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Prairie City, IA United States | Sorry guys, this was a reply to the almost killed a biker post.
The biggest reason drivers give is that they "didn't see him" and rightfully so. Our mind is trained to see cars and trucks. Something smaller tends to look like a car that is further away making the illusion that we are safe to proceed. It is also our responsibility as riders to make ourselves visible or be defensive in our riding skills. I always plan on being invisible to cars and trucks and drive accordingly. It is always better to be alive vs. "dead right" when riding a bike.
As for loud pipes post. I call BS on that one. I have been passed by many loud bikes on the freeway and by the time I hear them, they are at best beside me. Loud pipes do not save lives. They just piss off other drivers and cause ill feelings towards motorcycles in general.
Edited by lstayner 2011-11-29 12:08 PM
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Visionary
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Central Maryland | That's your opinion about loud pipes on bikes.
My opinion is; they do save lives. I can rap aftermarket pipes behind a car, and see the drivers head pop up and look around. I can do that with a set of muffled pipes, and not get the same response from the car driver..
Been there, done that. Loud pipes work.
Helmets do not save lives. Until they are needed. Loud pipes don't save lives. Until they are needed.
Edited by willtill 2011-11-29 12:57 PM
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Ruskin, Fl | I like my louder than stock pipes but don't agree that they save lives. There may be an occasion that somebody does not see you and hears your exhaust if it's obnoxiously loud. That's what the horn button is for. I drive a fire apparatus with a very loud siren and a ridiculously loud air horn pointed FORWARD and people don't know we are behind them very often. Also there is a reason we change the siren mode when we approach an intersection. If you are being heard for a while, people tune out the sound. Same would go for riding near a cage for a couple of miles; they will no longer "hear" you. Did I mention the blinding LED lights?
You have to be on high alert for dumbass drivers and not count on your exhaust to warn them of your presence. |
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Ruskin, Fl | I like my louder than stock pipes but don't agree that they save lives. There may be an occasion that somebody does not see you and hears your exhaust if it's obnoxiously loud. That's what the horn button is for. I drive a fire apparatus with a very loud siren and a ridiculously loud air horn pointed FORWARD and people don't know we are behind them very often. Also there is a reason we change the siren mode when we approach an intersection. If you are being heard for a while, people tune out the sound. Same would go for riding near a cage for a couple of miles; they will no longer "hear" you. Did I mention the blinding LED lights?
You have to be on high alert for dumbass drivers and not count on your exhaust to warn them of your presence. |
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Pittsburgh, PA | years ago i actually had a neighbor tell me he would hear my pipes BEFORE seeing me around a blind turn entering the plan of homes i lived it at that time. so in my case loud pipes was a warning i was coming around this turn/corner they werent super loud but they were louder than stock and people hear me B4 seeing me.... at least so i was told.... |
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Prairie City, IA United States | Is it your intention to scare the driver or get his attention that he is entering your space? Startling a driver just makes them mad and then you become a target. I like a nice rumble on a bike but ear bleeders just give us all a bad name. A bad name means less respect for us on the road. Just sayin. |
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Central Maryland | Haters think loud pipes are obnoxious, because they focus on the extremely loud ones; who misbehave with them. Without a thought to responsible use of them, which is practiced on a wide scale by other bikers. Haters are totally biased....
.... Sort of like guns. A criminal uses one, and Haters feel all guns should be prohibited, even from law abiding citizens whom use them for lawful purposes... but I digressed...
Proponents know that judicious and warranted use of an aftermarket pipe; in a traffic situation will gain them additional attention, and maintenance of right of way.
Haters cry that you cannot rely solely on loud pipes for your survival on the road.
Proponents already know this; and augment their survival with good riding skills, awareness and protective equipment.
Edited by willtill 2011-11-29 6:17 PM
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Akron Ohio area | First, loud pipes are illegal in most States.
Secondly, loud pipes don't save lives.
I personally like my "stealth mode" of riding.
I don't want to wake up the traffic cop after I've gone by. |
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| I traded in my stock pipes in for a set of louder pipes, and I have noticed that I have not had as many problems with people trying to change lanes into me. If I am passing a car that is not paying attention I can always give it a little gas and then they know that I am there. There are still several ways to be taken out by a car, but I have to day that after having both I agree that loud pipes have made me feel safer. |
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Central Maryland | bigfoot - 2011-11-29 7:33 PM
First, loud pipes are illegal in most States.
Secondly, loud pipes don't save lives.
I personally like my "stealth mode" of riding.
I don't want to wake up the traffic cop after I've gone by.
But you like to speed; I take it from the way you phrased your post about the traffic cop. That's illegal too.....
Edited by willtill 2011-11-29 6:53 PM
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Central Maryland | C130Dan - 2011-11-29 7:51 PM
I traded in my stock pipes in for a set of louder pipes, and I have noticed that I have not had as many problems with people trying to change lanes into me. If I am passing a car that is not paying attention I can always give it a little gas and then they know that I am there. There are still several ways to be taken out by a car, but I have to day that after having both I agree that loud pipes have made me feel safer.
They simply work.  |
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New Bohemia, VA | loud pipes are, well, loud pipes. People will do anything to justify what they do. Bottomline, folks don't ride with loud pipes to save their life, they do because they want to be heard. Don't you dare dispute that because now you're a hater. I'd like to see some proven statistics, not a neck jerk of "what is that noise". If that be the case then motorcycle of all kinds would be at risks just because they don't have loud pipes. It's best to let well enough be, the best we can do is encourage each other to ride safe and take a motorcycle safety course. Even the tough 1%ers will recommend that good advise.
The best this thread is doing is keeping activity on Vision-Riders, other than it has been really boring around here --- everybody got other things to do or something....???? |
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Iron Butt
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, WI | My condolences - 
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| Like I always say, when someone says to you, "I didn't see you, ask them the last time they ran over a cat?" Today an animals life is more valued than a fellow human. You see it everyday in parking lots and at crosswalks.
I agree saying loud pipes don't save lives. So you bought into the Samson pipe advertising..... They had to come up with something cause their pipes suck. Everyone I have talked to with loud pipes tell me they don't hear them because they are in front of them as they ride so if they don't hear them then a car won't. Then you have the guys with loud pipes wearing ear plugs, duh.
A horn does a great job as long as you know how to use it. Even the stock horn does it's job.
The only thing loud pipes do is "Look at me, look at me. " Sorry you need the attention. |
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ROCHESTER,NY | THE REASON FOR CAGE'S NOT SEEING OR HEARING U IS. THEY ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THE TASK AT HAND.THEY ARE DDOING EVERYTHING ELSE IN THAT CAGE,EXCEPT FOR PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY ARE DOING,OR THE RULE'S OF THE ROAD. I LOVE TO RIDE,LIVE TO RIDE!!! BUT IF YOU ARE JUST OUT THERE CRUISING AROUND,AND ARREN'T ON THE DEFENSE 1000% OF THE TIME!!!! A CAGE IS GOING TO GET U. As for the loud pipe's, this is AMERICA,last time I checked. To each,his own. AND REMEMBER!!!! SAY " MERRY CHRISTMAS" AND "HAPPY NEW YEAR"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RIDE HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIVE FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIE FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Iron Butt
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New York State | willtill - 2011-11-29 6:52 PM
bigfoot - 2011-11-29 7:33 PM
First, loud pipes are illegal in most States.
Secondly, loud pipes don't save lives.
I personally like my "stealth mode" of riding.
I don't want to wake up the traffic cop after I've gone by.
But you like to speed; I take it from the way you phrased your post about the traffic cop. That's illegal too.....
Loud pipes are like wearing a sign that says pull me over look through my pockets and write tickets or better yet arrest me.
If I am in the wrong place I do not need my bike waving its arms and jumping up and down shouting look at me .
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Central Maryland | Trekwolf164 - 2011-11-30 8:06 AM
willtill - 2011-11-29 6:52 PM
bigfoot - 2011-11-29 7:33 PM
First, loud pipes are illegal in most States.
Secondly, loud pipes don't save lives.
I personally like my "stealth mode" of riding.
I don't want to wake up the traffic cop after I've gone by.
But you like to speed; I take it from the way you phrased your post about the traffic cop. That's illegal too.....
Loud pipes are like wearing a sign that says pull me over look through my pockets and write tickets or better yet arrest me.
If I am in the wrong place I do not need my bike waving its arms and jumping up and down shouting look at me .
That's funny. I run loud pipes on all my bikes; soon as well on my Vision (when I get the Thrush glasspacks). I have yet to be pulled over as a result of them. And I have been riding for MANY years. Maybe it's because I use them prudently; which is what I have been trying to advocate here?
I bought into the concept that pronounced pipes over stock; help alert the car traffic around you; because it does. I live it and see it every day when I ride with aftermarket pipes. They simply work and the haters just can't grasp that concept and get their brain around that. Seriously comical.... 
Haters still gonna hate.... can't see past their already preformed; biased and ill informed opinions of a bike with a aftermarket exhaust.
Edited by willtill 2011-11-30 9:16 AM
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Iron Butt
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New York State | willtill - 2011-11-30 9:13 AM
Trekwolf164 - 2011-11-30 8:06 AM
willtill - 2011-11-29 6:52 PM
bigfoot - 2011-11-29 7:33 PM
First, loud pipes are illegal in most States.
Secondly, loud pipes don't save lives.
I personally like my "stealth mode" of riding.
I don't want to wake up the traffic cop after I've gone by.
But you like to speed; I take it from the way you phrased your post about the traffic cop. That's illegal too.....
Loud pipes are like wearing a sign that says pull me over look through my pockets and write tickets or better yet arrest me.
If I am in the wrong place I do not need my bike waving its arms and jumping up and down shouting look at me .
That's funny. I run loud pipes on all my bikes; soon as well on my Vision (when I get the Thrush glasspacks). I have yet to be pulled over as a result of them. And I have been riding for MANY years. Maybe it's because I use them prudently; which is what I have been trying to advocate here?
I bought into the concept that pronounced pipes over stock; help alert the car traffic around you; because it does. I live it and see it every day when I ride with aftermarket pipes. They simply work and the haters just can't grasp that concept and get their brain around that. Seriously comical....
Haters still gonna hate.... can't see past their already preformed; biased and ill informed opinions of a bike with a aftermarket exhaust.
The reason you may not get ticketed is your location.
If you ride down the streets of the NY area and are setting off car alarms you will meet the cops.
If your up in the twistys not so much. |
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Akron Ohio area | willtill - 2011-11-29 7:52 PM bigfoot - 2011-11-29 7:33 PM First, loud pipes are illegal in most States. Secondly, loud pipes don't save lives. I personally like my "stealth mode" of riding. I don't want to wake up the traffic cop after I've gone by. But you like to speed; I take it from the way you phrased your post about the traffic cop. That's illegal too..... Yep, but my speeding doesn't wake up the babies in their cribs. |
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Ruskin, Fl | OK, there is loud and than there is stupid loud. I like loud. I don't have Ness Big Honkers (which are kinda mild in my opinion) for cars to hear me, it's because I like it. There are people I choose not to ride with on a long trip because I need earplugs. If I want ringing in my ears I'll got the range without my muffs! |
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New Mexico | Come on, folks! By saying loud pipes don't save lives you are showing your ignorance, and lose credibility with the discussion. There is absolutely no doubt loud pipes save lives. In the 100+ years of motorcycling can you honestly sit there and say loud pipes have not saved anyone's life!?! That is ridiculous. A statistical impossibility.
On the flip side, I couldn't say with certainty loud pipes hasn't cost someone there life, but I would guess that percentage is extremely low, and well worth the risk compared to the benefit.
The question is does this Safety Device justify the negative press, waking babies, pissed off drivers, etc? For me, the answer is yes, this is a Safety Device I KNOW works. Have seen it get the attention of distracted cages literally hundreds of times.
I know personally the modulating headlights some bikers use annoys me, but is a safety device they choose to use. Their choice.
Horns generally suck, and require you to reposition your hand in an emergency situation. Some choose to use their horn, I don't. Their choice.
Lastly, I will say I try to be a courteous neighbor, keeping the rpms low & using slow, easy acceleration in residential neighborhoods, late-night, around small children, etc. But when I need it, is good to know it's available.
Edited by Boots 2011-11-30 10:48 AM
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seattle, wa | If loud pipes saved lives, then school buses would have them. |
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seattle, wa | If loud pipes saved lives, then school buses would have them. |
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New Bohemia, VA | never a clear winner here - statistically, does taking a motorcycle safety course save more lives than loud pipes? Do all people live that wear all the gear all the time when they are involved in an accident? Do modulating headlights save lives in every circumstance? In the 100+ years of motorcycling, stupidity has taken more lives than anything else, can I prove it? I don't have the statistic, but in hearing comments and reading many articles on motorcycle crashes I've come to the conclusion the majority were mistakes made on the riders part that caused the wreck and usually a fatality. Too fast for conditions, under the influence, distracted, fail to yield and so on. But, let one cager be putting on their makeup and crash into a motorcycle, that gets all the attention and all of the blame for all accidents, or so it seems. Though that should be dealt with harshly, how do we handle the rest?
I just hope that compensations for safety is taken in the proper context by all riders so all of us can live to ride another day. |
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| varyder - 2011-11-30 11:33 AM
never a clear winner here - statistically, does taking a motorcycle safety course save more lives than loud pipes? Do all people live that wear all the gear all the time when they are involved in an accident? Do modulating headlights save lives in every circumstance? In the 100+ years of motorcycling, stupidity has taken more lives than anything else, can I prove it? I don't have the statistic, but in hearing comments and reading many articles on motorcycle crashes I've come to the conclusion the majority were mistakes made on the riders part that caused the wreck and usually a fatality. Too fast for conditions, under the influence, distracted, fail to yield and so on. But, let one cager be putting on their makeup and crash into a motorcycle, that gets all the attention and all of the blame for all accidents, or so it seems. Though that should be dealt with harshly, how do we handle the rest?
I just hope that compensations for safety is taken in the proper context by all riders so all of us can live to ride another day.
Stupidity? Gee thanks Chris, I feel bad enough already.
Edited by sgiacci 2011-11-30 12:44 PM
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New Bohemia, VA | Sorry, not meant in that context for all situations. Should I apologize, I'm not sure, because if I go down I know the first thought will be "why were you being so stupid?" But the bottomline is that many if not most of the accidents I read is single vehicle citing speed and conditions. I drive down one road that has a personal memorial for a biker that lost his life. What was he doing - 100+ on a slight blind curve in a 35 mph zone and hit a mulch truck that just pulled out of the business just on the other side of the blind spot. Too many things on that road signals there are hidden dangers everywhere, yet he found the need to do what he did dispite the risk and paid for it. A loud pipe did nothing to save him. He was a ATGATT guy, and everyone had grand things to say about him, by at 20 years old or so, he lacked major judgement in that situation. So sorry. We learn everyday.
Varrrrroooom Varrrrrroooooooom bapppp bappppp potato potato potato..... I may have just saved my life...
Edited by varyder 2011-11-30 2:28 PM
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New Mexico | That's ==== "Sweet Potato - Sweet Potato - Sweet Potato" === on a Victory :-)
I do agree if you made a list of the efficiency of safety equipment/knowledge, Rider Safety courses would be at the top, whereas loud pipes would be down towards the lower end of the scale.
Rider Safety course, experience, properly maintained equipment, reflective clothing, proper rest, all more important IMHO.
But loud pipes do have their place on the list.
Edited by Boots 2011-11-30 3:58 PM
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Cary, NC | I don't have loud pipes and don't want them. I like being able to hear now and hope to be able to hear the things around me in the future. I am a firm believer in having a very loud horn. This seems to work well and if it doesn't I always have my wife there to really give them hell when they try to invade our space. |
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Cary, NC | I don't have loud pipes and don't want them. I like being able to hear now and hope to be able to hear the things around me in the future. I am a firm believer in having a very loud horn. This seems to work well and if it doesn't I always have my wife there to really give them hell when they try to invade our space. |
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Cary, NC | Sorry about the double post. Seems to be a problem with the posting. |
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New Bohemia, VA | okay - the rule is, if you make a double post, one of them becomes a joke post, and your case, two of them. in case you didn't know, you can edit them up to 15 minutes or 5 minutes or some length of time after the orginal posting. |
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Iron Butt
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New York State |
:laugh:
Edited by Trekwolf164 2011-11-30 6:10 PM
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Tourer
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| The safest motorcycle is one that is not being ridden. But that is not what motorcycles are made for........that sounds familiar .....If loud pipes make you feel safer then have them , if day glow riding clothing makes you feel safer then wear it. There is no single thing that will keep a distracted driver from running you down. I do not like loud pipes overpowering my loud music......so I do not have them.....like the sound though. I ride like I am invisible and so far that works for me.. |
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Mount Vernon, WA United States | Any time this conversation comes up I'm always amazed at how "loud" translates to "Deafening" and "stock" translates to "sewing machine". I never thought of bikers at black and white. I'm not, but it seems on this topic, no one sees grey.
Anyone who thinks "hearing" a bike is safer than not hearing a bike... well... I don't know what to think about that. Ever step out in front of a Prius ??? I have.. Actually it was in back of one. In the parking lot, I walked around my car, right across the back of a Prius that was backing up. Didn't HEAR IT !!!! Lisa and I used to ride a lot together. I can't tell you how many times I saw people on busy highways attempt to merge into her and get startled when they SAW her next to them instead of "hearing" something and not going there. She rides a SilverWing and it doesn't make any noise.. For myself.. when I'm in a car... I have certainly HEARD bikes, trucks, other cars, etc.. before I saw them in my side mirror.
When I think of loud in the concept of being heard... I'm just thinking louder than a sewing machine. The stage-1 pipes on my old V92C were fine. Just a bit louder than stock, not obnoxious, and I was heard. No one ever stepped out in front of me, no one ever tried to turn into me. They knew I was there. I don't understand the gufuffle... it's common sense 101. If you can hear something you likely will see it. Those of you that say "I drive by bikes and I don't hear'em until their next to me...." Get your ears examined... or... maybe you're in a Jag or Merc which are really quiet. I can HEAR most bikes by time they are in my dead spot off the rear corner. I usually HEAR them, then look around in the mirrors to see what I'm hearing.
As far as safety... on a bike... nothing beats experience. I have taken the MSF course more than once and had a good friend when I lived back east that was an instructor and used to give me tips and tricks as they came up. Being visible is the next important thing.
And back to noise... I've heard people brraaap their pipes to get a cars attention. Really?? Would you do that in your car too? I don't think a bike needs to really be much louder than a car.... A car just by size, 4 tires, and the air it's pushing makes more noise than most stock bikes.
And finally... another note on sound (excuse the pun) there is a reason that folks like Nissan and others have integrated SOUND into electric cars because they are too quiet. http://www.theworld.org/2011/06/adding-noise-to-electric-cars/ This is also being done on electric motorcycles in Europe. So if it's possible for a vehicle to be too quiet, then it stands to reason that some noise, not excessive should exist.
I know there are those that disagree.. Your opinion, is your opinion. As for me... when I'm on a bike I do everything I can to ensure I'm seen and heard within reason, and I still assume that everyone around me is driving blind and deaf.... and that last bit is probably the most important for anyone. Assume that you can't be seen or heard. |
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Iron Butt
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Northeast Ohio | rwilly - 2011-11-30 12:31 PM
If loud pipes saved lives, then school buses would have them.
They are also the size of a 1200 sq/ft ranch home, are painted yellow and are 40x larger than a motorcycle. Not sure where you live, but the school buses by me are also louder than most motorcycles without mufflers! My daughter hears it coming from two blocks away before heading out the door every morning. |
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seattle, wa | ScoreBo - 2011-12-01 9:19 AM
rwilly - 2011-11-30 12:31 PM
If loud pipes saved lives, then school buses would have them.
They are also the size of a 1200 sq/ft ranch home, are painted yellow and are 40x larger than a motorcycle. Not sure where you live, but the school buses by me are also louder than most motorcycles without mufflers! My daughter hears it coming from two blocks away before heading out the door every morning.
And I bet the drivers could tell you alot of stories about people that didn't see them.
As a truck driver for 20 years, I have seen alot of crazy things. |
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Prairie City, IA United States | Wow guys, a mistaken post has gone viral! LOL. I enjoy the fact that we can have a debate about motorcycle safety from pipes to clothing to whatever makes us feel safe.
I am one of those HiViz riders and I still treat myself as being invisible. The 2011 vision has plenty of sound in the pipes for me. |
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Not Guilty