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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | I recently installed Lloyds VM-1 cams and now have a pretty rough vibration in the bike from about 3K up. Up until 3K it is real smooth. The bike idles smooth and revs smooth until 3k no matter how hard you pull the throttle. Once at 3K the vibration picks up and just gets really bad between 5000 - 6400 RPM's. I have tried contacting Lloyd for several weeks now and have not received any responses or returned calls from him. I figured I would see if anyone here had this issue as well.
This weekend I went back through the entire install all over again, just because I doubted myself about the timing. Timing is spot on. All bolts were still torqued to specs. Everything looked great. I then took apart the exhasut and replaced the manifold gastkets because I hear what sounds like an exhaust leak. Sealed all of the joints with hi-temp silicone and put the bike back together. Let's just say this was a completed waste of time. Nothing was solved except peace of mind that I did the install properly in the first place. Exhaust leak noise is still there, however, there is no blowby at any joints. I have checked and double checked. I guess this is just the sound these bikes make.
That is why I am trying to find out if the vibration is the same issue. Is this just inherent in this bike? I really did not ride it to long or hard before switching out the cams. It may be more of a CRS issue with me than a problem with the bike. Again, I just want peace of mind knowing that the bike is not going to blow up on me. For anyone who rides dirt bikes, the vibration is very similar to my KTM 250 2 stroke. The only other street bike I own is a new v-Rod with no vibrations all the way to 10K RPM's. I know the engines are supposed to be similar in nature, so that is where my concern is coming from. Unfortunately, I do not have access to another Vision with cams to compare.
Edited by wrk24wheel 2012-04-09 9:00 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | I am going to take it from the lack of responses, that no one else has any engine vibration above 3k RPM's. Any ideas where I should start looking for problems causing this vibration? Possible bad valve? I am kind of at a loss here where to look for the root cause of this vibration. Any help would be appreciated. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 132
Durango, Colorado | Did you follow the cam break in procedure on first fire-up? I had the Lloyds cams installed by KevinX and mine is V-twin smooth. Not familiar with the v-rod but my Honda Shadow was smoother than the Vision under hard accelleration. Look, V-twin motors vibrate (with the exception of the v-rod apparently). The question is whether the vibration is excessive. Very difficult to determine from somone elses described perception. Kevin had each of us at the cam party hold the RPM's @2200 for 15min. (neutral) after the first fire up to harden the cam lobes for break-in. I would suggest letting a mechanic listen to it and give his opinion on your vibration. best of luck with it, you'll love the cams once all is good. paulhu
Edited by paulhu 2012-04-14 12:56 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
W'ford Tx | Can you give any more details? This may sound funny but if you ramp it up in NEUTRAL do you still get the wobble after 3k? Does it feel like the handle bars are getting away from you or more so is it felt in the rear?
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 32
East Haven, CT | My stock 2011 vision has what I consider uncomfortable vibration above 3k. I have 2500 miles on it and was hoping it would get better as it breaks in. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 44
Middleburg, Fl. | My 2011 has noticeable vibes over 3k but I don't do much steady cruising over 3k. I notice it when accelerating though.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | Get it in Neutral as well. I do feel it throughout the bike. More in the front end then the rear, but it is definitely coming from the engine. I think I will try loosening and re-torqueing the engine mounts and see if that helps at all. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | I am wondering about a couple of things. Does anyone know if there is anything peculiar about California bikes that may be relevant here? Are you running a Power Commander base map to compliment cams and the particulars of your bike? What kind of mileage are you getting? Do you have abnormal amount of black soot at the exhaust? Have you checked plugs? Are they super clean or really dark ? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | wroman - 2012-04-14 7:47 PM
I am wondering about a couple of things. Does anyone know if there is anything peculiar about California bikes that may be relevant here? Are you running a Power Commander base map to compliment cams and the particulars of your bike? What kind of mileage are you getting? Do you have abnormal amount of black soot at the exhaust? Have you checked plugs? Are they super clean or really dark ?
I am running Lloyds base map for my power commander. However, I am starting with the S1L2 50 State Victory Map. So in California, this might be equivalent to other states base map. I am getting just under 40 mpg and I am on the throttle most of the time. Not sure about an abnormal amount of soot, but my end pipes get a light black dusting after a couple hundred miles. I clean them after every ride so I am not sure just how long it would take to get really sooty. As for my plugs, they are a white tan. Hope that helps.. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Sounds you covered the bases. Do you have the Lloyds idle air valve? Do you get popping through the exhaust? One other point that that Lloyds and I talked about that seems important is the correct spark gap. The ignition transitions from a multi spark discharge (below 3,000 rpm) to single spark above 3,000 rpm. The spark plugs should be gapped at .9 mm exactly. On my bike if gapped over that vibes will be greater above 3,000 and part throttle performance will suffer around the same rpm. The bike seems to run a little stronger below 3,000 though with a slightly larger gap.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | I do not have Lloyds idle air valve, however, I only get popping through the exhaust on shifting if I don't release the throttle first. I believe this is a PC issue. As for spark gap, it is set at .034 right in the middle of the gap range of .8 - .9 mm. So the bike runs better with the wider gap? This must mean you change or check your plug gab often if you are at the far end of the range. I will pull the plugs today and try re-gapping them to .9 mm. I will give anything a try once..... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
W'ford Tx | Aside from the vibration how's the power band? Any kind of noise? The only guess I could make is something on the reinstall got a tad bit crooked and is what's causing your vibration. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | goat813 - 2012-04-15 10:26 AM
Aside from the vibration how's the power band? Any kind of noise? The only guess I could make is something on the reinstall got a tad bit crooked and is what's causing your vibration.
Power band is awesome. It just continues to pull to 6400 RPM's. The only noise is a ticking from the front of the engine. Sounds like an exhaust leak, but I replaced the gaskets and it is still there. I would say it is probably normal and that I just did not notice it before. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
W'ford Tx | Hmmm..... I toyed with the idea that you might have some slight valve contact but I don't think that's it.....It happening in neutral kills the idea of any kind of belt slippage issues. Honestly with the issues it almost sounds like you're getting some kind of cam wobble but I really couldn't see this being possible. When you went though it again how the the lobes and bearings look? FYI I'm just a diesel mechanic so have experience with engines but not of the MC kind and I've never dove into a victory engine. Not trying to knock anyone at all just trying to give directions on maybe where to look. Everything I've heard about Lloydz has been great but I know mistakes happen. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
W'ford Tx | Hmmm..... I toyed with the idea that you might have some slight valve contact but I don't think that's it.....It happening in neutral kills the idea of any kind of belt slippage issues. Honestly with the issues it almost sounds like you're getting some kind of cam wobble but I really couldn't see this being possible. When you went though it again how the the lobes and bearings look? FYI I'm just a diesel mechanic so have experience with engines but not of the MC kind or really the gasoline kind and I've never dove into a victory engine. Not trying to knock anyone at all just trying to give directions on maybe where to look. Everything I've heard about Lloydz has been great but I know mistakes happen. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | My bike ran rougher if plugs were gaped 'above .9 MM'. I believe the popping is related to the lean mixture Lloyds IAC will help correct. I do not think this explains the roughness. If you were not making power the bike would be smooth as hell. Is it rough even at smaller throttle openings or is it related to engine load? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | wroman - 2012-04-15 8:59 PM
My bike ran rougher if plugs were gaped 'above .9 MM'. I believe the popping is related to the lean mixture Lloyds IAC will help correct. I do not think this explains the roughness. If you were not making power the bike would be smooth as hell. Is it rough even at smaller throttle openings or is it related to engine load?
It gets rougher with engine load. The more load, the rougher it is. Climbing hills with a passenger is about as rough as it gets. If I am on a straight away and ease into it, the bike does not vibrate nearly as much as under a serious load. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | has ignition been checked? FULL spark to both plugs? i only ask cause i had something like this happen to one of my other bikes. for me it was Not mechnically. it was with the ignition. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| First of all, the cam'd bikes WILL make more noise through the top filter than the stock cams do. That's just the tradeoff you get for the increased lift/duration. That could be what you think is a "leak".
As for vibration, they are rigid mounted v-twin motors, they will vibrate, especially under load. Again, just the nature of the beast. A higher compression motor will vibrate more than a lower compression motor... mostly from the increased power pulses.
Granted, this is sight unseen, but I think what you are experiencing is pretty normal actually. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | It sounds like you have covered all bases. I suspect if there is anything that can be done it could be found within the 'TUNE' of the PC. I know Lloyd has a reworked ECM that allows higher RPM but it also has minor timing changes. Adding (advancing) timing usually smoothes out an engine at the expense of a threat of pinging. going a few tenths richer at part throttle acceleration can also do the same. Finding a VIC person to set the PC would be helpfull but you need to let them know that the goal is to smooth out the engine. I do not know if there is a support group of individuals to help you through the process of turning off the auto tune process and tailoring the map to achieve a smoother engine. I mention again timing because I think it could be important here and I do not know if possibly the CA bikes are set up with different timing than 49 state bikes, even so the PC does not self adjust timing to suit and believe me advancing timing a few degrees cam make an engine smoother. |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | This is my experience with my stock 08 VV with 50K on the clock. My VV always had a noticeable increase in vibration above 3K when accelerating from a lower RPM starting point, but always smootyed back out once I reached a steady RPM agian and depending on how dramatic the change in RPM the smooth out time seems to take a few hundred feet longer. What you must consider is that on acceleration with a Vic engine is that you're accelerating a pistion > 3 inches and the mass combined with the large amount of force needed required to overcome the moument of inertia along with the same thing affecting tha crankshaft counter balancers you will experience some transitional increase if vibration until you stabilize the RPM again. Now if you add to that the addedpower of the cams and the accompanying results/changes in everything else and viola noticably
more vibration. Also 3K is where the VV engine really starts making power. My suggestion is take the bike out and in stages starting at 2500 RPM increase RPM by 500 hold for 1/8 mi. Before increasing again and tune in to whether the vibration changes or not.
more HP, noticeably greater vbration add on top of the aforeme |
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Vibration from engine over 3k RPM's