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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | I just picked up a used 2008 Vision Tour Premium this weekend. My other bike is a v-rod. The v-rod is the only street bike I have ever ridden and have only owned it for a little less than a year now. It was to uncomfortable for two up, so I purchased this for my wife.
I need to find out if my biggest issue with this bike is a problem with me or the bike. The steering seems VERY loose. The slightest movement of the bars and the bike goes there, completely unforgiving. My v-rod on the other hand take all the strength you can muscle up to get it to turn. Always wants to go straight. But as for stability, I can move around the bike, ride no handed, etc. and I know the bike won't move from where it is pointed. Not so on the Vision. Going down the road, I feel like I am constantly correcting the front end (wobble) like an old car with a lot of play in the steering wheel. I have a very difficult time controlling this bike at very low speed through a parking lot or slowing down at a light.
I have only racked about five hours on this bike now and it does not seem to be getting any better. The front end also does not sound good when I hit those little white bumps in the road. It almost sounds like a hallow thump. I have checked the tire pressure and the tread on the E3 tires is still good. I did hear that the old owner trailered this bike everywhere. I have only visually checked out the forks and they were very dirty, but the seals don't look cracked. I wonder if the steering bearings could be loose or the forks low on oil. Could either of these cause this loose feeling?
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Tourer
Posts: 374
Tucson, AZ | I would guess one or both of the shocks are low on fluid. If you see dirt on the shock, I would bet that is it. I have been going through similar problems with my left fork seals going bad and it rides as you describe. New seals with correct fluid levels and all is well. I know it really mad the front tire wear uneven, so much that after doing both seals and fluids, it still did not feel right, added a new front tire and night and day difference.
mike |
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Cruiser
Posts: 51
Edmonton AB, Canada | My 2010 Vision is very stable at road speeds, but handles and turns in easily for its weight. Yeah, parking lot speeds take some practice! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | I won't offer suggestions on what may be wrong, and I really recommend you don't accept any. You have an older, used bike that may or may not have something wrong with it. Nobody can diagnose the problem over the internet using only the description of a person who has no Vision experience.
I suggest you finish filling in your heading information so others no where you are. Then someone who has a Vision could contact you and offer to give your bike a ride and then offer an informative opinion. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | There should be a substantial difference in the handling characteristics between your vision and your vrod. Just looking at the specs will tell you that. The vrod has a 1.3" longer wheelbase and 5 degrees more rake (34 degrees) than the Vision. This would indicate a tendency to want to run in a straight line. Add the extra wide rear tire and changing direction on a vrod should require a fair bit of effort.
The Vision on the other hand is a very stable, but very different machine. Many new owners find the vision to be overly sensitive to steering input. There are a number of threads that address the issue, most owners adapt to the Vision by loosening up their grip a little and relaxing; this reduces rider input and lets the bike "have its head" ,so to speak, improving the feeling of stability at speed.
Parking lot maneuvering with a bike that weights close to 900 lbs with fuel is a learning experience. Like anything else it takes practice. It helps to keep the revs up a little and ride the rear brake. Confidence comes with time and practice; you also have the added benefit of the tip over protectors to inspire confidence. Find a vacant parking lot and work on low speed maneuvering.
Keep in mind that your center of gravity is going to be effected by load. Make sure to evenly distribute your heaviest gear in both saddle bags and keep the tour pack light, this will improve your stability by keeping your center of gravity low.
I would also make sure that the air in the rear shock is set properly. Improperly set rear shocks will effect the handling fairly dramatically. If you don't have one, get a quality air gauge and a hand pump. Do not use compressed air to fill the shocks.
Your "thump" may be a mechanical issue, it may also just be the sound of tires hitting the bumps being amplified by plastic bodywork, something that you don't hear on a naked bike. It could also be the trunk lid bouncing slightly, if it has not been retrofitted with the rubber bumpers or one of the other fixes for 2008s.
With a used bike its probably a good idea to have a dealer check the steering hear bearings, depending on the mileage they may be due for a lube and adjustment. The rear wheel alignment could also be off slightly. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Before you second guess what is happening, a trip to the dealer to make sure the steering nuts and bearings are servicable and properly torqued. While things like tire pressure or fluid in the forks may cause handling issues, what you describe could originate in the steering bearing and torque of the nut. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Jack that bike up; grab the front forks and see if they wobble. That'll tell ya for sure.... my vote is the stem nut as well... or the head bearings are trashed. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| I agree that since the bike is a used purchase it wouldn't be a bad idea to take it to a reputable dealer and have them check it over and make sure there aren't any hidden problems. Having said that I am sure that what you are going to find over time is that you're the variable and not the bike. Since your experience is so limited and only to a VRod which is one of the most difficult bikes to turn, I think it is just a matter of time before you adjust to what a reasonably handling bike is supposed to feel like. The Vision turns amazingly well for such a big bike and some of that easy turn-in at speed can translate to sensitivity at slower speeds like coming to a stop or crawling around a parking lot. You will adapt to it. It just takes time and patience. Once you've become proficient on the Vision and take a ride on a VRod again you'll be wondering how the hell you got it turned :-) As mentioned above, try to relax on the bike and particularly your grip. Those big long bars give you lots of leverage so over-correcting can easily happen. Another thing that works is to keep your view down the road instead of directly in front of you. You have a tendency to go where you look so if you're nervous and keep looking right in front of you then over-correcting will result. Just be patient, it will come and you'll love it. Ask any of us :-))
Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 74
Republic of Texas | You're supposed to STEER a Vision? ????
I thought the anti-tip bars were there so we could see how close it will get to the pavement before I chicken out<G>.
Seriously, after riding a Wing, I thought my Vision must have internal gyros because it feels glued to the road.
Now, if you have fork/shock/tire problems -- I cannot say.
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Sounds like this is related to some of the early posts relating to WIND and PASSING TRUCKS etc. It all relates to easing up and not fighting the bike. A lot of folks had a problem with this - and when they relaxed, the handling issues went away. For me - it was never a problem on my '08 - handles as good as a sport bike with only a 'size/weight' issue to deal with. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| donetracey - 2012-02-14 1:37 PM
Sounds like this is related to some of the early posts relating to WIND and PASSING TRUCKS etc. It all relates to easing up and not fighting the bike. A lot of folks had a problem with this - and when they relaxed, the handling issues went away. For me - it was never a problem on my '08 - handles as good as a sport bike with only a 'size/weight' issue to deal with.
Turbulence issues can't be counteracted by "relaxing more". Some of us are very experienced riders. The Vision is, simply, susceptible to turbulence because of all the body work, as would any large motorcycle with that much bodywork. With no wind, it's rock solid, but throw in hwy turbulence caused by rush hour SUV's, trucks, and 18 wheelers, and you feel it much more on a Vision than a non touring steel framed bike. The difference being, than on the Vision, it's the bike that gets pushed around, on a smaller bike with no body work, it's the rider that get's the brunt of the turbulence.... totally difference feeling. Has NOTHING to do with rider skill.... However, this is unrelated to the OP's post.
I think he needs to get his bike to a dealer to have the steering stem bearings checked, along with the forks. Bad tires (just cuz they aren't worn doesn't mean they aren't bad) can also adversely effect handling as he describes.
Edited by Turk 2012-02-14 2:27 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | how many miles is on the bike. there is a recommended 15,000 mile service to be done on the front forks. (fluid replacement) also the steering bearings as well. i dont know if you got a owners manual with it or not. |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| Agree with what has been written above...Been hanging around the Vision and Victory's since 2008 and have never heard of front end issues like this guy is having....Get the thing to someone who knows what they are doing and have it checked out...My Vision is rock solid in turns and no wobble issues that I am aware of...As stated earlier, remember this bike weighs almost 900lbs. fueled and can be a little squirrlley at low speeds, but riding time and practice will give you more confidence......Personally, I have ridden a friends V-Rod and hated the thing....could'nt wait to get back on my Vision...... |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | Thanks for all of the replys. The bike has 25k miles on it and I was "told" by the dealership that it was well maintained by the original owner. He was a personal friend of the owner of the dealership. However, I am finding that I do not believe this as I do not believe the air filter was ever replaced. It looked like it had 25k miles on it. The forks were a mess with lots of oily dirt on them (hence the belief that they are leaking.) I also have the gas smell issue and a bent filler tube. I was able to bend it back and get another rubber washer to take up the additional space. This took care of the problem. I did take the bike to my dealership the same day that I bought it due to the gas smell. However, the single Victory mechanic was not in that day (this is primarily an HD dealership that also sells a few Victory bikes.) The mechanic that I spoke to said that he did not have enough experience with the bike to know what might be causing it. However, he was the one that pointed out the possible leaky front shocks and found the bent filler tube. I am trying to work with the dealership that I purchased this from and am currently waiting for an answer if they plan on helping me out at all. As I did buy the bike "as is no warranty." Funny thing is that they charged me a safety fee and I don't think that they even looked over the bike as they had just taken it in the night before. I learned the hard way to never buy a used bike from a dealership that will not allow you to test ride the bike prior to purchasing it. If I had, I would have passed on this one and kept looking for another one. We all get bent one time or another, this was my time. Now, I just need to put that in the past and move on. I still think that this is one of the best looking touring bikes on the road. This weekend I will put some more hours on it and then get it to the dealership next week to have the suspension done. Whether or not it is my problem, it sounds like it still should be rebuilt. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 82
Fargo, ND | You did say that the former owner trailered his bike everywhere... My guess is that he has racheted his tie downs too tight for too long and may have ruptured the fork seals. The vision is meant to be tied down with the eyelets that come in the tipovers when it was first shipped to the dealership. If he is using the handlebars to tie it down then this is a good possibility. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 104
ROCHESTER,NY | I can't even relate to what's happening To your bike. My 2012 V can go into any curve that,I have been into on the 07 glide I traded in on it at least 25 to 30 mph faster .AND THAT'S NO BULLSHIT.The V handle's like a cafe racer. STICKS LIKE GLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RIDE HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIVE FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| You have to keep in mind the v-rod has more of rack to the front end. The vision has less rack it steers quicker |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 803
Perry Hall, MD | stretch1956 - 2012-02-14 6:03 PM
You did say that the former owner trailered his bike everywhere... My guess is that he has racheted his tie downs too tight for too long and may have ruptured the fork seals. The vision is meant to be tied down with the eyelets that come in the tipovers when it was first shipped to the dealership. If he is using the handlebars to tie it down then this is a good possibility.
Not to argue the point, but I believe that the manual recommends tying down the front end with a loop over the frame (not the body). No handlebars or tipover eyelets. The suggestion about potential damage from trailering with pressure on the forks sounds like a reasonable concern. But the greater concern is why would you trailer a Vision? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Maybe they should stick to selling HDs? Take her to another Victory dealer and tell them your story. Many good dealers will figure taking care of someone that got burned will make them a customer for life.
leenyb, I think it's page 6 of the owners manual that shows the hookup point between the front forks. I bought my 2009 in NJ and they told me it was fine strapping to the handlebars. When I got home and read the manual I haven't gone back to them. Whenever I sold stuff I always read the owners manual and watched any company supplied vids so I did not appear dumber than the customer. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
Hillsboro, Alabama | make sure you have at least 50 psi in your rear shock, more if you are loaded down with luggage, if the rear shock is to soft, the front of the bike will raise up, making it have very loose steering. |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| Normal rear shock psi for 200lb rider with trunk and no passenger/luggage is about 20psi which should be fine unless bike has some real front suspension issues...... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| 9 PSI without the trunk. 50 PSI is way too much !!!! |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | tire |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
Hillsboro, Alabama | you need at least 50 psi if your riding 2 up with luggage. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | 50 psi? That is what I run with trunk, trailer, and passenger!
When riding alone, no trailer, no trunk, I like the feel of 16~18 psi. The sticker in the saddle bag calls for less, but I find that it steers better with approximately double the recommended pressure. I have bottomed hard several times running the recommended pressure. (I am only 170 lbs.)
I have also found that air temperature effects shock pressure which effects steering. If I am in the garage at 65 deg and going to ride below 30 deg I pressurize the shock to 25 psi. When the shock gets cold the pressure decreases down to my comfortable level. For my racing bikes, I actually put them outside for 2 hours before adjusting air suspension and tires.
Any time I have used the sticker recommended pressure on the Vision, it is difficult for me to come to a smooth stop. The bike feels like it wants to fall over and I studder step at stop lights. Double the pressure and it steers great without being too stiff.
Edited by victoryvisiontour 2012-02-15 4:01 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | Follow the weight to PSI lable on the bike. I have found it to be pretty much right on the money. Maybe add a couple to 5 psi when loaded. Also you said you checked the front tire pressure, did you check the rear tire pressure? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | handyhiker - 2012-02-15 1:46 PM
Follow the weight to PSI lable on the bike. I have found it to be pretty much right on the money. Maybe add a couple to 5 psi when loaded. Also you said you checked the front tire pressure, did you check the rear tire pressure?
Tire pressure is 38 front 40 in the rear. I set the suspension for exactly what was stated on the sticker. I could try going up a few pounds and see if that works.
The dealer I bought it from contacted me today and told me that they will take replace the fork seals and get me a one year extended warranty on the bike. It is nice to see that they are willing to step up and do what is right even though I bought the bike "as is." As soon as the warranty is in place I will have the gas tank replaced as well. In the mean time, I plan on having them replace the front tire after they service the forks. Should I use the same Dunlop Elite 3 Radial tire or is there a better tracking tire for the front of the vision? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | The stock tire is good. Some folks have an issue with cupping and some don't. On the 08's, there is an updated fuel cap. Mine was covered under the warranty. Once you get it sorted out, you will love this bike. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Don't forget to have them check and service the steering bearing. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 161
Oregon. | ekirby - 2012-02-15 3:14 PM
you need at least 50 psi if your riding 2 up with luggage.
Not sure what bike your riding, 50psi is an incredible amount in that rear shock. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Ventura County, CA | Thanks for everyones help. it turned out to not be the forks or steering bearing. They were both serviced and the problems still existed. I decided today to replace the front E3 tire with a new Avon Cobra. PROBLEM SOLVED! The bike handles great now. It is like riding an entirely different bike now. I can't wait for the new E3 in the rear to start wearing down a little so I have an excuse to replace it with a Cobra as well. The tire shop told me that the front tire was heavily feathered. They said this could have been from the previous owner riding with the incorrect tire pressure. I will watch this like a hawk to make sure that these do not wear the same. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | The results disturbs me, though I'm glad you figured it out. Most of the time I look past the obvious because I assume folks do the obvious, like inspect the tires on their bikes. Going back to your original post though, what the dealer says that it was and the symptoms don't entirely line up. But I'll leave it at that and just say as a reminder, inspect your tires and check your air pressure often, if not at every time you ride. Happy Motoring! |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Brian G - 2012-02-16 8:33 PM
ekirby - 2012-02-15 3:14 PM
you need at least 50 psi if your riding 2 up with luggage.
Not sure what bike your riding, 50psi is an incredible amount in that rear shock.
actually 50 psi isnt alot at all.. according the the Chart in the saddle bag i fill mine to 60psi when riding 2 up with all my gear.. |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | @Wrk24Wheel & @Varyder
I'm not surprised at all by this finding! I put my bike through its paces a lot and found that when the tire was worn the bike began to handle much differently. At one point my tire looked like it was still good but the handling was going and quickly. It would track every little thing in the road and the bike was a beast to handle whether slow or fast.
I put new shoes on my baby and she was back to her old self.
Don't let it fool you...when the rubber starts to show wear and no longer round from side to side, it's time for new rubber!
And what VARyder said...check your rubber and pressure EVERY TIME! Two minutes of checking will save a few days in the hospital or a life time in the ground! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I guess I needed to be more clear, I know tires will make the bike run odd, but cupping and other anomolies are usually found during regular inspection by the rider. That's what is disturbing, sorry, I just want to make sure everyone stays safe, and it starts with knowing your ride. Happy Motoring!!! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Of all the bikes I've had over the years only my BMW R1100RS reacted as strongly to worn tires as the Vision does. When I get to about 10K miles it just gets hard to turn. Regardless of how much tread is left I just replace them and that light handling is back again. I figure maybe I could get to 15K but to go through an extra 5K miles of missing what I like best about this bike just isn't worth it.
Marc |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Arkainzeye - 2012-02-23 9:13 AM
Brian G - 2012-02-16 8:33 PM
ekirby - 2012-02-15 3:14 PM
you need at least 50 psi if your riding 2 up with luggage.
Not sure what bike your riding, 50psi is an incredible amount in that rear shock.
actually 50 psi isnt alot at all.. according the the Chart in the saddle bag i fill mine to 60psi when riding 2 up with all my gear..
Are the charts in your '08 and '11 different? I believe that they changed the rear shock assembly somewhat in the 11's as it's a different part #. I looked into this after discovering that my friend's '09 Vision had a much more compliant (ie. softer) ride than my 11 with the same air pressure.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 18
| Two completely different bikes. Test ride another vision and see if it feels the same. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Turk - 2012-02-24 5:39 AM
Are the charts in your '08 and '11 different? I believe that they changed the rear shock assembly somewhat in the 11's as it's a different part #. I looked into this after discovering that my friend's '09 Vision had a much more compliant (ie. softer) ride than my 11 with the same air pressure.
The rear shock specs are the same for the '11 as the earlier model. The new part# supersedes the earlier one. The only change per Vic's tech department is improved hardening of the shock shaft due to seal leaks. I noticed that my '11 rode softer than my '10 did and I figured it was the rear shock as well so I called and asked them. If you really want a sweet ride change the front springs and cartridges with those for an '11 8-Ball. Its like day and night.
Marc |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | AH! And agreed! |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 8
MA facing NH, MA United States | Agreed. The chart in the owners manual for my 13 VV listed about 50lbs.
Total Cargo (350lbs) > Trunk+rider+passenger+luggage/gear. |
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Question about the Steering and Handling