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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | I know it's here but I'm being lazy, and my search didn't get me what I wanted. I recently had my 15,000 mile oil change. And my wrench put Amsoil 20-50 into my ride. I was ok with that. Until.......600 miles later and I started getting clutch slippage when I really accelerated hard or doing a full throttle roll on in 5th or 6th gear.
So my question is this. Other than Ma Vic's oil, what semi-syn or dino oil are you happy with in your Vision??
THANKS~! I want to change out the Amsoil ASAP as so may have had issues like this.
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Cruiser
Posts: 101
| Never had a problem with amsoil. Might want to clean the clutch the plates up
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Mad - I believe Rotella T5 (the Silver Jug) is a viable and cheap alternative. I'm going to check it out, never used it, but Golfer from theVMC puts it on his pancakes without any problems. It is a semi-blend also. I've lost the taste for the full synthetic blends and have gone back to MaVic syrup and it feels fine again. I didn't notice a slippage for around 100,000 miles using full-syn and believed it was good, until about 8,000 miles ago. I felt slipping in the same range as you did around 105,000 miles and figured the clutch was going. I switched back to MaVic on a hunch, and it tightened back up. So to save my clutch and keep it a little longer, I'm staying with the semi-blend, giving the T5 a chance on the next oil change.
Edited by varyder 2012-05-06 5:44 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | weird the amsoil didNt slip your clutch until 600 mile later????? thats kind of interesting.. Im curious to see down the road if there will start being posts of clutch replacements.. kawasaki had this issue. but with them (took years later for people to figure it out) it was weak clutch springs in their vulcan 1500 classic. the "fix" for them was strong clutch springs and all was well again. No matter what oil motorcycle oil they used. for those that Dont have clutch slippage with amsoil, i think this is a interesting proving ground for the difference between brand A vs amsoil in the way of anti friction/anti-wear. i know this does Not help you but i have used amsoil MC oil in all my motorcycles and Atvs.
now on a side note. i noticed you listed you were using amsoil 20w50 but you didnt say which version of amsoil 20w50. they make more than one in that weight. are you sure "he" put in the motorcycle oil? i noticed they make racing oil in that weight along with afew others |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | One other thing guys, I have read here that you need a new washer when you change the oil. Is that a Ma Vic Specific product or can it be bought anywhere? THANKS! |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | you should change your washer. when i had my 08 i used the same washer for 3 oil changes. one thing I AM going to do is, when its time to change my oil again. im just going to take the washer to my local napa autoparts dealers and have them match it up. i bet you it will be Many times cheaper than my Vic dealer. plus 10 times closer for me to get too.. |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Interesting. I've also heard of other makes having clutch slippage with the Amsoil, but the weight recommended by Amsoil for our motors is 10-40. I think we should do a survey of how many people used which type of amsoil and got clutch slippage over a period of time. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | I'm looking at Castrol 20W40 Actevo X-tra 4T Motorcycle Oil as it seems to be a match for the Vic Oil specs. DOes anyone have any experience using this oil?
I want to change out the oil today if possible and no Vic dealer is open. Plus, I have having to drve for an hour just to get oil for my ride. Thanks again to all.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| I use Rotella T6 in my Vision and Rotella dino oil in my HD. I've never had a problem.
Edited by kris1956 2012-05-06 11:30 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | What the Numbers Mean
The "W" stands for winter, and the number before the W represents the oil's viscosity at zero degrees F. The number after the W represents the oil's viscosity at 212 degrees F, which is the upper temperature range of a typical engine.
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Cruiser
Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md | My first Amsoil adventure was the original 20/50 that they recommended at the time and I had clutch slippage with it. As soon as I drained it and returned to Vic oil, the slippage cleared up. In a 2nd experiment, I tried the Castrol ACT-Evo and it worked just fine. I happened to be in the shop later, talking with the head wrench, and he told me his shop was carrying and even recommending Amsoil now - but, the 10-40 only. I also spoke with Amsoil via email and they said the Vic should use the 10/40 and should have no clutch issues. I switched to it and they were both right - no more clutch slipping. I'm on the end of my 2nd run with the Amsoil 10/40 and intend to stay with it. Having had real slippage, I know it can happen, but I also know with the same bike and parts (08 Vision TP), I don't get slippage with the Amsoil 10/40 or the Castrol ACT-Evo. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Thanks to all for the efforts to assist. I have decided to be patient and drive for an hour to the dealer on Wednesday and revert back to Vic Oil. This seems to be the best way to resolve my issue. I will just have to be a cager for the next few days. ARGHHHHHHHHHH!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i noticed something. the 20w50 is recommended for HD along with others... here is what i was wondering... i know HD their engine oil is not shared with their trany oil, is the other bikes that amsoil recommends 20w50 the same way? and the ones that do share the same engine oil what type of clutchs are they using? just makes you wonder... i saw a ducati last year that had a DRY clutch. so its engine oil had no effect on slippage... |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | Wow 52000 miles never had a slipage and pull a camper |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Ok, I think I got it so let me get this straight. Your wrench put in Amsoil 20w-50. This makes your oil so slippery that the bike goes faster so you get closer to 18-wheelers. As you get closer to 18-wheelers and feel the buffeting wind from the trailer the bike wobbles a bit so you grip the handlebar tighter, which causes more wobble and then the clutch starts to slip. Sounds like you need to relax your grip when coming up on 18-wheelers and pass them more quickly causing less clutch slippage. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Baadawg~ Yes, that's what I was trying to communicate all along. I hate the buffeting so the Amsoil has to go. Plus, Amsoil seems to make my Avon Tires slippery and unavble to carry a large load. So I'm also thinking of going back to E3's!! LOL LOL LOL LOL |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Arkainzeye - 2012-05-07 7:55 AM i noticed something. the 20w50 is recommended for HD along with others... here is what i was wondering... i know HD their engine oil is not shared with their trany oil, is the other bikes that amsoil recommends 20w50 the same way? and the ones that do share the same engine oil what type of clutchs are they using? just makes you wonder... i saw a ducati last year that had a DRY clutch. so its engine oil had no effect on slippage... So you know all harleys come with synthic in all there motors tranmishion and primarys. Yes the clutch is in the primary. By the way if you look at custom bike with open primaries there all dry clutches |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I do a lot of in town riding. In my 7.5 mile ride to work I might stop and start a dozen times. I use the Ride like a Pro friction zone technique to negotiate many of the turns. I admit that I am hard on a clutches and brakes.
From 7500 to 12500 miles I ran Amoil 20-50. The friction zone changed so much that at 12,000 miles I thought I would need a new clutch pack soon..... I went back to Mother Vic's oil at 12,500 and now after reaching 30,000 miles most of the symptoms of the slippage "howling or barking sound" rarly ever occur.
Everyone can make up there own minds but for me I will run Victory oil.
Ride Safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | radioteacher - 2012-05-07 7:12 PM I do a lot of in town riding. In my 7.5 mile ride to work I might stop and start a dozen times. I use the Ride like a Pro friction zone technique to negotiate many of the turns. I admit that I am hard on a clutches and brakes. From 7500 to 12500 miles I ran Amoil 20-50. The friction zone changed so much that at 12,000 miles I thought I would need a new clutch pack soon..... I went back to Mother Vic's oil at 12,500 and now after reaching 30,000 miles most of the symptoms of the slippage "howling or barking sound" rarly ever occur. Everyone can make up there own minds but for me I will run Victory oil. Ride Safe ...but RT, don't you know hundred of thousands of other riders do exactly the same thing as you and NEVER have a problem...it must be you, or there is something wrong with your bike. It would never be the lubricant in any circumstance. By the way, I have a bridge for sale, if you're interested. It will fit nicely over the Rio Grande...cheap too... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | its probably the oil.. they made a special batch. never mind the building size containers full of oil that everyone else and their motorcycle have used with no issues. im sure amsoil made a "special" batch just for peoples clutches to slip.. it would never ever be user error or weak clutch springs of god forbid a clutch with 6 digit figure number of mileage on it.. it has to be the special batch made just to mess with people... cause 98+% of every other bike on every other forum (do a search) dont have this problem using the Same oil ...
Like someone else and myself pointed out. Years ago there was a model of kawasaki that all the sudden started having the clutch slipping. then as more people bought this bike more people started posting the same thing! it went from people blaming the oil, to blaming their riding style, the dealers and kawasaki denied it was their problem! then after a few years of this same constant problem, someone figured out a "fix"... it was the clutch springs all the time. and it really got bad once they hit a certain mileage.. But kaw denied it.... when people replaced the springs with stronger ones (withOut replacing the clutches at all) the problem was gone.... No matter what oil......
i look at it like this... if amsoil (or any brand) makes or has been making the same formula of oil for Years and has been using it in just about every make and model of motorcycle for Year and they KEEP selling it still, then you see more and more bike shops started to stock this oil as well.. now if this oil Causes clutches to slip or go bad do you think they would have such growth ? it would never be a Victory issue... like my 08 vision gear indictor saying im in a wrong gear, volume button that changed the tuning of the radio on the hand controls, dash board the had a light burn out (and needed completely replaced), left emblem that burnt out etc with the exception of the dashboard everything else was known issues alot of people complained about! did everyone? nope... does that mean it still wasnt a victory issue? my point.. whos to say every clutch and every clutch spring is 100% the same in every bike. hell we have people on here that needed their transmission rebuilt due to either a defect in parts etc. was it their oil that cause failure of the transmission? or is it more believeable to think it was a defective part or assembled not to standards .. what if they were using victory oil when their transmission needed repaired? how about the early model victorys that used vic oil and had serious trany issues! what does that mean?
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-07 9:39 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Chris is correct if you are going to use Ams Oil you need to go with the 10-40 not the 20-50. I will tell you that I used the 20-50 once and had some clutch slippage and then switched to the 10-40 and it was fine. I also used the Shell Rotella oil for a few times but I have gone back to Victory oil and it is the best. The bike runs and shifts better with Victory oil. My wrench as seen lots of issues on Victory bikes using non Victory oil and several other Victory wrenches from around the country have told me the same thing. It is just not worth taking the chance. If you have an engine issue the first question Victory wants the tech to validate is who's oil is being used. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | take this for whatever its worth. Victory's smallest lightest bike (or one of them) 8ball. 638lbs and comes with a single seat....
the vision (2012) specs at 869lbs and is made to ride 2up and carry alot more luggage/storage items.
so the vision weights 231lbs More and then add another passenger then add the items you plan on carrying in those 3 compartments. I dont know what your passenger or your "items" weigh but do the math. then add that to the extra weight over the 8ball.... for me the difference in weight is around a 1/4 ton Extra weight with the extra seat "passenger" and "items"
now go to a or the website to look up victory parts online.. the 2012 vision has the SAME clutch components as the lighter 8Ball.... so my vision has the same clutch as a single seated cruiser? does it mean anything? I dont know.. but when i ride 2 up on a trip i have that same clutch components doing the load of a Full Touring bike with a extra 500lbs+ (1/4 Ton) in weight.. imagine the guys that ride two up and trailer....
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-05-07 10:12 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Spock - 2012-05-07 9:52 PM
Chris is correct if you are going to use Ams Oil you need to go with the 10-40 not the 20-50. I will tell you that I used the 20-50 once and had some clutch slippage and then switched to the 10-40 and it was fine. I also used the Shell Rotella oil for a few times but I have gone back to Victory oil and it is the best. The bike runs and shifts better with Victory oil.?My wrench as seen lots of issues on Victory bikes using non Victory oil and several other Victory wrenches from around the country have told me the same thing. It is just not worth taking the chance. If you have an engine issue the first question Victory wants the tech to validate is who's oil is being used.
hey Spoke, you and fergy are the reasons Why i bought a vision!! hell i owned 2 now. When i saw you guys in may 2008 i was completely obsessed with your bikes! then 5-6 weeks later i owned one. (the other color for that year). after i bought that 08 vision my kawasaki group i belonged too told me they knew they were loosing a kawasaki rider that day i saw you guys... =) |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-07 10:23 PM Spock - 2012-05-07 9:52 PM Chris is correct if you are going to use Ams Oil you need to go with the 10-40 not the 20-50. I will tell you that I used the 20-50 once and had some clutch slippage and then switched to the 10-40 and it was fine. I also used the Shell Rotella oil for a few times but I have gone back to Victory oil and it is the best. The bike runs and shifts better with Victory oil.?My wrench as seen lots of issues on Victory bikes using non Victory oil and several other Victory wrenches from around the country have told me the same thing. It is just not worth taking the chance. If you have an engine issue the first question Victory wants the tech to validate is who's oil is being used. hey Spoke, you and fergy are the reasons Why i bought a vision!! hell i owned 2 now. When i saw you guys in may 2008 i was completely obsessed with your bikes! then 5-6 weeks later i owned one. (the other color for that year). after i bought that 08 vision my kawasaki group i belonged too told me they knew they were loosing a kawasaki rider that day i saw you guys... =)Yup, I remember that great time at Maggie Valley. I hope to ride with you again soon Chris. The Vision is by far the best bike I have ever owned or ridden. In fact the Vision is the best purchae of anything I have bought in my lifetime!!! If I could find a way to make as much money riding my Vision as I can make in my business I would be in heaven! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Good to see you piping in Spock.... There's a whole lot of factors in doing anything automotive. AMSOIL is good for the applictions, I've used in my vehicles from time to time, and went with it in my bike. But in reality, full synthetic is full synthetic. I found in the earlier days the bike was a little quieter using full synthetic, why, I don't know, but it was. The engine is well broken in now and I can't tell the difference now using MaVic oil and I'm about 3,000 miles in on a change. I've put my Vision to "my test" and find that it is me proof. So when I feel a little slippage using a full-syn oil and I don't with the blend, I step back and recall all the claims that I've made and all the rebuttals "it's slipping and you don't know it." and think what do I want to prove. Full synthetic is great in 99% of the applications in which it is used, but I'll have to assess they have a hard time with the wet-clutch applications, and I understand why. While a good portion of folks will never ever know the difference and no major harm will come to their machine, I feel that I'm doing right by me and my Vision by using the proper and recommended blend. If any one wants to a use a Jaso-M rated synthetic in their Vision, by all means, please do so, it won't blow up. I'm not warning any one not too. I've shared my experience for the benefit of others and don't regret using a fully synthetic because it has given me a conclusion of what is best for my bike and any other one I will own in the future. Does Indian have their own label oil????? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | varyder - 2012-05-08 5:01 AM
Does Indian have their own label oil?????
Of course. It's called "Slippery Running Deer" and is a special blend of dino and syn with some secret medicine man herbs added. I've heard it cost much wampum and many squaw.
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-05-08 10:50 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Hi Varyder, good to hear from you as well. I hope we can sync up sometime and ride together. Next time you are going on a trip anywhere within a few states of Texas let me know.  I agree with your statements. The biggest reason I went back to Victory oil was seeing through my dealer how important it is to Victory on some warranty claims. |
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Help!! Clutch Slippage after Amsoil 20-50