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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 30
Warrenton, VA | My Dyno Numbers
I have a 2009 Vision and yesterday it was done at Motor-Vation in Mechanicsburg, PA at their open house. Kyle from KMC Powersports tuned my bike. Below are the items responsible for contributing to the overall bottom line of HP 110.50/ Torque 114.70
LLoydz HOH VM1 DR Cams
Lloydz fuel controller
LLoydz Vision Air Intake Filter (VIF)
LLoydz Adjustable Air Intake System
CFR exhaust
K&N Air Filter
I had everything on my bike for the last seven months with the exception of the VIF and the adjustable air intake, that was done before they put my bike on the dyno. I saw a difference with the cams installed but nothing like after it was tuned. I had a smile on my face from ear to ear for the 2.5 hour ride home. I will say that the adjustable Air Intake System gives me my kick at my normal RPM range from 2100-3100.
I also took the opportunity to ride two models that I was curious about: The Judge and the Highball. Let's just say the Judge was a complete disappointment for me. I did not like the riding position, exhaust note was non existent and I ended up scraping the pegs quite a bit. The Highball on the other hand was a complete blast to ride. Great acceleration, handling and good exhaust note. If my wife would allow me to break the rule of only having one bike at a time, I would have a highball in my garage. Part of the appeal of the Highball is that it is completely different from my Vision.
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Yes sir, cams and a tune work wonders on these engines............ |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
Roseburg, OR | Wow. I've got a 2009 Vision that I had the Lloydz cam and Commander V put in and the Dyno only showed 99HP with 105 torque. Very disappointing. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | As always, there's some dispairity with the head castings. small amount of port flow difference can make a difference in the HP numbers, Mine made 115.5 HP and 117.2 Tq with the same setup except a PC V on the Lloyds dyno in the cool of the night under the Daytona shade tree, next day at Wyotec it made 113.9 HP and 115.9 tq in the heat of the day. Those CFR's sure sound good don't they ?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | As always, there's some dispairity with the head castings. small amount of port flow difference can make a difference in the HP numbers, Mine made 115.5 HP and 117.2 Tq with the same setup except a PC V on the Lloyds dyno in the cool of the night under the Daytona shade tree, next day at Wyotec it made 113.9 HP and 115.9 tq in the heat of the day. Those CFR's sure sound good don't they ?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I put the new LLoydz air filter on and think I lost some power. I had Lloydz old style foam filter on before.
I don't think the copy cat K&N ( its not really a k&n ) filter flows more air the a stock filter to be honest with you. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 5
| DrJohn2 - 2012-06-18 10:47 AM
Wow. I've got a 2009 Vision that I had the Lloydz cam and Commander V put in and the Dyno only showed 99HP with 105 torque. Very disappointing. I just had KMC install a Power Commander V and the drop in air filter down at the SEVR in my 09 Vision and my numbers are 96 hp and 111 torque. This is with S1L1 exhaust and stock cams. Not too bad.
Edited by visionaire 2012-06-19 5:28 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | I had Lloydz do mine. I came out with 113hp and 109 Torque
Edited by adirondacks 2012-06-19 6:16 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | All good numbers: Way up on cammed Harley 103 or 110 engines......... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Freedom 106 engines have pretty damn good head flows stock....... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
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XRsteve - 2012-06-19 10:01 PM All good numbers: Way up on cammed Harley 103 or 110 engines......... I have a friend who just bought a 2012 Ultra and had it cammed. Dealer told him he would make 110hp. I didn't want to burst his bubble so I didn't say anything. He swears I must have cammed mine as I have no trouble walking away from him.
Edited by kris1956 2012-06-20 6:16 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I know Harleys very well and their HP capabilities: A dealer cammed ( screamin eagle & warranty friendly ) and flashed 103 will make around 80 RWHP and a 110 with the same mods about 90 RWHP.........Like every thing else you can build giant HP engines but they won't have a warranty.........
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | There's also a lot more to performance than just peak TQ and HP numbers. You can have two bikes with the same peak numbers, but one will be faster, or even one with a little lower number than the other, but the one with the lower peak numbers is faster. Why? Because it's the torque curve that determines performance, not the peak numbers. The Harleys generally have a pretty narrow range where the high numbers apply, compared to a Victory. A Kawasaki ZX14R has a torque band double that of a Victory, even though the Victory may have a higher peak torque number, you know which one will win that contest. The fat part of the cammed Harley's powerband is usually about 1000 RPM narrower than that of a cammed Victory 106. It's all about torque and gearing. The torque produced by the motor is multiplied by the gearing and applied to the rear wheel to propel the machine forward. The higher the average amount of torque in each gear, the harder, and longer, the acceleration in each gear. A wider torque band creates a higher average applied torque, which translates to harder acceleration relatively speaking. Horsepower is nothing more than torque mathematically multiplied by the engine RPM then divided by 5252. An engine that can produce high torque at a high RPM produces high horsepower. What's accelerating a 105 HP @ 5500 RPM bike when the run starts at 2000 RPM, where the motor is making only 38 HP? It accelerates at about the same rate from 2000 RPM to 5500 RPM, starting with just 38 HP. It's the 100 FT/Lbs of torque that is present all the way through the range. Why does a Kawasaki ZX14R run 9.50s @ 150 MPH? It's lighter and it has a torque curve that actually parallels a cammed Victory's pretty close up to 6000 RPM, but continues on for another 5000 RPM. The ability of the engine to turn 11,000 RPM means Kawasaki can use double the torque multiplication (gearing ratio) of the Victory, doubling the applied torque to the rear wheel. The 190HP Kawasaki isn't producing 190 HP when you whack the throttle open at 3000 RPM and it wheelies away. It's producing about 50HP at that speed. It's the torque, and the width of the torque curve, multiplied by gearing, that causes acceleration.
A cammed 106 Victory has a 800 to 1000 RPM wider torque curve than a cammed 103 or 110 Harley. Even if the peak numbers are similar, the Victory will be faster. The ZX14R has a peak torque of around 112 Ft/Lbs, but it carries that at twice the RPM of the Harley or Victory and uses a lot steeper gearing to multiply the torque, so it's way faster than either the Harley or the Victory. It also cruises at 4000 RPM instead of 2600 RPM.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Very well said, most people don't even know what 5252 rpm is in relation to HP & Tq........... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Thanks Steve. After generations of the car and bike companies (and magazine writers, who routinely make mistakes in their articles when reporting Ft/Lbs and Lbs/FT, dumbasses don't know the difference), promoting horsepower numbers as a selling point, most folks today don't seem to know how it all really works. It's understandable. Lot's of misinformation out there.
The folks who do know how it works will tell you that Horsepower Sells, but Torque Wins races.
Or, as my Daddy used to say, "Lightning does the work, Thunder is just the noise after the work has been done".
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 323
Troy, NY | This is why I love this forum!!!!!! Great information and honesty! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Thanks for great explanation Ronnie !!!
I've heard it explained as.....
Horsepower is fast you can get to the wall. Torque is how far you can move the wall. |
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My Dyno Numbers