|
|
Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Synthetic Oils:
"Slipperiness" in a Wet Clutch Many people have the misperception that since synthetics are more slippery than petroleum oils (which do not reduce friction as well), that wet clutch packs in either their automotive or motorcycle transmissions will slip when using "super slippery synthetics". This is just one of many myths about synthetics. Synthetic oils are no more "slippery" than petroleum oil. AMSOIL Synthetic Oils simply have a more uniform molecular structure which reduces frictional resistance better than the irregular shape and size molecular structure of a petroleum oil. Look at it this way. Wet sandpaper removes paint as well as dry sandpaper does. The slipperiness of the water does not impede the sandpaper's ability to function. The same applies to the "slipperiness" of synthetic lubes in wet clutches. If used dry, the sandpaper is soon filled with paint and no longer works- it slips across the surface without grasping the surface. If kept clean and free of paint, it continues to work. The lubricating/cleaning solution used can be water, soap, oil or any other liquid. The liquid's slipperiness does not affect the performance of the sandpaper. It is simply not an issue. However, just as rinsing the sandpaper keeps it cleaner longer so it functions better longer, so the AMSOIL Synthetic Oils keeps wet clutch plates cleaner longer so they function better. AMSOIL Synthetic Oils will prevent deposit buildup on clutch plates, therefore keeping the face clean and able to do its job in preventing slippage. And, since synthetics are superior cooling agents to conventional petroleum lubes, using synthetics will help wet clutches last longer, too. Petroleum oils have low resistance to heat and allow varnish and glaze to form on clutch plates, which eventually leads to slippage and increased heat generation and eventually failure of the clutch pack. Also, AMSOIL motorcycle oils are specifically formulated without any friction modifiers for compatibility with wet clutch packs. AMSOIL ATF lubricants are also designed with specific coefficient of friction values to meet the requirements of each and every specification that it not only meets, but far exceeds. Now you know the facts. The next time your buddy mentions using AMSOIL Synthetic Oils and Wet Clutches as a potential issue, you can explain to him exactly why it is simply not an issue. Be sure to check out the other Ten Myths of Synthetic Lubricants.
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | john frey - 2012-05-08 6:46 PM Synthetic Oils:
"Slipperiness" in a Wet Clutch Many people have the misperception that since synthetics are more slippery than petroleum oils (which do not reduce friction as well), that wet clutch packs in either their automotive or motorcycle transmissions will slip when using "super slippery synthetics". This is just one of many myths about synthetics. Synthetic oils are no more "slippery" than petroleum oil. AMSOIL Synthetic Oils simply have a more uniform molecular structure which reduces frictional resistance better than the irregular shape and size molecular structure of a petroleum oil. Look at it this way. Wet sandpaper removes paint as well as dry sandpaper does. The slipperiness of the water does not impede the sandpaper's ability to function. The same applies to the "slipperiness" of synthetic lubes in wet clutches. If used dry, the sandpaper is soon filled with paint and no longer works- it slips across the surface without grasping the surface. If kept clean and free of paint, it continues to work. The lubricating/cleaning solution used can be water, soap, oil or any other liquid. The liquid's slipperiness does not affect the performance of the sandpaper. It is simply not an issue. However, just as rinsing the sandpaper keeps it cleaner longer so it functions better longer, so the AMSOIL Synthetic Oils keeps wet clutch plates cleaner longer so they function better. AMSOIL Synthetic Oils will prevent deposit buildup on clutch plates, therefore keeping the face clean and able to do its job in preventing slippage. And, since synthetics are superior cooling agents to conventional petroleum lubes, using synthetics will help wet clutches last longer, too. Petroleum oils have low resistance to heat and allow varnish and glaze to form on clutch plates, which eventually leads to slippage and increased heat generation and eventually failure of the clutch pack. Also, AMSOIL motorcycle oils are specifically formulated without any friction modifiers for compatibility with wet clutch packs. AMSOIL ATF lubricants are also designed with specific coefficient of friction values to meet the requirements of each and every specification that it not only meets, but far exceeds. Now you know the facts. The next time your buddy mentions using AMSOIL Synthetic Oils and Wet Clutches as a potential issue, you can explain to him exactly why it is simply not an issue. Be sure to check out the other Ten Myths of Synthetic Lubricants.
As soon as I saw AMSOIL MOTORCYCLE OILS you lost me. From there it was just blah, blah, blah, why my product is superior over the next product. Good speil though. I think amsoil is a good oil, and I believe it performs well under most circumstances. Given certain circumstances and behaviors, amsoil may not be the best application, and they'd be lying if they said so. I use to peddle Mobile 1 when it first came out. Read everything about Mobil 1 to include what others said about it. We had a regular customer with an older car come in and want Mobile 1. I refused to sell it to him at first and explained why. But he continued to insist and the boss said "do it". Well, he got a high price education in Mobile 1 in high mileage engines that had been on dino oil. My only point in this illustration is application. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Since you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're" you've lost all credibility with me. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Your statement "Synthetic oils are no more "slippery" than petroleum oil. AMSOIL Synthetic Oils simply have a more uniform molecular structure which reduces frictional resistance better than the irregular shape and size molecular structure of a petroleum oil" contradicts itself. If one oil reduces frictional resistance better than another, then it IS in fact SLIPPERIER. Ba-zinga! |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 94
milwaukee wisconsin | one must understand what he is reading before he writes !!! |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | the whole entire idea before synthetic has NOTHING to do with how slippery the oil is... email mobil, castrol any of the companies and they will all tell you the same thing.. the term synthetic only refers to man made... not how slippery it is... the Main idea behind sythetic oil it to withstand heat and breakdown better than dino oil. and then in most cases synthetic oil also keeps your engine cleaner because its not breaking down (burning) and leaving deposites. NOW while synthetics are NOT more slippery they DO have extremely pressure additives to withstand the pressures and forces within a engine.. im not talking about motorcycle oil, just synth in general. this isnt any kind of secret. any google search will prove this. hell even on the oil forums if a Newbie comes on there and buys brand A synthetic and then goes off on a rant about how slippery it is over dino you can believe the flame throwers are firing up..... googles top 10 myths about synthetic oil or anything other Myths about synthetic. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | a few myths from DIFFERENT makers (not just Amsoil)
mobil http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/synthetics/myths.aspx
amsoil http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/articlemyths.aspx
texlube http://www.texlube.com/oilmyths.htm
castrol http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9014502...
Since any posting from amsoil is of course a LIE and cant be trusted. i decided to post 2 FAQ from mobil.. my guess they arent being truthful either.. only the maker of victory oil will tell the truth.. but of course they dont post any info at all on their oil. you just have to base you purchase on what your dealer tells you and we all know our dealers know Everything about the products they sell!
What are the overall advantages of Mobil 1 motorcycle oils?
In addition to the overall benefits listed above ? specifically, high-temperature stability and low volatility/low oil consumption ? Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oils also offer superior anti-corrosion performance compared to conventional motor oil, which is important in many parts of the country where bikes may sit in garages for several months of the year.
Compared to conventional oils, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils provide superior wear and high-temperature protection, and promote engine cleanliness and lower oil consumption.
Once you get past these general advantages, you have to deal with each specific motorcycle oil one at a time to understand the benefits.
Okay. Let's start with Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40. What does it offer that Mobil 1 for cars does not?
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motor oil has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.
The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.
In addition, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 has a high performance dispersant/detergent technology for better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness. Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars. (Updated December 2007)
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-08 8:14 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | buy my synthetic, no buy mine, no, no buy mine....
just ribbing, I'm not recommending a full synthetic, but I don't believe you'll burn up if you do. Just know what you're doing and not doing something just because someone else said it was okay.... |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | the reason why people want a "better" oil, full synthetic and dont just settle for what everyone else is using is the same reason why this is Not a Harley forum... |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 152
Litchfield Park, AZ | Comparing oil to sandpaper.....now I have hear it all! |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Just wondering, if you put sandpaper in Amsoil 20W-50 would the clutch still slip? |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | John Frey, you are sooooooo right! What was I thinking. It wasn't the OIL causing my clutch slippage. At least not since I changed to this brand. Hey, it's a radioteacher recommended brand. And for the last 300 miles all the clutch slippage is GONE! Check it out!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fak_RmAp5M&feature=fvwrel
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-05-08 9:16 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | MaddMAx2u - 2012-05-08 9:15 PM
John Frey, you are sooooooo right! What was I thinking. It wasn't the OIL causing my clutch slippage. At least not since I changed to this brand. Hey, it's a radioteacher recommended brand. And for the last 300 miles all the clutch slippage is GONE! Check it out!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fak_RmAp5M&feature=fvwrel
This is a good one.....I am getting out the popcorn!
"It really is the best of both worlds!"
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Hey, Teach! I noticed that you change the oil from the driver's side of the bike. I almost always do it from the passenger side. Could this make the oil get dirtier? Also, I didn't see what you used to lubricate the filter gasket cause you did it so fast. Did you spit on it like the girls do in the movies or did you use Kentucky Jelly for that? Great instructional video otherwise, thanks! |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | More uniform molecules i.e smaller molecules
Lots of zinc which is a wadding metal |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| baadawg - 2012-05-08 11:01 PM
Hey, Teach! I noticed that you change the oil from the driver's side of the bike. I almost always do it from the passenger side. Could this make the oil get dirtier? Also, I didn't see what you used to lubricate the filter gasket cause you did it so fast. Did you spit on it like the girls do in the movies or did you use Kentucky Jelly for that? Great instructional video otherwise, thanks!
LMAO  |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 390
| Synthetic oil is Dino oil.....synthetic oil is refined under pressurized hydrogen. This causes a different break down in the refining process. Then they add VII's to the product to achieve the viscosity they require......just throwing that out there...their ...they're....lol |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | chesshiretuna - 2012-05-09 11:42 AM
Synthetic oil is Dino oil.....synthetic oil is refined under pressurized hydrogen. This causes a different break down in the refining process. Then they add VII's to the product to achieve the viscosity they require......just throwing that out there...their ...they're....lol
Actually not all, but most synthetic oils are just a group III Base stock with a ton of additives. The word synthetic does not guarantee anything. Especially after the law/ruling was changed a few years ago about what can and cant not be labeled a synthetic oil.. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | Using 50 weight oil instead of the reccomended ( Even by Amsoil) 40 weight, on the other hand, MAY cause the oil to not displace as rapidly from between the clutch plates, causing them not to fully engage as rapidly. Just a thought. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Mudge - 2012-05-09 12:43 PM
Using 50 weight oil instead of the reccomended ( Even by Amsoil) 40 weight, on the other hand, MAY cause the oil to not displace as rapidly from between the clutch plates, causing them not to fully engage as rapidly. Just a thought.
This was my thought as well. I wouldn't use Amsoil 20w50... but I would use 10w40. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 401
| Isn't Amsoil a subsidiary of Amway? |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | That's why I feel healthy when I use it.... |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | NO, NO, NO it's a subsidiary of the now defunct (?) Tupperware and I'm having a party!!! There will be all kinds of oil there, even a new SALAD oil by the Tupperware subsidiary. And you can use the left over containers for carrying all kinds of food!! |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | sgiacci - 2012-05-09 3:02 PM
Isn't Amsoil a subsidiary of Amway?
what because they start with the same two letters??? |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 73
Sullivan, IN United States | Oh NO. Is this another oil thread? |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 390
| MaddMAx2u - 2012-05-09 7:10 PM
NO, NO, NO it's a subsidiary of the now defunct (?) Tupperware and I'm having a party!!! There will be all kinds of oil there, even a new SALAD oil by the Tupperware subsidiary. And you can use the left over containers for carrying all kinds of food!!
Bwahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah...
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | never saw this before (pdf) http://tinyurl.com/bp9v7lu
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-11 7:37 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Good read, most of it just basic automotive principals, and the rest is a sales pitch. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 373
Lansing, MI |
Say what you want but I have EXPERIENCED it first hand. Went back to Vic oil and then Rotella and it never slipped again. Keep in mind I ride my bikes HARD. I think the average put-put Joe most likely will not have this problem... |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | cook06vegas - 2012-05-13 10:53 AM
Say what you want but I have EXPERIENCED it first hand. Went back to Vic oil and then Rotella and it never slipped again. Keep in mind I ride my bikes HARD. I think the average put-put Joe most likely will not have this problem...
what weight of oil was you using when you had the clutch slip? |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | cook06vegas - 2012-05-13 11:53 AM Say what you want but I have EXPERIENCED it first hand. Went back to Vic oil and then Rotella and it never slipped again. Keep in mind I ride my bikes HARD. I think the average put-put Joe most likely will not have this problem... What of Rotella are you using? full synthetic or the blend. I've gone back to a blend after using full-synthetic and find that the clutch feels good again. Currently using the Lucas 10w40 motorcycle oil.
Edited by varyder 2012-05-13 12:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 373
Lansing, MI | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 11:59 AM
cook06vegas - 2012-05-13 10:53 AM
Say what you want but I have EXPERIENCED it first hand. Went back to Vic oil and then Rotella and it never slipped again. Keep in mind I ride my bikes HARD. I think the average put-put Joe most likely will not have this problem...
what weight of oil was you using when you had the clutch slip?
The 10W-40 "Motorcycle Oil " |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 373
Lansing, MI | varyder - 2012-05-13 1:49 PM
cook06vegas - 2012-05-13 11:53 AM Say what you want but I have EXPERIENCED it first hand. Went back to Vic oil and then Rotella and it never slipped again. Keep in mind I ride my bikes HARD. I think the average put-put Joe most likely will not have this problem... What of Rotella are you using? full synthetic or the blend.? I've gone back to a blend after using full-synthetic and find that the clutch feels good again.? Currently using the Lucas 10w40 motorcycle oil.
The blend "T5" 10-40 in the silver jug
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | yes, that is the blend, they don't have it in Wally-world here, only 10w30, that is why I went with Lucas from O'Reillys. Got the wix filter there too, one stop shop. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | cook06vegas - 2012-05-13 12:55 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 11:59 AM
cook06vegas - 2012-05-13 10:53 AM
Say what you want but I have EXPERIENCED it first hand. Went back to Vic oil and then Rotella and it never slipped again. Keep in mind I ride my bikes HARD. I think the average put-put Joe most likely will not have this problem...
what weight of oil was you using when you had the clutch slip?
The 10W-40 "Motorcycle Oil "
wow if your clutch slipped with 10w40 its probably pretty worn or weak components... considering i know people with HayaBusa's (0-60mph 2.47sec) that run 10w40 and this is a bike that would put ours to shame with power and performance.. i just dont understand why a bike with performance greater than a Lamborghini Diablo doesnt have these issues with amsoil 10w40 but "some" of these Visions with 92hp are.. keep in mind these guys with these busa's are probably rougher on the clutches than we are...lol wheelies, drag racing and everything else these bikes can do... like i said in another post we have the same clutch as the 600some lbs 8ball.... its "almost" like buying a F150 and finding it the same transmission componenet are in the Ford Escort.. LOL =) |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 373
Lansing, MI |
Yeah, my Vegas with 6K miles on it had a worn down weak clutch that after I went back to Vic oil fixed itself. DAMN! These Victory's are AMAZING. I've never had another mechanical device that's done that!
BTW, I am not the only person in the world of Victory who has seen this first hand.
I say, try AmsOil, go for it. It's great oil. It should be for what it cost! That's another thing. Is it worth what it costs? Probably not. Maybe it'll work for other people???
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | cook06vegas - 2012-05-13 3:06 PM
Yeah, my Vegas with 6K miles on it had a worn down weak clutch that after I went back to Vic oil fixed itself. DAMN! These Victory's are AMAZING. I've never had another mechanical device that's done that!
BTW, I am not the only person in the world of Victory who has seen this first hand.
I say, try AmsOil, go for it. It's great oil. It should be for what it cost! That's another thing. Is it worth what it costs? Probably not. Maybe it'll work for other people???
so if your clutch slips and mine doesnt and we use the oil is from the same chemistry are you saying my clutch is better than yours? or did amsoil have a special batch for me and all my other 7 motorcycles that used it? either way there are WAY MORE people not slipping (like the example of the 200mph busa) .. It could never be a issue with Victory god know NO one ever has warranty work or defective products with them. my $900 dashboard that needed replaced was probably because i turn it on and off to many times in a 24 hour period. my gear indicator that always read the wrong gear was actually probably from me living in the city and needed to shift up and down too often. and my volume button that changed the stations instead of increasing the volume was probably actually the radio stations fault.. it cant be a design/ defect Never... btw all those people that had to have their ABS units serviced over the past year, it was not victory's fault it was user error by NOT using both the rear and the front brake at the exact same time using the exact same pressure... shame on all of you for filing a warranty claim on the part of victory and making them look bad! =(
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-13 4:01 PM
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | I think I wrote this somewhere but here it is again. If the same number of people that have had issues with full synthetic oils and their clutch slipping had issues with E3's no one would even consider using an E3. But for some reason oil is different? Just sayin'
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | MaddMAx2u - 2012-05-13 4:02 PM
I think I wrote this somewhere but here it is again. If the same number of people that have had issues with full synthetic oils and their clutch slipping had issues with E3's no one would even consider using an E3. But for some reason oil is different? Just sayin'
yeah just about everyone on here and other forum (goldwing) complain to no end about the E3 tires. but yet people keep buying them. and they arent cheap!! |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | So many factors go into the applications of oil so for anyone to make blanket statesments that one brand verses another is the only thing to use, doesn't see the bigger picture. I'm not surprised that one bike has an issue and another one doesn't. I've gone through a spectrum of practical applications, read too many threads on oil, mixed it all up in a bowl and have made a very educated decision. I will never again use a full-synthectic oil in a wet clutch application unless the manufacturer specifically says so. With that said, the majority of riders out there will never understand what I'm talking about, because they will never ever experience the conditions that have brought me to that conclusion. I will not say that full synthetic, AMSOIL or otherwise is bad for your bike, but under certain circumstances it may not be the best.
As far as the E3s, the majority of complainers are now car tire enthuiasts, so there you have it. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | I only know what I know.
Me think like Indian.
Bike run gud. Big Wampum. Run fast with many Braves.
Oil change with Vic oil at 500 - 5000 - 10,000 as say in manual. Bike run gud.
15,000 oil change - Amsoil 20-50 M/C oil.
Now bike not run so good. Ugh. Clutch slip. Running Bear now called Slippin' Bear.
Change oil back to Vic oil. Ride bike as Chief KevinX say. Bike now no slip. Running Bear back in War Party.
Me like-e Vic oil.
My bike-e like-e Vic oil too.
You bike like-e other oil? Gud 4 you. My ride no like other oil.
Nuff said~!!!!
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-05-13 5:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | MaddMAx2u - 2012-05-13 6:46 PM I only know what I know. Me think like Indian. Bike run gud. Big Wampum. Run fast with many Braves. Oil change with Vic oil at 500 - 5000 - 10,000 as say in manual. Bike run gud. 15,000 oil change - Amsoil 20-50 M/C oil. Now bike not run so good. Ugh. Clutch slip. Running Bear now called Slippin' Bear. Change oil back to Vic oil. Ride bike as Chief KevinX say. Bike now no slip. Running Bear back in War Party. Me like-e Vic oil. My bike-e like-e Vic oil too. You bike like-e other oil? Gud 4 you. My ride no like other oil. Nuff said~!!!! Well said, Running Bare... |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | varyder - 2012-05-13 4:47 PM
So many factors go into the applications of oil so for anyone to make blanket statesments that one brand verses another is the only thing to use, doesn't see the bigger picture. I'm not surprised that one bike has an issue and another one doesn't. I've gone through a spectrum of practical applications, read too many threads on oil, mixed it all up in a bowl and have made a very educated decision. I will never again use a full-synthectic oil in a wet clutch application unless the manufacturer specifically says so. With that said, the majority of riders out there will never understand what I'm talking about, because they will never ever experience the conditions that have brought me to that conclusion. I will not say that full synthetic, AMSOIL or otherwise is bad for your bike, but under certain circumstances it may not be the best.
As far as the E3s, the majority of complainers are now car tire enthuiasts, so there you have it.
i like the way you worded that... its like with my honda accord.. in the past few years there has been more and more transmissions that FAILED $$$$$$ so for the past few years people blamed the trany fluid for this as (its a honda its perfect) so then honda and acura people started using every transmission fluid under the sun! top of the line full synthetic to racing trany fluid, Then a few years ago Honda redesigned their trany fluid to be Full Synth and said it can be used in older accords but the older fluid can Not be used in the newer accords. but guess what. the transmissions Kept failing still !! but there was No pattern.. people installed transmission coolers, changed the fluid every 15k miles instead of every 100k and yet they failed and some didnt.. then what pissed people off even more was,. the people that spent the extra money on very short fluid change intervals and trany coolers were having their transmissions fail while a few that Never changed their fluid were still in operation at over 90,000 miles on the clock and still going... they were all accord V6 transmission (2003-07) only later did you read online that honda set aside funds to replace these transmission when they failed or pay for a large part of it. in the end for this application no matter what people did some people were just Unlucky.. personally i hate to think of it as Luck.. i wold rather have honda or someone explain it... but im not important enough for such a answer.. =)
its just interesting how two of the same vehicle running the same fluid can have different results... like with our amsoil/synth oil debate. one guy spend $$$$ on doing everything he can to prevent the failure and his fails while someone else who could care less has his run forever.. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 373
Lansing, MI |
ONE MORE TIME:
It's this simple---> Mine slipped with AmsOil. It did not with Victory or Rotella. PERIOD.
Why? I don't really know.
Best guess: I beat the hell out my bike. Someday maybe you will try to ride with me. When I leave you in my dust maybe you with understand what I mean when I say I ride it hard...
Good luck to you. I hope your clutch lives a nice long slip free life with whatever oil you use. 
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 178
LaGrange, GA | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 7:36 PM
varyder - 2012-05-13 4:47 PM
So many factors go into the applications of oil so for anyone to make blanket statesments that one brand verses another is the only thing to use, doesn't see the bigger picture. I'm not surprised that one bike has an issue and another one doesn't. I've gone through a spectrum of practical applications, read too many threads on oil, mixed it all up in a bowl and have made a very educated decision. I will never again use a full-synthectic oil in a wet clutch application unless the manufacturer specifically says so. With that said, the majority of riders out there will never understand what I'm talking about, because they will never ever experience the conditions that have brought me to that conclusion. I will not say that full synthetic, AMSOIL or otherwise is bad for your bike, but under certain circumstances it may not be the best.
As far as the E3s, the majority of complainers are now car tire enthuiasts, so there you have it.
i like the way you worded that... its like with my honda accord.. in the past few years there has been more and more transmissions that FAILED $$$$$$ so for the past few years people blamed the trany fluid for this as (its a honda its perfect) so then honda and acura people started using every transmission fluid under the sun! top of the line full synthetic to racing trany fluid, Then a few years ago Honda redesigned their trany fluid to be Full Synth and said it can be used in older accords but the older fluid can Not be used in the newer accords. but guess what. the transmissions Kept failing still !! but there was No pattern.. people installed transmission coolers, changed the fluid every 15k miles instead of every 100k and yet they failed and some didnt.. then what pissed people off even more was,. the people that spent the extra money on very short fluid change intervals and trany coolers were having their transmissions fail while a few that Never changed their fluid were still in operation at over 90,000 miles on the clock and still going... they were all accord V6 transmission (2003-07) only later did you read online that honda set aside funds to replace these transmission when they failed or pay for a large part of it. in the end for this application no matter what people did some people were just Unlucky.. personally i hate to think of it as Luck.. i wold rather have honda or someone explain it... but im not important enough for such a answer.. =)
its just interesting how two of the same vehicle running the same fluid can have different results... like with our amsoil/synth oil debate. one guy spend $$$$ on doing everything he can to prevent the failure and his fails while someone else who could care less has his run forever..
Take a step back and ask yourself - does it really matter if it's the bike or the oil if there's a reasonable solution? Nobody is saying amsoil sucks. If a bike has a clutch that's just barely not slipping with one oil, then it slips with another, but can still offer lots of working miles after switching back - why go on a tirade about it not being the oil's fault? Who gives a shit? So maybe I could put new clutch plates and springs in my bike to tighten it back up to a spec where it didn't slip with amsoil. It's a helluva lot easier and cheaper to not do that and run oil that costs less anyway. So maybe the clutch is on its way out, but if it holds for another few oil changes that's still a huge win.
Edited by BrandonM7 2012-05-13 9:04 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | BrandonM7 - 2012-05-13 9:02 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 7:36 PM
varyder - 2012-05-13 4:47 PM
So many factors go into the applications of oil so for anyone to make blanket statesments that one brand verses another is the only thing to use, doesn't see the bigger picture. I'm not surprised that one bike has an issue and another one doesn't. I've gone through a spectrum of practical applications, read too many threads on oil, mixed it all up in a bowl and have made a very educated decision. I will never again use a full-synthectic oil in a wet clutch application unless the manufacturer specifically says so. With that said, the majority of riders out there will never understand what I'm talking about, because they will never ever experience the conditions that have brought me to that conclusion. I will not say that full synthetic, AMSOIL or otherwise is bad for your bike, but under certain circumstances it may not be the best.
As far as the E3s, the majority of complainers are now car tire enthuiasts, so there you have it.
i like the way you worded that... its like with my honda accord.. in the past few years there has been more and more transmissions that FAILED $$$$$$ so for the past few years people blamed the trany fluid for this as (its a honda its perfect) so then honda and acura people started using every transmission fluid under the sun! top of the line full synthetic to racing trany fluid, Then a few years ago Honda redesigned their trany fluid to be Full Synth and said it can be used in older accords but the older fluid can Not be used in the newer accords. but guess what. the transmissions Kept failing still !! but there was No pattern.. people installed transmission coolers, changed the fluid every 15k miles instead of every 100k and yet they failed and some didnt.. then what pissed people off even more was,. the people that spent the extra money on very short fluid change intervals and trany coolers were having their transmissions fail while a few that Never changed their fluid were still in operation at over 90,000 miles on the clock and still going... they were all accord V6 transmission (2003-07) only later did you read online that honda set aside funds to replace these transmission when they failed or pay for a large part of it. in the end for this application no matter what people did some people were just Unlucky.. personally i hate to think of it as Luck.. i wold rather have honda or someone explain it... but im not important enough for such a answer.. =)
its just interesting how two of the same vehicle running the same fluid can have different results... like with our amsoil/synth oil debate. one guy spend $$$$ on doing everything he can to prevent the failure and his fails while someone else who could care less has his run forever..
Take a step back and ask yourself - does it really matter if it's the bike or the oil if there's a reasonable solution? Nobody is saying amsoil sucks. If a bike has a clutch that's just barely not slipping with one oil, then it slips with another, but can still offer lots of working miles after switching back - why go on a tirade about it not being the oil's fault? Who gives a shit? So maybe I could put new clutch plates and springs in my bike to tighten it back up to a spec where it didn't slip with amsoil. It's a helluva lot easier and cheaper to not do that and run oil that costs less anyway. So maybe the clutch is on its way out, but if it holds for another few oil changes that's still a huge win.
Im taking it you dont tour then.... or never broke down hundreds of miles away from home... i have on BOTH accounts.. this is why i have a victory now. my kaw left me stuck with a 3 week wait on parts and they had to be sent from japan they were not stored in the U.S. (at least not that part). you are right if you can switch to a oil and call it a "fix" then good. but it is REALLY fixed? or was it a band aid? would you want a band aid on a 4000 mile trip.. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 178
LaGrange, GA | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 10:21 PM
BrandonM7 - 2012-05-13 9:02 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-05-13 7:36 PM
varyder - 2012-05-13 4:47 PM
So many factors go into the applications of oil so for anyone to make blanket statesments that one brand verses another is the only thing to use, doesn't see the bigger picture. I'm not surprised that one bike has an issue and another one doesn't. I've gone through a spectrum of practical applications, read too many threads on oil, mixed it all up in a bowl and have made a very educated decision. I will never again use a full-synthectic oil in a wet clutch application unless the manufacturer specifically says so. With that said, the majority of riders out there will never understand what I'm talking about, because they will never ever experience the conditions that have brought me to that conclusion. I will not say that full synthetic, AMSOIL or otherwise is bad for your bike, but under certain circumstances it may not be the best.
As far as the E3s, the majority of complainers are now car tire enthuiasts, so there you have it.
i like the way you worded that... its like with my honda accord.. in the past few years there has been more and more transmissions that FAILED $$$$$$ so for the past few years people blamed the trany fluid for this as (its a honda its perfect) so then honda and acura people started using every transmission fluid under the sun! top of the line full synthetic to racing trany fluid, Then a few years ago Honda redesigned their trany fluid to be Full Synth and said it can be used in older accords but the older fluid can Not be used in the newer accords. but guess what. the transmissions Kept failing still !! but there was No pattern.. people installed transmission coolers, changed the fluid every 15k miles instead of every 100k and yet they failed and some didnt.. then what pissed people off even more was,. the people that spent the extra money on very short fluid change intervals and trany coolers were having their transmissions fail while a few that Never changed their fluid were still in operation at over 90,000 miles on the clock and still going... they were all accord V6 transmission (2003-07) only later did you read online that honda set aside funds to replace these transmission when they failed or pay for a large part of it. in the end for this application no matter what people did some people were just Unlucky.. personally i hate to think of it as Luck.. i wold rather have honda or someone explain it... but im not important enough for such a answer.. =)
its just interesting how two of the same vehicle running the same fluid can have different results... like with our amsoil/synth oil debate. one guy spend $$$$ on doing everything he can to prevent the failure and his fails while someone else who could care less has his run forever..
Take a step back and ask yourself - does it really matter if it's the bike or the oil if there's a reasonable solution? Nobody is saying amsoil sucks. If a bike has a clutch that's just barely not slipping with one oil, then it slips with another, but can still offer lots of working miles after switching back - why go on a tirade about it not being the oil's fault? Who gives a shit? So maybe I could put new clutch plates and springs in my bike to tighten it back up to a spec where it didn't slip with amsoil. It's a helluva lot easier and cheaper to not do that and run oil that costs less anyway. So maybe the clutch is on its way out, but if it holds for another few oil changes that's still a huge win.
Im taking it you dont tour then.... or never broke down hundreds of miles away from home... i have on BOTH accounts.. this is why i have a victory now. my kaw left me stuck with a 3 week wait on parts and they had to be sent from japan they were not stored in the U.S. (at least not that part). you are right if you can switch to a oil and call it a "fix" then good. but it is REALLY fixed? or was it a band aid? would you want a band aid on a 4000 mile trip..
Fair enough - I do have about 120k under my butt, but no long tours. I also understand how mechanical things work though, so I don't sweat the difference between bandaids and fixes. If I can get 40k miles out of a bandaid (my v6 accord tranny with new fluid and 2 bottles of trans medic after the first shudder) I'm cool with it. I also know that a slipping clutch will not leave me stranded in Timbuktu for 3 weeks. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 222
Barefoot Bay, FL United States | Using Amsiol 20-50. Last two oil changes, 5100+ miles using it. NO SLIPPAGE!!! Just rolled 30,500. So there!! '08 Vic Vis Premie "Chrome IS a color" like round IS a shape!! |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 222
Barefoot Bay, FL United States | Actually it's Amsoil. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 178
LaGrange, GA | witchbiker - 2012-05-14 8:27 AM
Using Amsiol 20-50. Last two oil changes, 5100+ miles using it. NO SLIPPAGE!!! Just rolled 30,500. So there!! '08 Vic Vis Premie "Chrome IS a color" like round IS a shape!!
That's something I've been kind of wondering, but didn't want to ask (since oil is very touchy here) - are most folks that run Amsoil still doing the 2500 mile change interval? That's pure curiosity asking, I'm not trying to lead into any kind of "gotcha" or anything like that. |
|
| |
Clutch Slipping YOUR all Wrong