but it is made overseas. Profits come back to the US. The engineers and software designers are the future. Hence the need for a college education and the disappearance of technical-vocational schools. You may not like it, but that's where we have been moving for the last 30 years. With the advent of 3D printers the "manufacuring" of products might very well return to the US but it will not be the same industry. It will be a computer guided industry. Need a part? Download the software and "print" it! Need new Nike shoes? Buy the software for the shoe, and "print" it. Even NASA is using 3D printing to create parts that previously needed to be assembled and welded together! And a group of research scientists are working on an application that would allow the "printing" of human organs. Just google it for more info. Things change. The industrial revolution has come and gone. The tech and communication revolution is in full swing. Sorry guys. I miss the old days too.
And +1 on Honda's late entry once again. Surprisingly I think they will find a following for the new F6B. The real question is will they sell enough to keep it or will ot go the way of the Rune?
Now........ where is my flip phone? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-11-30 8:18 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | no, right wingers want Americans to rise up and make their own way, Gain a sense of worth, contribute to the system, it's how this country was built. liberals want Americans to sit back with open mouths and open hands sucking on hind tit as my pop used to say, while they feed them out of a tax payer pocket, it's how this country is being dismantled. Tax payer/worker becoming extinct. What will we do then? We have sold out our country.
Edited by jimtom 2012-11-30 8:23 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Google NASA 3D printing. Here's one link. THis stuff is amazing and being used in many industries for plastic parts. NASA is doing it with metal!
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/140084-nasa-3d-prints-rocket-par... | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | jimtom, ok, whatever. But you missed the point. It was said that liberals were promoting college not tech-vocational schools. I was saying that NO ONE has been promoting vocational-technical schools!! And if liberals are promoting college, how does that match with your description of a liberal? Doesn't really match does it? Please, don't twist my words. This is not about party affiliation. It's not about liberal vs. Right wing. It's about the loss of manufacturing overseas. And that is just the evolution of our country.
Now..........did you find your flip phone? And don't forget to turn on the answering machine before you leave home.
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Look at the leg position....so the answer is clearly no. I got rid of my BMW LT for the single reason it killed my knees being locked into that position....just terrible ergonomic foot position. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 188
| rdbudd - 2012-11-28 6:30 PM
Travelin Man - 2012-11-27 8:28 PM
Ronnie, I'm afraid you are a little mistaken when referring to the former Honda of America motorcycle manufacturing plant in Ohio. First, it is in Marysville, Ohio, which is just northwest of Columbus, Ohio (I've been to the old Honda Homecoming a few times), second, as far as manufacturing plants go, Honda manufactured the frames for the Goldwing, VTX, and 1100 Shadows on the premises and all paint work was also performed there, the engines for those three different bikes (actually four because of the 1800 and 1300 VTXs) were manufactured and assembled from U.S. sourced castings in the Alma, Ohio engine plant, and the abs body panels for the Goldwings were also sourced from U.S. manufacturers, and third, the primary reason given by Honda for moving motorcycle production back to Japan was to insure higher quality standards (if you know, Honda had MAJOR problems with the frames of the '01-'04 GL1800 Goldwings along with other issues) and to centralize all large displacement motorcycle manufacturing under one roof to better accommodate a fast changing global market. The only parts of the '84-'10 Goldwings that came from Japan or other foreign countries were the forks, brakes, wheels, and electronics. If you pull the tire off of the stock rim on your Vision you will find "Made in China" cast into the wheel, the forks and rear shock are sourced from Showa (a company partially owned by Honda) in Japan, if you pull your brake or clutch reservoir covers you will find that they are manufactured by Nissin as well as the brake calipers and proportioning valve in the linked braking system (the front calipers are the same ones used on the '02-'03 Honda VTX1800 and on all years of the GL1800 Goldwing) the only difference is that Victory paid Nissin to cast the Victory name into the calipers. The radio on our Visions is made here in the U.S. by the same company that first was putting audio on the old Vetter fairing, Cycle Sound although I believe they changed their name, personally if it would have been me I would have sourced the audio and CB equipment from either Clarion or Mitsubishi as they have both been manufacturing the audio systems for the Honda Goldwings (Clarion for the GL1100, GL1200, and GL1500, Mitsubishi for the GL1800) since the early 1980's.
That's what I said. The Goldwings were assembled from parts manufactured in Japan, Korea, China, and the USA in Marysville Ohio. Go back and read my post. The transmission cases were cast in the USA, but the gears that went into them and the engine came from Japan. My point was that the Goldwing wasn't "manufactured" in the USA. Much of the manufacturing, which creates wealth in the economies of the countries that do the actual manufacturing, was done somewhere else. The older Hondas that people like to say were "made in the USA" , like my old Honda CB900 Custom, had a sticker on the frame that read "assembled from parts manufactured in Japan and the USA" . The 2001 - 2010 Goldwing had nothing on them that read "Manufactured in the USA". Assembly and manufacturing are two completely different concepts. Sure, the American assembly plant worker has a job, but what about all the other manufacturing jobs that went overseas that could have been American jobs, but aren't? That was my point.
Sadly, Victory has moved in the same direction. They had to in order to compete in "the global economy" (read- race to the bottom of the economic wage scale). My 2000 Sport Cruiser had enough American manufactured parts that it came with a "Made In The USA" sticker and an American flag decal, with "Made In The USA" on the rear fender. The Victory boots I bought that year are also "Made IN The USA". Sadly, by the time Victory got around to producing my Vision, they had outsourced much of the manufacturing to Japan and China. My Vision is not "Made In The USA". It is ASSEMBLED in the USA. Like many other American jobs, those manufacturing jobs are lost to other countries. Like I said before, we have joined the "global economy" and the race to the economic bottom. That's bad. Very, very bad. When the "global economy" takes everybody's wages to the bottom, ours go with it. I liked it better when we had an independent economy. That is what allowed this country to become the most prosperous on earth. We are rapidly losing that.
American manufacturing jobs were very important. We've lost far too many of them. We, the USA, used to be the world's leading manufacturer and ran huge trade surpluses. Everybody else was in debt to US. Jobs were readily available and paid well. Now, we are the world's larger debtor nation, $16 Trillion in debt and counting, are literally selling the USA to China piece by piece, and have millions of people out of work and parasitically living off those who do still have a job here. I love my Victory bikes, but I'm not happy that they are only ASSEMBLED in the USA. That is not good enough.
Ronnie
The big difference is when buying American, that little people seem to realize or talk of, when you buy a domestic, you are supporting far far far more employees because most the engineering and administration work is done in country. When you buy an import, most of their engineering and administration work is done in their home country. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Looks allright, but NO I wouldn't buy one, have two touring bikes already. The Vision and my RG......No room for a stripped ( but cool looking ) GW. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| Gee, I wonder how many other forums ask people if they would consider a Vision. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | IndyVision - 2013-01-01 4:48 PM
Gee, I wonder how many other forums ask people if they would consider a Vision.
At least four that I'm aware of. Just like here, most of the people on those forums are loyal to their current ride, convinced that they have the best. Most of them have strong opinions about why theirs is the best, but few have actually ridden a Vision. Some folks are kind to the Vision, but aren't willing to leave the herd to buy one (not just an HD thing either).
Just Google anything like Vision vs Goldwing or Vision vs Harley or Vision vs BMW, etc and you'll find links to those forums.
Ronnie | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 16
so.md. | no. be a patriot, buy american. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 63
Calgary, AB, | Sat on the new F6B this past weekend at our local bike show. It's only the 2nd Wing I've ever sat on , but at 6'3", I concur with others' comments about the leg room. It wouild be OK for a time period but not for multi hour rides. I did kind of like the look, at least vs the standards Wing. It's running about $ 21K Cdn funds (Honda List I guess) with no GPS, no reverse no center stand, rear box etc etc.
I'll stay with my Vision, which as others have said is the MOST comfortable bike I'd ever sat on. As soon as I did, I bought one! | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
Fernandina Beach, Florida | I'm late to this interesting and "enlightening" thread. For sure I can appreciate the passion in all the comments and emotions about "point of manufacture" and country of origin content. Nothing too much more I can add to that.
But, as a new Vision owner who loves the bike and it's ride, performance, and comfort, it would be hard to go to an F6B. Also making it tough is the 1997 Valkyrie F6 "bumble bee" sharing garage space with the Vision. It is a keeper for as long as I can ride heavy bikes. A perfect "mix and match" to the Vision. It is a Tourer, no trunk, solo Mustang seat when I want and has that fabulous flat 6 look and sound. Not to mention the great acceleration and torque "anywhere".
Sometimes I just look at both of them sitting there and pinch myself to remember how fortunate I am to enjoy 2 very special rides.
BTW, I voted that I would not buy an F6B over the Vision...... | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | I like the...................5 speed......................overdrive.......................transmission. And in 3 - 2 - 1 - | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Rollin' - 2013-01-09 10:45 AM
I like the...................5 speed......................overdrive.......................transmission. And in 3 -?2 -?1 -
Heh! I forget. Did we already do that one? 
Ronnie | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
| I sat on one at the Edmonton Bike show yesterday, its still a gold wing with the upright sitting position, not for me. | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 11
Crystal Lake, IL United States | I WOULD NOT CONSIDER THE NEW Gold wing had a 2003 and that was when they were having frame crack issues.I had to go thru alot of inspections.They said was fine then they contacted me and said I had to bring the bike back in and they wanted to weld on the frame and if I did not the warranty would be VOID.So after all that and a couple of other recalls to change various things,I got rid of it and ride the best bike made Victory Vision. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | My friend had to have his welded too | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I still ride with "Wingers. Among them we have seen cracked frames, overheating motors (Honda issued recalls for both) and transmissions jumping out of gear (that one is still going on even with recent year models). Honda has had their quality control problems too. The perfect defect free machine has yet to be invented.
Ronnie | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | rdbudd - 2013-01-15 11:54 AM
The perfect defect free machine has yet to be invented.
Ronnie
+1 | |
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