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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States |
I subscribe to CNN email alerts and this just came across...
- The AAA's national gas price average has reached $4 a gallon for the first time in history.
I just found this depressing news. I mean I realize the price of gas is out of control. I also realize we still have some of the cheapest gas prices in the world. But I never thought I would live to see the day that I couldn't fill the tank on my bike with a $20.00. Not to mention $75.00 for my car.
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Montreal, QC Canada | The rich get richer........... | |
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Tourer
Posts: 320
Savannah, GA -Year round riding!! Yay! | I used to laugh at the little warning signs on the pumps about how some credit or debit cards have a $50, $75, 0r $100 limit, and the pumps will automatically shut off when they reach it. Last week, I was filling up the tank on our Yukon XL (the light came on... the last time I put gas in it was in March!). It had reached $100, which is apparently my credit card's max. And I only had about 7/8 of a tank!!! First time this has ever happened to me! When I left work yesterday, my fuel light was on, on my bike, so i stopped at the convenience store next to me. I paid $4.11/gallon for 87 octane!
What really hurt, was when I was riding down the road, about 10 miles down, the Kroger pumps were still $3.87/gallon, which would have been $3.84 with my Kroger shopping card! (Thank goodness it's only a 5 gallon tank. $0.27/gallon difference on a 30 gallon tank would have hurt a lot more!!!!) 
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | kenandpen - 2008-06-08 7:50 AM The rich get richer........... And the dumb keep getting dumber! That is the liberals that block legislation from passing to allow us to drill our own oil. We have plenty of oil and if we could just drill where we need to and build refineries we would be paying $1.50 a gallon and it would create great wealth for our country like it has for others. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 332
Dale, Indiana | Amen Spock!
Edited by Indiana RoadRunner 2008-06-08 11:52 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 238
SF Bay Area | ... make that triple digits to fill my GMC truck tank, even with 89 octane.
In my 'hood 89 octane is about $4.40 per. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | The Vision is my full time ride and I have a 22 mile commute each way to work. I'm getting about 43 mpg so even if/when gas gets to $5/gal it will only cost me $25/week to commute (one gal/day). I have a lot of friends at work asking about motorcycle/scooter options these days.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 34
Pensacola, FL | The rising gas prices are what made me decide to sell my Hayabusa to get a bike that I could carry my lunch box & brief case on to work, as well as have all the creature comforts for traveling ! I plan on riding my vision for every day transportation. So far, it has averaged 46.7 mpg on my commute to and from work !
Steve. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| I wouldn't doubt the average price around here is 4.50 a gallon with some stations charging almost $5/gal. Tim | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 110
| Sorry to rain on anybodies depression parade but My depression goes much deeper. How would you like to have an 06 kingpin an 06 hammer and an 08 vision sitting in the garage during these high gas prices because some "A-HOLE" pulls out of a convience store without stopping at the street only to knock me off of my hammer breaking my hand (with displacement) and leaving the scene of the accident...luckly the big guy in a tow truck was able to lift the bike off of me. bike is fixed but I will be out till October... | |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | Rob- Good point- Sorry for your accident, glad you weren't hurt any worse. I was in my cage with family two weeks ago Sunday and was the second on the scene to a motorcycle rider fatality. A girl on a cell phone pulled out in front of the motorcycle. I won't make any complaints about gas prices. Hope you can recover ASAP. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Sorry gang I should let this one go by but after reading the replies I simply cannot. Americans have been and continue to be DUPED by the media and politicians. We don't have an oil SHORTAGE, we have a refining shortage. We use 22 billion barrels a day and only have a refining capability of 17 billion. That means demand out paces supply and we get high prices. We need 2 things: first we need our politicians to force the REOPENING of refineries shut down over the past two decades. Secondly we need the cost of speculation increase from the current 7% to 50%. The Senate has been holdng hearings for months and doing NOTHING, we need to lobby our elected reps to get off their butts and do these two things ASAP. Finally prices will fall by mid to late summer so hang in there. Pretty bad when oil closes at $150 a barrel when OPEC price projected $55-$57 a barrel for this year, speculators suck.
Edited by Teach 2008-06-09 11:52 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 115
Victoria, BC | Canada can produce more gasoline than it needs (we have seven times more oil than Saudi Arabia), however refining it is still a bit of a problem for us.
As it stands today, the average price for gasoline in the USA is just over $4/usgal (1.05/liter).
In Victoria, B.C. we are paying $5.28/usgal ($1.398/liter).
Why? Because the multi-national oil companies know that we will pay it. Their profits will be thru the roof for this quarter (again), and until the consumer finds a way to boycott certain oil companies to create a gas war, it will keep rising.
Greed is never satisfied! | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 115
Victoria, BC | Forget the figures in the previous post. Just went to pick up my Wife from work and noticed that in last couple of hours gasoline went up to $1.46/liter. The radio said that some stations are even at $1.49/liter. That's crazy! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Supply and demand. When gas hit $2.50, people complained but they still bought their Range Rovers & Escalades. When it hit $3 everyone bitched but they still bought those gas guzzlers. I dont remember seeing sale people twisting anyones arm to buy these things. Now you have most of a nation driving SUV's, using more gas than before, where did you think prices were going to go?
I feel sorry for those that really need their trucks for work. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | By monitoring the instant mpg display and experimenting with throttle and gear selection, I have managed to squeeze out 37 mpg on my daily commute to work. All city streets no freeway riding. Not bad for a 106 ci machine. 35-36 mpg is a no brainer now. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 423
northwest florida | one thing to do is make sure your mutual fund has petro stocks. or buy petro stocks. I hate the pinch at the pump but I smile at my Imperial oil and Murphy oil stock. key note to remember with any stock. never fall in love with a stock. it will break your heart. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| All this whining about gas prices is tiring...... Wait till you fill your fuel oil barrel next winter. $4 x 250 gallons = $1000.
Instead whining what politicians should do and oil companies should do, ask what we as users should do.  What Americans walk and ride bicycles and commute with others. What the hell is this world coming too? We don't buy gas, it sits on barges off the coast to off load, prices go down. Yeah, Americans have to do something besides whine and we all know that ain't going to happen. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | BlueOx USA - 2008-06-10 8:51 AM All this whining about gas prices is tiring...... Wait till you fill your fuel oil barrel next winter. $4 x 250 gallons = $1000. Instead whining what politicians should do and oil companies should do, ask what we as users should do. What Americans walk and ride bicycles and commute with others. What the hell is this world coming too? We don't buy gas, it sits on barges off the coast to off load, prices go down. Yeah, Americans have to do something besides whine and we all know that ain't going to happen. What? And give up my wasteful lifestyle? I'd rather pay extremly high prices then to give up the way I live so those who take my money can build island with 10-star resorts and eat diamond studded chocolate.  | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Again I would encourage folks to look into matters for themselves as I see many have really been duped. How big ones vehicle, miles driven, etc... are NOT driving the price hikes. North American fuel consumption has been FLAT for at least the past 2 years and technically at least 4 years, the SUV argument is total fabrication. If you are one who BUYS into this argument please ask yourself why Europe and/or Britains prices arealso skyrocketting when a huge motor is a 2.2 four banger?
Before I end let me just say I never suggest WAITING for someone else (government or business) to do what needs done. "We the People" need to get on the stick and force our elected reps to do the honest work we pay them for. That means making the necessary change to refining capacity and increasing the cost of speculation to where it SHOULD have been for years.
Its not just oil folks. Egypt is having a shortage on wheat for the first time in modern history as a result of the "bump and dump" and gold prices have also gone through the roof. To give you some idea wheat has risen from 3.?? a bushel to over $28 in the same period oil has risen from $55 to $150, we need the brakes put on.
I'm done, but I'll leave you with a famous quote "with knowledge comes power". So don't simply BUY into the media BS, look into the facts so you are truly informed....... enjoy | |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | Teach is 100% on. I certainly can't fault those with the Oil asking the prices they're asking. I'd like to, but sheesh... if I had a consumable product that I could sell for $100 or $300 and in either case it would sell.... guess what... I'm selling it for $300.
Without turning this into a political conversation, because I think it really transcends that.. I'm not sure what we can do. We can hound the elected officials, but if it's not even on their agenda.... it's just noise.
Anyway... just venting... I have little to complain about. My commute is from the bedroom down the hall, to my office. Most everything else is within a couple miles of home. It's an extra shock to me cause I only go to a gas station, maybe once a month, so it's sticker shock from the previous month. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Sure, knowledge is power, and that is a good thing. It cannot be disputed as American's many are very wasteful Simple economics says when demand is up, supply stays the same, prices go up. When supply is greater, and demand is low, prices come down. Though it would not have the impact most believe it would have, not buying gas for one day would still have an effect. I do not believe it would make gas prices go down, but I don't believe they would rise for a while. It's hard to figure, but maybe Teach knows why the price of the barrel of oil has risen significantly over the last year or more, yet the gas price at the pump has not, but has increased, has not by the same precentage rate. Also, the regular, mid-grade, premium all stay within the same 10 to 20 cent range, which still perplexes me. I'm sure there is an explanation to this to that I probably forgotten. It almost tells me that even hounding our politicians would not changes this. I'm sure there is some big economic explanation for all of this, but the bottom line is that this is one commodity that will never be out of demand, and someone knows it. But as for me, let the prices go through the roof, sad as it may be on some, it will not keep me from doing the things I need to do. I'm not trying to stir the pot, but it is an interesting discussion that I'm sure some have insights that I don't. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 153
Frisco, TX | Miles - 2008-06-08 5:27 AM I subscribe to CNN email alerts and this just came across... - The AAA's national gas price average has reached $4 a gallon for the first time in history. I just found this depressing news. I mean I realize the price of gas is out of control. I also realize we still have some of the cheapest gas prices in the world. But I never thought I would live to see the day that I couldn't fill the tank on my bike with a $20.00. Not to mention $75.00 for my car. The worst thing you mentioned is that you get your news from CNN. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | A few facts...
1. U.S. consumes 38% more oil in 2006 than it did in 1970
2. U.S. pumps (non-import) only 53% as much oil in 2006 as compared to 1970
3. Guess which country the U.S. imports the most oil from today? Canada....Saudi 2nd, Mexico 3rd
Followed by a few opinions......
If we all rode Visions, and the U.S. was able to find that happy median between pumping more oil IN THIS COUNTRY without totally screwing up the environment, our houses were more energy efficient, and we invested 10% of what we spend on Dub-Ya's war on alternate energy technology and smart efficient mass transportation (like in Europe), we wouldn't need to import a drop of oil. Besides, everyone would be happier, riding their Visions every day instead of driving their Hummers, Escalades, etc. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I remember the '73 shortage. I had a friend in Vietnam, in the service. He said they had so much gas being delivered they were rt\unning out of room. We complain, the politico's say theyre looking into it, but nothing will be done. The devalued dollar isnt helping. With China and India comming online, it will only get worse. Cant understand why they arent planning for alternatives considering the price of oil? So much of our tax dollars have gone toward liberating Iraq, I cant understand why we cant be compensated with a couple of extra barrels?
Personally, I think the US is trying to use everyone elses up first. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 153
Frisco, TX | Teach - 2008-06-09 10:50 AM Sorry gang I should let this one go by but after reading the replies I simply cannot. Americans have been and continue to be DUPED by the media and politicians. We don't have an oil SHORTAGE, we have a refining shortage. We use 22 billion barrels a day and only have a refining capability of 17 billion. That means demand out paces supply and we get high prices. We need 2 things: first we need our politicians to force the REOPENING of refineries shut down over the past two decades. Secondly we need the cost of speculation increase from the current 7% to 50%. The Senate has been holdng hearings for months and doing NOTHING, we need to lobby our elected reps to get off their butts and do these two things ASAP. Finally prices will fall by mid to late summer so hang in there. Pretty bad when oil closes at $150 a barrel when OPEC price projected $55-$57 a barrel for this year, speculators suck. First, I don't disagree with you about what you're saying except that your numbers are way wrong. Here they are: - U.S. Petroleum Consumption: 20.6 million barrels/day
- U.S Crude Oil Production: 5.1 million barrels/day
- Texas (of course) produces the most oil of any state at just over 1 million barrels/day
- U.S. Crude Oil Imports: 10.1 million barrels/day
- U.S. Crude Oil Imports from OPEC: 5.5 million barrels/day
- Top U.S. Crude Oil Supplier: Canada @ 1.8 million barrels/day
- U.S. Petroleum Product Imports: 3.5 million barrels/day
- U.S. Petroleum Product Imports from OPEC: 733K barrels/day
- U.S. Net Petroleum Imports: 12.39 million barrels/day
- U.S. Total Petroleum Exports: 1.3 million barrels/day
- Dependence on Net Petroleum Imports: 58.2%
- Number of U.S. Operable Petroleum Refineries: 149
- U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve: 689 million barrels
- Total World Oil Production: 82.5 million barrels/day
- Total World Oil Consumption: 83.6 million barrels/day
14 and 15 tell part of the story. What we need to do is drill for more oil. We have it and the left wing nutball environmentalist wackos and a lazy congress won't let us. If you think we should drill, go sign Newt's petition here: http://www.americansolutions.com. We have lots of oil. We have lots of natural gas. We have even more coal. Wind power, solar and alternative fuels are great but we need to build nuclear power plants, more refineries, and recover more of our own oil and we can cut our dependence on foreign oil to 0% if we wanted to do so. If we don't do it, we will end up going to war for it because things will get so bad that the American people will demand it even if we have to destroy other nations to get it. To prevent that inevitability, we simply need to take care of our own and drill for the oil that's beneath our feet. Any other alternative is wasting time and harming our country. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 153
Frisco, TX | Update: See this Fox News article: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365627,00.html. This is about opening up discussion in congress about offshore drilling. Still, the left wing nutball environmentalist wacko socialists are against it saying: “It would take anywhere from seven to 10 years to bring those resources to shore — to have any measurable impact on supply,” Yeah, and if they had started 10, 15, or 20 years ago, we wouldn't be in this problem. Idiots... | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | Sorry, but giving a blank ticket to the oil companies is not the solution either. I agree, there needs to be more oil produced internally in this country, but it is all a matter of the all mighty dollar to the oil companies. Why do you think it is that Canada provides us with the most imported oil? IT'S CHEAPER (higher profit levels for the oil companies). Why do you think the oil companies import oil that someone else pumps, instead of drilling new wells in this country? IT'S EASIER. Why do you think that the U.S ships crude oil to Canada to refine for us, then ship it back to the U.S.? IT'S CHEAPER and EASIER. It's only those wells and refineries that are "easy" are the ones being utilized. Meanwhile Brazilians are drilling at the bottom of multi-thousand feet of ocean to extract oil. The U.S. is too lazy to do this.
Our best bet is to reduce consumption in the U.S. - we are oil gluttons compared to other countries! Find a way to get oil companies to extract and use more of "our" oil, instead of importing it. That would be the trickier thing to pull off.
Also, why is it when the oil "futures" spike like they did last week, do you see an immediate increase at the pump? That is what needs to be investigated. The oil company mergers in the past decade have reduced true competition to zero, which in my opinion has greatly driven up the prices we pay at the pump. It takes weeks or months for oil futures prices to truly affect the price at the pump. Someone is making a killing!! Maybe the oil monopolies need to be dissolved, and then maybe fuel prices will stabilize a bit.
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Cruiser
Posts: 153
Frisco, TX | space_cwboy - 2008-06-11 9:29 AM Sorry, but giving a blank ticket to the oil companies is not the solution either. I agree, there needs to be more oil produced internally in this country, but it is all a matter of the all mighty dollar to the oil companies. Why do you think it is that Canada provides us with the most imported oil? IT'S CHEAPER (higher profit levels for the oil companies). Why do you think the oil companies import oil that someone else pumps, instead of drilling new wells in this country? IT'S EASIER. Why do you think that the U.S ships crude oil to Canada to refine for us, then ship it back to the U.S.? IT'S CHEAPER and EASIER. It's only those wells and refineries that are "easy" are the ones being utilized. Meanwhile Brazilians are drilling at the bottom of multi-thousand feet of ocean to extract oil. The U.S. is too lazy to do this. Our best bet is to reduce consumption in the U.S. - we are oil gluttons compared to other countries! Find a way to get oil companies to extract and use more of "our" oil, instead of importing it. That would be the trickier thing to pull off. Also, why is it when the oil "futures" spike like they did last week, do you see an immediate increase at the pump? That is what needs to be investigated. The oil company mergers in the past decade have reduced true competition to zero, which in my opinion has greatly driven up the prices we pay at the pump. It takes weeks or months for oil futures prices to truly affect the price at the pump. Someone is making a killing!! Maybe the oil monopolies need to be dissolved, and then maybe fuel prices will stabilize a bit. Wow. You must get your news from CNN too. Oil is a commodity put on the open market. Oil companies don't dictate the price of oil. Like all commodities, oil is bought on the open market to the highest bidder. If the supply dimishes while the demand is high, the price goes up. It's that simple. It is true that the oil companies are benefiting from the high prices, but they would benefit more if they could produce more oil and build more refineries but they can't. I don't believe we should be giving $18 billion in subsidies to the oil companies but I also don't blame the oil companies for the current problem. It's naive to do so. For many years, oil companies were losing money (hence the subsidies) but they continued to explore and drill. Now, they've been banned from drilling in our own country since 1981. That's the problem. It's not the "greedy" oil companies like the liberals like to say. Liberals want us to live in communes without modern conveniences under their control because they believe they know more about how we should live our lives than we do. Liberals are ultimately the problem. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Well said Fergy!!! | |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I think the biggest problem are EXTREMISTS.. It's not that ALL liberals are a problem, just the misinformed ones. I'm as much an environmentalist as the next guy, but I also understand the I and a HUMAN am part of the ecology.
I get a kick out of the arguments for NOT drillling in Alaska. Impact on the environement.... Sorry, but unless you lived there, and I have, that is such a non-issue. There are places in Alaska (and northern Canada) where they could put entire Oil fields and they'd still need a GPS to find them as they'd be such a small, tiny, dot in a vast vast wasteland where there aren't anything but micro-organisms that live.
Do they really think an Oil well has more inpact than the HUGE diamond strip mining by Debeers and others. Watch Ice Road Truckers, take note of the surrounding, take note of the distances, and then realize that that show is in the POPULATED and DEVELOPED areas up north... LOL...
I also find the whole anti-nuclear thing quite a joke too. While other countries are scrambling to build Nuclear Power Plants, we're shutting them down.
I will admit we are as a country getting on the Solar, Wind and even Thermal, and bio-diesel bandwagons.... and it's nice to see.. Only about 15 years!!!! behind the rest of the developed world but at least we're trying... NOT!!!!
But then again... our wired and wireless phone technology is only about 8 years behind the rest of the world, so I guess things are moving along. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Now that we are all in agreement, let's go out and ride... | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 153
Frisco, TX | Another update: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365627,00.html. The dems just shot down the amendment to open up offshore drilling saying "we can't drill our way out of this problem." The dems simply want to break our economy because it makes it easier for their candidate to win in November and in the end it makes it easier to gain control over the people. Granted, Republicans didn't do what they needed to do 10 years ago and I blame them for that but at least we now see the current situation for what it is: our reliance on imported oil is a national security crisis. We have the oil but our own people are preventing us from drilling for it and it's shameful. We deserve whatever bad things happen to us because we continue to let Pelosi and others like her have say over us and what's best for us. That's what's so depressing; not the price of oil. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Fergy, thanks for catching the B that should have been an M. However I would point out it still doesn't change a thing in the larger picture. It boils down to lack of refining capability, not lack of supply. OPEC's pricing for oil was $55-$57 projection for this year. Its closing well over $100 every day, that is SPECULATION, scam called bump and dump. Last weeks closing of $150 a barrel was not based on market demands, it was based on one person saying oil could be as high as $200 by summers end and speculators jumping all over it.
Yes Texas is the largest "producer" of oil within the USA, but they aren't the only state capable of producing those numbers of barrels each day. PA can meet and/or exceed those numbers but the majority of wells are capped. Many have opened in recent months with the high price oil is bringing. I'll be very surprised if PA doesn't have the highest number of NEW millionaires this fiscal year.
Finally, you can blame liberals, eco-nuts, etc for fighting new drilling, but the bottom line is we don't need to drill in the places they are asking to drill, in fact we don't need to drill at all. What we need to do is start utilizing the resources we already have capped, the refineries we already have built, etc.... Its always big business pushing for new when they have the old shut down, so you have to ask why? My guess (and this is just a guess) is they see the writing on the wall and the tax dollars going somplace other than in their pockets. Lets face it they have used OUR money to their personal and corporate gain. They are trying to get in one last major investment on the taxpayers part before the plug gets pulled. To this ends they have made dozens of propaganda vids that they have on YouTube. Its a scam. Oh and for the record I am neither an eco-nut nor liberal by any stretch, just a hard working American sick and tired of my tax dollars going into some corporate pocket and then paying again for the product. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Damn all these companies that make "too" much money, that's not American. Let's make sure the politicians make them give it back to us. Let's make sure the government takes care of us. What about Walmart, Microsoft, Dell, Apple,.......and a lot of others, what about the Japan, Korea, & China companies. They are all making alot of money off of us, the hard working American, right! That is right, and that is the way it should be! They the companies (people-workers) provide products or a service, that we want, you buy it if you want or need it, this country was built on that principle. Damn those farmers, food prices are out of line, corn is ~$7.50/bu., how can that be! Just a few years ago, it was ~$2.50 - $3.00/ per bu. They are making too much money.........! You want cheap gas, don't drive so much. You want cheap corn flakes, don't eat breakfast. Supply and Demand. When I was in college in 1968, gas was ~$.30/gallon, in the mid-west, I know because I worked part time in a gas station to make ends meet when I was going to school. After that, I went to work and worked hard for 40 years, achieving better wages every year, that is what we are suppose to do, right? Today, gas is ~$4.00/gallon, there is no magic here, % wise, in relation to the price of gas, I'm better off now than in 1969 when I got my first real job. Anyone who thinks differently, you have not lived it yet. Stop being depressed, it is not that bad, we (Vison-Riders) are having the time of our lives right now by what I read here, and I'm not looking through rose colored glases. Get un-depressed, ride your Vision. Move on! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Both parties are so busy butting heads with each other they forgot who they are really working for. Its not about whats good for the people, but whats good for their party. Its the middle class paying for it all. If your rich theres no problem. If your poor the government has a program. Its our fault for getting up every day and trying to improve our standard of living, and the government knows it. They have us over a barrel, they know we will keep paying to keep what we worked so hard for. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | While we are on the subject.... http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/19842304.html | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 64
Warren, Vermont | I am amazed by the amount of wishful thinking and bad information contained here. I'm one of those left-wing wackos you guys seem to blame for common sense...
1) Nuclear energy is not the answer - it is way too expensive, there is no solution to the waste issue and no new nukes have been built for decades because of these issues - see:http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/06/02/nuclear_power_price/index.html
2) It is not ALL about us. Yes, we consume well over our share of fossil fuels and that is a real problem, however, the real pressure on oil is developing countries such as China and India where improving economies (all that stuff in Walmart) are driving up wealth, making autos and a better standard of living possible and therefore increasing demand for oil. Anyone that thinks that the war in Iraq is ultimately not about oil is smoking some good ganja.
3) Drilling is not the answer - not because there isn't some oil there and not because of environmental protection (although I would make that case, too) but because it is hardly worth the effort for the small amount of oil that is possibly there. That is literally a drop in the bucket.
4) We are well past "peak oil" in the USA - that means we have pumped out more than 1/2 of the oil we have and the rest is harder to get and more expensive. So if we want oil, then we have to deal with the MidEast, Venezuela and other foreign source.
5) Conservation and efficiency are the low-hanging fruit. Look at the trends towards smaller more efficient cars now that gas is priced higher. The waste will buy us a lot of time if we turn our efforts towards conservation and efficiency.
6) Prices are not likely to come down, ever.
Hippo | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 297
VA | Hippo, I would have to disagree on at least one point of yours. Several studies have shown, and no I don't have them at hand to link to or I would, that Pennsylvania has one of the largest oil reserves in the U.S., possibly even equalling accessible known reserves in Alaska. However, the problem is there are all these people in the way of it. As for Alaska, the problem is that it would cost too much to setup not only the wells, but also the pipelines to get it back to the refineries.
I agree that prices will likely never come down, at least not to what they were even a few years ago, but I also think that politicians are tryign to use the oil "crisis" to their advantage, and certainly the private market is trying to make as much money off of it as they can, because that's what they do. I won't even pretend to have the answer because the truth is if the answer were easy, someone would have done it by now. I will say this though, that because politicians are always wanting to be the ones in the greatest position of power, whoever is in position of least power is always going to oppose what the ruling party wants because it will weaken them even more. In this case, the dems are not wanting to solve the oil problem while republicans are in office. At least that's how I see it. Either way, my Vision gets the best gas mileage of any vehicle I own, so I'm just going to keep riding that. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | Hippo -
While I'm in agreement with the majority of your post, I think you are a little off base with regard to the "China/India" info. If you look at how much those countries consume, it's a drop in the bucket compared to US consumption. I am in 100% agreement about the "conservation and efficiency" part of your post. If we could get those incredibly wasteful large SUVs off the road, that we see only one person inside, and more folks into more efficient vehicles, we would SAVE more than China and India consume!
Latest meaning for "SUV"....Suddenly Undesireable Vehicles!!
Most of us realize that we on this forum are the "good guys" (a point brought up by divesharc above), enjoying our miles ridden while simultaneously doing our part for "conservation and efficiency". Ride when you can, leave the less efficient vehicle sit in your driveway/garage as much as you can, and ENJOY!!!
I for one would welcome a new generation Vision that runs on something other than fossil fuels. Assuming it would have similar power and comfort, I'd jump to that in a heartbeat. Same goes for a 4 wheeled vehicle that doesn't consume any fossil fuel. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | Hippo, I too agree with your sentiment, but check some of your information while others have said.
While the US hasn't built any new plants in decades, and in fact is decommissioning them, other countries are embracing nuclear power, but.. BIG BUT, it IS the most capital intensive of power sources.
That's just one example, again.. the sentiments is there. We need to do something other than try and find "quick fixes." There are no "fixes" there are just solutions. I think doing a little bit in ALL areas of power is probably the best solution. Use wind when that works, use oil that is available and cheaper, use coal that is available and cheaper, use nuclear when that is a good option, maybe in places like Alaska, and in remote parts of the US where the cost of the plant balances with the cost is would be over time to transport fuel to the same location. Common sense really.
There's a pretty decent sized refinery right down the street from me. http://www.tsocorp.com/tsocorp/ProductsandServices/Refining/Anacort...
Note that they certainly brag about all their numbers like being able to process 115,000 barrells of crude per day... but note they don't tell you where the gas goes... We do have Tesoro stations, but I do not believe the gas comes from this refinery. I have been told this refinery EXPORTS it's product outside the USA. I found that interesting, although I can't confirm it at this point.
As others have said... this conversation is somewhat preaching to the choir. We own Victory motorcycles because we think a little different. We have common sense (at least sometimes). We seem to all be doing our part, and maybe that's all we can do.... and that's not depressing at all.
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Doesnt matter what we think or how we feel, the people in power are calling the shots. We do have an allie over there though. Saudi Arabia IS concerned that higher prices will affect demand, and has decided to increase their exports. Refining is still an issue. | |
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This is just so depressing
